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They should have just gone with a silver bracelet and a silver neck collar. No need for a physical leash. Could show a leash made of the power to demonstrate how it works, but otherwise leave it invisible. Seems a lot simpler, and less embarrassing to explain than ball gags. To return to the other recent discussion. In the build up to the show, didn’t a prominent WoT YouTuber do the math on page/word count to screen time for GoT and determine that WoT could be adapted at the same rate and mapped out a 10 hour season for an exact scene to scene adaption of Eotw?
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Sep 6, 2023 19:12
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The gags are weird. They could have gone for a bit of silver metal at the neck which looked more like unusual jewellery (rather than a loving dog collar thing like it seems to be in the books). I mean there are plenty of silver choker jewellery designs out there which wouldn't have to look weird. Or wrist cuff thing or waist band maybe instead of neck, if you like. Make the chain incredibly fine/light, or just no chain since even the books say it's redundant, though visually it's helpful to convey what's going on. Have a clear bracelet thing on the suldam which has the same designs on it that the thing on the damane has. There we go, very basic visual storytelling. As it stands, it's both confusing as to what the gag does, and also just weird looking. On Uno dying which was discussed a few posts up... man I didn't mind at all, but not for plot reasons. I don't know what it was, but especially his early lines bantering with Perrin and Loial really sucked. Just felt stilted as hell, almost like a character from one of those bad Terry Pratchett adaptations. Swing and a miss for me. Maybe I'm alone in that though. Either way, it's not like he was an essential character and there do need to be more characters killed off in an adaptation of WoT. Though it's a bit ironic that they did this super early death in their adaptation of the only early book where a significant character does snuff it (Ingtar). Speaking of Ingtar, I wish he wasn't so young and boring. Books Ingtar was pretty cool, had clear motivation and I always imagined him with quite a few years, like a battle hardened warrior who is (or at first appears to be..) super zealous in his wish to carry out his mission to find the horn. Overall the show is still mostly mediocre at best imo, not as bad as season 1 though I think. Still some quite bad writing and acting often, but not quite as much. Nynaeve is really well done, and the new Matt guy is better than the previous dude though a lot of that may be because they've tried to insert a kind of light humour like Matt's book character instead of the season 1 broodiness and sarcasm (which was partly dagger-related, but not all by any means).
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Sep 6, 2023 19:14
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Torrannor posted:Legend of the Seeker was fun camp, just don't make the mistake of reading the books. And miss the evil chicken?!
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Sep 6, 2023 19:24
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Shageletic posted:And miss the evil chicken?! I think you’ll find, that this was no chicken…
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Sep 6, 2023 19:27
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Torrannor posted:Legend of the Seeker was fun camp, just don't make the mistake of reading the books. Legend of the Seeker knew exactly what it was and gloried in it Gif-lady-running-falls-in-slomo-with-massive-cleavage
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Sep 6, 2023 19:27
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El Grillo posted:The gags are weird. They could have gone for a bit of silver metal at the neck which looked more like unusual jewellery (rather than a loving dog collar thing like it seems to be in the books). I mean there are plenty of silver choker jewellery designs out there which wouldn't have to look weird. Or wrist cuff thing or waist band maybe instead of neck, if you like. Make the chain incredibly fine/light, or just no chain since even the books say it's redundant, though visually it's helpful to convey what's going on. Have a clear bracelet thing on the suldam which has the same designs on it that the thing on the damane has. There we go, very basic visual storytelling.  There is a clear collar and bracelet. The gags immediately make it clear that person is not in any way in control and not treated as a normal person. A lot more clearly than a chain to the collar. WHEEL OF TIME SEASON 2 COSTUME SKETCHES quote:The above sketch shows the collars, and their scale, in greater detail. We also see a sul’dam bracelet. The damane in The Wheel of Time series have an additional element not present in the books: a piece of metal fitted over their mouths. Gilham incorporated that horrifying touch. She says, “I added the gold mouth stopper or dummy/pacifier to symbolize their further silencing as individuals.”  vvv Are we watching the same show? DTurtle fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 19:43
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Lol, that "collar" is so massively overdesigned that it's never read to me as a collar on-screen at all, if they've been using it (I can't even remember noticing). The "bracelets" too Lolx2 that the costume designer themselves calls it a pacifier
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Sep 6, 2023 19:45
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Legend of the Seeker knew exactly what it was and gloried in it I love that Richard was shorter than Kahlan in the series, I bet this bugged Terry a lot.
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Sep 6, 2023 19:51
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That is definitely an lol and lmao
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Sep 6, 2023 19:52
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Shageletic posted:That's interesting so lets go over the plots so far. Nothing's being lost by starting the show in the middle of the action. The importance of Rand's relationship with Selene isn't whether or not he has sex with her, it's whether he falls in love with her. The theme for Rand is how to relate to the one power and who to trust, which ties into his interactions with Logain. For Perrin, so far his relationship to the Shienarians, Seanchan and wolves are set up. The Seanchan have been clearly established as an antagonist power. You get some understanding of why Perrin might be conflicted about wolves, and it's setting up more time with him and Elyas. The point of the capture was to set up the conversation with the father of lies, very much unlike the whitecloak arc. Moraine is pushing Lan away like she did in the books. It's pretty clear why she is doing what she did, and also why it's a good choice for her to be onscreen this season.
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Sep 6, 2023 19:55
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DTurtle posted:vvv Are we watching the same show? I mean, I guess it looked like part of the dress. I didn't realize it was metal "collar" suggests something different in my mind
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Sep 6, 2023 19:55
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Just like with dogs, if it goes around the arms it's technically a harness 
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Sep 6, 2023 19:55
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And the sanitorium scenes also very gracefully introduced the Aiel.
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Sep 6, 2023 19:58
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English is not my first language, so maybe I'm just wrong, but if somebody had asked me to name that thing, I wouldn't have called it a collar.
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Sep 6, 2023 19:59
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Torrannor posted:English is not my first language, so maybe I'm just wrong, but if somebody had asked me to name that thing, I wouldn't have called it a collar. pik_d posted:Just like with dogs, if it goes around the arms it's technically a harness
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Sep 6, 2023 20:00
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Data Graham posted:Lol, that "collar" is so massively overdesigned that it's never read to me as a collar on-screen at all, if they've been using it (I can't even remember noticing). The "bracelets" too Also misses the key fact that Damane, in fact, are not mutes and the creepiest poo poo involving them is when they verbally talk about living being one. Let's see how it goes. It's definitely more in the vein of a Dune 1978 move with milk cats than new Dune.
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Sep 6, 2023 20:01
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Shageletic posted:Also misses the key fact that Damane, in fact, are not mutes and the creepiest poo poo involving them is when they verbally talk about living being one. Maybe they only have to wear the muzzle when they go out for walkies
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Sep 6, 2023 20:03
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Health Services posted:And the sanitorium scenes also very gracefully introduced the Aiel. Aiels have been mentioned repeatedly including with cold open fight scene and Loail, on the exact same dramatic beat as here, confusing him for one. I'll have to take a bit of time to think about your other points. pik_d posted:Maybe they only have to wear the muzzle when they go out for walkies Lol, that's a no prize right there.
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Sep 6, 2023 20:05
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pik_d posted:Just like with dogs, if it goes around the arms it's technically a harness Dogs don't have arms
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Sep 6, 2023 20:06
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Dogs don't have arms Buddy, you know what I mean
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Sep 6, 2023 20:07
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Shageletic posted:Aiels have been mentioned repeatedly including with cold open fight scene and Loail, on the exact same dramatic beat as here, confusing him for one. Yes, but not in this season so far. This brings them up again, gives them some more detail, history, how they are regarded and how they relate to Cairhein.
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Sep 6, 2023 20:07
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pik_d posted:Buddy, you know what I mean If I can't be a pedant on the internet where can I???
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Sep 6, 2023 20:12
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Uno mentioned fighting them? In about as much detail as the crazy guy did?
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Sep 6, 2023 20:13
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Health Services posted:And the sanitorium scenes also very gracefully introduced the Aiel. As for the whole „collar“ thing, let me just say: LMFAO, all of you are loving easily distracted. At least you will be just as surprised as non-book readers when Egwene gets one of those thrown around her neck… Hey, did you guys notice that Perrin is seeing things? Or that Mat is going to stab Rand? You did notice that Nynaeve can only channel when angry, right? Also, also Rand has met Logain! loving unbelievable… Oh! Forgot one easy to miss thing: Fades can teleport from shadow to shadow! Also that sniffer guy has the same eye color thing that Perrin has sometimes! DTurtle fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 20:13
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DTurtle posted:
I'm honestly not sure you know what a collar is? Because they definitely don't typically extend down the torso like that. Quite literally no one I've interacted with discussing the show has recognized that's supposed to be a collar, or that it had any connection to the vambraces worn by the sul'dam. It's muddled design, and the pacifiers just look awful. When they came on screen, my non-reader wife asked if they were rave kids.
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Sep 6, 2023 20:17
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End of season 1: A spanish collar:  Spanish collar gorget:  Medical collar:  Another medical collar:  Puritan collar:  And double or triple collars: 
DTurtle fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 20:25
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They will explain the damane, sul'dam, and a'dam in the show when Egwene is captured, the same way it happens in the books.
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Sep 6, 2023 20:32
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Unlisted preview for the next episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOS8NC8xW9w
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Sep 6, 2023 20:36
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DTurtle posted:End of season 1: One of those looks remotely like what the damane wear (a rigid construction extending from below the chin to the upper/mid chest and attaching beneath the shoulders), and no matter how technically correct it might be...if viewers aren't recognizing it, it's bad design.
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Sep 6, 2023 20:41
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Devorum posted:One of those looks remotely like what the damane wear (a rigid construction extending from below the chin to the upper/mid chest and attaching beneath the shoulders), and no matter how technically correct it might be...if viewers aren't recognizing it, it's bad design. High neck collar: 
DTurtle fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 20:43
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I think a root issue here is whether the show is aligning to the LETTER of what happened in the books vs the SPIRIT of what happened in the books. I think they’ve done an exceedingly good job of honoring the spirit of the books and characters, but haven’t aligned well to the letter of the story. I would posit their goal is, in fact, to align to the spirit at the cost of the letter, and there’s no way they could have hewn too closely to the letter with the time and resources and medium allotted to them. Is the damane collar literally a silver necklace and bracelet tied together by a leash? No. Does it get across the point that these people are connected and one is clearly subservient? Yeah, some, and hopefully it’ll be even more clear in future episodes.
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Sep 6, 2023 21:09
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cailleask posted:I think a root issue here is whether the show is aligning to the LETTER of what happened in the books vs the SPIRIT of what happened in the books. Agree with this 💯
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Sep 6, 2023 21:11
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I like the pacifiers, they're a great visual shorthand for expressing how alien and how hosed up Seanchan culture is
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Sep 6, 2023 21:29
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Guys I don’t think the the non-book-reader viewers are supposed to have inferred the specific functions of the collar/bracelet/gag arrangement at this point aside from noting that the magicians appear to be in a pretty subservient situation in this society. Presumably the system will be explained later this season.
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Sep 6, 2023 21:40
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Sorry, still can’t get over the fact that so many idiots have been so distracted by the pacifiers that they missed the A‘dam for two loving years. I mean, I saw all the complaining about the gags, but I thought that was about the look. I never thought that so many actually thought that those (alone?) were the A‘dam and completely missed half the costume. You guys did see the bracelets on the Sul‘dam, right? DTurtle fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 21:46
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Health Services posted:Nothing's being lost by starting the show in the middle of the action. The importance of Rand's relationship with Selene isn't whether or not he has sex with her, it's whether he falls in love with her. The theme for Rand is how to relate to the one power and who to trust, which ties into his interactions with Logain. Nothings been lost? We're in the midst of the action now. the payoff of those themes occurring haven't happened yet. We just met Selene, and so far she hasn't been as hilariously shady as Selene im the books hasn't come up, albeit with a bit of forceful making out and such. Too soon to tell I think. quote:For Perrin, so far his relationship to the Shienarians, Seanchan and wolves are set up. The Seanchan have been clearly established as an antagonist power. You get some understanding of why Perrin might be conflicted about wolves, and it's setting up more time with him and Elyas. The point of the capture was to set up the conversation with the father of lies, very much unlike the whitecloak arc. This makes more sense to me. Involving Ishamael with Perrin is an improvement over the books. Let's see how it goes. quote:Moraine is pushing Lan away like she did in the books. It's pretty clear why she is doing what she did, and also why it's a good choice for her to be onscreen this season. When did she push him away other than threatening to give his ward to someone else if she dies, where iirc it's played more in a playful manner (its been a while). They've always been a solid mature unit where Lan had implacable faith in her that would spring up whenever the Emond's field folk got frustrated with her. Now it's Sturm und drang barely holding back tears stuff and I'd say that's a radical change from the books and how their relationship unfolded.
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Sep 6, 2023 21:48
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Shageletic posted:
She actually does pass his bond to another sister without his consent before exposing herself to mortal danger, which given what we know about warder relationships is much more hosed up then just being mean to him to drive him away. If anything he has less of a choice in the books about what happens than he does here.
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Sep 6, 2023 21:54
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DTurtle posted:Sorry, still can’t get over the fact that so many idiots have been so distracted by the pacifiers that they missed the A‘dam for two loving years. Well the pacifiers are mega big stupid and the a'dam looks nothing like it does in the books (and as pointed out is no longer even technically a collar).
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Sep 6, 2023 22:02
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Pleads posted:Well the pacifiers are mega big stupid and the a'dam looks nothing like it does in the books (and as pointed out is no longer even technically a collar). Did you also miss the bracelets on the Sul‘dam? Or do they also not count, because bracelets are only rings for the arms, while the show version are closer to bracers.. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 6, 2023 |
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Sep 6, 2023 22:07
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Sep 6, 2023 22:09
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