|
Mordiceius posted:Nah. Intent and goals mean jackshit. It’s either a good film or it’s not. How come many pieces of art are derided when they're created and then become beloved in subsequent generations, or vice versa? It was a bad film, but now it's a good film. How does that work in your formulation?
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 16:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 14:55 |
|
|
All art is bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 16:29
|
|
|
When somebody says it's a bad or good film, they hopefully mean that it either works for them or it doesn't (if you truly believe that films are "objectively good or bad" then there's no hope for you, you have become a terminal narcicist). This is influenced by all kinds of things including the context of the work - which the artist has no control over. For instance, and as a very short example, I can pretty much guarantee you that Anne Frank had no idea her diary was going to be a powerful work that make me cry in the 7th grade, and most of that comes from the context around the work, not things she had intent over and control over. Reading a young girl's diary just makes you a creep, most of the time. But of course this one is different, and not for any intent of Anne Frank. If you truly believe that the artist's intent is critical in judging a work than you can't have any opinion about cave paintings because those are made by pre-history people with knowledge and perspectives that we, quite simply, will never know. This is really stupid. Of course it's really stupid. You have an opinion on the cave paintings, you're a human being, you understand the context of them. Where does intent enter in here? What the whole "intent of the artist" thing actually represents, in my opinion, is a mind that's been poisoned by consumerism. Instead of putting the artist center and simply reacting to their art as human expression, it treats art as a product that's "designed" to accomplish something for the viewer, and is evaluated as such. If you treat art as a product, you need to care about (or invent) "what the artist was trying to accomplish" so that you can critique it on how well it reached that goal, same as a vacuum or cell phone. Despite endlessly mocking studio executives, plenty of people share their exact mindset. This is further going to be fascinating to see because it's my sincere belief that global warming is going to be the defining catastrophe of the next generation, and that our perspective of slight acknowledgement and blase acceptance of this looming disaster is going to make all of our art seem to them what Gone To The Wind seems to us, which is disgustingly and casually immoral toward the people it's hurting: that future generation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 16:38
|
|
|
is Mank worth seeing? I keep forgetting it exists
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 16:50
|
|
|
Punkin Spunkin posted:is Mank worth seeing? I keep forgetting it exists it doesn't exist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 16:56
|
|
|
teagone posted:Like I said, I don't think Sucker Punch is all that great, but I respect what Snyder was trying to do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
hmmm, i'm interested
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:37
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:When somebody says it's a bad or good film, they hopefully mean that it either works for them or it doesn't (if you truly believe that films are "objectively good or bad" then there's no hope for you, you have become a terminal narcicist). This is influenced by all kinds of things including the context of the work - which the artist has no control over. Tenet was a documentary of this post
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:44
|
|
|
Tenet was awesome
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:45
|
|
|
this definitely looks like a netflix movie (pejorative)
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
Punkin Spunkin posted:Tenet was awesome I am a Tenet defender
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:47
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I am a Tenet defender
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:48
|
|
|
no serious hitman would resolve data security, geolocation issues by stomping on a cell phone or hitting a laptop with a hammer. what is this, amateur hour?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:51
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Tenet was a documentary of this post It's my sincerest hope that you get tired of this little class clown act before you hit 50.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 17:59
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It's my sincerest hope that you get tired of this little class clown act before you hit 50. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 18:02
|
|
|
Ammanas posted:no serious hitman would resolve data security, geolocation issues by stomping on a cell phone or hitting a laptop with a hammer. what is this, amateur hour? I miss the golden olden days where all cellphone data could be rendered inaccessible by snapping them at the hinge.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 18:03
|
|
|
Ammanas posted:no serious hitman would resolve data security, geolocation issues by stomping on a cell phone or hitting a laptop with a hammer. what is this, amateur hour? Looks like he's firing a nailgun into it. Which may or may not work depending how good you are at hitting the right spots. Based on the general tone of the trailer I think this is partially some fever dream of someone who thinks he's an assassin and does stuff he saw assassins do in the movies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
Punkin Spunkin posted:is Mank worth seeing? I keep forgetting it exists It's pretty bland.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2023 21:02
|
|
|
Finally, a movie about an assassin on the run from their employers, it's been too long since we had one of those.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 01:18
|
|
|
Yeah it's been a while since In Bruges
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 01:47
|
|
|
Trailer made me dizzy. Shame its a netflix movie
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 04:24
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Tenet was a documentary of this post say what you will be pattinson was great and his character was good. i still wanna believe he's the kid with the backpack at the very end... 
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 04:44
|
|
|
Magic Hate Ball posted:All art is bad. No, all art is this: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAytw1_0JtVWIdMuN4ejr_GA1Uu9JVsMh?si=HWpWiANBN9JAxDZe
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 05:23
|
|
|
VROOM VROOM posted:Yeah it's been a while since In Bruges What a good flick
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 05:28
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:When somebody says it's a bad or good film, they hopefully mean that it either works for them or it doesn't (if you truly believe that films are "objectively good or bad" then there's no hope for you, you have become a terminal narcicist). This is influenced by all kinds of things including the context of the work - which the artist has no control over. I want to highlight this part of your post because it's something a lot of people either forget or never realize. How you perceive art is shaded by so many unique and individual situations that it's an intrinsically subjective experience. Some of these situations can overlap, but others can cause it to skew wildly. When you see something, who you experience it with, or the backstory involved in its creation can make a piece of art mean something completely different than it does to others. I'll give a music example. This is The Monkees' song Valleri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKGwiH2bw9s It's an okay piece (I really like the guitar work in the beginning), but hearing that takes me back to when I was 4 years old, listening to my mother's old records, and swinging on the rope swing my parents set up. It brings me right back to childhood, and I will always love this song. You may not because it's not your preferred style of music. You may think it sucks. But that conclusion is subjective, regardless of how many people agree with you. And despite our disagreement, we're both right. that being said, I think you can successfully make the argument that a work of art is objectively bad if that something is propaganda, like Birth of a Nation or Triumph of the Will. Those are works where the intent is inherently harmful, and such pieces should be called out for the reprehensible pieces of poo poo that they are.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 05:44
|
|
|
bad example, everyone in the world loves the monkees
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 05:55
|
|
|
Snooze Cruise posted:bad example, everyone in the world loves the monkees They should And while I like Valleri because it's my childhood, I do think For Pete's Sake is their best song for the message, the bass, and because Peter Tork wrote it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxW8hATx3eY Bogus Adventure fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Aug 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 05:56
|
|
|
Porpoise song best song
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 06:25
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:When somebody says it's a bad or good film, they hopefully mean that it either works for them or it doesn't (if you truly believe that films are "objectively good or bad" then there's no hope for you, you have become a terminal narcicist). This is influenced by all kinds of things including the context of the work - which the artist has no control over. I'm in deep agreement with what you're arguing in this post -- I think I've seen it described as "extreme intentionality", but that term came from a transphobe in a book where she was using it to subvert what an essayist meant with what she must have "really" meant; i.e. it's a garbage term that came from a garbage context. However, I don't think it necessarily comes from an overly product-do-thing mindset. I've a friend who likes the idea of art being a way of getting closer to the person who made the art, and he thinks that digging into the intent of a work as an essential part of understanding the text's thesis, and the author's perspective on the world. He and I have talked about this a lot, and the essential understanding I've taken away from this is that he considers this a form of empathy, and of parasocial interaction. So I think there's nuance here. Personally I'm a bit more traditional, in that I think that humans are unknowable black holes even to themselves, and that all art -- including "original art" -- is adaptation. I can only appreciate a work in terms of the emotions and ideas it evokes in me, and criticism happens in expressing the way various technical and expressive choices generate an affect in me. The author's persepctive will be something I can never access, and it may be something they can never access either; while statements they make might be used to inform my reading, I can and will dismiss their interpretations as I see fit, as they are ultimately just one interlocutor -- albeit, one with a more privileged access to the production of their art. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Aug 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 06:33
|
|
|
Snooze Cruise posted:bad example, everyone in the world loves the monkees But in the discussion of intent, a very good example because they were the pre-packaged made for TV band where the members decided that they wanted to be legit and they turned themselves into a real band anyway. Which is why everyone in the world loves the Monkees.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 07:43
|
|
|
Last King posted:say what you will be pattinson was great and his character was good. i still wanna believe he's the kid with the backpack at the very end... I loved Tenet and defend it all the time. I was kinda just being cheeky about MMJS's effortpost since he mentioned the whole what is art paradigm in relation to commodity fetishism and the film is about counterinsurgency shitheads going down the rabithole of a funhouse mirror capital frontier and dooming the future to climate change while heisting through tax haven art storage facility smooth spaces. I think satire reads of Tenet open up myriad possibilities for entertainment. BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Aug 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 10:58
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D78KNtwfwN8
smug n stuff fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 14:30
|
|
|
Nice to see David Schwimmer on screen again.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 14:53
|
|
|
had been hoping for more Adam Driver dialogue in this because I'm really curious what kind of accent he's gonna put on for it
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 15:30
|
|
|
*Ferrari* "I don't know if we need another car movie...." *From Michael Mann* "...nevermind I'm in."
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 15:33
|
|
|
I have a weakness for Michael Mann that not even the dull as hell Ford vs Ferrari could taint. Looks great, Neon with the dope trailer, and an awesome cast.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 16:30
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zceSigCGWSQ This looks like a very very very bad movie. Maybe it's just me, but I was cringing the entire trailer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 17:29
|
|
|
Another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNYepvUtYGA Looks cool to me. Rosamund Pike! Barry Keoghan!
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 17:48
|
|
|
confused posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zceSigCGWSQ It looks like it could be good, but is probably way too meta for its own good. The "Rom Com" movie poster, the airport talking to them like it's God, etc. Yeah, it's probably bad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 18:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 14:55 |
|
|
Saltburn does look good (shot by Linus Sandgren) but I do wonder how well someone as posh and part of the upper class as Emerald Fennell is going to handle the class politics.thrawn527 posted:It looks like it could be good, but is probably way too meta for its own good. The "Rom Com" movie poster, the airport talking to them like it's God, etc. Yeah, it's probably bad. The airport is almost like another character in the movie.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2023 18:22
|
|