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Arsenic Lupin posted:I don't think you're going back far enough. The freezer, refrigerator, and sewing machine are also big drat deals. And arguably the spinning wheel... Running water is huge.
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Aug 25, 2023 20:27
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whoever invented the sun was really on to something...
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Aug 25, 2023 20:30
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I don't think you're going back far enough. The freezer, refrigerator, and sewing machine are also big drat deals. And arguably the spinning wheel... domestication of livestock, agriculture, language, the six simple machines, cooking
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Aug 25, 2023 20:43
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Agriculture did not save labor; far from it.
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Aug 25, 2023 21:09
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Yeah, hunter-gatherers have far more leisure time than farmers.
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Aug 26, 2023 08:18
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What the hell, France?
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Aug 26, 2023 11:53
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Huge bong rip Dude Wheat domesticated us
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Aug 26, 2023 12:13
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Clarste posted:Yeah, hunter-gatherers have far more leisure time than farmers. I know, for when any of the farmers that I know have any free time of their own, they go hunting-gathering. But I don't know any hunter-gatherers that would go farming on their day off.
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Aug 26, 2023 12:18
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Clarste posted:Yeah, hunter-gatherers have far more leisure time than farmers. Yeah and a lot less food as population density increases. It's not like people had bountiful hunting grounds to themselves without competition and then decided to switch to farming because it seemed like a fun idea.
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Aug 26, 2023 12:33
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iirc most of those "studies" are also done by dumbfuck anthropologists who wouldn't recognize "work" even if not doing it would lead to them starving to death
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Aug 26, 2023 12:39
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Owling Howl posted:Yeah and a lot less food as population density increases. It's not like people had bountiful hunting grounds to themselves without competition and then decided to switch to farming because it seemed like a fun idea. It does not scale very well, no. Also farmers generating enough food for other people to do other work was a huge shift in civilization (or rather, it created the concept of civilization) but that just goes to show that increased technology has always been used to create more work, rather than more leisure. Oneiros posted:iirc most of those "studies" are also done by dumbfuck anthropologists who wouldn't recognize "work" even if not doing it would lead to them starving to death Possibly, I was just repeating a factoid with no research.
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Aug 26, 2023 12:54
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i remember similar issues with studies of feudal agricultural practices. wow, look at all this time people weren't spending "working"! surely it's not due to to the fact that you can't just keep pouring time into crops to, i dunno, make them grow faster or something? and that people were significantly calorie restricted a good chunk of the year and would literally starve to death with extra expenditures
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Aug 26, 2023 13:02
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Amphigory posted:What the hell, France?
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Aug 26, 2023 13:34
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Nenonen posted:I know, for when any of the farmers that I know have any free time of their own, they go hunting-gathering. But I don't know any hunter-gatherers that would go farming on their day off. Gardening? Oneiros posted:i remember similar issues with studies of feudal agricultural practices. wow, look at all this time people weren't spending "working"! surely it's not due to to the fact that you can't just keep pouring time into crops to, i dunno, make them grow faster or something? and that people were significantly calorie restricted a good chunk of the year and would literally starve to death with extra expenditures Yyyep, and if anything highlights another problem with modern work culture that there's expectation to be constantly performing some sort of 'working' regardless of whether there's any productivity to be had. I suppose there's the whole thing where traditional farmers are supposed to have not only crops but also livestock, chickens, and basically whatever else they could fit into a stereotypical rural setting...
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Aug 26, 2023 14:02
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Oneiros posted:i remember similar issues with studies of feudal agricultural practices. wow, look at all this time people weren't spending "working"! surely it's not due to to the fact that you can't just keep pouring time into crops to, i dunno, make them grow faster or something? and that people were significantly calorie restricted a good chunk of the year and would literally starve to death with extra expenditures Growing enough food for just yourself is not really that hard or difficult. It's very insecure because your only safety margin is the food you saved from last year so if there happens to be a drought or plague you might just die. And if you have no surplus to trade for other things then you have no other things which includes healthcare, electricity, indoor plumbing, car/bike, appliances, electronics, phone, clothes, any media and entertainmen. It's miserable unless it's all you have ever known which is why people try to produce more food than just for themselves.
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Aug 26, 2023 15:17
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Also they often have to produce food for landlord rent or taxes.... Edit: and grow plants for turning into textiles, since before industrial revolution those are extremely labor intensive, and likely to be produced by women of the household, rather than be affordable to trade for. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Aug 26, 2023 |
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Aug 26, 2023 15:21
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I don't think you're going back far enough. The freezer, refrigerator, and sewing machine are also big drat deals. And arguably the spinning wheel... Those have obvious value but I'm pretty sure the washing machine was the biggest single time saver for housework. Laundry was a huge time sink because iirc it requires the most nonstop interaction. https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/how-appliance-boom-moved-more-women-workforce Single example but laundry went from 8 hours to 2 hours. Some of that was ironing (also improved by electricity). Zachack fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Aug 26, 2023 |
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Aug 26, 2023 20:00
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Spinning wheel and other textile production improvements are far and away the biggest labor savor, if you're allowing them. They kind of seem like cheating though since the textile production labor in ye old peasant farm is roughly the same amount of work as the food production labor. If you're counting that as household labor, seems like you should also be counting things like "plow" or "potato" as technologies
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Aug 27, 2023 02:35
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Really, the biggest time saver for me was when I went multi-cellular and figured out division of metabolic labor and cellular differentiation. Left me lots of time for deep thought, or possibly excreting insulin.
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Aug 27, 2023 04:12
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Sundae posted:Really, the biggest time saver for me was when I went multi-cellular and figured out division of metabolic labor and cellular differentiation. Left me lots of time for deep thought, or possibly excreting insulin. Meanwhile, I'm here with the rest of the phytoplankton, just vibing. smdh if you don't produce your own energy from the sun all day.
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Aug 27, 2023 04:19
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BiggerBoat posted:Bosses thought what we did was easy since "the computer does it now". Nobody's pay really went up (in fact it's gone down) even though the poo poo we were expected to know and adapt to increased exponentially . This explains a lot. You worked for lovely stupid assholes. Between the ad agency and the design studio I spent almost a decade working for people, who while often assholes, respected the people who could make Creative Suite scream. The art directors weren't expected to produce more work, they were expected to produce better work as the tools improved. Sometimes at 4am after the account lead and the creative director had a screaming argument and there's a new creative direction now.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:48
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Oneiros posted:iirc most of those "studies" are also done by dumbfuck anthropologists who wouldn't recognize "work" even if not doing it would lead to them starving to death Oneiros posted:i remember similar issues with studies of feudal agricultural practices. wow, look at all this time people weren't spending "working"! surely it's not due to to the fact that you can't just keep pouring time into crops to, i dunno, make them grow faster or something? and that people were significantly calorie restricted a good chunk of the year and would literally starve to death with extra expenditures If you have access to these studies or a good review of them, I'd be pretty interested in reading it. I've always heard that fact, or possibly not fact, that people used to work less than modern day people. I don't inherently see a problem with saying someone who can't really improve their yield isn't working when the crops are growing. Thats not saying their lives are better, they just don't have as much work to do once the crops are planted. But time spent for daily household chores like laundry has gone down. I wonder how much of that is actually time saved if you look at feudal societies or hunter gatherer societies though, they just wouldn't wash their clothes as much.
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Aug 28, 2023 15:07
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gurragadon posted:
Yeah, no matter how much I try and change them my kids will wear clothes for an hour or two around the house and then throw them in the wash when they go to bed. I can wear the same set of clothes for at least a few days if I'm not going around getting them sweaty or soiled. I bet if we couldn't just throw"dirty"clothes in the wash and walk away we'd think harder about wether something could be reworn a couple of times.
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Aug 29, 2023 00:45
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starkebn posted:Yeah, no matter how much I try and change them my kids will wear clothes for an hour or two around the house and then throw them in the wash when they go to bed. I can wear the same set of clothes for at least a few days if I'm not going around getting them sweaty or soiled.
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Aug 29, 2023 01:17
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It's not a forgotten technique: the secret to looking like you're cool and not dying south of the Mason-Dixon Line is to wear an undershirt.
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Aug 29, 2023 02:21
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Googling info on items and locations in Baldur's Gate III while i play has made me realize just how badly AI is loving up the entire internet already and its only going to get worse. Every question i Google gets ten hits to articles obviously thrown together with chat prompts that just makes poo poo up to create pages of useless text. I hate looking at these dumb sites and realizing how instructive they are to future broader search engine failure
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Aug 29, 2023 09:36
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I've had to outright block multiple news outlets on Google news since the AI boom. Just story after story of AI regurgitation from what ever is doing high numbers on Reddit or tiktok, not even proof read.
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Aug 29, 2023 12:50
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yay, infinite floods of things like this push themselves up to the top of the google algorithm, they proliferate far quicker and more numerously than credible sources, and are simply spammed out with individual articles poo poo out about any individual place, item, or quest in the entire game. and it's like a game of telephone: it's actually difficult to count precisely how many parts of this article are completely inaccurate and have nothing to do with what's in the game, so all the future AI articles poo poo out about it will factor in completely hallucinated elements in this round of AI articles. Considering how quickly this ratched up to its current state, it probably won't be long before this goes way past just being annoying. Is it possible to enshittify the entire internet as a platform? We might just achieve it.
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Aug 29, 2023 13:53
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Discord wins again
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Aug 29, 2023 14:10
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We will have to bring back webrings.
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Aug 29, 2023 14:13
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non-AI articles will be advertised as "artisanal", "handcrafted", "organic"
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Aug 29, 2023 14:23
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Discord wins again They haven't been winning for quite some time. Enshittification comes for us all.
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Aug 29, 2023 15:06
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TACD posted:non-AI articles will be advertised as "artisanal", "handcrafted", "organic"
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Aug 29, 2023 15:11
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Discord is a terrible platform to store knowledge in, its search engine is terrible, things can be deleted forever at any time, and the UI is terrible for anything other than chatting.
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Aug 29, 2023 15:24
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I once googled for advice on choosing strings for my bass guitar and yeah
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Aug 29, 2023 15:32
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Kinda neat if we Kessler Syndrome the internet before we do it to actual space.
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Aug 29, 2023 16:13
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Xand_Man posted:Kinda neat if we Kessler Syndrome the internet before we do it to actual space. Elon's satellites are making astronomy increasingly untenable, and not even space telescopes are safe. We are blinding ourselves to the cosmos so that we can have in-flight wifi. And we all know that it's just a matter of time before they start putting ads in space. In light of that, a little Kessler Syndrome would probably do us good, and give us time to figure out how to regulate space, before they take the sky from us.
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Aug 29, 2023 17:59
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Google just debuted their new option to allow for "AI-driven" searches last week I opted in, but it honestly seems 99% the same. The only major differences I've seen is that you can highlight words in search results to get short definitions of them. They also say that the AI will generate short bullet points/summaries of searches at the top of the results screen, but I'm fairly sure that has been happening for a long time. They say there are a lot of backend coding and search improvements, but you can't really tell any of that as an end user. Seems like another AI thing that was 99% hype and not actually doing much. quote:We launched our generative AI-powered Search experience (SGE) less than three months ago, and we’re encouraged that the early feedback has been positive. Since the initial rollout, we’ve continuously made improvements to make the experience even more helpful. In fact, we recently announced updates including more images and videos in overviews, improvements to how links are displayed and more. https://blog.google/products/search/google-search-generative-ai-learning-features/
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Aug 29, 2023 20:00
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Staluigi posted:Googling info on items and locations in Baldur's Gate III while i play has made me realize just how badly AI is loving up the entire internet already and its only going to get worse. Every question i Google gets ten hits to articles obviously thrown together with chat prompts that just makes poo poo up to create pages of useless text. I hate looking at these dumb sites and realizing how instructive they are to future broader search engine failure It does lead to some humor when these brainless sites scrape stuff that is obviously nonsense https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/07/redditors-prank-ai-powered-news-mill-with-glorbo-in-world-of-warcraft/ I assume the big consequence of AI generated stuff won't be that it will replace real news, just that it will make the bar so low everyone will accept low effort garbage
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Aug 29, 2023 20:50
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Staluigi posted:Googling info on items and locations in Baldur's Gate III while i play has made me realize just how badly AI is loving up the entire internet already and its only going to get worse. Every question i Google gets ten hits to articles obviously thrown together with chat prompts that just makes poo poo up to create pages of useless text. I hate looking at these dumb sites and realizing how instructive they are to future broader search engine failure Ive been seeing a lot of those too. I was playing JA3 and googled some quests and every result I got was that kind of poo poo. Its not even such a popular game like BG3
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Aug 29, 2023 20:57
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