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The_Doctor posted:I think there’s some excellent storytelling that could be made from the Bat Family concept these days. If the Batman comics were consistently illustrated like this I would totally read them, that art and coloring is great. But knowing American comics they'll switch out the artists after 6-12 issues. Anyway Batman Beyond Return of the Joker is my favorite DC animated movie ever. Slightly outpacing Mask of the Phantasm because it has better animation.
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Sep 3, 2023 19:21
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Ccs posted:If the Batman comics were consistently illustrated like this I would totally read them, that art and coloring is great. But knowing American comics they'll switch out the artists after 6-12 issues. Cameo of a geriatric Harley Quinn yelling at her granddaughters at the end was great.
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Sep 3, 2023 21:32
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Not sure which is the appropriate thread for this but eeny-meeny-miney-moe, here I guess. Just watched The Incredibles for the first time in a number of years, and good God what a chud rear end movie. I remember it being super smuggo libertarian even back when it was new and I was amenable to that sort of thing, but now from today's perspective jeeeeezus christ Obviously the lines that are usually cited in support of this are Mr. I's "it's not a graduation"/"celebration of mediocrity" speech which we know today as the "participation trophy" rant, and the "when everyone is super, no one will be" one from later. But there's so much more. Mom's pep talk to the daughter about how "they won't hold back because you're a kid, they will kill you" and "doubt is not a luxury we can afford right now" coupled with Syndrome's speech about how "certain countries" are perfectly happy to buy his weapons which is straight-up post-9/11 Iraq-era "we are in a war of extermination and it's us or them so step up and stop whining" poo poo. The whole deal with Mr. I's job at the insurance company and his heroic circumventing of the bureaucracy in order to help people (never mind that we're talking about an insurance company here, not the tyrannical government; there is even that jaw-clenched line about how "the law requires that I say yes" to "we do want to help people, don't we?"; despite the pernicious force there being the stockholders and the profit motive behind insurance, the whole vibe is coded more toward "IRS/DMV"). Hell, even the middle school's mascot is THE SPARTANS. None of this is new of course, but I had to lol at this on Brad Bird's wiki page: quote:Many critics have analyzed his films and suggested they reflect Russian-American novelist Ayn Rand's Objectivism philosophy, which Bird vehemently denies, suggesting it a monumental misreading of his work.[61] Though he claims he was drawn to Rand's work in his younger years, he offers, "Me being the Ayn Rand guy is a lazy piece of criticism."[67] He stated that a large portion of the audience understood the message as he intended whereas "two percent thought I was doing The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged."[38] Tomorrowland's plot line—a group of geniuses form a utopia to sequester themselves from the world—has been considered reminiscent of Atlas Shrugged and its Galt Gulch enclave.[62] In The Incredibles, father Bob Parr complains of what he feels is society's increasing celebration of mediocrity, and later in the film, its villain Syndrome asserts that "when everyone's super, no one will be." Analysts suggested these lines a reflection of views shared by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.[38][68] One writer distilled Ratatouille down to "if you don't have talent, you should get out of the way of people who do."[61] David Sims at The Atlantic has suggested Bird's films are instead "stories about the frustrations of unbridled creativity [...] In each film, there's an indelible recurring image: the frustrated genius, locked away in a dusty closet, obsessing over the talents he has to hide."[62] Likewise, IndieWire's Eric Kohn called Bird a "pivotal figure in exploring the American dream through the vernacular of popular culture."[69] lmao okay dude. For real I feel like The Incredibles is as instrumental in creating as many of today's shitheads as South Park. It's such a shame because it is so ridiculously stylish and clever and genuinely thrilling (favorite moment, the guttural inward chuckle from Dash as he realizes he can run on water). And Frozone is one of the best super-concepts ever (notwithstanding him being literally the only POC in the whole movie; him being extra competent and funny and heroic and all does not exactly dispel the tokenism). It's an unbelievably well put-together movie right down to the cape gag callback being the final climax in the grandest Pixar style. I just feel like I need a shower afterwards
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Sep 4, 2023 15:35
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Party Boat posted:why was Washington's battle suit made of wood You just don't understand Treepunk
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Sep 4, 2023 16:24
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The whole thing about Syndrome's rant is people miss the the big lines before "If everyone is super, no one is" is that he'll only give other people powers once he gets bored of being king of the hill by being the only Super around. And given both his deceitful nature (he lies multiple times in the film from how he lured other supers to their death and how he managed to get his hands on Jack-Jack) and ego, I think we're supposed to take away that he was lying his rear end off about the last part, again to either make himself look better or to puncture Bob's own ego because Syndrome assuming Bob threw him out of the car because he's just a non-powered kid, instead of being well a kid who was essentially stalking Bob and is putting himself in harm's way by refusing to listen to him, or backing off, it's clear from Bob's reaction it's not the first time Buddy was in his car. Bob is definitely meant to be a man with issues who builds his entire sense of self-worth as being the Big, Strong Guy who don't needs anyone else, but a lot of Libertarian reading of the Incredibles hinges on Syndrome being a completely honest guy, when his actions and words in the entire film shows he's both incredibly selfish and extremely dishonest.
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Sep 4, 2023 16:24
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For what it's worth saying to an interviewer that you don't align with either party in the early 2000s was just a polite way of saying "I don't want to talk to you about this gently caress off"
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Sep 4, 2023 16:41
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Mm, maybe. I don't take his "I'll sell my inventions to everybody in order to destroy the concept of supers" vow to be dishonest; it sounds more like a true-believer who just wants to wallow in his own crapulence first because more than anything else he's extremely pragmatic ("of course NOW you respect me; because I'm a threat"). Yes he comes to that point only after "I'm old and I've had my fun"; but if he were just in it to be venal and selfish, why bother making an iconoclastic point at the end of his life? Maybe more importantly, why should we think that that tactic has particular significance to Bob? Bob isn't invested in supers' survival; he's chafing under witness protection, sure, but he's just indulging a midlife crisis, not waving a flag for Supers' Rights. Syndrome telling him he plans to give everybody superpowers hasn't been shown to be something Bob would care about one way or the other really. He cares that his personal friends have been killed (and he wishes Dash could go all-out at track) but he doesn't disagree that supers should be in hiding. His we-shouldn't-reward-mediocrity stance comes across as pretty unexamined as he says it. For that line to be meant only as a knife to Bob's ribs it means ignoring its front-and-center framing as the key concept of the movie—Syndrome is muttering it almost to himself at that point, right up close, 40 feet high to the theater audience, and Bob can probably barely even hear him. It's for our benefit. Data Graham fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Sep 4, 2023 |
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Sep 4, 2023 16:42
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Yeah there is a lot in the Incredibles that hasn't aged well butData Graham posted:Mom's pep talk to the daughter about how "they won't hold back because you're a kid, they will kill you" Is absolutely 100% true. If you doubt it go down to the border and ask the children at
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Sep 4, 2023 16:45
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Feldegast42 posted:Yeah there is a lot in the Incredibles that hasn't aged well but Yes, or see what happened Jim Thorpe - a Native American, all-star athlete, makes it to the 1912 Olympics - had his shoes stolen and then his medals stripped for playing semi-professional in a way you knew the IOC would've let slide for a white athlete - anyone different that does too well tend to get hit hard.
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Sep 4, 2023 16:53
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Data Graham posted:why bother making an iconoclastic point at the end of his life? The only iconoclastic point Syndrome makes at the end of his life is “No capes!”
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Sep 4, 2023 16:57
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Data Graham posted:For real I feel like The Incredibles is as instrumental in creating as many of today's shitheads as South Park. I don't think this is true.
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Sep 4, 2023 17:25
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I've still said, it's totally an equally valid reading that Incredibles is socialist, the supers are a social safety net that was stripped away by capitalism, the supers who want to devote their lives to helping people are forced into exploitative systems- Bob literally has to relocate because he lost his temper from his boss making him con little old ladies out of their livelihoods- and their life-saving activities are criminalised. Bob also has the whole arc about learning to become part of a larger group and that his personal needs and desires sometimes have to come second to what his family and society needs- but of course, his desire to help people is still valid and genuine, and it's a good thing that the safety net has been returned to deal with threats that would run rampant without it. Syndrome is literally a wealthy capitalist who uses his technology solely to benefit himself and present himself as a hero, and ends up completely unable to deal with a crisis he himself started, after having exterminated everyone else who would be willing or able to that he could find. And his long term plans are to completely monopolise the power to himself, and then maybe let others have it entirely at his discretion and for his profit.
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Sep 4, 2023 17:31
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There's no way Syndrome is going to price his powers at something anyone can afford, and he mention only doing it when he's too old to be actively running around, and money is power (Batman jokes aside) - he's trading one superpower for another. And he's Stage-whispering that last line, while smirking and looking directly at Bob - he absolutely intends for him to hear it - and yes, stage-whispering is often a way to get someone to pay attention, it's not an aside.
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Sep 4, 2023 17:38
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Robindaybird brings up a good point in that Bob has issues with having built his self image in being big and strong and incredible. His arc involves realizing that he should value his family and rely on them more. Syndrome's line about nobody being special is a knife in the ribs of the Bob at the start of the movie. A Bob who disdains participation trophies. A Bob who is easily bamboozled by a big special mission given by a pretty lady on a fancy island. That is the Bob who Syndrome knows and in many ways the Bob that young Syndrome idolized. It is not the Bob who has gone through his arc in the movie, so Bob responds to the taunt by working with his family and winning. I like that socialist reading Ghost Leviathan. I think Brad Bird is too much of a believer in exceptionalism to really think it's intended, but thinking about it that way is a lovely way to understand why Brad Bird movies drive people crazy.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:07
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I mean I feel like I lot of people who take Syndrome at face value forget that part of his plan hinges not just on him killing off supers, but also unleashing a death bot on a city which will inevitably cause collateral damage. It has to in order to be a threat which will "require" Syndrome to appear and save the day. I mean even if it somehow doesn't kill people it's gonna tear up the city There's an old Superman comic that I don't know the issue of where Lex Luthor tells Superman that he could have cured cancer and/or saved the world (I forget) if it weren't for Superman getting in his way. And a lot of people honest to god take that seriously which is loving ridiculous, because everybody knows the only reason Superman is "getting in his way" is because (pick your poison) he's either breaking the law, probably loving killing people, or in a lot of versions is only ever attacking Superman because he's a xenophobe who hates the idea of a powerful person that he can't control with his wealth. There are multiple other Superman comics which I can source (both All-Star Superman by Grand Morrison and Superman #653 by Geoff Johns) where Superman gives his retort that Lex could have saved the world years ago if he honestly cared (in the Morrison one Lex admits it too after his defeat). Which is the best answer to the Incredibles/Syndrome "debate". Regardless of Bob's whole middle-aged prattle about participation trophies, Syndrome ultimately is self-serving. He could provide his technology to better the world whenever. poo poo, he could have patented and sold his rocket shoes back when he was a kid, but the point is he didn't. He went on a revenge scheme and killed a whole bunch of people just to tick Mr. I off (and/or kill him) and make himself look cool. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Sep 5, 2023 |
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Sep 4, 2023 18:09
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Building a machine, or machines that emulate superpowers, to be sold for a profit by a large, private corporation, feels like predictive commentary about midjourmey and chatgpt. Or possibly just the Pixar corporation circa 2004, I don't know what brad bird saw.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:11
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TwoPair posted:There's an old Superman comic that I don't know the issue of where Lex Luthor tells Superman that he could have cured cancer and/or saved the world (I forget) if it weren't for Superman getting in his way. And a lot of people honest to god take that seriously which is loving ridiculous, because everybody knows the only reason Superman is "getting in his way" is because (pick your poison) he's either breaking the law, probably loving killing people, or in a lot of versions is only ever attacking Superman because he's a xenophobe who hates the idea of a powerful person that he can't control with his wealth. There are multiple other Superman comics which I can source (both All-Star Superman by Grand Morrison and Superman #653 by Geoff Johns) where Superman gives his retort that Lex could have saved the world years ago if he honestly cared (in the Morrison one Lex admits it too after his defeat). The CW supergirl show had a fun thing with that with Lana Luthor, where at one point she's keeping a secret for a villain and covering up what she's going through, but it's because the villain is simply a mentally ill Kryptonian woman who had a killer implanted as a second personality as a human time bomb. It's not Lana's place to tell Supergirl, because it's a medical situation and Lana is the woman's doctor. There is an understandable confidentiality, and for the most part she IS helping to keep the Reign personality under control until the finale needs things to go wrong.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:18
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TwoPair posted:There's an old Superman comic that I don't know the issue of where Lex Luthor tells Superman that he could have cured cancer and/or saved the world (I forget) if it weren't for Superman getting in his way. And a lot of people honest to god take that seriously which is loving ridiculous, because everybody knows the only reason Superman is "getting in his way" is because (pick your poison) he's either breaking the law, probably loving killing people, or in a lot of versions is only ever attacking Superman because he's a xenophobe who hates the idea of a powerful person that he can't control with his wealth. There are multiple other Superman comics which I can source (both All-Star Superman by Grand Morrison and Superman #653 by Geoff Johns) where Superman gives his retort that Lex could have saved the world years ago if he honestly cared (in the Morrison one Lex admits it too after his defeat). All Star Superman #12: 
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Sep 4, 2023 18:44
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I'm not going to say The Incredibles is perfect, but most of those critiques involve stuff that happened near the beginning of the movie, before the characters grow a little. There's a lot more that could've been done to connect the dots, but it does seem like at the end, the protagonists are totally fine with putting the needs of others first, and we're supposed to think that's a good thing.
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Sep 4, 2023 21:17
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TwoPair posted:I mean I feel like I lot of people who take Syndrome at face value forget that part of his plan not just hinges on him killing off supers, but also unleashing a death bot on a city which will inevitably cause collateral damage. There's no way it couldn't without also being a threat which will "require" Syndrome to appear and save the day. The comic series 52 had Superman depowered for an entire year in which Lex could have made good on his word and done all the awesome "improve the world and push humanity forward" stuff he goes in about. He pretty much wastes the year on anti-superman schemes and giving people artificial temporary super powers to people as part of said scheme. First thing Supes when he comes back was to sarcastically ask him how that cure for cancer was coming along. Edit: A big thing that people also seem to miss about Bob is that he really IS a nice guy who really likes helping people. He loves the adulation and all, but at his core he loves helping and saving people even MORE. In his post hero career tje things we see him do are anonymously save people from a burning building even though it'll do nothing for his prestige(granted there's probably some vicarious reliving involved) and helping an old lady circumvent some corporate BS to collect the insurance she's rightfully owed and it's implied she's not the first person he's helped like this. He's also infuriated when he's forced to watch and do nothing about a mugging. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Sep 4, 2023 |
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Sep 4, 2023 23:14
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The Incredibles is a conservative film, nostalgically wishing for America to go back to the 1950s but to do it better this time. It's a fantasy aspiring to the days where millionaires paid a 90% marginal tax rate and (supposedly) didn't complain about it, with the underlying assumptions that let society function like that papered over. Like, that's Frozone's primary role in the story: black men don't get murdered by cops in this version of America because they have superpowers to stop the bullets mid-flight, so they get to settle down and have unhappy relationships with their wives like their white colleagues.
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Sep 5, 2023 00:28
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The sequel brings up some more concepts that can be interpreted in different directions. Violet's grudge with the retired G Man for example. In this universe the government is very Men In Black in that they simply mind wipe people, Violet gets pissed her boyfriend gets zapped because he accidentally saw her without her domino mask. The government in this regard is seen as clumsy and heavy handed, unlike the John Galts of the world that can figure out these problems themselves. It also has a rather playfully insidious tone where anyone with inconvenient knowledge can easily be dealt with and this is merely treated as a tedious chore by the government's hatchetmen. The main plot centers on a billionaire who relied too heavily on supers and died waiting to be rescued. His son still believes in supers and wants to bring them back, but the daughter hates them for making her father complacent. The son is trying to rehabilitate the image of supers, but it's very telling that it's a billionaire doing this. He's depicted as this almost child like Walt Disney visionary while his sister is cynical. There's an implication that society adapted away from needing supers; I get the sense that supervillain attacks are very far and few between. The underminer attacks immediately at the end of the first film but this is likely an act on opportunism; why not steal all the money with your drill tank while some wannabe supe is fighting a giant robot? Beyond these and the screenslaver I don't think there were any other supervillain activity. Likely
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Sep 5, 2023 01:38
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I'm trying to work up the gumption to reply to some of these takes, but first can someone clarify if the plural form is Supermechagodzillas, Supermechagodzillae, or Supermechagodzilli?
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Sep 5, 2023 01:45
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Breetai posted:I'm trying to work up the gumption to reply to some of these takes, but first can someone clarify if the plural form is Supermechagodzillas, Supermechagodzillae, or Supermechagodzilli? English language rules are that unless a specific word's modified plural form was grandfathered in when it was merged into English (not the entire linguistic origin, but that individual word) you just use the standard english pluralisation form of an s on the end. That's why it's platypuses and not platypodes. So Supermechagodzillas, as the word Godzilla has no extended history in English. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 5, 2023 |
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Sep 5, 2023 01:49
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Data Graham posted:Not sure which is the appropriate thread for this but eeny-meeny-miney-moe, here I guess. -Helen's comments to her kids were meant to make the film be more serious so the audience will accept the kids are in serious peril. Note that she also apologizes for going from one extreme to the other. She states "there are children on board!" when their jet is locked on and Syndrome doesn't hesitate to try to kill them anyway. Remember that unlike Bob Helen had no trouble hanging up the cape to have a normal life-very likely because she knew the actual risks. -The most egregiously conservative aspect of the film is the reason supes are retired in the first place-Mr Incredible rescues a guy trying to commit suicide who in turn SUES THE GOVERNMENT SO BADLY THEY MAKE SUPERS QUIT. That's it. That's the reason. Like I had assumed it would be supers trying to save someone only to knock a building down and kill thousands by accident but nope, just some loser mad he didn't get to kill himself that day.
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Sep 5, 2023 01:51
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I think the absurdity of it fits the tone a lot better than thousands dying all of a sudden. Death being sparse keeps it much more impactful when you get the reveal of what Syndrome is actually doing.
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Sep 5, 2023 02:11
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Panfilo posted:Some more stuff I wanted to add: And in the early stages, there was another person board the plane that did get killed when the plane was shot down but they decided that was too grim - him gleefully firing on children was more than enough to show how twisted he was and to push Mirage to turn against him.
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Sep 5, 2023 02:54
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Panfilo posted:-The most egregiously conservative aspect of the film is the reason supes are retired in the first place-Mr Incredible rescues a guy trying to commit suicide who in turn SUES THE GOVERNMENT SO BADLY THEY MAKE SUPERS QUIT. That's it. That's the reason. Like I had assumed it would be supers trying to save someone only to knock a building down and kill thousands by accident but nope, just some loser mad he didn't get to kill himself that day. Oh yeah, I meant to mention that one too. The whole "black-and-white courtrooms where innocent superheroes are railroaded into shame and silence by legalistic pearl-clutching busybodies" sequence has a very frivolous-lawsuits-are-choking-our-country's-geniuses lilt to it. It plays on McCarthyism for its imagery but you're immediately supposed to sympathize with the defendants and recognize that the reason they're in there in the first place (the suicide guy who pivots to suing for a fat payday) is ludicrous but leads inevitably down a slippery slope of GOVERNMENT OVERREACH.
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Sep 5, 2023 02:56
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Screenshotting this whole page of posts and posting it on the Wikipedia article for "bad faith"
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Sep 5, 2023 03:52
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So many words just to say Underminer did nothing wrong.
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Sep 5, 2023 04:07
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doomrider7 posted:The comic series 52 had Superman depowered for an entire year in which Lex could have made good on his word and done all the awesome "improve the world and push humanity forward" stuff he goes in about. He pretty much wastes the year on anti-superman schemes and giving people artificial temporary super powers to people as part of said scheme. First thing Supes when he comes back was to sarcastically ask him how that cure for cancer was coming along. From each according to his ability
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Sep 5, 2023 04:08
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Data Graham posted:Oh yeah, I meant to mention that one too. The whole "black-and-white courtrooms where innocent superheroes are railroaded into shame and silence by legalistic pearl-clutching busybodies" sequence has a very frivolous-lawsuits-are-choking-our-country's-geniuses lilt to it. It plays on McCarthyism for its imagery but you're immediately supposed to sympathize with the defendants and recognize that the reason they're in there in the first place (the suicide guy who pivots to suing for a fat payday) is ludicrous but leads inevitably down a slippery slope of GOVERNMENT OVERREACH. mycot posted:That was Samantha Brown, and from the indie comic Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose, which is completely bugfuck insane.
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Sep 5, 2023 05:19
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Where does Mr.Skipperdoo fit in all this
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Sep 5, 2023 05:27
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Don't sleep on this
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Sep 5, 2023 05:31
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Captain Invincible owns for this scene alone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9se8i4ujs
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Sep 5, 2023 05:35
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CelticPredator posted:Captain Invincible owns for this scene alone Holy poo poo if I was just hearing the audio I'd be convinced this was some gritty Bakshi animated musical number.
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Sep 5, 2023 06:00
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doomrider7 posted:
Yeah, Bob's strength (and flaw) is the pressure to be the "strongest". Part of it is probably ego, but another part of it is likely feeling like a failure for not being able to do it all on his own. Working as a 'team' implies he's not good enough on his own. He of course comes to term with this eventually. The burning building scene was great because it also illustrated the limitations of his powers (and Frozone). He couldn't just Kool Aid man his way through the building and Frozone's ice powers didn't have enough ambient humidity to be effective. Finally, I feel like the scene with the Insuracare boss was also a nice power fantasy to give to people. Here he is, a superhero, watching helplessly as a person gets robbed. His boss is tiny of stature but abrasive and loud. He has what I assume are Bob's termination papers on his desk and at one point is scooting them in Bob's direction like he's tugging on the pin of a hand grenade. At one point he grabs Bob's face and yanks it in his direction, maintaining eye contact. You'll also note that Bob doesn't flip out at the manager until the guy makes a comment about the burglar getting away. Now of course Bob is very privileged. The manager, in the hospital from getting yeeted through a wall by Bob, is likely mind wiped. The govt pretty much covers up the whole incident, and Helen doesn't find out he got terminated until weeks later, when he's captured by Syndrome. There's no legal ramifications to assaulting his manager. Us normies would just have to stand there in impotent rage in that office, but Bob has the power to do something about it. Maybe not the right thing to do, but the understandable thing to do. And it's a part of a recurring theme with Bob that kind of brings out the worst of him that there's people in his world like the boss and Syndrome going out of their way to drag Bob down and make him feel small and weak. Syndromes torture of him is an extension of that, threatening his family and calling his bluff when he threatens to crush mirage.
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Sep 5, 2023 06:24
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Pixeltendo posted:Where does Mr.Skipperdoo fit in all this IIRC the in-universe cartoon does have Frozone whitewashed into a tan-skinned beatnik, just for some extra social comentary. FunkyAl posted:Building a machine, or machines that emulate superpowers, to be sold for a profit by a large, private corporation, feels like predictive commentary about midjourmey and chatgpt. Or possibly just the Pixar corporation circa 2004, I don't know what brad bird saw. There's a few takes on that I've seen. The take as superheroes being creative people in this metaphor forced out of the industry into jobs where they don't get to use their talents seems a relatively easy and probably partly intended one. The Fountainhead is the one Rand story that resonates with a lot of people probably accidentally, specifically because it's about creative professionals having their designs hosed about with by ignorant suits (the people who would be the protagonists of other Ayn Rand stories, lol) and then blaming the creator for problems with it rather obviously strikes a chord with a lot of people in the industries. There's also maybe something to the supers being a minority culture that's oppressed and appropriated. Also the Underminer immediately reappearing when superheroes do just makes me think of Venture Bros where the supervillains just don't find it any fun if they don't have superheroes to fight. And the sequel imo could be seen as reinforcing the socialist narrative; the villain being a spiteful rich person who wants an entire support system destroyed just because it failed her one time due to overreliance, which seems like the flipside of 'I once saw a welfare queen buying lobster and steak with food stamps'.
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Sep 5, 2023 06:36
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Panfilo posted:Yeah, Bob's strength (and flaw) is the pressure to be the "strongest". Part of it is probably ego, but another part of it is likely feeling like a failure for not being able to do it all on his own. Working as a 'team' implies he's not good enough on his own. He of course comes to term with this eventually. The papers were a form on a new company policy that employee materials like pens, paper, clips, etc., will now be deducted from employee salaries. It's why he makes the disgusted face. It's also not just being made to feel small, but also powerless to do something about things that offend him like being prevented from stopping a mugging by his lovely boss who then brags about how it's a good thing they weren't covering the guy and how the incident might cause him to hire their services.
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Sep 5, 2023 07:04
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I just find it incredibly suspicious that both Incredibles movies have villains who are normal people angry with how the world loves superheroes.
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Sep 5, 2023 07:05
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