Web Serials: It remains to be seen how important Evanescence will be

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Web Serials: It remains to be seen how important Evanescence will be

«‹›434 »

Kaja Rainbow: Oct 17, 2012; ~Adorable horror~

I'm currently reading a story heavily featuring a bog, though it's not an isekai.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 03:13

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 01:18

avoraciopoctules: Oct 22, 2012; What is this kid's DEAL?!

Time to Orbit: Unknown Chapter 91: Duress

I'm really enjoying this. Strong character voices, even when a character is being a huge problem it makes sense why they are doing what they are doing. Good window into Adin and Sands, the tension and drama of the current situation is much more engaging than I was expecting. I'm tempted to try the author's previous story in spite of it being a magic school, just because I'm digging their writing.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 03:17

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

The reason I'm so mad about evil classes in Bog Standard is because it's an indication that a story I've been otherwise enjoying might not be very good. These classes are something that have been given a huge amount of emphasis in the story so far, but instead of being a well fleshed out part of the setting that can drive interesting narratives, it's the shallowest possible execution of it. Worse, it tells us that the author's own moral framework is too shallow to tell any interesting stories about morality.

I posted a while back that I was worried I was assuming the story was more clever than it actually is, and I was right to be concerned. I no longer have faith that the author has anything clever in store for us. The fact that (Patreon spoilers that I have been spoiled on, I guess?) Brin immediately drops the class isn't a good twist at all, because it's entirely unsurprising that an author who has no interest in fleshing out a major concept would want that concept to be a central part of that story. Going forward, I will only be able to take everything at face value, because we have been shown that the author is uninterested in depth.

Perhaps it was unfair of me to expect so much from this. It's still a fun, enjoyable read, which is pretty much what I'm after in serial fiction. I just need to dial my expectations back from "a piece that explores how people who are incentivized to do harmful things slowly turn into monsters, step by justifiable step" to "a fun LitRPG with a quirky System and alright character writing".

# ? Aug 26, 2023 03:50

Einander: Sep 14, 2008; "Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

blastron posted:

The reason I'm so mad about evil classes in Bog Standard is because it's an indication that a story I've been otherwise enjoying might not be very good. These classes are something that have been given a huge amount of emphasis in the story so far, but instead of being a well fleshed out part of the setting that can drive interesting narratives, it's the shallowest possible execution of it. Worse, it tells us that the author's own moral framework is too shallow to tell any interesting stories about morality.

I posted a while back that I was worried I was assuming the story was more clever than it actually is, and I was right to be concerned. I no longer have faith that the author has anything clever in store for us. The fact that (Patreon spoilers that I have been spoiled on, I guess?) Brin immediately drops the class isn't a good twist at all, because it's entirely unsurprising that an author who has no interest in fleshing out a major concept would want that concept to be a central part of that story. Going forward, I will only be able to take everything at face value, because we have been shown that the author is uninterested in depth.

Perhaps it was unfair of me to expect so much from this. It's still a fun, enjoyable read, which is pretty much what I'm after in serial fiction. I just need to dial my expectations back from "a piece that explores how people who are incentivized to do harmful things slowly turn into monsters, step by justifiable step" to "a fun LitRPG with a quirky System and alright character writing".

I feel like the thing you're missing is that "a piece that explores how people who are incentivized to do harmful things slowly turn into monsters, step by justifiable step" definitely is what Scarred One represents, but it's not saying "this is what you're becoming," it's saying "this is what you have already become."

Tagging's been a mess for this but I'm throwing all the rest in spoilers. Better late than never. This covers only RR stuff except the big "Brin changes out of Scarred One" spoiler, up until I specifically mention I'm about to tag a Patreon thing.

As the Scarred One representative said, "I'm the Class you earned." Taking the injuries and dealing with the pain, becoming angrier and moodier, scarred and ugly on the inside but that doesn't matter so long as you're strong--that's exactly what he's been doing every since he came into town! Scarred One isn't a drug that's baiting Brin onto a destructive path, because he's already been on that destructive path for months! Scarred One is the path he's chosen. It's him if he keeps going the way he's been, with or without a class.

Like, when at the start of Part 3, Brin said "That�s why I�m always trying to get achievements all day every day. I don�t know how to do anything else. I don�t have anyone" and Hogg said "If I had a child, a real one, I would never treat him the way I�ve treated you," the takeaway from their big heart-to-heart isn't supposed to be "Hogg messed up on the Tawra thing but everything else is fine." It's saying everything Brin and Hogg have been doing since they came to town was wrong. Brin shouldn't have spent all of his time isolated and grinding achievements, Hogg shouldn't have kept his distance and treated Brin as both a child and an adult, Hogg shouldn't have been so inert on the Tawra thing. This is a LitRPG, but the author's still saying, hey, maybe being in a LitRPG story doesn't mean you should ignore everything else in your life to get big numbers, because in the end you still have to live that life. You know how Scarred One, as a rare class, gets more stat points per level than the conventional classes? The reason that's part of the giant metaphor that is Scarred One is that the story is saying the points weren't worth it! None of what Brin's been doing has been worth it!

So of course he throws away the class the moment he has the option, because this is how he displays that he's learned the lesson! He's seen the power of the path he's on, it's saved his life and saved Hogg and miraculously brought both of them home despite their deaths in the Weaver's foresight, and he still says it isn't worth it. Because you know how he could have avoided having to be in Scarred One for that fight to begin with? By not going after another achievement to make his numbers go up, no matter how much it hurts him! He has to do something else or he's just going to keep being that angry, miserable person forever. Additional Patreon spoiler post class change: Which is why when he changes out of the class, his Scarred title changes to Scarred But Healing and gets a sizeable boost, because it's representing how he's changed course and resolved to do things differently.

So yeah, I think you put exactly the right amount of thought into this, you were just so laser-focused on the metaphor you expected that you totally ignored the metaphor that was actually there. It happens to all of us sometimes.

Einander fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Aug 26, 2023

# ? Aug 26, 2023 04:17

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

Einander posted:

I feel like the thing you're missing is that "a piece that explores how people who are incentivized to do harmful things slowly turn into monsters, step by justifiable step" definitely is what Scarred One represents, but it's not saying "this is what you're becoming," it's saying "this is what you have already become."

Tagging's been a mess for this but I'm throwing all the rest in spoilers. Better late than never. This covers only RR stuff except the big "Brin changes out of Scarred One" spoiler, up until I specifically mention I'm about to tag a Patreon thing.

As the Scarred One representative said, "I'm the Class you earned." Taking the injuries and dealing with the pain, becoming angrier and moodier, scarred and ugly on the inside but that doesn't matter so long as you're strong--that's exactly what he's been doing every since he came into town! Scarred One isn't a drug that's baiting Brin onto a destructive path, because he's already been on that destructive path for months! Scarred One is the path he's chosen. It's him if he keeps going the way he's been, with or without a class.

Like, when at the start of Part 3, Brin said "That�s why I�m always trying to get achievements all day every day. I don�t know how to do anything else. I don�t have anyone" and Hogg said "If I had a child, a real one, I would never treat him the way I�ve treated you," the takeaway from their big heart-to-heart isn't supposed to be "Hogg messed up on the Tawra thing but everything else is fine." It's saying everything Brin and Hogg have been doing since they came to town was wrong. Brin shouldn't have spent all of his time isolated and grinding achievements, Hogg shouldn't have kept his distance and treated Brin as both a child and an adult, Hogg shouldn't have been so inert on the Tawra thing. This is a LitRPG, but the author's still saying, hey, maybe being in a LitRPG story doesn't mean you should ignore everything else in your life to get big numbers, because in the end you still have to live that life. You know how Scarred One, as a rare class, gets more stat points per level than the conventional classes? The reason that's part of the giant metaphor that is Scarred One is that the story is saying the points weren't worth it! None of what Brin's been doing has been worth it!

So of course he throws away the class the moment he has the option, because this is how he displays that he's learned the lesson! He's seen the power of the path he's on, it's saved his life and saved Hogg and miraculously brought both of them home despite their deaths in the Weaver's foresight, and he still says it isn't worth it. Because you know how he could have avoided having to be in Scarred One for that fight to begin with? By not going after another achievement to make his numbers go up, no matter how much it hurts him! He has to do something else or he's just going to keep being that angry, miserable person forever. Additional Patreon spoiler post class change: Which is why when he changes out of the class, his Scarred title changes to Scarred But Healing and gets a sizeable boost, because it's representing how he's changed course and resolved to do things differently.

So yeah, I think you put exactly the right amount of thought into this, you were just so laser-focused on the metaphor you expected that you totally ignored the metaphor that was actually there. It happens to all of us sometimes.

I actually got that one just fine. I thought it was very fitting and flowed well from everything that had been established so far. We�d actually even been told already that something like that was probably going to happen, by characters repeatedly warning Brin that it would.

Where it falls flat, though, is that if Brin is predisposed to being an antisocial loner who pushes himself to the point of exhaustion, he doesn�t need a class magically manipulating his thoughts and emotions in order for him to do those things. All it needs to do is give him the tools to keep doing what he was already doing. But what he got instead, at least once he exhausted the �obvious� skill choices, were cartoon villain options that a pre-Scarred One Brin would never even consider, and the push to take and use them. The metaphor is actually weakened by Brin being made into an angrier person through supernatural means. His rejection of the class is no longer just a realization that the path he had set himself on was lonely and self-destructive, but it�s now a legitimately good idea on its own merits if he doesn�t want to be forced to become a cartoon villain.

It�s squandered potential, and the frustrating thing is that it can be fixed so easily by just not having evil classes inflict personality changes.

(Perhaps I should tell myself that there�s a secret mega-twist coming in a couple hundred chapters where it turns out that every class manipulates your thoughts and emotions, and the entire world is being forced into the shape that it is through subtle mind control by some grand conspiracy?)

# ? Aug 26, 2023 05:32

Einander: Sep 14, 2008; "Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

blastron posted:

I actually got that one just fine. I thought it was very fitting and flowed well from everything that had been established so far. We�d actually even been told already that something like that was probably going to happen, by characters repeatedly warning Brin that it would.

Where it falls flat, though, is that if Brin is predisposed to being an antisocial loner who pushes himself to the point of exhaustion, he doesn�t need a class magically manipulating his thoughts and emotions in order for him to do those things. All it needs to do is give him the tools to keep doing what he was already doing. But what he got instead, at least once he exhausted the �obvious� skill choices, were cartoon villain options that a pre-Scarred One Brin would never even consider, and the push to take and use them. The metaphor is actually weakened by Brin being made into an angrier person through supernatural means. His rejection of the class is no longer just a realization that the path he had set himself on was lonely and self-destructive, but it�s now a legitimately good idea on its own merits if he doesn�t want to be forced to become a cartoon villain.

It�s squandered potential, and the frustrating thing is that it can be fixed so easily by just not having evil classes inflict personality changes.

(Perhaps I should tell myself that there�s a secret mega-twist coming in a couple hundred chapters where it turns out that every class manipulates your thoughts and emotions, and the entire world is being forced into the shape that it is through subtle mind control by some grand conspiracy?)

Because the role it plays in the story isn't to make it a valid class for what he wants to do and for who he wants to be, it's to hold up a mirror and say "these are the ways in which your path is ugly and it is making you an ugly person." Nothing in Scarred One is external, it's all things he's brought in and things he's doing. It's the embodiment of what his choices have been doing to him and where that road ends, blown up dramatically on a large scale.

How does grafting extra mechanical distractions onto the metaphor make it function better in communicating the theme? If it results in more readers missing the point so dramatically that they're actually saying "Scarred One was good, he should have stayed in Scarred One," then making it mechanically deeper makes the story thematically worse! And, I mean, we had multiple people in the thread saying "I dropped Bog Standard Isekai because he changed classes out of Scarred One," so clearly this is already happening.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 06:32

LLSix: Jan 20, 2010; The real power behind countless overlords

Einander posted:

Because the role it plays in the story isn't to make it a valid class for what he wants to do and for who he wants to be, it's to hold up a mirror and say "these are the ways in which your path is ugly and it is making you an ugly person." Nothing in Scarred One is external, it's all things he's brought in and things he's doing. It's the embodiment of what his choices have been doing to him and where that road ends, blown up dramatically on a large scale.

How does grafting extra mechanical distractions onto the metaphor make it function better in communicating the theme? If it results in more readers missing the point so dramatically that they're actually saying "Scarred One was good, he should have stayed in Scarred One," then making it mechanically deeper makes the story thematically worse! And, I mean, we had multiple people in the thread saying "I dropped Bog Standard Isekai because he changed classes out of Scarred One," so clearly this is already happening.

I think Blastron's point might be that the evil class isn't an effective "mirror" because it's also doing double duty as a mind control ray?

I think only 1 person said they dropped the story on that chapter? It's been shedding readers every chapter for the last couple of updates. I know I dropped out when he took the evil Scarred One class because the circumstances to make that a reasonable decision were so incredibly contrived and I was already on the fence because everything about Tawna was poorly executed. It would be interesting to hear if the reader in question dropped it because they thought Scarred One was awesome and wanted to read more Scarred One adventures or some other reason.

LLSix fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Aug 26, 2023

# ? Aug 26, 2023 07:28

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

blastron posted:

(Perhaps I should tell myself that there�s a secret mega-twist coming in a couple hundred chapters where it turns out that every class manipulates your thoughts and emotions, and the entire world is being forced into the shape that it is through subtle mind control by some grand conspiracy?)

has anyone, ever, actually done this story

like it's incredibly obvious that basically every "System" is a weird proto-fascist numbers-rule-everything-and-go-up psyop and yet I don't think anyone's ever done more than "the gods made the system and we need to kill them", even the only example of that I can think of (what was that called? where the dude's parents were like tier 8 and he got a "lovely" tier 1 crafting class and combined with some other tier 1s to literally go infinite and killed the gods at the behest of some Lovecraftian entity?) didn't involve toppling the loving system altogether

# ? Aug 26, 2023 14:14

asur: Dec 28, 2012

DACK FAYDEN posted:

has anyone, ever, actually done this story

like it's incredibly obvious that basically every "System" is a weird proto-fascist numbers-rule-everything-and-go-up psyop and yet I don't think anyone's ever done more than "the gods made the system and we need to kill them", even the only example of that I can think of (what was that called? where the dude's parents were like tier 8 and he got a "lovely" tier 1 crafting class and combined with some other tier 1s to literally go infinite and killed the gods at the behest of some Lovecraftian entity?) didn't involve toppling the loving system altogether

I'm not that far into the story, but Slumrat Rising appears to be doing this.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 14:47

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

asur posted:

I'm not that far into the story, but Slumrat Rising appears to be doing this.

oh, that's fair, without posting spoilers that is a good point

# ? Aug 26, 2023 15:06

Onean: Feb 11, 2010; Maiden in white...
You are not one of us.

DACK FAYDEN posted:

has anyone, ever, actually done this story

like it's incredibly obvious that basically every "System" is a weird proto-fascist numbers-rule-everything-and-go-up psyop and yet I don't think anyone's ever done more than "the gods made the system and we need to kill them", even the only example of that I can think of (what was that called? where the dude's parents were like tier 8 and he got a "lovely" tier 1 crafting class and combined with some other tier 1s to literally go infinite and killed the gods at the behest of some Lovecraftian entity?) didn't involve toppling the loving system altogether

Spoilers for chapter 117 (14 chapters ago on RR) of A Budding Scientist in a Fantasy World: Not what you're asking about, the story does the opposite here. One of the System's primary functions is maintaining Free Will, which the MC discovers by trying to make her own class seed by copying her current class, Explorer of Magic. She does something wrong, the world's magic starts overreacting and she starts getting overwhelmed by an irrefusable desire to do nothing but Explore Magic. Nothing would break the desire, not even risks of death. Then, she starts getting bombarded by the thoughts and conceptions of mages and others that study magic across the entire planet, living and dead, beginning to lose her individuality and sense of self. The System steps in, disconnects her false class seed and she returns to normal.

Spoilers for chapter 124: The System has stopped working.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 16:00

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

Onean posted:

Spoilers for chapter 117 (14 chapters ago on RR) of A Budding Scientist in a Fantasy World: Not what you're asking about, the story does the opposite here. One of the System's primary functions is maintaining Free Will, which the MC discovers by trying to make her own class seed by copying her current class, Explorer of Magic. She does something wrong, the world's magic starts overreacting and she starts getting overwhelmed by an irrefusable desire to do nothing but Explore Magic. Nothing would break the desire, not even risks of death. Then, she starts getting bombarded by the thoughts and conceptions of mages and others that study magic across the entire planet, living and dead, beginning to lose her individuality and sense of self. The System steps in, disconnects her false class seed and she returns to normal.

Spoilers for chapter 124: The System has stopped working.

Spoilers for chapter 128 :Mages are exploding into gibs without the System to step in and normalize their magical seeds

# ? Aug 26, 2023 16:13

cyrn: Sep 11, 2001; The Man is a harsh mistress.

shirunei posted:

None of that stuff matters because...

I'm not super invested in this story, but does anyone else find posting unmarked spoilers from Patreon in an attempt to kill a discussion cause you didn't like where the author went Not Cool?

# ? Aug 26, 2023 16:22

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

cyrn posted:

I'm not super invested in this story, but does anyone else find posting unmarked spoilers from Patreon in an attempt to kill a discussion cause you didn't like where the author went Not Cool?

The 'next chapter' in question was posted on RR yesterday and it didn't happen, so maybe it's the next next chapter or maybe they were just trolling, I dunno. But yeah, lame either way.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 16:25

Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

Really don't understand the obvious desire people have for no one to read stories they don't like.

Patrick Spens fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 26, 2023

# ? Aug 26, 2023 16:36

Wittgen: Oct 13, 2012; We have decided to decline your offer of a butt kicking.

The desire to be right can be stronger than the desire for happiness.

I am happy to just keep on gushing about SupSup. Chapter 80: Several comments on the Patreon seem to think the fourth roommate will be the musician Velras. It feels like a stretch to me, but it would be funny. Am I missing something that makes it likely? Feels like a rich brat might not even use campus dorms.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 17:03

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

LLSix posted:

I think Blastron's point might be that the evil class isn't an effective "mirror" because it's also doing double duty as a mind control ray?

That�s exactly it. Having an evil class is an obviously bad idea for anyone who doesn�t want to be evil, because it explicitly makes you evil, rather than just giving you tools that help you indulge in the worst aspects of your personality.

It turns the rejection of the class from �the path I�m on is self-destructive and I must change my ways for the sake of my future� to �this class will turn me into something I do not want to become, so I must free myself of its influence�.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 17:15

Nick Buntline: Dec 20, 2007; Doesn't know the impossible.

Wittgen posted:

The desire to be right can be stronger than the desire for happiness.

I am happy to just keep on gushing about SupSup. Chapter 80: Several comments on the Patreon seem to think the fourth roommate will be the musician Velras. It feels like a stretch to me, but it would be funny. Am I missing something that makes it likely? Feels like a rich brat might not even use campus dorms.

The musicians at the funeral were stated to be high school freshman and university freshman, and Lute was specifically noted to be a very young appearing teen, so the timeline for him to be a second year art high school student someone knows on campus works out. He also shared Keiko's annoyance at the family for viewing Chainer as an end rather than a means (complaining they'd probably be happy if he lost the ability to play music), so he'd probably be living on campus even if he didn't have to. But mostly it'd just be hilarious for him to reject Max because he doesn't want to be on edge all the time and then end up rooming with a Velra.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 17:24

Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

SS80Lute is a bit on the outs with his family because he's focusing on music. So I could see him wanting out of the family residence if folks are hassling him when he practices.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 18:29

Anias: Jun 3, 2010; It really is a lovely hat

Patrick Spens posted:

Really don't understand the obvious desire people have for no one to read stories they don't like.

Some stories are sufficiently dubious that warning folks away is public service. I�m never bothered by people ignoring the warnings, but it feels like stuff that doesn�t tag itself as non-con/rape, to pick a random example that has come up years ago, deserves to have goons looking out for goons and suggesting not to dive in. I�ve certainly appreciated being warned off Nazis-did-nothing-wrong authors.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 19:15

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

I do appreciate the warnings when something trending is trash. This thread generally has good taste.

We should still keep spoilers under bars, though.

# ? Aug 26, 2023 20:53

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Anias posted:

Some stories are sufficiently dubious that warning folks away is public service. I’m never bothered by people ignoring the warnings, but it feels like stuff that doesn’t tag itself as non-con/rape, to pick a random example that has come up years ago, deserves to have goons looking out for goons and suggesting not to dive in. I’ve certainly appreciated being warned off Nazis-did-nothing-wrong authors.

As someone who has done the "whining about stuff I don't like" thing before (though I try to avoid it now), it's often because of curiosity about why other people who usually have similar taste (this thread) feel so differently about something.

In certain circumstances there can also be an element of "being offended when someone has bad tastes in the sort of way that makes other web serials terrible when they try to indulge said bad tastes." That isn't really a thing in this thread, but it can come up in RR or Patreon comments (where someone is excited at the prospect of really dumb/bad stuff happening). Objectively speaking I realize it doesn't matter and isn't hurting anyone, but I still can't help but think "drat this person is dumb and has bad taste."

# ? Aug 26, 2023 23:18

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Onean posted:

Spoilers for chapter 117 (14 chapters ago on RR) of A Budding Scientist in a Fantasy World: Not what you're asking about, the story does the opposite here. One of the System's primary functions is maintaining Free Will, which the MC discovers by trying to make her own class seed by copying her current class, Explorer of Magic. She does something wrong, the world's magic starts overreacting and she starts getting overwhelmed by an irrefusable desire to do nothing but Explore Magic. Nothing would break the desire, not even risks of death. Then, she starts getting bombarded by the thoughts and conceptions of mages and others that study magic across the entire planet, living and dead, beginning to lose her individuality and sense of self. The System steps in, disconnects her false class seed and she returns to normal.

Spoilers for chapter 124: The System has stopped working.

Huh. I actually started reading this one a while back and then got to the end of what existed and stopped and never went back. This actually sounds awesome so I will have to go back and catch up or honestly probably restart. Complaining works!

# ? Aug 26, 2023 23:24

Peachfart: Jan 21, 2017

Patrick Spens posted:

Really don't understand the obvious desire people have for no one to read stories they don't like.

There is a lot of stuff out there that starts off interesting and then gets bad, in either a bad writing way or a 'this content is weird/creepy/racist' way. Paranoid Mage for one example. I would rather know those things if someone else has found them so I don't waste my time on what will ultimately be a disappointment.
Edit: And also I don't have to take someone else's advice, it is just a consideration point. Like I'm not going to stop reading TWI because about a third of the people here don't like it.

Peachfart fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Aug 26, 2023

# ? Aug 26, 2023 23:46

Kyoujin: Oct 7, 2009

There's also something about the web serial release. A book series you read in chunks and even if a sequel is disappointing you have a year or so in-between so maybe not as invested? Serial you follow week by week and seems like it is building up to something cool and then it goes in a different direction and feels very frustrating in comparison.

Completely unrelated note (SupSup): I love how Sleyca addressed Aldens trauma a couple RR chapters back. Bad fiction has the tendency to think "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" so if the MC survives a horrific ordeal or pain then they can easily do it again and shrug it off. In reality those things can mess you up and Alden admits if he was asked to go through that again, he would only do it for Kibby.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 02:58

Wittgen: Oct 13, 2012; We have decided to decline your offer of a butt kicking.

That's such a good moment. It's very honest and endearingly vulnerable. At the same time, it still shows off how rad Alden is. He hasn't even got a haircut yet, and he's being hard on himself for not being willing to almost kill himself for anyone except Kibby. Plenty of people in his situation wouldn't be willing to go through that again for anyone. (And reasonably so.)

Something I have been thinking about is how SupSup does a good job of melding the power up fun of a litrpg with the moral fantasy of a good superman story. In good superman stories, supermans great morality and great power are linked in a satisfying way. In SupSup, Alden's increasing power is linked to him being a good person. Bond with Gorgon because he had empathy for an imprisoned alien. Wizard knowledge because he took care of a little kid in a bad situation.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 03:17

LLSix: Jan 20, 2010; The real power behind countless overlords

Kyoujin posted:

Completely unrelated note (SupSup): I love how Sleyca addressed Aldens trauma a couple RR chapters back. Bad fiction has the tendency to think "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" so if the MC survives a horrific ordeal or pain then they can easily do it again and shrug it off. In reality those things can mess you up and Alden admits if he was asked to go through that again, he would only do it for Kibby.

Yeah, that was a good moment. Having a multi-chapter arc devoted to his return allowed for a lot of character development and nuance which I really appreciated. Certainly wouldn't expect most serial authors to be able to keep me invested in such a long time devoted to a sequence of events with foregone conclusions though.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 03:18

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Peachfart posted:

There is a lot of stuff out there that starts off interesting and then gets bad, in either a bad writing way or a 'this content is weird/creepy/racist' way. Paranoid Mage for one example. I would rather know those things if someone else has found them so I don't waste my time on what will ultimately be a disappointment.
Edit: And also I don't have to take someone else's advice, it is just a consideration point. Like I'm not going to stop reading TWI because about a third of the people here don't like it.

And often you're not really sure if the author is working their way towards something with the weird development or if the story is just bad now so you keep reading it for a bit and then one day you realize you've been reading a story you hate for months and get mad at it.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 05:36

Nothingtoseehere: Nov 11, 2010

LLSix posted:

Yeah, that was a good moment. Having a multi-chapter arc devoted to his return allowed for a lot of character development and nuance which I really appreciated. Certainly wouldn't expect most serial authors to be able to keep me invested in such a long time devoted to a sequence of events with foregone conclusions though.

Sleyca had a point about this in the comment section of the most recent chapter - with the pace and length of a web serial, you can make elements of the Hero's Journey whole arcs in their own right. The Call to Adventure is a whole adventure in itself own right with the Moon Thargold arc, and the Refusal of the Call is the current one where Alden grapples with the question if he could do it again.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 07:30

Nettle Soup: Jan 30, 2010; Oh, and Jones was there too.

Well, TTOU 92 is certainly something. Worth catching up on for anyone who's behind!

# ? Aug 27, 2023 10:10

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

Pleased to see Aspen Greaves taking swift, decisive action.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 11:55

imnotinsane: Jul 19, 2006

What in the world is going on with this murder. Should I as the reader know at this point who was responsible? I think I enjoyed it more when I was binge reading. Maybe I need to let it build up and come back to it

# ? Aug 27, 2023 13:43

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

imnotinsane posted:

What in the world is going on with this murder. Should I as the reader know at this point who was responsible? I think I enjoyed it more when I was binge reading. Maybe I need to let it build up and come back to it

You are not intended to know at this point

# ? Aug 27, 2023 14:13

Einander: Sep 14, 2008; "Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

(ToOU 92) And in the middle of all of this we're reminded, hey, the ship is still able to do things on its own for its own reasons, and sometimes those reasons are even good! Because it pointed them to the right room in two different ways, both by referencing the medical room and also by making them want to get to Tal, who is past that specific medical room, and the alarm shut off as soon as they entered the room. I appreciate Derin's commitment to keeping all of this as messy as possible.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 15:57

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

I'm at chapter 58 in TtOU and I really like Aspen as a protagonist. They're flawed in a way that is very believable.

(chapter 58) I'm hoping that this new guy Sands actually has more depth to him as well. He's an rear end in a top hat for being okay with the kill switches, but in a way that can still be pretty interesting.

I also really like how having Aspen as our PoV masked the far more realistic nature of their world and the Javelin program that was proposed by Adin in chapter 57. Aspin is obviously pretty naive, so it's good to have the PoV of these other characters who were prisoners. The second Friend also seems to contribute to my feeling that the first Friend seems to have far more individuality than I'd expect given what we've been told about Friends (since the second one seems to fit that understanding far more).

There's one thing where I'm curious about whether it'll be elaborated on later - do we ever learn any characteristics of the Brennan gender? It seems like Brennan isn't just a label for people who would be non-binary/genderfluid in our world, since that seems to also exist as a separate thing (and I think Aspen may be in that category through process of elimination, since they don't identify as any of the other 3 "specific" genders).

# ? Aug 27, 2023 19:45

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

Ytlaya posted:

There's one thing where I'm curious about whether it'll be elaborated on later - do we ever learn any characteristics of the Brennan gender? It seems like Brennan isn't just a label for people who would be non-binary/genderfluid in our world, since that seems to also exist as a separate thing (and I think Aspen may be in that category through process of elimination, since they don't identify as any of the other 3 "specific" genders).

As of 92, if there's any explicit social construct and/or biological function for brennans, it hasn't been brought up.

I don't remember if this is before or after where you are, but the crew talks some about pre-Neocambrian society and mentions how we don't have that concept and would either treat them as non-binary or, as often happens with enby people today, assume them to be male or female.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 20:12

Griddle of Love: May 14, 2020

Ytlaya posted:

There's one thing where I'm curious about whether it'll be elaborated on later - do we ever learn any characteristics of the Brennan gender? It seems like Brennan isn't just a label for people who would be non-binary/genderfluid in our world, since that seems to also exist as a separate thing (and I think Aspen may be in that category through process of elimination, since they don't identify as any of the other 3 "specific" genders).

I'm caught up to the latest non-patreon chapter (092), and I was just bemoaning the same thing to my spouse earlier. Their response: (not a big spoiler) there's a scene where some characters talk about it going "haha, in the time of [the audience], they have assumed all of us (nb, Brennan, Friend) to be more or less the same gender, imagine that!".

For the depth to which the story explores some other concepts, it really doesn't do much with four of its five genders, other than the Friends. I'd have loved some details on what the social differences between being a Brennan, an Enby, a Woman and a Man are, but I imagine it's difficult, because humanity seems quite fractured and it probably varies quite a bit from culture to culture.

I do concur with your assessment of Aspen and Sands so far.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 20:26

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

blastron posted:

I don't remember if this is before or after where you are, but the crew talks some about pre-Neocambrian society and mentions how we don't have that concept and would either treat them as non-binary or, as often happens with enby people today, assume them to be male or female.

That was chapter 45 (Zombies) so it should be before where OP is at.

That was the biggest info dump on the gender stuff

# ? Aug 27, 2023 20:27

Nettle Soup: Jan 30, 2010; Oh, and Jones was there too.

# ? Aug 27, 2023 20:34

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 01:18

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

I've just been assuming that space non-binary is still sort of a generic umbrella for genders outside the... wait, is Aspen non-ternary?

# ? Aug 27, 2023 21:01

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Web Serials: It remains to be seen how important Evanescence will be

«‹›434 »