USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The quote in the post you quoted literally says she wants them to stop being a cult.

I'd appreciate if you could read and respond to the rest of my post, or at least the sentence immediately following the one you selectively quoted. The problem is that she also said that the country needs a strong Republican party. She could have just not said that.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 19:34

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# ? May 27, 2024 03:08

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Congressional Republicans are threatening to let the Bush PEPFAR program, that delivers anti-HIV medication and education to Africa, expire because the Biden administration changed a rule that prevented money from going to organizations that also advise patients about or perform abortions.

None of the PEPFAR money actually goes to abortions, but they are upset that health clinics that advise patients on abortions or perform abortions could receive money to distribute HIV treatment drugs to their patients and therefore the money is indirectly supporting abortion in Africa.

Several major pro-life groups are also now saying they will count a vote in favor of PEPFAR reauthorization as a "pro-choice/pro-abortion" vote on their pro-life scorecard for this year as well.

The Politico article is also an amazing example of both sides-ism and passive voice.

"Republicans claim that the money will be used to fund abortions, a charge the Biden administration, the program�s leaders and outside experts say is not true."

https://twitter.com/politico/status/1699060797631312092

quote:

Congress is almost certain to blow past a Sept. 30 deadline to re-up the law governing the United States� global HIV/AIDS relief work as the widely praised program becomes mired in the fight over abortion.

Money for the program would continue so long as Congress keeps the government funded � an increasingly uncertain prospect as members with competing demands begin returning this week. But lawmakers in both parties see no clear path for reviving the law by the end of the year. While the program would limp on, the impasse threatens to turn an initiative credited with saving 25 million lives into an annual political battle, making it far more difficult for groups fighting HIV and AIDS to hire staff or launch long-term projects.

GOP House members and conservative advocates allege that some of PEPFAR�s nearly $7 billion annual budget flows to abortion providers � a charge the Biden administration, the program�s leaders and outside experts vehemently deny.

Congress is almost certain to blow past a Sept. 30 deadline to re-up the law governing the United States� global HIV/AIDS relief work as the widely praised program becomes mired in the fight over abortion.

Money for the program would continue so long as Congress keeps the government funded � an increasingly uncertain prospect as members with competing demands begin returning this week. But lawmakers in both parties see no clear path for reviving the law by the end of the year. While the program would limp on, the impasse threatens to turn an initiative credited with saving 25 million lives into an annual political battle, making it far more difficult for groups fighting HIV and AIDS to hire staff or launch long-term projects.

�For 20 years, we�ve passed clean reauthorizations on a bipartisan basis to keep this program running, and this September we�re at risk of it lapsing,� said Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), a coauthor of the law that created the President�s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief during the George W. Bush administration.
call
She is also the top Democrat on the Appropriations panel that controls the program�s budget, and she plans a lobbying blitz when the House returns in mid-September targeting members elected since the program, commonly called PEPFAR, launched in 2003.

GOP House members and conservative advocates allege that some of PEPFAR�s nearly $7 billion annual budget flows to abortion providers � a charge the Biden administration, the program�s leaders and outside experts vehemently deny.

Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.), who leads the House�s global health subcommittee that controls PEPFAR, is leading the charge against renewing the program until anti-abortion restrictions the Biden administration lifted in 2021 are reinstated. Those restrictions would block groups that receive PEPFAR funds from using other sources of money to provide abortions or even discuss them as an option.

Smith told POLITICO that he partnered with Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-Miss.) and other Capitol Hill conservatives to lobby fellow Republicans in both chambers over the August recess, and said two arguments they made resonated with members. The first is that PEPFAR would have funding to operate even if the law governing the program lapses, and the second is that the Biden administration has �hijacked� the program to support abortion access overseas.

�That�s the gee-whiz moment that�s happening when I have conversations with people who do believe in the sanctity of life,� Smith said. �I�m encouraged that within two or three minutes of a conversation people would say, �That�s not what we signed up for. We signed up to go after HIV and AIDS aggressively and effectively, not to have a diversion of priority to abortion on demand.��

The fight over the landmark program combating AIDS and HIV, the virus that causes it, in the developing world comes amid a broader GOP effort to draw more federal programs into the abortion wars. House Republicans have, for instance, tucked anti-abortion language into nearly every corner of the appropriations process, setting up a showdown with the Senate and White House that could lead to a government shutdown. And in the Senate, Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) has for months blocked senior military promotions over the Pentagon�s new policy of reimbursing service members who travel to another state to obtain abortions and other reproductive services.

A spokesperson for Sen. Jim Risch (R-Idaho), the top Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, which oversees the program, confirmed to POLITICO that �ongoing confusion� among lawmakers about PEPFAR�s intersection with abortion makes it �unlikely� Congress will renew it before Sept. 30. The spokesperson pointed to several provisions that could expire as a result, such as a requirement that at least 10 percent of the program�s funds go to children orphaned by AIDS.

Groups who receive PEPFAR funds for projects across Africa, Asia and the Caribbean warn that Congress� failure to act would put the program at the mercy of Capitol Hill�s precarious spending fights, send the message that the U.S. is not committed to the fight against HIV and AIDS anymore, diminish American influence in regions where it�s competing with China and Russia and bring �human consequences� on the ground. According to a report from UNAIDS, there are roughly 39 million people living with HIV worldwide, including 1.3 million newly infected last year.

�Taking the foot off the gas at this point is so incredibly ill-advised,� said Asia Russell, the executive director of the Health Global Access Project. �The Biden administration got elected asserting that it would be the administration to put the global HIV response back on track to defeat HIV as a public health threat by 2030. And this would completely derail and break that political commitment.�

Adrienne Watson, spokesperson for the National Security Council, said in an email that the administration will continue to work with both parties to �sustain the bipartisan legacy� and pass a five-year PEPFAR reauthorization before the current authorization expires at the end of September.

Some program supporters, including Senate Foreign Relations Chair Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), told POLITICO they are hoping to do so with a standalone vote on the program.

�Based on my conversations with some Republicans on the committee, they would be in support of moving PEPFAR forward,� he said in late July. �And I think if it was put up for a vote, it would have broad bipartisan support.�

But several Hill staffers and outside groups said that they anticipate this effort to fail and said the program�s best hope is to hitch a ride on an expected omnibus spending bill in December, which would give Republicans the cover of voting for it in a bigger package rather than on its own. Whether an omnibus will come together, however, remains in doubt given the impasse over abortion provisions.

With only a handful of legislative days before the Sept. 30 deadline, a lobbying frenzy has sprung up, with groups like Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America diving into the fight for the first time and threatening to score a vote on any PEPFAR bill that doesn�t include anti-abortion restrictions.

�PEPFAR should be solely focused on saving lives, not taking them,� said the group�s vice president of public policy, Autumn Christensen. �A �clean� five-year authorization would give a stamp of approval to the administration�s partisan and divisive effort to incorporate abortion into the PEPFAR program.�

The National Right to Life Committee and Family Research Council are also lobbying against a five-year renewal, while Planned Parenthood, the Human Rights Campaign, ONE Campaign, CARE Action and UNICEF USA are trying to push it through. UNICEF hired the top lobbying firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, which has former Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.), an original PEPFAR architect, and Ed Pagano, who was President Barack Obama�s liaison to the Senate and a longtime aide to then-Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), on the contract.

Former Sen. Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), who shepherded the program when he was majority leader in 2003 and now works for the Bipartisan Policy Center, has been working the phones to change skeptical lawmakers� minds, hosting briefings on Capitol Hill and writing op-eds, arguing that PEPFAR has national security as well as humanitarian value.

�Allowing a significant lapse in the program would erode our international standing at a time when we are in a geopolitical competition with China and Russia,� he said. �Throughout our country�s history, no initiative has had a more profound impact or saved more lives around the world than PEPFAR.�

Though Frist said he�s confident �cooler heads will prevail as the deadline approaches,� he is spending time combating a hardening opposition within his own party.

�In response to assertions that PEPFAR supports abortion, I�ve seen no evidence to support that claim,� he said. �On the contrary, the program gives the children of HIV-positive mothers an opportunity for a life full of promise.�

There is little indication these arguments are making headway.

In the House, with the support of anti-abortion groups, Smith is leading the effort against a five-year reauthorization and in favor of a one-year funding patch to keep PEPFAR afloat until, he hopes, a future GOP president can reimpose anti-abortion restrictions.

In an interview, Smith waved away concerns that the program is in peril as a �false narrative� � pointing to several other major government programs that have continued on autopilot years after their authorizations expired. PEPFAR also briefly lapsed in 2013 and 2018, but laws to extend it ultimately passed during those calendar years.

�Some of these activists are telling members of Congress that it all ends on September 30th, but it�s just not true,� he said. �What planet are they on?�

�It�s not unlike the debt ceiling, when we�re constantly holding people hostage,� said Dr. Joia Mukherjee, the chief medical officer for the international relief group Partners in Health who has run programs in Haiti, Rwanda, Lesotho, Malawi, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Peru, Mexico, Russia, Kazakhstan and the Navajo Nation. �The successful treatment of HIV/AIDS depends on people staying on medicines for life. And so the idea that this would be put back into this political sphere over and over again is just maddening.�

Failing to renew PEPFAR would also bar Congress from increasing its budget, and could terminate several legal provisions in the program � including a rule that directs at least half of PEPFAR funds toward patient treatment and care. Presidential administrations could continue abiding by those rules or drop them.

The fight also comes amid a broader spending standoff and mounting fears of a government shutdown, which senior House Democratic staffers noted would harm PEPFAR if it lasted more than a couple days.

�No new grants or contracts would be able to be signed,� said one aide granted anonymity to discuss the delicate PEPFAR negotiations. �And a shutdown of longer duration could definitely have an impact on the ability to procure commodities and continue health services.�

Advocates also say a lapse in authorization, even a temporary one, would come at a particularly bad time in the global war on the disease. UNAIDS reported last year that Covid-19 caused widespread disruptions in health services, which reversed progress against HIV and AIDS in some regions, including eastern and southern Africa, and fueled a rise in new infections.

�AIDS is still an emergency,� said Russell. �There is more than one preventable AIDS death every minute around the world even though we have biomedical and structural interventions that could make this a thing of the past.�

# ? Sep 5, 2023 19:43

shimmy shimmy: Nov 13, 2020

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

- If they can't pick Trump, then Ron DeSantis is the significant favorite second choice of Republican voters with 35%.

Vivek Ramaswamy is second with 16%.

Sounds like DeSantis has this in the bag just as soon as a pre-impeachment ruling comes down from the Senate.

Any day now.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 19:48

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Congressional Republicans are threatening to let the Bush PEPFAR program, that delivers anti-HIV medication and education to Africa, expire because the Biden administration changed a rule that prevented money from going to organizations that also advise patients about or perform abortions.

None of the PEPFAR money actually goes to abortions, but they are upset that health clinics that advise patients on abortions or perform abortions could receive money to distribute HIV treatment drugs to their patients and therefore the money is indirectly supporting abortion in Africa.

Several major pro-life groups are also now saying they will count a vote in favor of PEPFAR reauthorization as a "pro-choice/pro-abortion" vote on their pro-life scorecard for this year as well.

The Politico article is also an amazing example of both sides-ism and passive voice.

"Republicans claim that the money will be used to fund abortions, a charge the Biden administration, the program�s leaders and outside experts say is not true."

https://twitter.com/politico/status/1699060797631312092

it's my understanding that pepfar is one of the few things we do that actually builds good will for us in africa, seems like this would be a pretty major blow to our foreign policy efforts on the continent for some culture war signaling the average gop voter won't even hear about

# ? Sep 5, 2023 19:52

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

it's my understanding that pepfar is one of the few things we do that actually builds good will for us in africa, seems like this would be a pretty major blow to our foreign policy efforts on the continent for some culture war signaling the average gop voter won't even hear about

Part of Trump's appeal to his voters is that he wants to discontinue US support for the rest of the world. This 100% plays into that - that money could be going to good GOP causes like school vouchers and tax breaks for billionaires.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 19:58

Skex: Feb 22, 2012; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

it's my understanding that pepfar is one of the few things we do that actually builds good will for us in africa, seems like this would be a pretty major blow to our foreign policy efforts on the continent for some culture war signaling the average gop voter won't even hear about

Everything Republicans do makes America weaker. This is very on brand for the "America First" party that always puts Americans last.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:11

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

it's also one of the few decent things the second bush did in between his litany of horrors, so seems on brand for the modern gop to feel fine with getting rid of it

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:14

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Skex posted:

Everything Republicans do makes America weaker. This is very on brand for the "America First" party that always puts Americans last.

I gotta be real when I hear that America is losing influence or power, I immediately pivot to hoping that this makes life easier for a working person somewhere.

If I lived in the global south getting the US out of my business would pretty much always be a plus. It sucks that they�re doing this to aid programs, no doubt, but the idea that these programs build American power is a sick byproduct that leans on the idea that they give us power because we could take them away, or carefully control what groups benefit from them and who we withhold them from.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:14

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

it's my understanding that pepfar is one of the few things we do that actually builds good will for us in africa, seems like this would be a pretty major blow to our foreign policy efforts on the continent for some culture war signaling the average gop voter won't even hear about

I have it on good authority that those are all shithole countries anyway

Seriously, though, I'm not all that surprised that the Mexico City policy is next on the "poo poo or get off the pot" list. Both sides are tired of it being reversed every 4-8 years and one side is seizing the initiative to nail it permanently to their preferred option

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:15

Quixzlizx: Jan 7, 2007

selec posted:

I gotta be real when I hear that America is losing influence or power, I immediately pivot to hoping that this makes life easier for a working person somewhere.

If I lived in the global south getting the US out of my business would pretty much always be a plus. It sucks that they�re doing this to aid programs, no doubt, but the idea that these programs build American power is a sick byproduct that leans on the idea that they give us power because we could take them away, or carefully control what groups benefit from them and who we withhold them from.

Things will surely improve when our benevolent CCP and/or Wagner friends arrive.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:16

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

The controversial Superintendent of Oklahoma State Schools (who even has other Republicans opposing some of his measures) has announced that public schools in Oklahoma will be partnering with PragerU kids to provide "pro-American" content for schools in Oklahoma.

PragerU kids famously features a lesson where Fredrick Douglas explains why the Black Lives Matter movement is wrong, accuses the North of seeking war instead of negotiating to prevent the civil war, and explains why confederate generals weren't racist.

Superintendent Ryan Walters is also currently attempting to form the first public Christian school in Oklahoma and the case is already going to the Supreme Court before the school even begins accepting students.

https://twitter.com/RyanWaltersSupt/status/1699090720831783324

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:18

Yiggy: Sep 12, 2004; "Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

it's my understanding that pepfar is one of the few things we do that actually builds good will for us in africa, seems like this would be a pretty major blow to our foreign policy efforts on the continent for some culture war signaling the average gop voter won't even hear about

It�s a perennial issue that voters, most of them low info, vastly overestimate the portion of the federal budget on foreign aid. And so it is regularly a campaign talking point for conservatives to cut foreign aid, because it�s red meat for the base and because in reality it�s not hard to gum up the pittance in funding we allot for that and chalk up a �win� for the base. Saying they did something big when really it was just petty.

https://www.fic.nih.gov/News/Global...nt%20or%20less.

quote:

U.S. funding for global health has hovered at around $10 billion since Fiscal Year 2010. An additional $3.7 billion was allocated in FY 2015 for the Ebola response.

The Kaiser poll found that Americans think, on average, that nearly a third of the federal budget goes to foreign aid. Only three percent correctly stated that the actual budget allocation for foreign aid is 1 percent or less.

They actually will hear about it if only because demagogues never stop messaging on it.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:24

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Quixzlizx posted:

Things will surely improve when our benevolent CCP and/or Wagner friends arrive.

I mean, there�s a (maybe apocryphal) quote from a Kenyan politician that goes something like �when the British come here we get lectures, when the Chinese come here we get hospitals� so the Anglosphere could definitely take some pointers on how to properly do some imperialism in this millennium. Cuba�s soft power via doctors is another great example of supposedly oppressive states outclassing the The Land of the Free when it comes to outreach.

We are way too gun-and-debt forward, probably feels like an MLM sale when you meet with our diplomats.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:25

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Fister Roboto posted:

She could have just said she wants the GOP to stop being a cult then. Saying that the US needs a strong Republican party is unnecessary, because it's a completely independent idea from them not being a cult.

Obviously neither of us can read her mind and figure out what she really meant, but we can certainly make an educated guess based on her and her party's actions. We know that she's very wealthy, so she's not affected by the same material concerns about having a strong Republican party as most other people are. We know that she's been hostile to the left wing of her party in the past, and supportive of the right wing (remember she actively campaigned for a pro-gun anti-abortion Democrat against his leftist primary opponent).

But to be fair, my interpretation is pretty close to yours. I think that she does want the GOP to stop being unhinged psychos, mostly because she has been personally affected by an unhinged psycho trying to beat her husband to death with a hammer. But the problem with that is back when the Republicans were "reasonable opposition," they were still psychos, just of the hinged variety. You could surmise that she wants them to go back to speaking in dogwhistles and saying all the right platitudes that make them seem normal and respectable. And I think that that is naive at best.

You're missing a key piece of context: in a democratic country, it's generally a bad thing for the leader of the legislature to imply or say that the opposition parties should be ineffectually weak or cease to exist altogether. Not only is it bad for the health of the democratic system as a whole, but it also tends to be harmful for their party's electoral chances in areas where the voters hold some level of respect for the opposition parties.

As such, there are various political reasons why a party leader might insincerely say nice things about the political opposition, even as they work hard to defeat that party. This is especially true given the particular dynamics of the American political system, a two-party system in which it is very rare for a party to be completely destroyed and replaced.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:33

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Main Paineframe posted:

Not a chance in hell. Even if such a rule existed, inventing a technicality to disqualify the guy who is by far the most popular choice for the nomination would be political suicide (and possibly also actual suicide, given how militant his diehard base is).

They should just go to the classics such as Shakespeare and see what the O.G. republicans did to Caesar.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 20:54

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Main Paineframe posted:

You're missing a key piece of context: in a democratic country, it's generally a bad thing for the leader of the legislature to imply or say that the opposition parties should be ineffectually weak or cease to exist altogether. Not only is it bad for the health of the democratic system as a whole, but it also tends to be harmful for their party's electoral chances in areas where the voters hold some level of respect for the opposition parties.

As such, there are various political reasons why a party leader might insincerely say nice things about the political opposition, even as they work hard to defeat that party. This is especially true given the particular dynamics of the American political system, a two-party system in which it is very rare for a party to be completely destroyed and replaced.

There are a lot of things wrong with this.

First of all, I didn't say that she needed to say that the GOP should be weak or cease to exist. I said that she shouldn't have said that the country needs a strong GOP. Sometimes not saying something is the best course of action.

Second, you're conflating the general and specific cases. Yes, it would be bad for a politician to say that all opposition parties in general should be weak or cease to exist. No, it's not bad to say that the GOP specifically should be weak or cease to exist. Because the GOP are fascists. Fascists should be weak or not exist.

Third, there are plenty of other opposition parties out there other than the Democrats and GOP. And they've all been made ineffectually weak or nonexistent by the two big parties. Is that not unhealthy for democracy?

Finally, yes, I know there are political reasons why she would say this. That doesn't mean it's not valid to criticize her for it.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 21:00

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

U.S. demand for the new blockbuster weight loss drug WeGovy is so high that the Danish company that produces it (Novo Nordisk) has taken in so many U.S. dollars that it has become the most valuable company in all of Europe and the Danish government is having to intervene to stabilize the price of the Danish Kroner due to all the foreign currency coming in to the country.

The company is now worth nearly half a trillion dollars.

https://twitter.com/cnni/status/1699150476757930388
https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1692360992506761374

quote:

Novo Nordisk has dethroned Bernard Arnault�s luxury goods giant LVMH as Europe�s most valuable company.

Shares of the Danish drugmaker have soared 40% so far this year, boosted by an explosion in demand for its weight-loss drugs Wegovy and Ozempic.

At the close of trading Monday, Novo Nordisk (NVO) had a market capitalization of 2.96 trillion Danish krone ($428 billion). LVMH�s market value was around $416 billion. The French firm � which sells Louis Vuitton handbags and Hennessy cognac � has been hurt by the slowing Chinese economy. Its stock has dropped 8% over the past six months, trimming this year�s gains to 12%.

Sales of Wegovy and Ozempic have skyrocketed in recent months. Ozempic is a drug developed to treat type 2 diabetes that contains the same active ingredient as Wegovy, and which some physicians have prescribed to patients to help them lose weight.

Novo Nordisk notched another gain Monday when the company announced that Wegovy would now be available in the UK �through a controlled and limited launch.�

England�s taxpayer-funded National Health Service � an enormous buyer of medicines � confirmed that it would make Wegovy available �as an option� for weight management. Availability will be limited to patients with �at least one� weight-related condition, such as hypertension or cardiovascular disease.

�Wegovy�s launch has the potential to help thousands and reduce the number suffering from weight-related illnesses,� UK Health and Social Care Minister Steve Barclay posted on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter. �This new generation of medicines [has] the potential to be a game-changer.�

�Scratching the surface�

Novo Nordisk is already struggling to keep pace with runaway demand for Wegovy, which clinical trials have shown can help people lose 15% of their body weight after less than 16 months. Recently published results of a five-year trial on the impact of Wegovy on cardiovascular disease also showed the drug reduced the risk of heart attack, stroke or heart-related death by 20%.

Wegovy is currently available in only a handful of countries outside the United States, but the company is already boosting production and on Monday said it expects supply to be �constrained for the foreseeable future.�

According to the World Health Organization, more than one billion people worldwide are obese, meaning they have a body mass index (BMI) above 30.

�We are just scratching the surface,� Novo Nordisk CEO Lars Fruergaard J�rgensen told CNN�s Meg Tirrell in a recent interview. �I have the sense that it could actually take quite some years before we have actually fulfilled the demand out there.�

The company is investing billions of dollars to increase capacity and running its factories, �24/7,� he added.

Novo Nordisk has raked in almost 49 billion Danish krone ($7 billion) in profit over the first six months of this year, up 30% from the same period in 2022.

Booming sales of its drugs have led to an influx of US dollars into Denmark�s economy, pushing up the value of the Danish krone. Denmark�s central bank has responded by keeping interest rates below those set by the European Central Bank, discouraging foreigners from buying krone and reducing the value of the currency.

The company is forecasting even stronger growth to come. It now expects its profits to increase by up to 37% this year, much higher than the maximum 19% rise it forecast in February.

Not everyone is convinced that growth will translate into further gains for Novo Nordisk�s stock. Analysts at UBS reiterated their recommendation to sell the shares in a research note published Tuesday, citing uncertainty over the willingness of health providers to pay for Wegovy.

Limited healthcare budgets mean �patient flow in obesity is likely to become increasingly restricted,� they said.

�We do not debate the fact that the world is challenged by obesity� rather, we argue that the problem is too complex, and today�s pharmacology too expensive, to offer sensible health-economics.�

# ? Sep 5, 2023 21:09

Quixzlizx: Jan 7, 2007

selec posted:

I mean, there�s a (maybe apocryphal) quote from a Kenyan politician that goes something like �when the British come here we get lectures, when the Chinese come here we get hospitals� so the Anglosphere could definitely take some pointers on how to properly do some imperialism in this millennium. Cuba�s soft power via doctors is another great example of supposedly oppressive states outclassing the The Land of the Free when it comes to outreach.

We are way too gun-and-debt forward, probably feels like an MLM sale when you meet with our diplomats.

The CCP also wants to flat out own as much of the infrastructure and farmland of a client country as possible, which doesn't strike me as particularly benevolent.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 21:11

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

selec posted:

I mean, there�s a (maybe apocryphal) quote from a Kenyan politician that goes something like �when the British come here we get lectures, when the Chinese come here we get hospitals� so the Anglosphere could definitely take some pointers on how to properly do some imperialism in this millennium. Cuba�s soft power via doctors is another great example of supposedly oppressive states outclassing the The Land of the Free when it comes to outreach.

We are way too gun-and-debt forward, probably feels like an MLM sale when you meet with our diplomats.

Quixzlizx posted:

The CCP also wants to flat out own as much of the infrastructure and farmland of a client country as possible, which doesn't strike me as particularly benevolent.

This. If you believe the US is predatory when it comes to foreign lending, do some reading on China.

China�s loans pushing world�s poorest countries to brink of collapse

AP News posted:

A dozen poor countries are facing economic instability and even collapse under the weight of hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign loans, much of them from the world�s biggest and most unforgiving government lender, China.

An Associated Press analysis of a dozen countries most indebted to China � including Pakistan, Kenya, Zambia, Laos and Mongolia � found paying back that debt is consuming an ever-greater amount of the tax revenue needed to keep schools open, provide electricity and pay for food and fuel. And it�s draining foreign currency reserves these countries use to pay interest on those loans, leaving some with just months before that money is gone.

Behind the scenes is China�s reluctance to forgive debt and its extreme secrecy about how much money it has loaned and on what terms, which has kept other major lenders from stepping in to help. On top of that is the recent discovery that borrowers have been required to put cash in hidden escrow accounts that push China to the front of the line of creditors to be paid.

Countries in AP�s analysis had as much as 50% of their foreign loans from China and most were devoting more than a third of government revenue to paying off foreign debt. Two of them, Zambia and Sri Lanka, have already gone into default, unable to make even interest payments on loans financing the construction of ports, mines and power plants.

In Pakistan, millions of textile workers have been laid off because the country has too much foreign debt and can�t afford to keep the electricity on and machines running.

In Kenya, the government has held back paychecks to thousands of civil service workers to save cash to pay foreign loans. The president�s chief economic adviser tweeted last month, �Salaries or default? Take your pick.�

Since Sri Lanka defaulted a year ago, a half-million industrial jobs have vanished, inflation has pierced 50% and more than half the population in many parts of the country has fallen into poverty.

A case study of how it has played out is in Zambia, a landlocked country of 20 million people in southern Africa that over the past two decades has borrowed billions of dollars from Chinese state-owned banks to build dams, railways and roads.

The loans boosted Zambia�s economy but also raised foreign interest payments so high there was little left for the government, forcing it to cut spending on healthcare, social services and subsidies to farmers for seed and fertilizer.

In the past under such circumstances, big government lenders such as the U.S., Japan and France would work out deals to forgive some debt, with each lender disclosing clearly what they were owed and on what terms so no one would feel cheated.

But China didn�t play by those rules. It refused at first to even join in multinational talks, negotiating separately with Zambia and insisting on confidentiality that barred the country from telling non-Chinese lenders the terms of the loans and whether China had devised a way of muscling to the front of the repayment line.

Amid this confusion in 2020, a group of non-Chinese lenders refused desperate pleas from Zambia to suspend interest payments, even for a few months. That refusal added to the drain on Zambia�s foreign cash reserves, the stash of mostly U.S. dollars that it used to pay interest on loans and to buy major commodities like oil. By November 2020, with little reserves left, Zambia stopped paying the interest and defaulted, locking it out of future borrowing and setting off a vicious cycle of spending cuts and deepening poverty.

Inflation in Zambia has since soared 50%, unemployment has hit a 17-year high and the nation�s currency, the kwacha, has lost 30% of its value in just seven months. A United Nations estimate of Zambians not getting enough food has nearly tripled so far this year, to 3.5 million.

�I just sit in the house thinking what I will eat because I have no money to buy food,� said Marvis Kunda, a blind 70-year-old widow in Zambia�s Luapula province whose welfare payments were recently slashed. �Sometimes I eat once a day and if no one remembers to help me with food from the neighborhood, then I just starve.�

A few months after Zambia defaulted, researchers found that it owed $6.6 billion to Chinese state-owned banks, double what many thought at the time and about a third of the country�s total debt.

�We�re flying blind,� said Brad Parks, executive director of AidData, a research lab at William & Mary that has uncovered thousands of secret Chinese loans and assisted the AP in its analysis. �When you look under the cushions of the couch, suddenly you realize, �Oh, there�s a lot of stuff we missed. And actually things are much worse.��

More details in the full article, but the whole thing is worth a read. Something not mentioned in the article is that unlike loans from other sources, when China finances major infrastructure projects in other countries, they often bring in their own engineering and construction firms to design and build it. Instead of building the local economy with jobs, which is far more beneficial, they effectively claw most of the money back. The recipient country winds up saddled with a lot of debt, and a dam or port, but no lasting economic improvement.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 21:35

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; Can't post for 13 hours!

This is the apparent source for that quote. Why are we doing this. Why do we have to engage with "maybe apocryphal" unattributed quotes from random-rear end italian twitter accounts mainlining Chinese and Russian propaganda outlets. In the US Current Events thread.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Sep 5, 2023

# ? Sep 5, 2023 21:47

Magic Underwear: May 14, 2003; Young Orc

selec posted:

I gotta be real when I hear that America is losing influence or power, I immediately pivot to hoping that this makes life easier for a working person somewhere.

If I lived in the global south getting the US out of my business would pretty much always be a plus. It sucks that they�re doing this to aid programs, no doubt, but the idea that these programs build American power is a sick byproduct that leans on the idea that they give us power because we could take them away, or carefully control what groups benefit from them and who we withhold them from.

If you think any country delivers foreign aid without discrimination or without its own interests in mind you're truly naive. Democratic countries in particular are beholden to the electorate but all countries have limited resources that they want to use effectively to further some particular national goals. What is the true and correct model for foreign aid in your opinion? Which country is building a global workers paradise again?

It feels pretty keyboard warrior to say that if you were dirt poor you'd prefer nothing to US aid. I very much doubt that sick poor people getting medicine from us would rather the us stay out of their business and let them die of aids in peace. Of all the ways to attack the us I don't feel that foreign aid is the best angle.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 22:05

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Michigan passing safe storage law for firearms is awesome. It�s s great practical gun control measure that is proven to help.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 22:22

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

Quixzlizx posted:

The CCP also wants to flat out own as much of the infrastructure and farmland of a client country as possible, which doesn't strike me as particularly benevolent.

Isn't that what we do, and why the term "banana republic" even exists? Hell, we straight-up annexed Hawaii.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 22:31

Quixzlizx: Jan 7, 2007

Byzantine posted:

Isn't that what we do, and why the term "banana republic" even exists? Hell, we straight-up annexed Hawaii.

So CCP imperialism has evolved all the way to Victorian age Western imperialism, and that's supposed to be some sort of own?

# ? Sep 5, 2023 22:40

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

Quixzlizx posted:

So CCP imperialism has evolved all the way to Victorian age Western imperialism, and that's supposed to be some sort of own?

We couped Bolivia four years ago to get at them sweet sweet resources. It's not an own, it's a quit pretending we're The Good Guys, not like those dastardly Orientals who try to control resources.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 22:49

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Fister Roboto posted:

There are a lot of things wrong with this.

First of all, I didn't say that she needed to say that the GOP should be weak or cease to exist. I said that she shouldn't have said that the country needs a strong GOP. Sometimes not saying something is the best course of action.

Second, you're conflating the general and specific cases. Yes, it would be bad for a politician to say that all opposition parties in general should be weak or cease to exist. No, it's not bad to say that the GOP specifically should be weak or cease to exist. Because the GOP are fascists. Fascists should be weak or not exist.

Third, there are plenty of other opposition parties out there other than the Democrats and GOP. And they've all been made ineffectually weak or nonexistent by the two big parties. Is that not unhealthy for democracy?

Finally, yes, I know there are political reasons why she would say this. That doesn't mean it's not valid to criticize her for it.

First, as I said, there are various political reasons why a party leader might insincerely say nice things about the political opposition, even as they work hard to defeat that party. Especially when that party is absolutely not going anywhere, period.

Second, the GOP specifically is not an inherently fascist party any more than any other right-wing party would be. Dismantling the GOP and replacing them with the Libertarian Party wouldn't be any less fascist, because all the far-right people voting for fascists are just going to migrate to the new right-wing party.

Third, the two-party system was not created by the two parties themselves. While they certainly haven't played along with any theoretical ways to potentially reduce the absolute dominance of the two parties, it's quite an exaggeration to say it's their fault that third parties have few electoral prospects in the American system.

Finally, Nancy's statement there is an obvious lie told for very obvious and very practical political reasons. Trying to make it into an actual issue, especially an entire year later, just looks like fairly transparent grudge-holding. There's enough actual things to get mad about in American politics that we don't need to waste our time combing through TV appearances for out-of-context sentences that we can use to lay the groundwork for conspiracy theories. And yes, I think the implication that the entire Democratic Party nationwide are going to happily and willingly give up their own seats to the Republicans qualifies as conspiracy theory.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 22:55

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Quixzlizx posted:

So CCP imperialism has evolved all the way to Victorian age Western imperialism, and that's supposed to be some sort of own?

Is the implication here that the west is no longer imperialist? Because the way I see it, we�re better at imperialism than we�ve ever been. We have managed to move on from military conquest and forcing addictive substances on a country at gunpoint to doing those things via proxies and covert action. We�re not �better� but we certainly are better at accomplishing the same goals with much less obviously horrifying methods.

Have you read The Jakarta Method? We have been innovating in this space a long time and you can�t be mad that China saw a lot of the west�s actions and decided to iterate on our methods in a way that fit their goals.

I agree imperialism sucks, but if it�s a foregone conclusion (which statements like �if it�s not us it�ll be the CCP� seem to nod towards) then I�m not opposed to giving someone else the controller for a while. We�ve had it way past any reasonable window unless you have a religious or some other mystical belief that The West Deserves Our Place.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 23:05

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Byzantine posted:

We couped Bolivia four years ago to get at them sweet sweet resources. It's not an own, it's a quit pretending we're The Good Guys, not like those dastardly Orientals who try to control resources.

This is a weird and reductionist take on Bolivia, especially considering we sat on our hands / vaguely supported the fall of the coup government. Countries can sometimes have a little bit of their own agency. Yes, even in South America.

see also the interesting examples of Honduras (US government literally divided on it, some dod officials probably should have gotten canned) and Brazil (FBI helps lawfare Lula in the most indirect way possible, then when Bolsonaro loses election to him just recently the Biden admin tells Bolso to sit down and shut up)

# ? Sep 5, 2023 23:05

Quixzlizx: Jan 7, 2007

Byzantine posted:

We couped Bolivia four years ago to get at them sweet sweet resources. It's not an own, it's a quit pretending we're The Good Guys, not like those dastardly Orientals who try to control resources.

Putting aside whatever you're saying about Bolivia, which I'm not going to take your word on since anything that ever goes wrong in LA is a CIA plot according to a certain crowd, I never said that the US are the good guys, I was responding to someone who said that it would be great if the US stopped sending HIV medication to Africa because any American involvement anywhere is BAD, which is:

1. Reductive to a lazy degree. That kind of lazy analysis/worldview is what causes portions of the "anti-imperialist left" to become Z cheerleaders, supporting the definitely opposite of imperialist special military operation.
2. My OP pointed out that the US withdrawing its presence from a country would lead to the reaction of another imperialist nation increasing its influence, rather than resulting in some sort of utopia free from outside influence.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 23:15

celadon: Jan 2, 2023

The idea that western institutions don't set conditions on loans is also inaccurate. From an article on Zambia and Chinese funding:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/07/zambia-china-debt-imf-economy/ posted:

Accusations of debt-trap diplomacy often fail to take into account African leaders� choices as well as the unfavorable terms offered by Paris Club lenders. As the Guardian tells it, between 2002 and 2008 the value of Zambia�s mineral exports grew 500 percent, from $670 million to $4 billion, but it did not boost its tax revenue because Western and Indian commodity giants operating there were exempted from taxation on the recommendation of the IMF. (Zambia is Africa�s second-largest copper producer.)

Privatization and trade liberalization policies of state-owned companies were attached to the IMF debt relief package in the late 1990s. The privatization of the Zambian copper mining industry pushed by the IMF was accompanied by tax agreements with the new owners of the privatized mining assets between 1997 and 2004. This prevented the government from increasing the tax burden on each mining company for 15 to 20 years, despite copper prices increasing.

Some campaigners argue that the IMF deal should also not be used to pay Zambia�s bondholders in the West. Researchers Nicolas Lippolis and Harry Verhoeven wrote that �what really keeps African leaders awake at night is not Chinese debt traps. It is the whims of the bond market.�

The new IMF loan comes with strings attached. The IMF is expecting transparency on all former and future loans. Subsidies on fuel and in the agriculture sector are to end, which will directly impact poorer Zambians.

# ? Sep 5, 2023 23:16

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Main Paineframe posted:

Finally, Nancy's statement there is an obvious lie told for very obvious and very practical political reasons. Trying to make it into an actual issue, especially an entire year later, just looks like fairly transparent grudge-holding. There's enough actual things to get mad about in American politics that we don't need to waste our time combing through TV appearances for out-of-context sentences that we can use to lay the groundwork for conspiracy theories. And yes, I think the implication that the entire Democratic Party nationwide are going to happily and willingly give up their own seats to the Republicans qualifies as conspiracy theory.

Could you please not put words in my mouth? None of this is anything that I have ever argued. Where are you getting this implication from?

# ? Sep 5, 2023 23:47

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Not incredibly surprising, but roughly 7 in 10 Republicans said that Trump being convicted would have no impact on their support for him and only 13% said it would cause them to no longer support him.

A full majority (52% to 60%) have already ruled out ever supporting Pence, Christie, or Asa Hutchinson under any circumstances. Christie being the highest at 60%.

Asked to name their biggest worry about Trump as a candidate, the top three answers GOP voters provided were:

DeSantis is still in second place, but way behind. Vivek Ramaswamy is the only candidate to significantly increase their support - going from 1% to 6%. All other candidates basically stayed the same or fell.

Trump is still sitting at "only" around 50%, but despite about half of GOP voters saying they aren't 100% committed to him yet, nobody else is even close and DeSantis is still 34 points behind him.

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1699091674209677633

The most recent polls on a Trump v Biden 2 election are also disturbingly close

# ? Sep 6, 2023 00:43

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

celadon posted:

The idea that western institutions don't set conditions on loans is also inaccurate. From an article on Zambia and Chinese funding:

Sure it's an inaccurate idea, did anyone here actually say that though? I really don't like this general trend amongst leftist that imperialism is good or better as long as it's not American brand imperialism. We see it whenever China does anything in Africa, we see it with people bending over backwards to justify what Russia is doing even though someone doing the same for America in the same scenario would be rightfully shouted down.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 00:49

Crunch Buttsteak: Feb 26, 2007; You think reality is a circle of salt around my brain keeping witches out?

BiggerBoat posted:

The most recent polls on a Trump v Biden 2 election are also disturbingly close

Well duh, we're more than a year out from the election, and roughly half of the country is conservative, roughly half is liberal, and most voters don't really pay too close attention to things

Like I get it from a purely-intellectual "man I sure wish this indictment would have more of an impact on the voting public" perspective but anyone telling you to panic because Trump is definitely going to win now are either paid by a conservative think tank or someone with severe anxiety issues (and I say this as someone with pretty severe anxiety issues).

# ? Sep 6, 2023 00:52

Killer robot: Sep 6, 2010; I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!; Pillbug

Fister Roboto posted:

Could you please not put words in my mouth? None of this is anything that I have ever argued. Where are you getting this implication from?

That wasn't you, it was this post by the_steve that asserted that Democratic belief in "a strong Republican party" would prevent them from trying to squeeze Republicans out of seats.

the_steve posted:

Given that the sentiment among Democratic party politicians seems to be "Actually, we need a strong Republican party", I doubt it.

The whole thing doesn't require any view into Pelosi's heart of hearts: it only takes basic reading of the English language and a middle school civics class understanding of how the government works. The Republican party is not going to dissolve tomorrow, and even if it does the voters will still exist: having whatever exists to the right of the Democrats* believe in at least keeping the lights on and running on policies rather than violence is very much in the interests of Democratic legislators. Even the ones who oppose the policies of serious business Republicans. Saying "I want a strong opposition with real ideas I can respect rather than these jokers" is pretty transparent political talk of the "I want the to see my opponent fighting his best so when I knock him out there's no question I'm the best."

Democrats wanting to lose on purpose is dumb conspiracy theory in general, but on this specific issue that's beside the point. It's just that "Democrats want to keep the Republican party strong" is as dishonest a reading of Pelosi quotes as when the right-wingers said "Democrats want to pass Obamacare even though no one knows what's in it!" and it deserves as much consideration.

*The only ways a major party realignment creates a significant power bloc to the left of today's Democrats are if former Republican voters push the Democrats right, if there are significant changes in the beliefs of the electorate, or if the whole electoral system gets overhauled. There's no reason to believe Pelosi wants the first or expects the others.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 01:01

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Fister Roboto posted:

I'd appreciate if you could read and respond to the rest of my post, or at least the sentence immediately following the one you selectively quoted. The problem is that she also said that the country needs a strong Republican party. She could have just not said that.

And you�ll notice nowhere in the Pelosi quote does she say the Republican Party needs to win X many elections to be strong. For all we know in this context �strong� means morally strong or just hardened against fascism. It�s kind of hard to complain the_steve�s post our your take on this is being taken out of context when they�re not recognizing context either.

Like the whole thing is such penny ante poo poo anyway because I defy anyone to find anyone other than the terminally online who is aware and cares about what Pelosi said, and the terminally online will act exactly the same regardless.

yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Sep 6, 2023

# ? Sep 6, 2023 01:06

Bel Shazar: Sep 14, 2012

Main Paineframe posted:

Second, the GOP specifically is not an inherently fascist party any more than any other right-wing party would be.

It's true, any right-wing party is going to be fascist as gently caress.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 01:22

celadon: Jan 2, 2023

socialsecurity posted:

Sure it's an inaccurate idea, did anyone here actually say that though? I really don't like this general trend amongst leftist that imperialism is good or better as long as it's not American brand imperialism. We see it whenever China does anything in Africa, we see it with people bending over backwards to justify what Russia is doing even though someone doing the same for America in the same scenario would be rightfully shouted down.

The thesis of the AP article upthread is 'China is acting outside of international norms regarding lending, and as a result is immiserating developing nations and removing their sovereignty'. Chinese policy and actions as far as they diverge from existing international policies is what drives that story. When you are drawing attention to Chinese control of an infrastructure project as a result of a loan, the fact that other major lending institutes also heavily influence policies as a condition for loans undermines your thesis. If you believe influence over taxation is a completely different thing than influence over infrastructure, you'd have to defend that. If their interest rate is usurious but yours is reasonable, you'd need to put out some numbers and the historical context. So its very relevant to know exactly what is outside of the norm, here.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 01:50

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Bel Shazar posted:

It's true, any right-wing party is going to be fascist as gently caress.

Under the current conditions, that's definitely the case. In 2020, 74 million people turned out to cast their vote for thinly disguised fascism, and every indication so far suggests a substantial chunk of that number are willing to show up again in 2024 and vote for fascism that doesn't even bother disguising itself anymore. As long as that's the case, fascism isn't going away.

Even if the Republican Party magically ceases to exist tomorrow, the party that rises up to follow it will be one that's similarly appealing to those people. All the staffers and advisors from the former Republican Party will join that party too. Before long, it'd just be GOP Mark II, very similar except with a different name and a scrambled leadership slate.

Ultimately, the source of the political swing toward fascism in the US is not the Republican Party, or even Trump itself. It's the Republican voters (who in turn developed that stance thanks to the right-wing media outlets feeding them a steady diet of hate). Even Trump isn't really responsible for it - the rising tides of fascism were clearly visible a few years before 2016, Trump just demonstrated how high the waters had risen.

# ? Sep 6, 2023 02:18

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# ? May 27, 2024 03:08

Xand_Man: Mar 2, 2004; If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous

I think the only thing rhat *might* make it better is kneecapping Fox, and I'm not even sure that would do it by this point

# ? Sep 6, 2023 02:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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