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The politicization of vaccines is having further downstream impacts on people's beliefs in vaccine effectiveness for dogs now. 53% of dog owners now have doubts and concerns about the safety, efficacy, and necessity of vaccines for their dogs. The increase in vaccine hesitancy for dogs tracks almost 1:1 with skepticism of the Covid-19 vaccine and skyrocketed in the last three years. 37% now have concerns that vaccinating their dogs may cause cognitive problems or autism. https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1696632826341273974 quote:Majority of US dog owners now skeptical of vaccines, including for rabies: study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X23010150?dgcid=author#preview-section-snippets Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 19:26
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i can't even remember, how did covid vaccine hesitancy become a mainstream part of the rightwing beliefs? i remember trump being non-committal, but not vocally hostile. was it just voices like alex jones getting no strong opposition from other right wing figures?
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Aug 30, 2023 19:34
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i can't even remember, how did covid vaccine hesitancy become a mainstream part of the rightwing beliefs? i remember trump being non-committal, but not vocally hostile. was it just voices like alex jones getting no strong opposition from other right wing figures? It was a combination of: - The vaccines started becoming available right after Biden was inaugurated, so you can't trust them. - Biden implementing vaccine mandates. Resisting them is resisting tyranny. - Strong emphasis on Covid not being a big deal under Trump. That meant that there was no reason to get a vaccine and if they are pushing you so hard to get an unnecessary vaccine, then there must be some ulterior motive. - Existing anti-vaccine skepticism that conservative media tapped into.
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Aug 30, 2023 19:38
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i can't even remember, how did covid vaccine hesitancy become a mainstream part of the rightwing beliefs? i remember trump being non-committal, but not vocally hostile. was it just voices like alex jones getting no strong opposition from other right wing figures? Russian propaganda is my bet. Who else has an interest in turning America into a divided garbage heap with half the country living as typhoid Mary. It's not really in the GOP's interest to encourage their voters to increase the chances of removing themselves from the electorate yet here we are. Now not only are people refusing to covid vaccines but we're getting a resurgence of diseases that had been effectively eradicated. Honestly a biological attack would be devastating because half of our population would deem it a hoax and ignore any evidence to the contrary.
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Aug 30, 2023 19:50
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i can't even remember, how did covid vaccine hesitancy become a mainstream part of the rightwing beliefs? i remember trump being non-committal, but not vocally hostile. was it just voices like alex jones getting no strong opposition from other right wing figures? I feel like even before covid, the right was getting more and more anti-vax. Rand Paul is a good example, but remember that even Trump used to love tweeting about vaccines causing autism, and did at least one event with RFK Jr back in the day. There were also the arguments against the HPV vaccine, claiming it encouraged promiscuity in young women. And then covid just massively accelerated the whole thing.
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Aug 30, 2023 19:52
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I think by the time the covid vaccines hit, Russia didn't need to do any propaganda to get Republicans to avoid the vaccine like the plague (pun intended). I think Trump had done a good job schisming the people enough that by the time vaccines were available, the cultists were firmly in the "gently caress the Dems" mode.
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Aug 30, 2023 19:58
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Another contributor were the nests of antivaxxers and grifters who took the opportunity to spread their ideas to people who were suddenly very distrustful of the healthcare system. Like, ivermectin didn't come out of nowhere, it's been a crank remedy for all kinds of crap forever.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:01
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Plus there's just a baked in level of contrarianism in the fascist mindset. If a fash sees people doing something and having fun, or sees something happening to help people, they cannot help but poo poo all over it for no discernible reason other than to appeal to their extremely weird sense of moral superiority about everything, all the time.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:12
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i can't even remember, how did covid vaccine hesitancy become a mainstream part of the rightwing beliefs? i remember trump being non-committal, but not vocally hostile. was it just voices like alex jones getting no strong opposition from other right wing figures? An effective response from the federal government is contrary to conservative goals, be it vaccines, security trade enforcement, EPA guidelines, public schools, libraries, mass transit or even self filing taxes. If people can trust their government and their community then it's harder to make the government bad argument that drives the push for privatization. Push back against vaccines is another side of the same coin that is stirring poo poo about trans kids in school.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:19
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Plus there's just a baked in level of contrarianism in the fascist mindset. If a fash sees people doing something and having fun, or sees something happening to help people, they cannot help but poo poo all over it for no discernible reason other than to appeal to their extremely weird sense of moral superiority about everything, all the time. Yeah, and vaccines somehow got lib-coded - despite being developed under Their Guy - a lot of conservative politicians went from strong pro-vax (because they realized that was the only realistic path towards Open Biden) and got wrong-footed when their base turned out to be virus-denying maniacs. Trump could've cut this off at the knees by doing what every other public official in the world did, which was get publicly vaccinated, but then he'd have to take off his suit and people might think he's not 215 lbs.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:24
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One other aspect is that Trump legitimized selfishness as a political concept. Republican ideology was already fundamentally selfish, but Trump showed that you could get away with brazen, public selfishness and Republican voters loved him for it and felt emboldened to double-down on it themselves. For many people, getting vaccinated is in the same camp as wearing a facemask as an unbearable imposition on their freedoms by the government and a surrender to the concept that you need to care about other people. And selfishness is such a fundamental part of Republicanism that even when Trump himself was telling people to get vaccinated it was unacceptable. Plus they just hate the government and innately want to disobey anything it tells them to do.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:31
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Politico article notes this and I have said this a few times, but I am legitimately surprised that there is basically no official healthcare or TAX policy platforms from any of the Republican candidates. Promises of big tax cuts seem like an easy lay up for an applause line in a stump speech. Previously, a signature tax cut plan was the first thing they put out (9-9-9, Bush tax cuts, Trump tax cuts, flat tax, fair tax, eliminating the income tax, Romney's idea to raise taxes on the 47% of "takers," etc.) Vivek does have a tax proposal. I'm just gonna quote it directly from Vivek's 2024 campaign website, because no summary or paraphrase can do this justice: quote:WRONG. Vivek supports a 12% flat tax across the board, while eliminating cronyist deductions and loopholes. If you're done laughing and/or cringing at that, this style seems to be the new meta among GOP campaign websites. DeSantis similarly has tax policy talk buried away on a page titled Declaration of Economic Independence, where he rants about China and illegal immigration and DC politicians for a few pages, then brags about Florida's economy for a couple of pages, then finally starts outlining his actual policies (which, when it comes to taxes, are mostly extremely boring and generic vague tropes like "simplify the tax code" and "more competitive tax system"). As for Trump, he doesn't really need a tax proposal. He already has the Trump Tax Cuts, and those expire in 2025 so he can just run on extending them.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:31
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Politico and Reuters with some minor updates to the marijuana rescheduling news: - The rescheduling will also allow marijuana companies to go public and be listed on major stock exchanges, as well as allow foreign marijuana producers to sell in America (for medical purposes only under current law). quote:If marijuana classification were to ease at the federal level, that could allow major stock exchanges to list businesses that are in the cannabis trade, and potentially allow foreign companies to begin selling their products in the United States. - It will also dramatically change the tax status and banking limitations on marijuana businesses and growers. quote:The response to the news from the cannabis industry was ebullient. - The DEA review period will likely take at least 90 days and the results announced in late 2023 or early 2024, but there is no official timeline. https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ews-2023-08-30/ https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/30/marijuana-review-move-to-schedule-iii-00113493
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Aug 30, 2023 20:33
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Main Paineframe posted:Vivek does have a tax proposal. I'm just gonna quote it directly from Vivek's 2024 campaign website, because no summary or paraphrase can do this justice: I guess Vivek is at least semi-specific in that he is laying out a specific rate, but when I say a detailed or specific tax plan, I wasn't considering stuff like this: quote:Vivek supports a 12% flat tax across the board, while eliminating cronyist deductions and loopholes. to count as "specific" or "detailed" policies. "Eliminate cronyist loopholes" and set the tax rate to 12% isn't really an actually specific or detailed plan. Also, very strange that it is in a "truth vs myth" section of the website dedicated to "Addressing the BS, baloney, lies, and planted trash 🗑️ peddled by insecure campaigns, Super PAC puppets, “listless vessels” of the political establishment, and fake establishment media" and not an actual policy section. For all of Trump's foibles, he did actually have a detailed plan for what the Trump tax cuts would look like when he ran for office. He doesn't have one for 2024. The closest thing Vivek has to a policy page is just a page labelled "TRUTH" with only this written on it: quote:God is real. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 20:37
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The Republican party is getting very conspiratorial and while Trump would probably have been happy to talk about the beautiful Trump Vaccines, he was busy denying the election results (and it's unclear that it would have mattered anyway). I think the root cause is that more and more funding for Republican causes comes from scam artists and evangelicals.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Politico and Reuters with some minor updates to the marijuana rescheduling news: This would be great because hopefully it would lead to allowing dispensaries to take cards and bank accounts. I've got a billion of them within a 5 mile radius and we've already had multiple robbery attempts (luckily just attempts since they're locked down like Fort Knox)
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Aug 30, 2023 20:55
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Nephthys posted:One other aspect is that Trump legitimized selfishness as a political concept. Republican ideology was already fundamentally selfish, but Trump showed that you could get away with brazen, public selfishness and Republican voters loved him for it and felt emboldened to double-down on it themselves. For many people, getting vaccinated is in the same camp as wearing a facemask as an unbearable imposition on their freedoms by the government and a surrender to the concept that you need to care about other people. And selfishness is such a fundamental part of Republicanism that even when Trump himself was telling people to get vaccinated it was unacceptable. Yep. The main takeaway to The Covid Experience for a lot of Republicans was that being asked to suffer even the slightest inconvenience for any reason (but especially for the sake of other people) is intolerable tyranny.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The politicization of vaccines is having further downstream impacts on people's beliefs in vaccine effectiveness for dogs now. The article presents it as "some concern" as if that tells you anything at all. "Some concern" could indicate anything from "I wonder if there are side effects we don't know about because dogs can't talk, though obviously it's worth it" to...well, I was going to use "they turn dogs autistic" as my comedy example...
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Aug 30, 2023 21:00
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I guess Vivek is at least semi-specific in that he is laying out a specific rate, but when I say a detailed or specific tax plan, I wasn't considering stuff like this: "There are three branches of the U.S. government, not four." Uh, yeah? What's this one supposed to be dogwhistling?
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Aug 30, 2023 21:05
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12% is bs. thats 2% more than 10-10-10. man that 10-10-10 guy was great, he should run again and give that great deal again.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:07
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RBA Starblade posted:"There are three branches of the U.S. government, not four." The media is sometimes referred to as "the fourth estate." I'm guessing that's what he's referring to.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:10
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PhazonLink posted:man that 10-10-10 guy was great, he should run again and give that great deal again. I’d almost forgotten Cain died of covid because he refused to wear masks to support Trump.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:14
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RBA Starblade posted:"There are three branches of the U.S. government, not four." The fourth branch is supposed to be the administrative state. It's an attempt to frame mass deregulation as obedience to higher constitutional principles. He's pretending to be too dumb to understand that those administrators are part of the executive branch. Judgy Fucker posted:The media is sometimes referred to as "the fourth estate." I'm guessing that's what he's referring to. No, Vivek has been clear about it being the administrative state other places.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:14
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Oh, I should have guessed it was along those lines. Thanks lol
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Aug 30, 2023 21:21
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Don't some of them have positions on abortion? Or mandatory gun ownership for toddlers?
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Aug 30, 2023 21:22
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Zwabu posted:Don't some of them have positions on abortion? Or mandatory gun ownership for toddlers? None of them do on their website. Getting them to give a clear and definitive position on abortion has been surprisingly difficult this election cycle. Even Mike Pence is waffling around on specifics.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:30
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I’d almost forgotten Cain died of covid because he refused to wear masks to support Trump. There's a whole subreddit dedicated to it.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:34
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i can't even remember, how did covid vaccine hesitancy become a mainstream part of the rightwing beliefs? i remember trump being non-committal, but not vocally hostile. was it just voices like alex jones getting no strong opposition from other right wing figures? The alternative medicine and snake oil industries bit hard on COVID. By the time COVID vaccines first became widely available, everything from ivermectin to bleach enemas had already been circulating through conspiracy Facebook as potential COVID cures, and antivax Republicans like Ron Johnson had already been using their position to promote such treatments from the floor of Congress. On top of that, there were many political figures who didn't want to want to wait until the vaccine was ready. Once the vaccine finally came out at the end of 2020, Trump was happy to take credit for it, but during the first COVID summer he wasn't quite that patient. By early April 2020, he was promoting hydroxychloroquine as a cure for COVID. By late April 2020, he was suggesting injecting disinfectant and shining UV light inside the body. And of course, he was quite insistent that the vaccine was unnecessary and there was absolutely no way we were going to have to wait for it. He was desperate to find a plausible COVID cure that was already available so he could have the pandemic all wrapped up before election season. As summer dragged on, he actively minimized the dangers of COVID, insisting that testing was just inflating the numbers and that school closures were just a political measure by the Dems. With the vaccines unlikely to be done before the election, he was inclined to smear them and instead point the focus on other potential remedies, and when no remedies were forthcoming he shifted to minimizing COVID itself as not a big deal. It was clearly politically-motivated more than anything. It was only when late summer/early fall rolled around with no successful COVID cure that he suddenly started actively promoting the vaccine, which he confidently stated would be done before November 3rd. But all those months of rhetoric against vaccines and against taking COVID seriously had a lasting effect. They percolated down into the right-wing media ecosystem, and the people who bought into that stuff didn't change their opinions again when he changed his rhetoric. And as the election approached and polls started to look increasingly dim (particularly because he'd spent months telling all his followers that vote-by-mail was fake), he changed tactics again, decrying COVID measures as a Democratic plot to sabotage the election by discouraging Republicans from voting.   Given his constantly changing rhetoric on COVID, it's no surprise that he spawned a wide variety of conspiracy theories among his base. Those conspiracy theories happily adopted snake oil salesmen, existing antivaxxer groups, and various angry conservatives still actively resentful at business closures and school closures, and grew into full-on vaccine denialism.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:34
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Zwabu posted:Don't some of them have positions on abortion? Or mandatory gun ownership for toddlers? I'm pretty sure those are defined simply by them running as Republicans.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:34
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Zwabu posted:Don't some of them have positions on abortion? Not that they can say, because the position that they have to take to win a primary is the one that will lose them the general.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:38
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PhazonLink posted:12% is bs. thats 2% more than 10-10-10. Are you talking about Cain's 9-9-9 deal? Is this the result of Bidenflation?
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Aug 30, 2023 21:40
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Randalor posted:I'm pretty sure those are defined simply by them running as Republicans. No, republicans have a bit of a problem because lots are calling for a federal ban, but then there are the states rights people opposed to the federal government doing anything. After Kansas, republicans are rightly cautious while they take the temperature of the base
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Aug 30, 2023 21:48
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Man that video of McConnell got me the closest to feeling bad for who is in the running for one of the most evil living human beings. He is just so clearly not well, confused and having an episode. The most clear moment in realizing this is an 80 year old man who is as fragile as any other person. Anyway, I hope he retires soon and the leadership of the Senate Republicans goes to someone significantly less capable.
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Aug 30, 2023 21:54
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Mike N Eich posted:Man that video of McConnell got me the closest to feeling bad for who is in the running for one of the most evil living human beings. He is just so clearly not well, confused and having an episode. The most clear moment in realizing this is an 80 year old man who is as fragile as any other person. Naw let him suffer. Kentucky will elect someone awful to replace him anyway.
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Aug 30, 2023 22:01
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Mike N Eich posted:Man that video of McConnell got me the closest to feeling bad for who is in the running for one of the most evil living human beings. He is just so clearly not well, confused and having an episode. The most clear moment in realizing this is an 80 year old man who is as fragile as any other person. I can only go as far as having sympathy for the many elderly folks generally who have to deal with serious and sometimes crippling health issues - unlike that man who spent his entire career ensuring their suffering would be untreated, more expensive, and generally worse. A man who spent decades attacking public healthcare, social security, and veterans benefits clearly held no sympathy for anyone who was sick or elderly. His health condition is merely a visible reminder of his ethical wrongdoings and the many Americans who have suffered because of his actions. Kaal fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 22:02
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Mike N Eich posted:Man that video of McConnell got me the closest to feeling bad for who is in the running for one of the most evil living human beings. He is just so clearly not well, confused and having an episode. The most clear moment in realizing this is an 80 year old man who is as fragile as any other person. I feel compassion and not pity for anyone who suffers mental maladies, especially out of old age. It's largely out of our control. But Mitch McConnell has worked very hard and earned my enmity. He's made it his life's mission to make the lives of other people worse for a profit percentage for big businesses. I hope he enjoys senility. He is the scorpion in the parable of the scorpion and the frog. "But now we will both drown!" "But it is in my nature, to gently caress the poor."
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Aug 30, 2023 22:08
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I feel compassion and not pity for anyone who suffers mental maladies, especially out of old age. It's largely out of our control. I just don't like looking at people who feel like they might die soon, it unsettles me. I feel like I am gawking at something I wouldn't want anyone else to see.
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Aug 30, 2023 22:15
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Imagine ever feeling bad for Mitch loving McConnell. I hope he shits his pants and dies on live camera.
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Aug 30, 2023 22:22
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Dubar posted:No, republicans have a bit of a problem because lots are calling for a federal ban, but then there are the states rights people opposed to the federal government doing anything. After Kansas, republicans are rightly cautious while they take the temperature of the base Do these people even exist, or are they just for "states rights" when Democrats have control of the federal government?
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Aug 30, 2023 22:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:Absolutely insane that the crazy Libs of TikTok lady has not faced any criminal penalties or anything for repeatedly encouraging bomb threats all over the nation. She seems pretty safe considering what's happened because of her the last 12 months. I don't think anybody will actually attempt to prosecute her. She probably has a lot of important people telling her exactly how to post at this point. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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