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Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
I find it very hard to care about the management aspect of the HoloHouse considering you can rake in crazy amounts of money playing AZKi or Irys

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K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot
If you get the best rid, the fish distribution becomes much more equal.

Also fishing is pretty insane money. Easy 150k+ in the time a run takes, more if you fish well.

K8.0 fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Sep 2, 2023

Red Minjo
Oct 20, 2010

Out of the houses, which is the most blue?

The answer might not be be obvious at first.

Gravy Boat 2k

Azran posted:

Bunch of people on the Steam forums are complaining the new patch made characters a bit weaker and leveling much slower. I hadn't really played more than a single run of HoT before this patch so I can't really say personally

Yeah, the exp amulet was changed so it has diminishing effects until 70? 60? where it stops completely, and the bonus exp gain from completing achievements was lowered so much that even with two classes and a stage worth of new achievements, the fully capped out total bonus is much smaller than before.

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

yeah, very few characters benefit much from defense items.

There's an argument for raw draintank, I think. My second spoopy castle hardmode run, and my first over 5 minutes, was a clear thanks to just indexing jingiskan/nurse horn/band-aid. But it's not to let you wade in dudes, it's to turn 'you got hit for a second, here's -150hp' from a 5-minute problem to a 5-second problem.

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...

The item that revives you 3 times is the best one in the game by an extremely large margin, I believe.

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
Unless you're expected to go there with fully maxed out passives, I don't think it's actually possible to unlock the Sorceress in this patch lol

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

The new HoT patch definitely feels like an over-correction. It was possible to basically become invincible before, where just walking directly into bosses wasn't dangerous, and I think they wanted to put a stop to that, but this is just absurd. Defense items feel completely pointless, since everything does so much damage that they barely have any effect. Especially blocking.

Nerfing the XP amulet is a good idea, it completely outclasses any other option in that spot, but they didn't go far enough. Should just remove it from the game, and keep the old XP bonus from achievements.

Both new characters are really bad! Especially the one wtih the pet dog, the AI for that just seems completely busted, and their spear attack is awful. It's so unbelievably slow, and piercing through everything doesn't make up for that. It's like a much, much shittier archer.

Jusupov
May 24, 2007
only text

Begemot posted:

Both new characters are really bad! Especially the one wtih the pet dog, the AI for that just seems completely busted, and their spear attack is awful. It's so unbelievably slow, and piercing through everything doesn't make up for that. It's like a much, much shittier archer.

I had a good time with the dog just standing still in the viaduct while doing all the spirit warrior damage achievements. They absolutely shredded the bosses.

Got three spirits up but just the one dog :(

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

Begemot posted:

It was possible to basically become invincible before, where just walking directly into bosses wasn't dangerous, and I think they wanted to put a stop to that, but this is just absurd.

If slow leveling and limiting player power is your jam you might want to consider a different genre.

Mover
Jun 30, 2008


I wish it was more clear what you need to be doing to raise agony. I can consistently clear the new ice level with agony turned on, but can’t get it above one.

On the other halls I always hit 3-4 just by playing normally

Onean
Feb 11, 2010

Maiden in white...
You are not one of us.
I haven't played since early in the beta release of it, but I believe it's mostly a matter of killing enemies quickly. If you don't kill quick enough, the decay of the bar isn't counteracted.

Taking damage might also contribute, but I wasn't sure how other than I wasn't getting as high on runs where I wound up with low health. It might just have been them being bad runs, though.

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?

Azran posted:

Unless you're expected to go there with fully maxed out passives, I don't think it's actually possible to unlock the Sorceress in this patch lol

Turns out I just needed to make a good build, who knew! :v: Got an absurd crit archer build that managed to finish 1.5 million damage on Splinters and Ringblade, 3 million on Transfixion and crit 50.000 times in one run all in one go lol Ended up with 7 million main weapon damage

serefin99
Apr 15, 2016

Mikoooon~
Your lovely shrine maiden fox wife, Tamamo no Mae, is here to help!

Mailer posted:

If slow leveling and limiting player power is your jam you might want to consider a different genre.

I think there's something to be said if an item/weapon/skill/whatever is too overtuned, but overall yeah I agree, a good portion of the appeal for these games is to be a power fantasy.

Holocure, sadly, hit a similar snag. The recent update hit every collab with a huge damage nerf, even ones that were already considered to be subpar, so now a lot of people are crunching the numbers and finding it better to just run a bunch of normal weapons rather than trying to max out on collabs.

Swilo
Jun 2, 2004
ANIME SUCKS HARD
:dukedog:

Mailer posted:

If slow leveling and limiting player power is your jam you might want to consider a different genre.

head on over to the diablo 4 thread

ullerrm
Dec 31, 2012

Oh, the network slogan is true -- "watch FOX and be damned for all eternity!"

serefin99 posted:

I think there's something to be said if an item/weapon/skill/whatever is too overtuned, but overall yeah I agree, a good portion of the appeal for these games is to be a power fantasy.

Agreed. It's one thing to have a slow-burn game that ramps up to something ridiculous through meta-progression, but you still need to be ridiculous by the end. The most recent HOT patch removed pretty much all power fantasy from the game.

In particular, the ice area on agony runs is really unforgiving for melee characters; you can have maxed out blessings and good gear and good RNG on spells/level-up rewards, and still feel like you're barely scraping by with agony seemingly stuck on 0.

I knocked out the new blessings for multihit and frost damage (and the spirit warrior bits -- that thing is way better than I expected) but after that I'm putting it down for a bit and playing other stuff until the devs rebalance some things.

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?
Since HoT is determined to Gonna Be Like That(c), any general tips for Boneraiser? I'm just rolling through it with unlocks at the moment but I have NFI what to do with skips/rerolls since literally everything feels equal to me until the game gets too fast for my movement and I die. In the process of maxing the second class now...

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Focus on a clear plan with offense and defense based on your class and what you like to use. Then learn kiting fundamentals.

Clear Offense: There's Melee, Ranged or Magic. Don't mistake one for the other because getting 3/3 Sniper scope won't help three demon warlocks. Don't waste max HP on demon artifacts unless you're familiar with the gains or are Demonologist. Little optimizations like that, don't dilute your damage output.

Pick Boners you like and get them to level 3, then use soul pick ups to make two demons. If you have three demon swordsmen and +heal on melee kills you have good synergy. Now you can use a soul to make a big demon swordsman. In general evolutions leap ahead on the power curve, or you want a big demon guy before you want even six level 2s farting around. Then optimize for that strength: calf donations go very far on a melee army! Remember that eventually you'll always be kiting for sheer life unless you're fighting Gigald.

I'm biased towards Auger because Demon Auger Haste benefits you too but you want an offensive synergy because one slot(3-4 levels) to make *every* level you take stronger is good math. This is Auger or Witch, or Bros, or even utility like Tangler. Consider having a source of AoE that can help gradually kill everything as you kite a crowd(Big Boo(b)s, Big Flames, Mushrooms.)

Meldus are strong but their ratio is harsher. You can kill yourself easily rushing Big Lad, who is 12 boners(3+1 three times) plus souls of cost. Also spending a 3+3 instead of a 3+1 is not optimal so try to avoid it. Giants are generally good. Get giants if you want, get Meldus when you aren't struggling or are in easy levels and then rebolster the ranks, or if you're far enough ahead that your horde is huge.

If you're unsure of if you're ahead of the curve be aware that chests and miners are a slight handicap. Their DPS isn't as good(or absent) but they improve your score with loot! The big chest bro rules though.

Your game plan changes if you are Beastmaster or Dollmaker but the "big guys beat small guys, get synergizing buffs" idea remains. Dollmaker has the easiest haste aura in the game, for example. Beastmaster evos dramatically outdo their component mooks.

---

Big Defense is simply using your class innate ability to heal and grow max HP, I believe everybody has one now. You can't skip Demon Eyes on Cyclops for example, if you are at 100 max HP late in the round then you will die to a pink or gold enemy. Instant death. You want 300+ HP eventually and the more the better. You *need* healing too and I don't just mean your passive meta regen. Every class can raise Max HP fruit and bees with architecture, bees feed steady heals and max HP.

Certain defensive relics are the best, period. Dash enhancers(boots, mushroom) or the bottle fairy(if you have 1000 HP you now have 2000, just gets better the better you do!) There's also the new Monk Guy and the Ward Medallion, though removing 15-30% of incoming damage won't matter if your HP and Heals are low.

Defense is why you can't follow a rigid build order. You can't just rush three demon swordsmen, a demon Auger and demon Tangler might make you live ten times longer. The Tangler provides constant snare in a huge area and frequent heals, Auger hastes *you* too, etc. Use the defensives you like. I personally find healing bro hard to use, he's slower than you while you're kiting. But use what suits you above all.

Boneraiser is superbly balanced, you can argue for using a big demon or three small demons(Witch, Tangler, Auger are all force multipliers) and so on. Experiment until you got a winning strat and there's rng so sometimes you gotta flex.

I dunno where else to say it but some optimizations include getting a merchant bell if the merchant offers it(he'll sell you other stuff more often), always trying beggar sales(gold is meaningless after enough playtime), aggressively rerolling and sealing and banishing unless you need the rerolls for passive stats, etc. And everything I tell you is the same for Necrotic mode you just have a harsher time limit.

---

To be the best Bonerlord you must learn to dash and pass through enemies efficiently. You cannot evade all damage. That's why you need high HP and consistent healing to avoid death by a thousand cuts. Even then you need to pay attention to enemy spawns.

Did you know crows deal almost no contact damage? If you're surrounded by golds, dash into and then dash out of a crow blob, or non colored enemies, or etc. If you have to deal with a dangerous enemy, dash at the last second going through them in the opposite direction. I died a lot in early runs accidentally dashing the same direction as a cannonball.. minimize the damage and go heal!

Your spell management counts for a lot too. You either have get out of jail free cards or you don't. Some spells spit damage out but damage gets outscaled. Turning half the map into your allies or yourself into a snowman is always good. There's also the "every enemy has 1 HP" spell that'll kill virtually everything but golds. I burn non emergency spells as fast as I can and save 1-2 lifesavers.

Bosses use set patterns that are very reliable. Learn to dodge them and you can go infinite even if your DPS is low. If you get caught then do the same, minimize time spent contacting(ronin shuriken are brutal if you walk with them...) and reach safety. Healing is penalized for bosses. It can refresh and happen but is far slower, so you want to enter Gigald with full HP. You can save max HP architecture fruit respawns for right before Gigald once you're familiar with the timing!

Fiddle with opacity and enemy outlines until you stop dying to visual overload mistakes.

But above all, I dash good. If you're on keyboard use a joystick.

Rambling from a world first boner...

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Sep 4, 2023

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

I believe begger sales also have a tell on which, if any, items are duds. If the item is off-color, probably the dud of the lot.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Man, Hard 3 on Holocure is hard, I've only beaten it with like... 4 characters so far. And all of them save IRyS took multiple runs.

Mailer
Nov 4, 2009

Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

Doomykins posted:

Rambling from a world first boner...

Much obliged. Spells I actively suck at because literally everything is new (although finally ???s are rare) so I can't sight read them and don't know what most do anyway. I was really wondering on lots of little guys vs fewer big chonkers so that's that mystery solved. So far, at least according to stats, the most damaging guys in every run I can get them are the flame dudes, but witches/tanglers are the ones I feel the most when playing.

Right now I'm trying to fill up on demons with either the basic melee units or archers, then get a tangler/witch, then get a flamey boy. Of course it's all random and I don't have all the rerolls in the world yet so that never works out. :v:

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
New week, new Boneraiser patch. Newest feature is an Action Cam setting but I haven't tried it yet. Here's the important bits from the patch notes:

quote:

I also went through all the various Class Heritage meta adding numbers to a lot of their effects so you know exactly what their benefits are (eg so will say "boosts Attack Speed by +5%" instead of just "slightly boosts Attack Speed").

//misc changes
- Liche Necromancer class: A new meta has been added called 'Bone Banisher' which gives +1 minion Banish each time you raise a fresh Skelly minion you haven't raised before (useful for Banishing all those level 2 upgrades).
- Vampire Survivor class: Blood Invigoration meta: The Running Speed reduction when you have less than 50 Health has been removed (couldn't fit it in the new description).
- Sprout Brotatoes class - Brotraption Waterer meta: The contraption regrowth rate has been increased to +100% (the old +50% felt a bit naff).
- Imp Contraptineer class - Murderous Traps meta: The contraption Damage has been increased to +100% (the old +50% felt a bit naff).
- Behemoth Miner minion: When boneraising this item now won't be overwritten by a regular Giant or Behemoth Barrower offering.
- Tamed Werewolf Prince / Immortis Necarch minion: To boneraise these now require 2 of their base minions and 2 of their upgraded minions (instead of 3 upgraded minions, so they conform more with the other Soul minions).
- Boning Totem / Cadaver Coffin contraptions: These can now regrow after being used (though the regrowth rate is very slow so is only relevant if you have something like a Watering Can relic).
-
Card Catcher spell: This now works differently in that it now has a lingering effect based on the spell cast Power level and will turn enemies into either a Clashful Card for that enemy if available otherwise it simply destroys them.
- Curse of Wrath: When this curse is triggered it will also spawn the usual set of Bees from any Honeycomb Beehive contraptions.

Card Catcher keeps getting reworked lol Also goddamn that Beast Whisperer buff

lagidnam
Nov 8, 2010
HoT devs seem to have gotten the message. New patch is out:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2218750/view/3667673377628253909?l=english

quote:

Settings
added configurable keyboard bindings
added opacity setting for player ability effects

Difficulties of Ember Grounds and Forgotten Viaduct
reduced damage dealt by enemies with special movement patterns or high movement speed
reduced damage from enemy projectiles

Frozen Depths Difficulty
reduced damage dealt by regular enemies
reduced health of regular enemies
increased enemy spawn count for regular enemies
reduced agony decrease rate on each enemy, since monsters take longer to reach the player's screen edge on Frozen Depths

Frozen Depth Bosses
reduced trigger distance for ranged attacks to avoid player getting off-screened
made projectile based attack patterns of bosses less frustrating
slower movement
less dense patterns
smaller damage areas
...

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

I'm surprised there's no exp buff because I just got an effortless lvl 116 on Frozen Depths and I wasn't even wearing the xp neck

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
Did 4 million damage with the Norseman's axes and I was still 9000 hits short from unlocking the challenge lol Same with killing 5k enemies with the frost effect, despite maxing it out first Frost Avalance only did 800k damage and killed 400 enemies with the proc

Jusupov
May 24, 2007
only text
Axe hits is one of the few challenges that can still be done with the ghost wall. I think I had 10 minutes left when I got it

ullerrm
Dec 31, 2012

Oh, the network slogan is true -- "watch FOX and be damned for all eternity!"


Everything on Frozen Depths is still a bullet sponge, and bosses still move fast as gently caress.

Also, the patch appears to have a save corruption issue -- a bunch of people in the Steam forums are reporting that they get all quests completed (and every achievement) but then deletes all your equipment and bottles.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Soul Survivors, which is a decent, if light, offering, rebranded to "Keeper's Toll" today. NOT Soulstone Survivors (which is probably what precipitated the rebrand)

quote:

Being branded as a VS clone does not do us justice. We are not trying to be VS. We are trying to be Keeper's Toll. We take a slower paced, more skill based approach to the gameplay, we have a heavier focus on unique character classes and our plan is and has always been to build an ARPG/Roguelite hybrid with some survivor elements thrown in the mix.

Eh, I'd say Nordic Ashes is doing that a bit better -or at least more - but Keeper's Toll has a better art style and gameplay, imo.

zoux fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Sep 8, 2023

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2066020/view/3674429505806876170?l=english

big soulstone survivors update

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
So God of Weapons came out. I picked it up on a whim because a negative review said it was a poo poo game in the same way Brotato was a poo poo game, and that sounded like one hell of a ringing endorsement to me! It's essentially an alternate take on Brotato. Just won my first run and here are some general observations:

- It's essentially a Brotato-like. There's a single map, five difficulty levels, rounds last between 30 seconds to a minute and a half, enemies spawn until the timer runs out. Stats are basically the same, weapon types have passive effects which are boosted if you wield multiple weapons of that type, etc. It's different enough that it's not an outright clone (and I prefer some of the stuff it does way better) but the inspiration is clear. It's NOT an Early Access game, which was pretty wild to see.

- The main gimmick is the inventory system - think Resident Evil 4. Leveling up gives you extra slots and weapons and items take up different amounts of slots. Items provide buffs or get buffed according to proximity (so for example a sword might get extra damage per sword in the inventory, while throwing daggers get extra attack speed per adjacent throwing dagger). The character I played had a 2x1 starting item that buffed attack speed of any weapon it touched. So in-between levels you'll be doing some mild inventory tetris to optimize bonuses and it's pretty fun (you can move a single item out of your inventory while shuffling things around).

- The shop works the same as Brotato and weapons have rarities but you don't improve them by buying multiples as far as I saw. There's a lot of items and weapons but cash isn't really an issue so rerolling is incentivized (the real limitation is inventory space). Some you unlock through metacurrency, others through challenges (which also give meta progression items).

- You have a dash like in Soulstone Survivors and later levels spawn enemies with projectiles or agile attacks but it doesn't get anywhere near as absurd as in SS in terms of required dodging.

- Meta-progression is very minor, it's akin to Battle Grid in that you have stuff like +1-5 to Melee Damage, +1 to starting item rarity, +extra gold, etc. Seemed pretty reasonable all considered, not an endless grind. The stuff you use to boost these stats is also used to unlock new items.

- There are 12 playable characters who each have 3 Aspects (which also change the skin of the character, which is a neat touch) you unlock as you complete challenges (essentially 3 different ways to play the character - the Knight for instance has a very 'starting hero' initial Aspect, but then he unlocks Weapon Master, which gives you bonus for having different weapons, and Eldritch Knight, which incentivizes you to use both melee and magical weapons. I haven't see all the aspects but if they're all this different it's essentially 36 playable characters.

- The graphics are cute, the in-game UI is serviceable but could stand to be improved (you have to click to see what a stat does for example, and it's not clear whether resources work the same as in Brotato). I prefer playing with the higher camera elevation, the default makes it a bit tricky to see whether I'm in range of an attack sometimes.

- Not that much variation in music, but what's there does the job.

- There's a few bugs with achievements atm - stuff triggering when it shouldn't and viceversa but I haven't noticed any serious bugs so far. The most egregious stuff is some of the UI choices they made wrt the inventory tetris, so hopefully they fix that at some point

All in all, pretty promising as a base product and I hope they keep polishing it as they go. It's $5 but they have a bundle with Soulstone Survivors available so it might be even cheaper that way

Azran fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Sep 13, 2023

OutOfPrint
Apr 9, 2009

Fun Shoe
Heads up for any Unity developers: Unity is planning to gently caress over developers.

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/

Short version: After 1/1/24, game installs after a threshold determined by Unity will be charged to the developer at a rate of $0.20 per install.

Not per sale. Per install.

That includes demos and reinstalls across all Unity games.

Unity said they are going to exempt bundle sales and will filter out pirated copies, but there is no actual listed plan in place for that.

The dev of Rogue: Genesia put out a blog post about this here: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2067920/view/3721717841527261981

Devorum
Jul 30, 2005

OutOfPrint posted:

Heads up for any Unity developers: Unity is planning to gently caress over developers.

https://forum.unity.com/threads/unity-plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates.1482750/

Short version: After 1/1/24, game installs after a threshold determined by Unity will be charged to the developer at a rate of $0.20 per install.

Not per sale. Per install.

That includes demos and reinstalls across all Unity games.

Unity said they are going to exempt bundle sales and will filter out pirated copies, but there is no actual listed plan in place for that.

The dev of Rogue: Genesia put out a blog post about this here: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2067920/view/3721717841527261981

This sounds absolutely unhinged.

mariooncrack
Dec 27, 2008
Vampire Survivors just switched to Unity, didn't they?

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

How the hell do I get more bottles in HoT? The monster that spawns when you get the ribbon on the regular difficulty of the first stage used to drop them but it stopped doing that.

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?

zoux posted:

How the hell do I get more bottles in HoT? The monster that spawns when you get the ribbon on the regular difficulty of the first stage used to drop them but it stopped doing that.

Play on Agony, you get tons more champions and they each have a chance to drop bottles. Since bottles don't use up the well you can easily get 2-3 per run

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Azran posted:

Play on Agony, you get tons more champions and they each have a chance to drop bottles. Since bottles don't use up the well you can easily get 2-3 per run

Well I must be getting real unlucky then. There’s enough bottles to max out all the potions, right?

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Ideally the Unity thing doesn't happen when they receive multiple binder length sternly worded letters from every AAA dev in the industry.

https://twitter.com/headfallsoff/status/1701772720885628961

Me, a Genius Businessman: What if I picked a fight with Microsoft's Legal Department over free retroactive money and infinitely scaling fees forever going forward?

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


i did it

after dozens of deaths at 29 minutes and something seconds



i survived the vampires

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?

zoux posted:

Well I must be getting real unlucky then. There’s enough bottles to max out all the potions, right?

Bottles aren't a shared or finite resource, yeah. Each potion type will get bottle drops for it until you can't have any more of that type (e.g only 3 Reverberant, 8 Oblivion, etc.)

Griddle of Love
May 14, 2020


Doomykins posted:

Ideally the Unity thing doesn't happen when they receive multiple binder length sternly worded letters from every AAA dev in the industry.

Me, a Genius Businessman: What if I picked a fight with Microsoft's Legal Department over free retroactive money and infinitely scaling fees forever going forward?

"Mommy, Mommy, I want infinity ponies!"
"No."
"Ok, two ponies it is!"

I heard someone else say it smacks of intentional company suicide, and people on the board of directors had sold shares a week ago, but I'm still not sure how anyone would actually stand to benefit from them self-imploding like this?

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Griddle of Love posted:

"Mommy, Mommy, I want infinity ponies!"
"No."
"Ok, two ponies it is!"

I heard someone else say it smacks of intentional company suicide, and people on the board of directors had sold shares a week ago, but I'm still not sure how anyone would actually stand to benefit from them self-imploding like this?

If it somehow works them make infinity dollars and if it doesn't they get a golden parachute and a cushy job somewhere else.

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