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Macichne Leainig
Jul 26, 2012

by VG
WSL2 also has fantastic integration with Docker Desktop in Windows proper. I'm very impressed how well all that works to get the benefits of a fully functional Linux env right on Windows now.

Too bad about the rest of Windows these days, but this isn't really the thread for that rant

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QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Yeah Docker Desktop has a slick interface but only gives you 1% of the power of a CLI user and just lol at ever using a Windows CLI, I am very glad that Microsoft decided that maybe it was time to let it be the year of linux on the desktop

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Microsoft showing ads everywhere in the "Professional" edition of their OS is one of those really strong arguments to finally give up on Windows for development.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Xarn posted:

Microsoft showing ads everywhere in the "Professional" edition of their OS is one of those really strong arguments to finally give up on Windows for development.

Don't worry! If you configure group policy ~*just so*~, you can avoid...most of them.

Thanks Microsoft!

ElehemEare
May 20, 2001
I am an omnipotent penguin.

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Don't worry! If you configure group policy ~*just so*~, you can avoid...most of them.

Thanks Microsoft!

Wow maybe I owe my endpoint team some credit because I see no ads on my corporate W10 device.

I also can’t install WSL2 or anything requiring Administrator privileges. Ah, well, nevertheless

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

ExcessBLarg! posted:

Perhaps a simpler solution would be to run the IPTV software as a dedicated user and then set an ip rule on the uid to use the VPN interface.

You could also create a new network namespace and use nsenter when lauching the IPTV software to place it in the new namespace. This is closer to what the container solution does.

Also the container solution is fine, but if running it fully in a container presents other problems there's a few alternatives.

What do you know, I'm not the first person in the world to want to run 1 application under a VPN. https://github.com/ausbin/nsdo/ does everything I need and works as expected.

edit: I was wrong. Sound doesn't work for some reason. I have pipewire with the pulseaudio module and probably is trying to run it over the network within that namespace and fails. Plus, the VPN seems to be failing in weird ways so that ffmpeg doesn't catch on the fact that the stream is over and restart it (as instructed). All in all ... the container solution is still the best one that I have for now. Will keep on investigating other options.

Volguus fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Sep 1, 2023

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
If I had to pick between not having WSL and seeing occasional ads, give me the ads tbh

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Xarn posted:

If I had to pick between not having WSL and seeing occasional ads, give me the ads tbh

Seems like it's more running ads vs just using Linux. Valve increased compatibility for wine so I'm leaning toward Linux. At this point wine has longer backward compatibility than windows, too.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Yeah if we're talking about a work computer then just give me linux from the jump

DaTroof
Nov 16, 2000

CC LIMERICK CONTEST GRAND CHAMPION
There once was a poster named Troof
Who was getting quite long in the toof

neosloth posted:

The hardest thing Ive had to do in all my time working is setting up an older version of ruby on a freshly updated mac

When I had to do this with Ruby 2.4 (IIRC) the only way I found that worked was to run the project in a Docker container.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
I heard somewhere google runs all their servers on pacific time instead of UTC but I don't know the details.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

I heard somewhere google runs all their servers on pacific time instead of UTC but I don't know the details.

They do not. It's mainly human readable stuff sometimes defaulting to PST, or times being given without a timezone, but all of that is much less common than it used to be. The joke is that it's Google Standard Time.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

something something leap second smear

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

I worked on a product once where all the timestamps were stored in the database in local time. I think that was just how DB2 worked by default back in the day? Then we sold the entire thing to another company who had their data centers in a different time zone and so when they moved the database all the timestamps changed.

Amazingly, I think the decision was just “eh, whatever, it’s just three hours.”

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
Back when I worked at Experts Exchange, our extra push to market to folks outside the US made it painfully clear that we were sorting comments by local time as everything got all mixed up during the two hours between 1:00 and 2:00 on the night DST ended every year. So we changed it to sort by ID. Then we did a big migration and everything got all scrambled again. I forget if we ever fixed it.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Volmarias posted:

They do not. It's mainly human readable stuff sometimes defaulting to PST, or times being given without a timezone, but all of that is much less common than it used to be. The joke is that it's Google Standard Time.

Well at least they refuse to observe daylight saving time!

Vanadium
Jan 8, 2005

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

I heard somewhere google runs all their servers on pacific time instead of UTC but I don't know the details.

Not quite the same scale but Twitch runs all their servers (the thousands that aren't just AWS, anyway) on Pacific time.

Zopotantor
Feb 24, 2013

...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

CPColin posted:

Experts Exchange

:heysexy:

DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?
About 10 years ago a middle manager at the place I work went “I want some milliseconds on this execution time stamp column” So the outsourced IT worker dutifully looked through every semi-related table in the db and updated the execution column to the only source he could find that included milliseconds, and that’s why ever since the execution time stamp column has in fact recorded the time the row was written to the database and not the execution time.

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

smackfu posted:

I worked on a product once where all the timestamps were stored in the database in local time.
You'd think that timestamps should always be stored in UTC and converted to localtime for presentation but sometimes there's strong reason to store them in local-to-particular-venue time regardless of a given machine's local zone, and future timestamps should follow DST policy for that venue that may not yet be defined.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Only pathetic wieners store timestamps in UTC, real rockstars use JD. I have a dentist appointment at 2460190.94803

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

ExcessBLarg! posted:

You'd think that timestamps should always be stored in UTC and converted to localtime for presentation but sometimes there's strong reason to store them in local-to-particular-venue time regardless of a given machine's local zone, and future timestamps should follow DST policy for that venue that may not yet be defined.

and in this case, if you're not storing a time zone identifier (not the offset) to go with the timestamp, you're doing it wrong

DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?
Extra lols if you’ve changed vendors multiple times and the data has correspondingly changed time zones, but you kept storing it in a tz-naive format the whole time.

ElehemEare
May 20, 2001
I am an omnipotent penguin.

DoctorTristan posted:

Extra lols if you’ve changed vendors multiple times and the data has correspondingly changed time zones, but you kept storing it in a tz-naive format the whole time.

It’s all EST to me! :yotj:

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
All timestamps should be in ISO8601 format set to UTC.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

FlapYoJacks posted:

All timestamps should be in ISO8601 format set to UTC.

except, of course, when they shouldn't

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

redleader posted:

except, of course, when they shouldn't

There is never a time they shouldn't be. If you need to display the time the conversion happens when converting the timestamp to the user set time zone.

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010

FlapYoJacks posted:

There is never a time they shouldn't be. If you need to display the time the conversion happens when converting the timestamp to the user set time zone.
There are many times when I care a great deal about the elapsed time between two events and very little about what non-monotonic calendar time they happened at.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009



FlapYoJacks posted:

All timestamps should be in ISO8601 format set to UTC.

What if you have an event planned for 5 years in the future that must happen at 10 am local time, but the event is set in a location near the border between two time zones and both of those time zones are considering dropping DST and the municipality is considering moving from one time zone to the other? And you don't know if any of those changes will take place, but you do know that the event needs to start at 10 am local time, regardless of what time that would be in UTC.

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

nielsm posted:

What if you have an event planned for 5 years in the future that must happen at 10 am local time, but the event is set in a location near the border between two time zones and both of those time zones are considering dropping DST and the municipality is considering moving from one time zone to the other? And you don't know if any of those changes will take place, but you do know that the event needs to start at 10 am local time, regardless of what time that would be in UTC.

You quit.

M31
Jun 12, 2012

FlapYoJacks posted:

There is never a time they shouldn't be. If you need to display the time the conversion happens when converting the timestamp to the user set time zone.

Enjoy waking up to your alarm clock at 3am after a flight

DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

FlapYoJacks posted:

There is never a time they shouldn't be. If you need to display the time the conversion happens when converting the timestamp to the user set time zone.

are you our dba who ‘fixed’ the problem a couple of years later by converting the column to a sql server datetimeoffset and just setting the timezone to ‘Z’

DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?
we also moved the whole thing to the cloud a little while back and aws keep calling up to say this is the largest EC2 sql server cluster in their entire global infrastructure and have we considered managed db services instead

i mean yes we have but it takes a while to complete a migration when it’s full of things like a datetime column with so many gotchas that only 2-3 ppl in the organisation know how to get the correct values out

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

DoctorTristan posted:

we also moved the whole thing to the cloud a little while back and aws keep calling up to say this is the largest EC2 sql server cluster in their entire global infrastructure and have we considered managed db services instead

i mean yes we have but it takes a while to complete a migration when it’s full of things like a datetime column with so many gotchas that only 2-3 ppl in the organisation know how to get the correct values out

The real fun will start once that number goes to zero.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008
swatch internet time is the answer.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

DoctorTristan posted:

we also moved the whole thing to the cloud a little while back and aws keep calling up to say this is the largest EC2 sql server cluster in their entire global infrastructure and have we considered managed db services instead

i mean yes we have but it takes a while to complete a migration when it’s full of things like a datetime column with so many gotchas that only 2-3 ppl in the organisation know how to get the correct values out

wouldn't managed db service at your scale end up being prohibitively expensive?

necrotic
Aug 2, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

redleader posted:

wouldn't managed db service at your scale end up being prohibitively expensive?

Yes, and Amazon is also horrible for “managed X”, at least when it isn’t something they built internally in my experience.

ElehemEare
May 20, 2001
I am an omnipotent penguin.

DoctorTristan posted:

we also moved the whole thing to the cloud a little while back and aws keep calling up to say this is the largest EC2 sql server cluster in their entire global infrastructure and have we considered managed db services instead

i mean yes we have but it takes a while to complete a migration when it’s full of things like a datetime column with so many gotchas that only 2-3 ppl in the organisation know how to get the correct values out

Not sure if we work at the same place or they tell this to everyone who lifted a giant on-prem cluster into EC2. How many x1e.32xlarge we talking?

tango alpha delta
Sep 9, 2011

Ask me about my wealthy lifestyle and passive income! I love bragging about my wealth to my lessers! My opinions are more valid because I have more money than you! Stealing the fruits of the labor of the working class is okay, so long as you don't do it using crypto. More money = better than!
Has anyone else had to endure an IdeaGuy, who, after playing with ChatGPT, declares with supreme confidence that he doesn’t need devs to build his dream app now!

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DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

redleader posted:

wouldn't managed db service at your scale end up being prohibitively expensive?

We’re not all that huge by today’s reckoning - total db storage is measured in low numbers of terabytes including a whole bunch of duplication and archives, and most of it all ran on one beefy windows server until about 4-5 years ago.

Maybe the AWS rep meant no-one at this scale or higher is using sql server, or maybe all the other orgs with a large sql server cluster, business processes built around sharepoint + onedrive, and dev processes that rely heavily on azure dev ops and aad chose a different cloud provider for some strange reason.

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