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Phanatic posted:Note that that's not quite true. For acute situations, yes, but if you're chronically hypoxic your body switches mechanisms and does start measuring O2 levels via chemoreceptors in your central arteries for respiratory drive. You'll notice this if you go take a trip to a high enough altitude, you will definitely start to feel short of breath until you acclimate to the altitude even though the CO2 levels in your blood are normal. Athsmatics are another case where the respiratory drive is driven by hypoxia instead of hypercapnia. But it takes longer than a few minutes for that to happen. Neat, didn't know that. Most of my knowledge on the matter comes from caving and diving, with some stuff thrown in from pilots.
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Aug 30, 2023 10:36
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Busket Posket posted:Mea culpa! I was picturing a “we couldn’t figure out how to do an IV right, so we’re probably going to very much gently caress up this ‘humane’ execution in some horrific way” situation. But I didn’t make that clear, so the corrections were well-deserved! To be fair, they could just use a tank of CO2 instead of a tank of Nitrogen. That would not surprise me in the least.
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Aug 30, 2023 13:38
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With loving up lethal injections, they at least have the fig leaf of blaming it on the drugs/route of administration/administrating physician/etc for torturing people. With CO2, it would almost certainly go to the supreme court as a lawsuit for torturing someone to death.
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Aug 30, 2023 13:43
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Phanatic posted:I oppose the death penalty, but nitrogen hypoxia doesn't leave you struggling to breathe in anguish for several minutes. What acutely triggers your "holy poo poo I can't breathe" reflex isn't the level of O2 in your blood, but the level of CO2. That's one of the reason why oxygen-poor environments like caves or sealed-up chain lockers kill people: they don't feel any different or notice anything wrong until they don't have enough O2 in their blood to stay conscious, and then they just go down, and so does the person who climbs in after them to carry them out. Reminds me of the Lake Nyos disaster - scary poo poo how CO2 can take so many people out so quickly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster
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Aug 30, 2023 14:18
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I find it unnerving how much « humane » execution seems to focus on being humane to the executioner. I agree nitrogen hypoxia seems like the best way to go if you insist on executing people. But like, I’d much rather the guillotine or the ol’ Vasiliy Blokhin treatment over risking lethal injection or hanging. Those former are near instant and painless but thing is, they’re gory and might make the executioner/viewers feel bad. Execution is hosed up is what I’m saying
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Aug 30, 2023 15:39
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some people definitely deserve to die and I have no problem acknowledging that, but anyone living in America with functioning eyes and ears should know that the justice system absolutely cannot be trusted to convict the right people or mete out punishments appropriately. especially if you read this thread, lol. it's not even close to good enough to do anything that can't be reversed
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Aug 30, 2023 16:52
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but bible say eye for eye
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Aug 30, 2023 18:54
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hawowanlawow posted:some people definitely deserve to die and I have no problem acknowledging that, but anyone living in America with functioning eyes and ears should know that the justice system absolutely cannot be trusted to convict the right people or mete out punishments appropriately. No justice system can guarantee perfect justice, hence it's better to let someone live who might really deserve death than to risk killing someone who is innocent.
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Aug 30, 2023 19:03
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Pope Hilarius II posted:No justice system can guarantee perfect justice, hence it's better to let someone live who might really deserve death than to risk killing someone who is innocent. yes that is the point I was making. we're talking about the American justice system specifically in the context of this conversation, so that's why I referred to the American justice system specifically in my post
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Aug 30, 2023 19:10
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I find it unnerving how much « humane » execution seems to focus on being humane to the executioner.
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Aug 30, 2023 22:15
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Leviathan Song posted:To be fair, they could just use a tank of CO2 instead of a tank of Nitrogen. That would not surprise me in the least. The thing about nitrogen is that it is cheap, plentiful, and harmless. The air is already over 70% nitrogen. If your nitrogen tank springs a leak you can just open a window. It is manufactured in large amounts for divers and science guys who want to dip things in liquid nitrogen. Carbon monoxide is just as good at killing people, but is dangerous to everyone in the area it is being used. Just like cyanide gas, where they had to have the prisoner sit in a specially vented box because it was so dangerous. Trying to do the old switcharoo with other toxic gasses would either be more expensive or more dangerous to the guards themselves.
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Aug 31, 2023 07:51
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the guy they're gonna asphyxiate: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/al-court-of-criminal-appeals/1095402.html quote:The State's evidence tended to show the following. On March 18, 1988, the Reverend Charles Sennett, a minister in the Church of Christ, discovered the body of his wife, Elizabeth Dorlene Sennett, in their home on Coon Dog Cemetery Road in Colbert County. The coroner testified that Elizabeth Sennett had been stabbed eight times in the chest and once on each side of the neck, and had suffered numerous abrasions and cuts. It was the coroner's opinion that Sennett died of multiple stab wounds to the chest and neck. quote:“John and I got to the Sennett house around 9:30, I think. I parked at the back of the house near a little patio that led into the house. I went to a door to the left of the car. I think there was a white freezer nearby. I knocked on the door and Mrs. Sennett came to the door. I told Mrs. Sennett that her husband had told us that we could come down and look around the property to see about hunting on it. Mrs. Sennett asked my name. I told her I was Kenny Smith. She went to the phone and called her husband and came back and told us it was okay to look around. Smith's defense was that he was only there to merely beat her and steal stuff while Parker committed the murder. In Parker's separate trial his statement was mostly the same except he said Smith sharpened the knife on the drive over and then "did all the stabbing" while he merely held her down with a chair and beat her with a pipe, his defense was also that he was merely there to beat her and steal stuff, he was executed in 2010. https://murderpedia.org/male.P/p1/parker-john-forrest.htm Apparently they spent at least a week trying to get a gun and the morning of the murder asked a friend if they knew where to get a gun because they were going to murder someone for money. Also they'd used the advance money they got for a gun to buy some kind of painkiller called Pentazocine to get high with instead. And the dipshit husband's fate: https://www.al.com/news/2022/11/former-sheriff-recalls-womans-horrific-murder-for-hire-by-pastor-as-alabama-prepares-execution.html quote:And later May said he realized he had actually met Charles Sennett Sr. just weeks before the murder. 3 to 4 people dead for all of $2000 split two ways and a VCR.
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Aug 31, 2023 12:33
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Post-appeal, but I briefly defended a guy who murdered a cab driver for about $75. He rejected the life-with-chance-of-parole deal I got him, and decided to take his chances with a habeas appeal (which I told him had a less than 10% chance of success). He got life without parole. I suppose had he been clever enough to take the deal, he would have been clever enough not to murder the guy in the first place. And/or not to leave highly incriminating evidence at the scene.
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Aug 31, 2023 13:49
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Facebook Aunt posted:The thing about nitrogen is that it is cheap, plentiful, and harmless. The air is already over 70% nitrogen. If your nitrogen tank springs a leak you can just open a window. It is manufactured in large amounts for divers and science guys who want to dip things in liquid nitrogen. Carbon dioxide is also cheap and plentiful and bottled in large amounts for the brewing and welding industries. It's more expensive than nitrogen but not only like 4 times as expensive, probably an extra couple hundred dollars per execution. It'd be a little more risky for the guards but the previously mentioned suffocation reaction would let them know there is a problem long before they were in any real danger.
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Aug 31, 2023 16:06
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Phanatic posted:Note that that's not quite true. For acute situations, yes, but if you're chronically hypoxic your body switches mechanisms and does start measuring O2 levels via chemoreceptors in your central arteries for respiratory drive. You'll notice this if you go take a trip to a high enough altitude, you will definitely start to feel short of breath until you acclimate to the altitude even though the CO2 levels in your blood are normal. Athsmatics are another case where the respiratory drive is driven by hypoxia instead of hypercapnia. But it takes longer than a few minutes for that to happen. It has been...a long time since I had any EMS training, so I could be wrong, but dragging up 12+year old memories: use of high-flow oxygen is generally contraindicated for patients with COPD, at least in prehospital settings, even if the patient is cyanotic. This is because the nature of the damage COPD causes the lungs over time results in a chronic state of hypercapnia, and the body gradually gets desensitized and stops responding to elevated CO2 levels. As a result, a sudden, drastic spike in oxygenation levels can suppress any hypoxic respiratory drive and send the patient into respiratory depression or arrest, in addition to loving with their blood chemistry in a way that a humble medic like myself doesn't understand. Considering that in 99% of other situations the EMT-B level answer is "give them plenty of oxygen while taking them to the hospital" it's kind of freaky that there's one particular situation where the answer is "no, not this patient, giving them too much oxygen will make them stop breathing entirely".
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Sep 1, 2023 02:30
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Facebook Aunt posted:The thing about nitrogen is that it is cheap, plentiful, and harmless. The air is already over 70% nitrogen. Nitrogen has a narcotic effect even at STP! TorpedoFish posted:It has been...a long time since I had any EMS training, so I could be wrong, but dragging up 12+year old memories: use of high-flow oxygen is generally contraindicated for patients with COPD, at least in prehospital settings, even if the patient is cyanotic. This is because the nature of the damage COPD causes the lungs over time results in a chronic state of hypercapnia, and the body gradually gets desensitized and stops responding to elevated CO2 levels. As a result, a sudden, drastic spike in oxygenation levels can suppress any hypoxic respiratory drive and send the patient into respiratory depression or arrest, in addition to loving with their blood chemistry in a way that a humble medic like myself doesn't understand. That used to be the interpretation of what's going on, that the body of a COPD sufferer gets desensitized to hypercapnia and stops using that for respiratory drive. Current thinking about why supplementary O2 is bad is that in a COPD patient there's a reflex vasoconstriction that's acting to shunt bloodflow away from damaged alveoli to healthy ones, and when you give them O2 you reverse that vasoconstriction and their bodies start perfusing all the damaged parts of the lungs that just don't work and PaCO2 increases.
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Sep 1, 2023 04:22
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C.M. Kruger posted:Woman who escapes month-long captivity says other Black women killed by abductor Updates on this, he's being held on a $3m bond and they're investigating potential links to another woman who went missing: https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article278083392.html quote:After the bond hearing, Leuty Winningham said Crosdale had visited Haslett’s home, saying there was surveillance video to support that. She said the two met for consensual sex. She declined further questions on the facts of the case Monday. quote:Part of the investigation involves a set of blue barrels found at Haslett’s home during a three-day search of the property in October. Dull described the one Crosdale’s body was located in as similar.
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Sep 4, 2023 07:34
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…discovered the body of his wife, Elizabeth Dorlene Sennett, in their home on Coon Dog Cemetery Road in Colbert County. Now that’s an address for a murder
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Sep 4, 2023 14:19
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Pigsfeet on Rye posted:…discovered the body of his wife, Elizabeth Dorlene Sennett, in their home on Coon Dog Cemetery Road in Colbert County. On Booger Tree, Alabama: "Finally, Winston County hosts a community with a most unique name- Booger Tree. The community itself is actually centered around the old Walker's Chapel Church of Christ, and while that is probably the "real" name of the area, I lived many years in the area and never heard it called anything but Booger Tree. In fact, I have actually saw maps with the community listed as Booger Tree and never as Walker's Chapel. The old Walker's Chapel Church building no longer stands, but there is a small cemetery, mainly made up of graves from the Kidd family dating primarily in the 1920s and 1930s at the intersection of Macedonia and Jessie Davis roads. The story most often associated with Booger Tree is that one of the trees in the vicinity of the cemetery was once the site of a hanging. No documented evidence that such ever took place has ever been produced, still the name itself- "Booger Tree" has forever been stuck to the area. Still numerous undocumented hangings unquestionably took place during the Civil War era, and this area was well settled during that time period, so it is not entirely impossible that this story could be somewhat rooted in truth." Regarding "numerous undocumented hangings unquestionably taking place": You may have never heard of Booger Tree, Alabama, but you may have heard of The Republic of Winston, an area in Alabama that resisted Confederate rule during the US civil war, later contributing men to the Union's 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, raised in Huntsville with men from N. Alabama, Western Tennessee, and the greater Mid-South region. Not unnerving in and of itself, but I'm sure there is room for some spooky/unnerving stories to be written about ol' Booger Tree. Ok, I really just like bringing up Booger Tree. It's loving funny, it's real, and it's my friend.
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Sep 4, 2023 18:36
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madeintaipei posted:The story most often associated with Booger Tree is that one of the trees in the vicinity of the cemetery was once the site of a hanging. No documented evidence that such ever took place has ever been produced, still the name itself- "Booger Tree" has forever been stuck to the area. Still numerous undocumented hangings unquestionably took place during the Civil War era, and this area was well settled during that time period, so it is not entirely impossible that this story could be somewhat rooted in truth." It's the South? With a history that dates back before the 1950s? Has a hanging legend of a visible-to-the-public tree but no documentation? Sounds like a lynching took place there.
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Sep 6, 2023 03:53
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While reading the Trump thread(the good one in gbs), someone mentioned a cesium-137 incident in Brazil while discussing the "this was not a place of honor" radioactive waste warning message thing and whether we should bother trying to warn future societies at all about the dangers of it rather than simply trying to hide it altogether. So I looked it up, and yeah the Goiânia accident is a very good example of what happens if you don't keep radioactive materials out of the hands of people who have no idea about radioactive materials. Warning, the Wikipedia article is detailed and tragic.
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Sep 19, 2023 09:09
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Captain Invictus posted:While reading the Trump thread(the good one in gbs), someone mentioned a cesium-137 incident in Brazil while discussing the "this was not a place of honor" radioactive waste warning message thing and whether we should bother trying to warn future societies at all about the dangers of it rather than simply trying to hide it altogether. So I looked it up, and yeah the Goiânia accident is a very good example of what happens if you don't keep radioactive materials out of the hands of people who have no idea about radioactive materials. Warning, the Wikipedia article is detailed and tragic. The little girl is the one that gets me. I think about her quite often since reading about this incident a few years ago.
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Sep 19, 2023 09:41
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Still the worst civilian nuclear disaster outside of Chernobyl right?
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Sep 19, 2023 12:14
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The junkyard became an empty lot filled with concrete, untouched to this day. https://maps.app.goo.gl/KDGhMFAo74yTn2YH9 EDIT: Just noticed the Philoctetes grafitti. Greek mythical hero who was poisoned and abandoned, though eventually came back for the Trojan War. Negostrike has a new favorite as of 13:43 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 13:38
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HopperUK posted:The little girl is the one that gets me. I think about her quite often since reading about this incident a few years ago.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:43
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Captain Invictus posted:While reading the Trump thread(the good one in gbs), someone mentioned a cesium-137 incident in Brazil while discussing the "this was not a place of honor" radioactive waste warning message thing and whether we should bother trying to warn future societies at all about the dangers of it rather than simply trying to hide it altogether. So I looked it up, and yeah the Goiânia accident is a very good example of what happens if you don't keep radioactive materials out of the hands of people who have no idea about radioactive materials. Warning, the Wikipedia article is detailed and tragic. Sometimes, even when the people do have an idea about radioactive materials. Here's one where a trained engineer defeated multiple safety interlocks, somehow Indiana-Jonesing himself over a big pressure plate, and wound up cooking himself with an industrial sterilization source of 760 kilocuries of cobalt-60: https://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/Publications/PDF/Pub1010_web.pdf Here's a case where a source for industrial weld radiography broke off and dropped out of its transport cannister and some poor bastard saw it laying on the ground and picked it up and put it in his pocket. https://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/Publications/PDF/Pub1101_web.pdf And here's the one where some guys who went out into the woods to cut firewood found a couple of strontium-90 sources from old Soviet RTGs and decided to set their campsite up next to them because they were warm: https://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/Publications/PDF/Pub1660web-81061875.pdf All of these are very clinical and contain photos, so be aware.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:36
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I don't want to follow the links because squeamish. Was the first guy trying to commit suicide?
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Sep 20, 2023 05:18
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I don't want to follow the links because squeamish. Was the first guy trying to commit suicide? Nope he wanted to remove an obstruction on a conveyer belt 
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Sep 20, 2023 05:20
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Tenkaris posted:Nope he wanted to remove an obstruction on a conveyer belt 
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Sep 20, 2023 05:21
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quote:1.1. BACKGROUND TO THE ACCIDENT lol dude was determined quote:The next safety feature he would have encountered was the pressure plate in the floor, and it is difficult to envisage how he could have avoided stepping on this. Subsequent tests showed that the pressure plate was in correct working order (tested 25 times) and that it was impossible to jump over it (its position prevented a possible run-up). Also I am a child and giggled at this: quote:After about 1 minute, he developed an acute headache and pain in his joints and gonads. Tenkaris has a new favorite as of 05:32 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 05:24
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Tenkaris posted:
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Sep 20, 2023 14:46
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Today's AskAManager column reminded me of this horrifying Reddit post from 2018, wherein the comments section taught me more about rabies than I'd ever care to know. And now all bats are my enemies.
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Sep 21, 2023 16:53
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emo-ignorance posted:Today's AskAManager column reminded me of this horrifying Reddit post from 2018, wherein the comments section taught me more about rabies than I'd ever care to know. And now all bats are my enemies. Thinking about that comic with the dog sitting in a burning room and being like "this is fine" but instead of flames it's bats.
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Sep 22, 2023 04:30
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BrianRx posted:Thinking about that comic with the dog sitting in a burning room and being like "this is fine" but instead of flames it's bats. Pretty sure this is just Batman.
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Sep 22, 2023 08:27
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We don't have rabies in the UK and bats are intensely protected. Like if you find bats nesting on a construction site, construction has to stop. It's fascinating to see how they're treated elsewhere.
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Sep 22, 2023 12:35
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HopperUK posted:We don't have rabies in the UK and bats are intensely protected. Like if you find bats nesting on a construction site, construction has to stop. It's fascinating to see how they're treated elsewhere. They still have to humanely remove and relocate the bats in the US. More than half of species are federally protected.
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Sep 22, 2023 13:47
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HopperUK posted:We don't have rabies in the UK and bats are intensely protected. Like if you find bats nesting on a construction site, construction has to stop. It's fascinating to see how they're treated elsewhere. Rabies does exist in the UK, but it's rare. Most of the animals it's endemic to don't live there, but it can still be spread.
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Sep 22, 2023 23:04
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Bats are cool, I deal with caves somewhat frequently and have to basically hazmat up though. Packrats are worse in about every way imo
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Sep 22, 2023 23:13
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StillFullyTerrible posted:Rabies does exist in the UK, but it's rare. Most of the animals it's endemic to don't live there, but it can still be spread.
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Sep 22, 2023 23:26
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emo-ignorance posted:Today's AskAManager column reminded me of this horrifying Reddit post from 2018, wherein the comments section taught me more about rabies than I'd ever care to know. And now all bats are my enemies. Agghhhhh was there ever a follow up to that reddit post?
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Sep 22, 2023 23:59
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