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I played a lot of 3rd, a tiny amount of 9th, and now a bit of 10th. I find that there is way too much to keep in my head as a new player. There are a lot of re-roll abilities, so many strategems, I find the flow of the game a bit rough. I do miss the straight forward roll to hit, wound, then the opponent makes a save from 3rd. I can't get into a flow with my turn, I'm always forgetting something, something is always getting re-rolled... I'll figure it out eventually, but I don't really feel like I'm having a smooth fun experience yet. I'm constantly asking my opponent what their unit's abilities are, they are super important, but I can't possibly be expected to remember them all right? For an edition that was about streamlining it sure doesn't feel steamlined, hopefully that eases up a bit as I get more games in.
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Aug 29, 2023 22:46
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xtothez posted:That expectation is because under 8th or 9th edition a new codex would add seventeen additional layers of overlapping rules, which took several months to unpick via balance updates. The worst offenders could often weather multiple rounds of nerfs, such as Tyranids requiring around a year to bring in line because it wasn't clear what corrections could be made without causing collateral damage. What I mean is that half of the codices will not be published by summer 2024. I base this on two decades of playing GW games and being familiar with their pace of release. I also believe that armies with codices will be at a significant advantage relative to those without because: -they will have new datasheets and new model releases, which will be strong both because they’ll be designed with the benefit of experience with what makes a good datasheet in 10e and because GW wants them to sell -they will have access to six times as many detachment rules, stratagems and enhancements. Even if GW doesn’t deliberately push the envelope on these, that’s six times as many chances to gently caress up and print Strands of Fate.
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Aug 29, 2023 22:59
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Also lets be real there will probably be codex creep as well, like they'll shift the design goalposts because that's kinda what designers naturally want to do over time and the stuff halfway through the edition will probably be more complex in some way than the ones about to come out now.
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Aug 29, 2023 23:14
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:What I mean is that half of the codices will not be published by summer 2024. I base this on two decades of playing GW games and being familiar with their pace of release. Is it cool to inline discord image links? 
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Aug 29, 2023 23:16
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cool, so 9 books by spring 2024, call it 11 by midsummer? Out of… 21, assuming that only the chapters that got 9e books get 10e ones (so no ultramarines, iron hands, etc.) and there are no new armies?
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Aug 29, 2023 23:23
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2 books each for two quarters and then 5 the quarter after that is odd
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Aug 29, 2023 23:26
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:and there are no new armies? The Votann is having it rough as it is, no need to make things worse by replacing them with another new army.
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Aug 29, 2023 23:29
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smug jeebus posted:2 books each for two quarters and then 5 the quarter after that is odd Maybe a workflow/load thing with lots of GW employees working on 10th edition main rules/index lists, with a smaller team working on the first 4 and then as more employees are freed up they can more quickly write the next 5? Or there's something else diabolical going on with other GW game systems, but I get the feeling that the 40K workers don't mingle and work on like AOS stuff. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:cool, so 9 books by spring 2024, call it 11 by midsummer? Out of… 21, assuming that only the chapters that got 9e books get 10e ones (so no ultramarines, iron hands, etc.) and there are no new armies?
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Aug 29, 2023 23:33
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tangy yet delightful posted:Or there's something else diabolical going on with other GW game systems, but I get the feeling that the 40K workers don't mingle and work on like AOS stuff. 10th edition seems to take a lot of cues from Sigmar, which is fine by me
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Aug 29, 2023 23:54
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Improbable Lobster posted:10th edition seems to take a lot of cues from Sigmar, which is fine by me Sort of, but it is missing a few truly key innovations from sigmar, most notably the wound role being an attacker stat - there’s really only two defensive stats in AoS, save and wounds, whereas there are three in 40k and the third one is sometimes the most relevant. Also sigmar doesn’t have characters join units - they function like 9e characters did. In that respect 10e moved farther away from AOS.
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Aug 30, 2023 00:32
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:What I mean is that half of the codices will not be published by summer 2024. I base this on two decades of playing GW games and being familiar with their pace of release. I also believe that armies with codices will be at a significant advantage relative to those without because: My friend speculated that the index armies will keep the free upgrades, while codex armies will have to pay for their poo poo again. Which seems pretty likely IMO.
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Aug 30, 2023 01:58
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Coldbird posted:
Strongly disagree with about half of this list. Moving special rules from the army book to specific datasheets is, in general, simpler by a literal order of magnitude. The ability on a unit's datacard only applies to that specific unit unless it says otherwise, which is much better than the previous framework where every ability applied to every unit and even if it had limitations, you need to scrutinize each unit to see if they were excluded from those limitations. It's X+Y instead of X*Y. What you're noticing now is that you can actually explain all of the things your army does in a reasonable amount of time so you take the time to do so, rather than in 9e where that was hilariously impractical. Even if I handed an unfamiliar opponent a 9e codex, they would probably take longer to get a grasp on what it is my army actually does. It also makes crossreference when playing much easier. 9e weapon rules were not uniform at all. Look at how many different variations on conditional mortal wounds from attacks there were. (Roll to hit or wound? Additional or terminate the sequence? To the model or to the unit?) 10e should've consolidated more but consolidating what they did was a good move, except for how it affected index design. (eg Poorly accounting for the power of DW and blast, not considering how DW and anti- can be layered, overrating Lethal Hits) The fight phase movement rule changes were pretty huge. It's no longer a second movement phase to the degree it once was. Opinions are divided on whether this was a good thing, but it was a major rewrite at a high level of play. Leaders are not too expensive for them to make sense, I don't know what army you play that's making you say this. The only army I can think of where this is true is Demons, and even they like blood throne heralds. GSC, TS, Necrons, AC, GK, and Guard are all running bunches, and CSM, Eldar, DE, Tau, and SM all have some solid value picks they routinely take. (I don't know enough about AM, Votann, SOB, or WE to say.) The main effect of the new rule is changing which characters compete with each other: some characters are always edged out by a better choice (CSM), some lists have some good characters but also a million terrible characters you never want to play (SM), and some lists have interesting characters that only embed in useless and stupid units (demons, DE). Eej posted:Unconditional Rerolls are hard enough to get that people will spend 280 points on Abaddon by himself to babysit Forgefiends for reroll hits aura. CSM has reroll 1s on every unit they want it on and a rr hits/wounds strat they can easily use twice a turn, on top of one semi-meta unit with full hit rerolls and numerous mediocre-to-bad ones with hit/wound rerolls. it's pretty rare that i go a turn without having multiple units rerolling to hit even when i don't run abaddon. this is on top of the extra leadership tests on every unit each turn, a good half of which are rerollable. you're right that people still spend a ton on abaddon to sit in a shooting castle, but CSM does a lot of rerolling. smug jeebus posted:2 books each for two quarters and then 5 the quarter after that is odd GW has old world and LI coming this year, and probably a new edition of AOS next, so that does weird things to the shape i bet
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Aug 30, 2023 02:03
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Devorum posted:I'm not sure how much of this whole post I agree with, but a guy in my scene who loves to meta just started playing Be'Lakor And Friends and holy poo poo it was the least fun matchup I've had in years. Be'Lakor's shadow is just way too strong. 3-5 greater demons with 10-12" fly speeds and a dozen very strong melee attacks each that you can't shoot until they're almost in charge range sucks real bad to play against . I was nodding along with this post until the last sentence swerve where you revealed you were playing the army with almost unkillable infantry bricks.
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Aug 30, 2023 02:07
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moths posted:My friend speculated that the index armies will keep the free upgrades, while codex armies will have to pay for their poo poo again. My friend works at Nintendo and agrees with this
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Aug 30, 2023 07:14
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Eej posted:I was nodding along with this post until the last sentence swerve where you revealed you were playing the army with almost unkillable infantry bricks. Ha, yeah...I kind of expected that. However, my vehicles and Mounted units aren't quite as unkillable and when it's just my bricks left it's hard to score secondaries or prevent the opponent from doing so. Doesn't help that my bricks are slow, so once he realized he simply could not kill my Lychguard he just ignored them. And Shalaxi has precision so she killed off my Technomancer and Overlord on the Warriors. Another shout-out to Shalaxi for killing Nightbringer twice. Cooked Auto posted:The Votann is having it rough as it is, no need to make things worse by replacing them with another new army. Really starting to look like Votann aren't getting any new units until late next year. Such an undercooked army. Anyway, the biggest thing GW could do to streamline and speed up the game is remove Toughness, but they're cowards. It feels so good playing AoS or any other game where that third gate to anything cool happening doesn't exist. Devorum fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 07:27
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Cross-posting from the painting thread.Stephenls posted:They're completely done and varnished! Vallejo Mecha Gloss all over for protection, then Vallejo Mecha Satin all over to bring the shine down, then Vallejo Mecha Matte on just the bases and lower legs because I didn't want satin desert dunes. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 07:30
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New barbagaunt painted! critique welcome!     
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Aug 30, 2023 08:00
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Al-Saqr posted:New barbagaunt painted! critique welcome! Looks good. I like the amount of colors you worked into the scheme without anything looking garish or out of place.
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Aug 30, 2023 08:14
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Devorum posted:Anyway, the biggest thing GW could do to streamline and speed up the game is remove Toughness, but they're cowards. It feels so good playing AoS or any other game where that third gate to anything cool happening doesn't exist. to hit, A, S, T, W, D, and all forms of save and damage reduction are complications to the process of "do i pick this model up or not" and GW could get rid of any or all of them at the cost of less granularity in which attacks are good against which targets T doesn't seem like the best place to do it because you expect a big drat hero knight to be able to stab a dragon or giant or demon in a way you don't quite expect a big drat hero rifleman to shoot a giant robot or superheavy tank
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Aug 30, 2023 09:08
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The problem is that they basically added hit points to the game, like in their newer systems, but they didn't overhaul the shooting mechanics when they did it. A krak missle to the dome used to be "only" one damage because practically everything was one damage, the power of the krak missle was in the strength and AP/save modifier. It was almost like the joke about Dreadnaught: how many HP does a land raider have, one! Now they're in this weird kludgey half step where damage is a wide ranging stat but none of the other steps were changed.
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Aug 30, 2023 13:33
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lemme get this straight: As a new player, if I want to plan and prepare for playing a game, I need to: (1) Download free point values from GW (2) Download free core rules from GW and then (3) somehow intuit there is something called a mission deck, also it’s been recalled (?), maybe a youtuber or pdf or 3rd party app has them? but literally every game will use them and all strategies and tactics and scoring involve them so good luck! do I have that right?
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Aug 30, 2023 13:42
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coelomate posted:lemme get this straight: As a new player, if I want to plan and prepare for playing a game, I need to: Not quite. Combat patrol missions i think are free online, so if you want to play a 500 point game as a new player you literally just need to buy the box. If you're a new player wanting to play "full fat" 40K you need: 1) Core rules (free download or buy a book) 2) The army index (free download for now, you can buy physical datacards) 3) The Munitorum field manual with points (free download) 4) The mission deck (buy a physical copy) The indexes are free for now but you will have to buy them later. The physical datacards have already changed so personally I don't see the value in buying them. The mission deck, as far as I know, hasn't been amended yet (just clarified). The index is what contains your units and stratagems and faction rules. The field manual is just the points, and you don't need to download it if you use the 40K app or battlescribe etc.
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Aug 30, 2023 13:55
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The base indexes are free it's the codex you need to pay for.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:01
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If you're a new player, you can play the basic mission in the free core rules to learn the game before diving into the Leviathan mission deck.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:01
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Kitchner posted:4) The mission deck (buy a physical copy) you cannot buy it, it's on recall due to misprints Jack B Nimble posted:The problem is that they basically added hit points to the game, like in their newer systems, 40K 2e had damage and wounds fwiw
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Aug 30, 2023 14:10
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Welcome to the hobby!
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Aug 30, 2023 14:35
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Cease to Hope posted:40K 2e had damage and wounds fwiw But wounds were on a scale of one to three and were basically extra times you could be killed. Having three wounds isn't the same thing as having 18, or 24.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:47
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Jack B Nimble posted:But wounds were on a scale of one to three and were basically extra times you could be killed. Having three wounds isn't the same thing as having 18, or 24. no. this is just completely wrong. in 2e, characters could have more than three wounds, and monsters had as many as ten. weapons had a damage value, and it could be quite large, with 2d6 on lascannon and 2d12 on multimeltas. 3e ditched all that for one damage unless you had S equal to or greater than twice T, in which case you instakilled. that game had much lower wound totals of course. (vehicles did not use T in these editions, btw, but most monsters did.)
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Aug 30, 2023 15:03
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Cease to Hope posted:no. this is just completely wrong. in 2e, characters could have more than three wounds, and monsters had as many as ten. weapons had a damage value, and it could be quite large, with 2d6 on lascannon and 2d12 on multimeltas. You're right, that's my mistake. I must have memory holed the damage value on heavy weapons, my second edition play time didn't extend beyond some skirmishing with the boxed set before third came out. drat, there's some wild damage numbers in here. 
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Aug 30, 2023 15:07
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Man what if they actually announce space hulk in 9 hours
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Aug 30, 2023 15:16
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Al-Saqr posted:Man what if they actually announce space hulk in 9 hours I would laugh when I think about when I bought my copy of Space Hulk all the staff were saying its probably never going to be made again and remember people buying like 4 copies saying it will be worth 8 times as much in the future.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:23
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/30/the-hive-mind-speaks-how-the-warhammer-studio-updated-classic-tyranids/ Speaking of nids, mostly linking this interview because they show off how the new Lictors are assembled. 
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Aug 30, 2023 16:26
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coelomate posted:lemme get this straight: As a new player, if I want to plan and prepare for playing a game, I need to: You are not alone in the confusion/frustration. To top it off, GW insists on using bizarre names for everything. It isn't an "Army point list index" it is "Munitorum Field Manual" which is the least intuitive name ever. I seem to remember this trend starting around 3rd edition. While the rules/points for your faction were in each codex, you still had sections that required you to page over to discover the points for whatever piece of wargear. That was right around the time I stopped for a good while. Now, I have the rules, the unit cards (no points on them), a different index for points, a sheet of army rules, mission rules, and stratagems. (I think that is everything?) While I love the fact that there are PDFs available (and, in theory, they will stay "updated" with the various changes), I would prefer that they combined the points index with the unit cards. I feel like these changes are meant to drive users towards the official app, which I have to say isn't that great (like hell will I pay for that).
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Aug 30, 2023 16:26
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Al-Saqr posted:Man what if they actually announce space hulk in 9 hours That would be something, although, I hate to say it, I think GW needs to cool it on some of the auxiliary products. I think it would benefit them to focus their efforts on their core games right now, especially 40k and balance and rules issues. Not to mention some of the production issues they had, although I am not sure if those have been alleviated by the Leviathan launch.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:11
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We are a bit overdue on a new Warhammer Quest game though. So it might be dropped there as Warhammer Quest: Space Hulk or something. Or it'd just be the new Terminator and Genestealer models with some cardboard terrain.  My prediction is that the 40k section will be all about space marines and their codex. To make up for them now showing up in the last reveal stream because they lost.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:20
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Cooked Auto posted:My prediction is that the 40k section will be all about space marines and their codex. To make up for them now showing up in the last reveal stream because they lost. This is almost certainly what it is.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:24
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can't wait to see the new Primaris Interlopers, Primaris Intracators, and the Primaris Infracaptors
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Aug 30, 2023 17:26
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Yeah, I fully expect them to try to hype up a bunch of goofy looking Primaris models that all do something regular marines do, but slightly better.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:30
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There’s all melta, all plasma and all flamer primaris squads so it’s grav’s turn in the spotlight!
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Aug 30, 2023 17:34
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:can't wait to see the new Primaris Interlopers, Primaris Intracators, and the Primaris Infracaptors You know it is the start of Fall when you see the first Primaris Spice Latte being advertised.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:38
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