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Beezus posted:Alright, got a synopsis drafted that still needs work, but I'm going to table it for the time being since the reading and advice indicate that what I really need to be focusing on is the hook/pitch, which isn't quite the same thing. post it in here if you want feedback, it's generally p high quality.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:40
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A friend suggested the same thing, and I plan on it. It still needs some tightening, but I'll post it when I think I've taken it as far as I can on my own.
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Aug 17, 2023 22:04
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Alright, here we go: I would love some feedback on my pitch. This is for the first book of my dark-ish urban fantasy duology. The first book builds some romantic tension that culminates in book two. I wouldn't call book one a romance, but that's absolutely where the series is headed. It's sitting at 115k words and may get a little shorter after my next round of edits, but probably not much shorter. Here's what I have: Hellbent posted:Twenty-nine-year-old Marian Meyer dies for a living. And every time she dies, she goes to Hell. It ends on what I consider a brutal cliffhanger and twisty note, and I'm not sure how much of it I should reveal in this. This book is not actually about demons/hell/angels/heaven, but I am intentionally leading readers to think that it is. I can post the twist & end under a spoiler if anyone would find that useful. Comps are Leigh Bardugo's Ninth House (fish-out-of-water antihero), Jeff VanderMeer’s Annihilation (women exploring an unsettling otherscape & cosmic threat), and maybe Charlaine Harris' Southern Vampire Mysteries for banter/enemies-to-lovers vibes. I'm second-guessing all of my instincts here, so critiques are very much appreciated. Beezus fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 05:51
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That reads very well, want to know more, smooth prose, not too much or too little detail.
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Aug 18, 2023 06:41
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Beezus posted:Alright, here we go: I would love some feedback on my pitch. This is for the first book of my dark-ish urban fantasy duology. The first book builds some romantic tension that culminates in book two. I wouldn't call book one a romance, but that's absolutely where the series is headed. It's sitting at 115k words and may get a little shorter after my next round of edits, but probably not much shorter. My feedback is probably worth very little seeing how I've never attempted to query but as someone who has read the beta version, it's a super tight synopsis that hits all of the major plot points and vibes. Imo it does a good job distilling the essence of your book into a few paragraphs.
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Aug 18, 2023 12:24
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Beezus posted:It ends on what I consider a brutal cliffhanger and twisty note, and I'm not sure how much of it I should reveal in this. This book is not actually about demons/hell/angels/heaven, but I am intentionally leading readers to think that it is. I can post the twist & end under a spoiler if anyone would find that useful. Comps are Leigh Bardugo's Ninth House (fish-out-of-water antihero), Jeff VanderMeer’s Annihilation (women exploring an unsettling otherscape & cosmic threat), and maybe Charlaine Harris' Southern Vampire Mysteries for banter/enemies-to-lovers vibes. For an obviously "don't use this" rough example of an ending: quote:Then Tori vanishes without a trace before Marian can collect her fee. A desperate search ensues as debts come due, monsters emerge from the shadows, and Marian discovers she’s at the center of a conspiracy to unleash Hell on Earth. Facing oblivion, she has no choice but to strike a dubious bargain with none other than Mr. Vale. But the demon harbors secrets Marian can scarcely comprehend. Secrets with the power to shatter her world, and the next. If Marian is going to take Tori to the pony show, she's going to need all of Mr. Vale's secrets to find one hell of a good horse.
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Aug 18, 2023 13:51
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agh I had a post all written up and then Safari crashed … so, quick version I’ve also read the beta, which probably clouds my judgement a bit! Overall I quite like the synopsis and think it represents the book well, the comps are solid (though I’m slightly side-eyeing Bardugo’s novel given, uh, the name of its sequel), and just have a few comments: quote:Twenty-nine-year-old Marian Meyer dies for a living. And every time she dies, she goes to Hell. quote:Marian’s a hardened cynic, yet she can’t help but be drawn to Tori, a desperate woman she’s compelled to assist despite the meager compensation quote:Is this kind of pithy snappy ending necessary? Hell no. Is it common? More common than not, at least in the querying hell pit circles I tend to revolve around.
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Aug 18, 2023 14:04
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Beezus posted:Alright, here we go: I would love some feedback on my pitch. You should probably post the twist, yes. It might affect what you want to put in. I would say my one point of critique is that I can't really tell who the romance is supposed to be. Is it the handsome Mr. Vale? Is it the irresistible Miriam? Is this supposed to develop into a kinky throuple? I'm getting mixed signals here and it is my understanding that a romance reader generally NEEDS to understand at first glance at the blurb what the romance is going to be. Megazver fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 14:08
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Note: I'm responding to the synopsis without reading any of the context you provided, the same as your intended audience. Beezus posted:Twenty-nine-year-old Marian Meyer dies for a living. And every time she dies, she goes to Hell. There may be a compelling story in here, but it's drowning in shallow waters. Too many antagonistic elements, no clear antagonist. Marian sounds put-upon and flustered, put in potentially interesting situations but not herself flawed in any interesting/apparent ways that suggest a character arc. Absent any compelling narrative context, "Being cynical" is a character flaw inasmuch as "Doesn't trust the system". Be more specific. Use stronger verbs and nouns; reduce or consolidate story elements and introduce them as soon as possible.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:33
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rohan posted:I’ve also read the beta, which probably clouds my judgement a bit! Side note, it's great that the author has readers giving feedback , but I strongly caution against taking feedback on queries/synopses from people who've seen the material in question. Fresh eyes are crucial to tightening up something--anything, really--for a general audience.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:37
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Beezus posted:Alright, here we go: I would love some feedback on my pitch. This is for the first book of my dark-ish urban fantasy duology. The first book builds some romantic tension that culminates in book two. I wouldn't call book one a romance, but that's absolutely where the series is headed. It's sitting at 115k words and may get a little shorter after my next round of edits, but probably not much shorter. Rooting for ya dude!
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Aug 18, 2023 16:48
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rohan posted:(I’m slightly side-eyeing Bardugo’s novel given, uh, the name of its sequel) I've got Hellbound ready to swap in for the title. I've hemmed and hawed about it for a bit since I've been irrationally attached to "hellbent" since I started working on it 4-ish years ago, but the world "hellbent" is apparently having a moment in the book world right now, and I'm a bit too late to do anything about it. rohan posted:Tori deserves more than this, she’s much more than a desperate woman. I agree with you on this and think I had something more compelling and accurate in a previous draft. Chillmatic posted:Note: I'm responding to the synopsis without reading any of the context you provided, the same as your intended audience. Thank you for the detailed feedback! I noticed you referred to this as a synopsis. Are "pitch" and "synopsis" used interchangeably? I have something pretty different drafted for my synopsis and was under the impression that a pitch isn't quite the same thing. Not that I expect that would change your specific feedback... but does it? Wungus posted:The only thing I'd say is that a lot of queries and/or pitches will end in an open question, or at least a more specific "here's the big conflict and the main character is involved" statement, and this one doesn't quite do that, but that's a nitpicky thing that you can really ignore unless you're desperate to rearrange some deck chairs. I noticed this in a lot of examples I'd read and ultimately decided after a lot of consideration that I didn't want to do it unless I get feedback that was like, YOU MUST DO THIS OR PERISH. Thank you all for the thoughtful critique! Beezus fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 18:00
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Beezus posted:Thank you for the detailed feedback! I noticed you referred to this as a synopsis versus a pitch. Are "pitch" and "synopsis" used interchangeably? I have something pretty different drafted for my synopsis and was under the impression that a pitch isn't quite the same thing. Not that I expect that would change your specific feedback... but does it? They are not interchangeable, but what you currently have doesn't slot cleanly into either. I wouldn't worry too much about the nuance between pitch/jacket copy/summary/blurb/etc just yet. Effective queries are standardized across genre in the industry, and story presentation should follow that as closely as possible. It's annoying as gently caress, I know. My own coping mechanism was to--not always successfully--see querying as a necessary evil; clarifying constraints that helped me write better stories. When I thought of it that way I spent a lot less time fighting the format.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:19
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Yeah, to me that reads mostly as the kind of pitch you'd put into a query letter. Not the kind of pitch that you'd keep in your back pocket as an elevator/one sentence/quick pitch, but it's closest to a standard query of all. Normally when people use the term pitch they mean more the elevator style pitch, the kind of thing you can say to someone in the industry when they say "so what's the book." Like, the book I'm currently querying, my pitch is (with a slight shift of comps depending on the person) "Fists of Rot is queer Australian Blitzball meets Gideon the Ninth, where a sapphic sports star punches balls to free her teammates from a prison of the gods." It's something that you can say in a sentence that makes you feel dirty and gross, like you've stripped all the nuance from the thing and are being cheap and shallow and quippy. I've seen things that look less like a standard query get picked up than yours, which is why I was being kind of interchangeable with the terms. A query will have this PLUS a descriptor/comps PLUS a personal introduction, but this is usually the part that people spend the most time panicking over. Chillmatic's got REALLY good advice to get closer to the more "standard" type of query, but I've personally kinda hit a point with querying where good enough is all agents are going to get. Besides, some books flat out won't be represented properly by the standard query, so it's up to you to decide how much you wanna follow the formula or not. It's definitely not a synopsis though. A synopsis is the whole book. You don't gently caress around and hint at stuff, you don't leave things open, you say what happens the whole way through, including all spoilers. Including the ending. You walk someone through the whole drat story.
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Aug 18, 2023 19:21
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Yeah I really hate everything about this process so far, and I haven't even fired off a query letter yet. My brain really struggles to distill down the things that matter in a compelling way. I've had the goal simplified for me in terms that are super digestible, but executing it is just *angry bee swarm noises*. I'm trying. Trying and sobbing. "Good enough" may just be what I end up with, and I accept the consequences. But gonna keep trying. Here's another attempt: Hellbent/Hellbound posted:Twenty-nine-year-old Marian Meyer dies for a living. Beezus fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 19:51
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Beezus posted:I'm trying. Trying and sobbing. Here's some poo poo that I wish someone had shared with me. Take or leave, as you like. 1. Being a writer sucks enough rear end as it is. Be nicer to yourself. 2. You don't need to start querying today. I know--I know. It feels like you have to get this done or the story will die on the vine and you'll lose all momentum forever and what the gently caress have you even been doing with your life and you just suck and hoogity boogity NEVER GONNA BE A REAL WRITER AUUGHHH. Slow down. Be nicer to yourself. 3. Think of what you want your readers to feel when they've finished the book, and the component parts necessary to create that feeling. Surface those elements when talking about/pitching/revising your work. Remember that your audience wants to love your story and the characters experiencing it--resist any temptation to get in the way. Oh and be nicer to yourself. 4. You're the agent now. Pitch the story in an email to yourself this afternoon. Take the rest of the weekend off. Don't open that email until Monday morning. I'm not kidding. No one else is going to see it, so it doesn't matter if it sucks. And who knows--with a fresh look at the thing, the bits that sparkle may organize themselves next time around, helping you see the value in being, well, you know the rest.
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Aug 18, 2023 20:21
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Chillmatic posted:2. You don't need to start querying today. I know--I know. It feels like you have to get this done or the story will die on the vine and you'll lose all momentum forever and what the gently caress have you even been doing with your life and you just suck and hoogity boogity NEVER GONNA BE A REAL WRITER AUUGHHH. Like, querying sucks. Don't make it worse. Wungus fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Aug 19, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 21:19
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I just came across this on a writing advice site and simply had to share. How to fix the writing in Susannah Clarke's Piranesi (spoilers):   A good example of how you shouldn't blindly trust sites that insist on fitting everything into some kind of writing framework.
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Sep 1, 2023 13:35
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It's true, you'll fix the writing in any book if you give the protagonist the ability to fly. Every book that doesn't have a flying protagonist has broken writing.
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Sep 1, 2023 14:15
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Wungus posted:It's true, you'll fix the writing in any book if you give the protagonist the ability to fly. Every book that doesn't have a flying protagonist has broken writing. when a protagonist can't fly, every other other character in the book should be asking 'when is the protagonist going to fly'
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Sep 1, 2023 14:24
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SimonChris posted:I just came across this on a writing advice site and simply had to share. I only just read this last week and boy is this a fundamental misunderstanding of the story in a 200-page book. Piranesi kicks the gun away and hides because he doesn't want anyone to die, including the Other, and considers a device for killing sacrosanct to the integrity of the House (he even says as much!). Climbing onto the statues to hide isn't a "stroke of luck," he knew the flood would be hitting soon due to his meticulous record keeping and knowledge of the House's internal rythms, something reiterated throughout the book since the very beginning. He was giving the Other an out and time to escape, but they were so blinded by their hate and lust for power that they threw their life away instead. Also, the House was formed by ancient knowledge draining away from humanity and carving the space away, and it's heavily implied that the supreme secret knowledge the Other and Arne-Sayles are searching for is intrinsic in the structure of the House itself; all of the omens Piranesi receives by watching the flocks of birds move from statue to statue were correct and eventually came true. That's a magic of watching, and symbol interpretation and gnostic knowledge in the ancient "commune with the god/natural world" vein, rather than "uhhhh he can fly now" D&D stuff change my name fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Sep 1, 2023 |
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Sep 1, 2023 15:06
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No, I think you'll find he couldn't fly, and this was Wrong. This is Craft. This is the Process.
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Sep 1, 2023 15:32
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Wungus posted:It's true, you'll fix the writing in any book if you give the protagonist the ability to fly. Every book that doesn't have a flying protagonist has broken writing. Brb gotta go rewrite the end of my current WIP so EVERYONE can fly. Now what do I do the antagonists can also fly
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Sep 2, 2023 00:31
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Leng posted:Brb gotta go rewrite the end of my current WIP so EVERYONE can fly. Great Expectations (of Pip being able to fly)
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Sep 2, 2023 00:48
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Wungus posted:It's true, you'll fix the writing in any book if you give the protagonist the ability to fly. Every book that doesn't have a flying protagonist has broken writing. And I've just started my final draft, only to find this fixes it entirely! How blind I've been!
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Sep 2, 2023 00:57
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Leng posted:Brb gotta go rewrite the end of my current WIP so EVERYONE can fly. well how many health potions does the protagonist have left?
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Sep 2, 2023 01:00
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Wungus posted:It's true, you'll fix the writing in any book if you give the protagonist the ability to fly. Every book that doesn't have a flying protagonist has broken writing. You have finally explained The Vampire Lestat and Queen of the Damned for me. Thank you.
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Sep 2, 2023 02:13
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sebmojo posted:Great Expectations (of Pip being able to fly) oic yes that would do it HopperUK posted:well how many health potions does the protagonist have left? I assume "infinity because bag of holding" is the correct answer? SimonChris posted:I just came across this on a writing advice site and simply had to share. Ok so on a serious note, the hilariously wrong take on Piranesi had me looking up the source because I wanted to know who could have read the book that far and misunderstood it so bad: https://mythcreants.com/blog/five-fake-turning-points-storytellers-keep-using/ Guys, it's not just a writing advice site; it's a content marketing blog (which they're framing as "an online publication for speculative fiction storytellers") for their editorial services. The person who posted the article is the founder and editor-in-chief (not 100% sure if they are also the actual author of the article; they solicit contributed articles and I've seen a lot of smaller sites where the account that publishes the article isn't necessarily the contributing author because it's extra work on the backend to set up). They are currently booked 1–2 months out but have a super handy calculator so that you, too, can know that a content (developmental) edit from them on a 100,000 word manuscript will cost you $1,240 and take 7 weeks! There's one testimonial from a named author with a very common name and no book title attached to the testimonial! And if a full content (dev) edit is too expensive for you, you can pay $50/hour for a Zoom voice-only consultation!  This, on top of all the people constantly baying "HIRING A PROFESSIONAL EDITOR IS A MUST!!!" at anybody with a manuscript regardless of whether they're pursuing self-pub or trad pub, is resulting in an industry where the average new author entrant ends up 4- or 5-figs out of pocket before they've even gotten anywhere near publication, FFS. I swear the first new video I'm gonna make after I get these revisions from hell done is going to be a 50-minute rant on why, for the majority of new authors and in the majority of cases, hiring a pro editor is a bad business decision in terms of ROI. In the mean time, for ACTUALLY GOOD writing discussion, watch A Critical Dragon: https://www.youtube.com/@ACriticalDragon This dude has thoughtful takes and if/when I can actually afford to hire a dev editor, he would be my first pick.
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Sep 2, 2023 04:54
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tiny brain: Frodo should have taken the eagles to Mount Doom galaxy brain: Frodo should simply have been able to fly himself
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Sep 2, 2023 04:56
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Leng posted:
That’s half as much as I’ve seen it some places.
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Sep 2, 2023 11:39
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BigFactory posted:That’s half as much as I’ve seen it some places. And where else are you going to get tips like ‘just give him the ability to fly’? ETA: On a more serious note, I agree with Leng. You constantly see this advice to ‘get an editor’ posted no matter what the writer’s goals, level of experience, or budget are. It’s very obvious that most people writing for fun or very small profit do not technically need an editor. newts fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Sep 2, 2023 |
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Sep 2, 2023 15:28
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newts posted:You constantly see this advice to ‘get an editor’ posted no matter what the writer’s goals, level of experience, or budget are. Don't get me wrong: editors are super useful! Sometimes! They're generally not scam artists! It's just a relatively safe bet to prey on the insecurities of writers. This is an hour long, yes, but it's advice from a freelance editor outright saying a lot of people probably don't need one, and if you feel you do, here's the different types of editor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ-eDMOJi0M
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Sep 2, 2023 16:54
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I mean you absolutely 100% need an editor if you are presenting your writing to the public as something they should pay money for--or are trying to get the attention of someone who will put your work in that position. But if you're skeptical then there's nothing wrong with asking if a given editor (depending on which specialization they do, experience level, etc) will take on a single chapter or section of your work before you fully commit. Some may agree, some may not. quote:This is an hour long, yes, but it's advice from a freelance editor outright saying a lot of people probably don't need one, and if you feel you do, here's the different types of editor. edit: most of her points boil down to: don't hire an editor out of your own pocket if you can't afford it, or are counting on becoming a mega-rich bestseller. In which case lol yes I agree entirely. edit2: argh she keeps qualifying her absolute best point: if you can only afford the work of one editor, please for the love of god get a developmental edit rather than a line edit. Unless you're positive the story/characters/pacing are already as strong as can be. Chillmatic fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Sep 2, 2023 |
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Sep 2, 2023 20:41
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They fly now?
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Sep 2, 2023 22:21
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Chillmatic posted:I mean you absolutely 100% need an editor if you are presenting your writing to the public as something they should pay money for--or are trying to get the attention of someone who will put your work in that position. I don’t agree with this at all, I have never paid a cent for an editor. They pay me to edit my work when they buy it and that’s how it should be 
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Sep 2, 2023 22:22
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General Battuta posted:They fly now? They don't, and I think you know that. General Battuta posted:I don’t agree with this at all, I have never paid a cent for an editor. They pay me to edit my work when they buy it and that’s how it should be u should of payed someone to edit ur posts lmao
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Sep 2, 2023 22:29
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Chillmatic posted:
What a well thought out and insightful argument. On the editor discussion, the thing I find frustrating with networking/editors, is the teaching writing Seeing this part of the industry makes me wince whenever anyone purchases those editing service. DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Sep 3, 2023 |
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Sep 3, 2023 00:49
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DropTheAnvil posted:... I was just having a conversation about this phenomenon in general, and I don't think writing is an exception. Basically, it feels like everyone everywhere is constantly trying to sell you something. Random stranger on the street approaches you? They generally want money for something. Random advice video online? They're about to tell you about a product that changed their lives. I once had a stranger on an airplane strike up conversation with me purely so they could pitch their multi-level marketing scheme. There's still people out there who genuinely want to give good advice out there out of the goodness of their hearts, but they're eclipsed by the rampaging hordes of people trying to make an extra buck, and I think it's extremely important to be on the look out for anyone who is financially motivated. Financial motivation doesn't necessarily mean the advice is bad, but they're rarely going to be looking out for your best interests, so be wary.
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Sep 3, 2023 01:31
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I've been trying to write a book since high school. I'm in my 30s, and my life is stable now, so it's time to give it another shot. Especially if the AI revolution is coming. I started chapter one today. I usually write in Courier New, but for this attempt, I'm using Comic Sans.
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Sep 7, 2023 19:59
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Ither posted:I've been trying to write a book since high school. Yay, write that poo poo imo, write the hell out of it
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Sep 7, 2023 20:01
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