(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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I can't believe someone did this to his car. I hope they catch the guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuB6gB622iY&hd=1
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Sep 6, 2023 22:05
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| # ? May 30, 2024 02:11 |
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Jimbot posted:I've gotten about half-way through the review before turning it off. He wasn't that insightful enough in his complaining about the writing that it just came off as droning so I wasn't getting anything out of the video. The twist isn't exactly telegraphed because the water dragon speaks in riddles. She's vague enough that it could have meant anything. Yeah, I dunno if it was my nostalgia talking but I did kind of dislike how hard he was on the game, and a lot of his complaints about the moral choices at the end felt a bit like going, "I don't give a gently caress about some kid being tortured, check out these cool boat races!" when visiting Omelas.
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Sep 6, 2023 23:11
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KingKalamari posted:It really just comes down to the recurring fascination a handful of game designers have with going "Hey player, you know these actions we made you do to complete the game? The ones that you had no say in and your only options were to either do them or stop playing? What if these were BAD actions? Don't you feel a fool now?" In Avellone's case it's more like "Hey player you know this main character we made you invested in? Well guess what before you knew them they GENOCIDED THE WHOLE WORLD! How about that huh? Huh?"
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Sep 6, 2023 23:34
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Insurrectionist posted:In Avellone's case it's more like "Hey player you know this main character we made you invested in? Well guess what before you knew them they GENOCIDED THE WHOLE WORLD! How about that huh? Huh?" this is kind of overboard
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Sep 7, 2023 00:23
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Insurrectionist posted:In Avellone's case it's more like "Hey player you know this main character we made you invested in? Well guess what before you knew them they GENOCIDED THE WHOLE WORLD! How about that huh? Huh?" Delivery person delivered a box and went on to get shot in the head on another delivery. Whoops the box was a bomb. Delivery person didn't know, and probably didn't think about it after getting shot in the head. It's really not that dramatic or deep of a backstory.
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Sep 7, 2023 00:31
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:This is just a combined version of all the individual videos he's made, right? Having now watched Noah's original Fallout videos and his new one I can say that there's very little overlap between them. There is some commonality in places (it's the same person writing about the same games, for starters) but it's clear he went in with a fresh script and started new playthroughs. I suspect that more of his original F76 content would have been reusable if the game hadn't changed so much since his first video but it has, and it makes his original video the only one of the unlisted ones worth revisiting.
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Sep 7, 2023 00:31
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Having now watched Noah's original Fallout videos and his new one I can say that there's very little overlap between them. There was at least one joke from his Fallout 4 video that he repeated verbatim, but it's one of his best so I don't blame him for hanging on to it.
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Sep 7, 2023 00:57
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Nuebot posted:Whoops the box was a bomb. Thinking wistfully of the Streets of SimCity mission that was literally this, a confused deliveryman dropping off bombs that blew up buildings everywhere as police presence ramped up. 
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Sep 7, 2023 00:57
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Sardonik posted:Thinking wistfully of the Streets of SimCity mission that was literally this, a confused deliveryman dropping off bombs that blew up buildings everywhere as police presence ramped up. thats not true, nobody thinks wistfully about Streets of SimCity
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Sep 7, 2023 01:13
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The speech check to get Ulysses to step down from the nuclear cliff involves convincing him he's wrong about the future. You don't even have to tell him you think you were responsible for what happened, and I think the closest you get is saying it was an accident. There's no part of the Lonesome Road's story that's supposed to make you feel bad for this thing you couldn't choose not to do beyond the antagonist who's been traumatized (twice) and has let it consume him to a ridiculous degree. Like an antagonist saying something really confidently doesn't mean the story wants you to see them as correct. It's not like Kreia, he doesn't say some poo poo and it zooms onto a poor dying marked man cursing your name. TGLT fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 01:23
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Alacron posted:There was at least one joke from his Fallout 4 video that he repeated verbatim, but it's one of his best so I don't blame him for hanging on to it. Yeah I know the one and it was the only bit that really felt repeated (and you are right, it was worth keeping).
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Sep 7, 2023 02:01
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Ulysses, and Avellone by extension, is a garbage person with brain worms and that's it. No morals. No hidden meanings. It's like Chris can't stop writing garbage people with brain worms that also happen to double as his personal mouthpieces.
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Sep 7, 2023 02:19
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Avellone worked on Fallen Order and I'd bet dollars to donuts he wrote Taron Malicos, a nihilistic fallen Jedi whose poo poo you kick in.
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Sep 7, 2023 03:10
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ApeHawk posted:Ulysses, and Avellone by extension, is a garbage person with brain worms and that's it. No morals. No hidden meanings. And a creeper who allegedly liked to prey on girls at conventions. He managed to get the one case thrown out but there was more.
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Sep 7, 2023 03:25
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TGLT posted:The speech check to get Ulysses to step down from the nuclear cliff involves convincing him he's wrong about the future. You don't even have to tell him you think you were responsible for what happened, and I think the closest you get is saying it was an accident. There's no part of the Lonesome Road's story that's supposed to make you feel bad for this thing you couldn't choose not to do beyond the antagonist who's been traumatized (twice) and has let it consume him to a ridiculous degree. My speech check quips are honestly more a criticism of how NV handled skill check dialogue in general, in that 99.99% of the time they are unambiguously the correct checks to take that result in the best possible outcome, assuming you actually have a high enough skill level. Compare to Fallout 1 or 2, where having high enough skills (or in some cases low enough skills) would open up new dialogue options, but they weren't explicitly marked with [SPEECH] or [BARTER] or whatever so the player still had to pay attention and intelligently make their way through a dialogue tree if they wanted a beneficial or non-violent outcome, instead of just mashing whatever the skill check option is. Of course, that's also hardly a problem that's unique to NV in any way. Really a lot of my criticisms of NV would be things I just rolled my eyes and moved on at in other games, but I hold NV to a higher standard because it is just so good in so many ways that its flaws are a lot more obvious.
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Sep 7, 2023 03:54
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They did somewhat fix that with Dean Domino in Dead Money
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Sep 7, 2023 04:33
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Gaius Marius posted:They did somewhat fix that with Dean Domino in Dead Money when i played Dead Money for the first time I talked Dean down very easily and was blown away when i read people online talk about how hard it is lol
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Sep 7, 2023 04:39
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Alaois posted:when i played Dead Money for the first time I talked Dean down very easily and was blown away when i read people online talk about how hard it is lol iirc the thing with Dean Domino is he has the most fragile ego in the entire wasteland and if you even once respond to him with a neutral tone instead of with gushing adulation, he'll be convinced that you got yourself kidnapped with the express purpose of making him look bad. i played the goodest of goodie two shoes through my entire FNV run but his was the one avoidable NPC death i didn't bother to savescum to fix lmao, gently caress that guy anyway here's Max Miller with some nun cookies (bad!) and nun wine (good!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa1r9O0-PEE reminded me of the old Aeons video about various nun crimes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzyuYjIsYFE
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Sep 7, 2023 06:19
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:in fallout new vegas instead of chris avellone's self insert being an old woman its some guy you've never met before ranting at you about all the awful things you've done to him that you had no idea about because it was only ever brought up in the dlc that introduced him and he's right yet again suck it up loser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnXB5eUElns
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Sep 7, 2023 06:28
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Gaius Marius posted:They did somewhat fix that with Dean Domino in Dead Money Yeah the Dean Domino stuff is great and I like how if you really want to let the piece of poo poo live you need to recognize very quickly that you need to stroke his ego and never even give him the inkling that you'd potentially be willing to harm him. Alaois posted:when i played Dead Money for the first time I talked Dean down very easily and was blown away when i read people online talk about how hard it is lol He has some of the only "bad" skillcheck dialogue options in the game that if picked cause him to ultimately turn on your in the Madre. In particular there's an explosives check dialogue when you first meet him that if chosen cascades to him being unable to be talked down. IIRC there's also speech skill options that have the same effect because while they are technically "correct" observations, it makes Dean feel like you're smarter than him and that pisses him off. He's such a petty rear end in a top hat and it's great.
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Sep 7, 2023 07:21
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Insurrectionist posted:In Avellone's case it's more like "Hey player you know this main character we made you invested in? Well guess what before you knew them they GENOCIDED THE WHOLE WORLD! How about that huh? Huh?" Yeah, I read Speaker for the Dead first, too
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Sep 7, 2023 12:26
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Girl With The Dogs is a popular channel here, but I'm pretty disappointed that she made this video, with her seeming trend at aiming for more varied, unique dogs and animals for her videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyC3ibxvxH4&hd=1 It's a well made video for the most part, but I don't think she really gets across how much of a problem a Wolfdog can be despite listing off issues. this particular one was a particularly well-behaved one and only snapped at her after multiple warnings(and I mean SNAPPED, you can hear the jaws clack together with how forceful it was) but she then mistakenly talks about reputable wolfdog breeders, when that is not a thing that exists, since wolfdogs shouldn't exist. wild/domesticated hybrids should not be a thing.
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Sep 7, 2023 14:19
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Sydin posted:My speech check quips are honestly more a criticism of how NV handled skill check dialogue in general, in that 99.99% of the time they are unambiguously the correct checks to take that result in the best possible outcome, assuming you actually have a high enough skill level. Compare to Fallout 1 or 2, where having high enough skills (or in some cases low enough skills) would open up new dialogue options, but they weren't explicitly marked with [SPEECH] or [BARTER] or whatever so the player still had to pay attention and intelligently make their way through a dialogue tree if they wanted a beneficial or non-violent outcome, instead of just mashing whatever the skill check option is. If you want a counter-example Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous gives you the option to hide this kinda of information, including hiding what options will be considered good or evil. I've tried it myself and what I and a lot of other people end up coming back with is that while it's a neat idea it kills the whole nerd fantasy idea that you get to be really good at talking because you invested some game points into certain things. There's probably a whole essay to be written about how that's kind of weird in it's own right, but whatever. It also lays even more bare one of the issues of cRPGs (I'm putting FNV in that category too, sue me): You're always bound by whatever options and dialogue choices the writers and designers make for you, and how they decide that affects the larger narrative and world. You're not talking to real people in your own voice, you're subtly trying to figure out the logic the game's creators have decided their automatons must follow. At some point you are going to find ways to game that system with the information you have to obtain the results you consider the objectively right ones.
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Sep 7, 2023 14:30
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Also lmao at the idea of consuming every piece of media like the characters are just thinly veiled mouthpieces who directly quote a writer's earnestly held beliefs at you.
Clerical Terrors fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 14:32
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I just remembered that Fallout: The Frontier also tried to wring some pathos out of that bomb the courier delivered.
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Sep 7, 2023 14:40
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"Tried" is doing some extremely heavy lifting there.
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Sep 7, 2023 14:46
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Captain Invictus posted:reputable wolfdog breeders Disgusting. Dog Breeders should not be a thing Clerical Terrors posted:Also lmao at the idea of consuming every piece of media like the characters are just thinly veiled mouthpieces who directly quote a writer's earnestly held beliefs at you. There is a lot of media where the characters are thinly veiled mouthpieces. Like Error from Zelda 2.
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Sep 7, 2023 14:46
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one of the Obsidian writers did talk about some of the issues with FNV's dialogue system wrt Pentiment, where you get some nice changes like having skill-tag dialogues not automatically be good, having interesting responses to "bad" choices, and also separating dialogue choices from consequences enough that you're not encouraged to savescum and try again for an ideal solution
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Sep 7, 2023 14:50
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Clerical Terrors posted:It also lays even more bare one of the issues of cRPGs (I'm putting FNV in that category too, sue me): You're always bound by whatever options and dialogue choices the writers and designers make for you, and how they decide that affects the larger narrative and world. You're not talking to real people in your own voice, you're subtly trying to figure out the logic the game's creators have decided their automatons must follow. At some point you are going to find ways to game that system with the information you have to obtain the results you consider the objectively right ones. gently caress it, let's dunk on alignment while we are at it. You are a Paladin, and you encounter this:  What do you do? the answer is to install a mod that pins your alignment, or taking lawful evil / lawful neutral options when they appear or face turning chaotic good halfway through the campaign
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Sep 7, 2023 15:04
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Captain Invictus posted:It's a well made video for the most part, but I don't think she really gets across how much of a problem a Wolfdog can be despite listing off issues. this particular one was a particularly well-behaved one and only snapped at her after multiple warnings(and I mean SNAPPED, you can hear the jaws clack together with how forceful it was) but she then mistakenly talks about reputable wolfdog breeders, when that is not a thing that exists, since wolfdogs shouldn't exist. wild/domesticated hybrids should not be a thing. Yeah things like this are awkward for me, like when Clint's Reptiles does videos on crocodilians or large monitor lizards. They talk about how you're basically committing yourself to being an independent zookeeper with a wild animal like that, but they do it in that soft youtuber voice. So you know there's going to be some morons who just see the video and go "gotta have that!" And if they aren't completely ignoring the warnings, they're at least hearing "This animal is only for a select few very experienced, skilled people  " and go "Oh that's definitely me!"Wolf dogs are an especially messy issue because plenty of "breeders" and owners don't actually have dogs with any wolf content. And it can be really dangerous in some areas to misidentify a husky or malamute cross that just looks wolfy. Like up to and including "instant confiscation and euthanasia." Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 15:10
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Antigravitas posted:gently caress it, let's dunk on alignment while we are at it. You are a Paladin, and you encounter this: Do they not have the ability to make choices that just act as good/evil or just lawful/chaotic?
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Sep 7, 2023 15:12
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sirtommygunn posted:Do they not have the ability to make choices that just act as good/evil or just lawful/chaotic? They do in Wrath of the Righteous, except some of them will then slowly cause you to drift towards neutral on the scale you didn't have an option for and it's a pain in the neck. The developers even seem tacitly aware of this because there are several unique story branches where characters will cryptically state to you that your alignment sucks and needs to be fixed before eventually just...offering you the option to have it zapped into whatever alignment they desire. Which you can then undo by visiting the character that allows you to retrain your character because when I said retrain, I meant re-roll as in completely rebuild your character from the ground up including their name and alignment. It's bad. Prescriptive alignment is bad, even on tabletop, and it was the main reason I only played TTRPGs that explicitly weren't DnD or its derivatives for the longest time.
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Sep 7, 2023 15:38
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Alignment is a plague upon nerd media and even Owlcat seems aware because a bunch of their characters exist in part to mock alignment thinking
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Sep 7, 2023 15:41
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Like the only time alignment ever made any sort of sense was for paladins, and oaths can be used instead, which are superior anyways.
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Sep 7, 2023 15:51
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Clerical Terrors posted:They do in Wrath of the Righteous, except some of them will then slowly cause you to drift towards neutral on the scale you didn't have an option for and it's a pain in the neck. lmao jesus christ, are they tracking alignment using a loving ratio of lawful:good points you've accumulated?? Baffling that being too good or evil could have any impact on the lawful/chaotic scale and vice versa.
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Sep 7, 2023 15:52
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DaysBefore posted:Alignment is a plague upon nerd media and even Owlcat seems aware because a bunch of their characters exist in part to mock alignment thinking I hear they got rid of alignment entirely in Pathfinder 2E. All I can say is, thank christ it took them long enough. Baldur's Gate 3 also ditches alignment in favor of Dragon Age style "X Approves/Disapproves", which kind of threw me for a loop at first because I was not expecting that from an honest-to-goodness D&D-based CRPG. sirtommygunn posted:lmao jesus christ, are they tracking alignment using a loving ratio of lawful:good points you've accumulated?? Baffling that being too good or evil could have any impact on the lawful/chaotic scale and vice versa. Its a circle graph with all the different alignments forming segments around the edges and Neutral in the dead-center. Doing something that matches one of the alignments slowly increments you in the corresponding direction. Doing something diametrically opposed to whatever your current alignment is will point you towards the center (and therefore Neutral). MechanicalTomPetty fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 16:00
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Nuns with Guns posted:Yeah things like this are awkward for me, like when Clint's Reptiles does videos on crocodilians or large monitor lizards. They talk about how you're basically committing yourself to being an independent zookeeper with a wild animal like that, but they do it in that soft youtuber voice. So you know there's going to be some morons who just see the video and go "gotta have that!" And if the aren't completely ignoring the warnings, they're at least hearing "This animal is only for a select few very experienced, skilled people I’m a big fan of how Maya Higa does videos around her animal sanctuary. She always makes it a point that basically none of her animals are pets and the only reason she has a lot of them are because of illegal, irresponsible, and immoral pet trades. And why they all suck to keep as pets. Especially foxes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTcKomzbEwY Sudden Loud Noise fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 16:03
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Like the only time alignment ever made any sort of sense was for paladins, and oaths can be used instead, which are superior anyways. It can work in Planescape-type settings where you are dealing with archetypes and ideals rather than actual characters.
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Sep 7, 2023 16:04
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sirtommygunn posted:lmao jesus christ, are they tracking alignment using a loving ratio of lawful:good points you've accumulated?? Baffling that being too good or evil could have any impact on the lawful/chaotic scale and vice versa. It's the well known two dimensional axis but reshaped into a circle, with true neutral at the center. And somehow it seemed like, rather than keeping that as a purely visual thing, they decided that was how the actual space of the alignment grid is supposed to work which is a baffling decision.
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Sep 7, 2023 16:05
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The alignment system was never good and basically just existed to justify the mechanical reasons of why you, a hero, were going around doing mass orc and goblin genocide. It wasn't uncommon for the game to outright punish you not only by stripping away the powers of classes like clerics and paladins for not acting good enough (Note that "good" in this case means like, just murdering as many evil creatures as possible) but it was fairly normal for the punishment for a dramatic alignment shift was for your character to just become an NPC. I think that might actually still be somewhere in 5e's lycanthropy rules, if your alignment shifts too much your dm can just take your sheet away. Because it was largely a mechanical thing it was always incredibly bad at serving as a tool for writing or role play. Because when you read the actual rules and descriptors a system like D&D or Pathfinder hand you, it makes no god drat sense to ever play an evil character. Not because they'd be like, a villainous bad guy - but because in a world where Good and Evil are tangible objective forces and Good is the default that all people are innately and Evil is some kind of hosed up corrupt version that's compelled to just destroy all things that are good, it makes it nearly impossible for you to meaningfully interact with the world in any way that isn't just "lmao I try to kill this guy" The chaotic/law spectrum isn't much better because a lot of people seem to think that a "chaotic" character is, you know, a selfish rear end in a top hat - but they're not. That's neutral. Chaotic, as per the official descriptors, are just loving crazy people with no self control or inhibitions. So all those assholes no one likes playing who roll a chaotic evil rogue and try to kill everything compulsively? They're actually playing that correctly, that's basically canon. The shift in more modern systems to just throwing that trash out the window and relying more on personal character ethics and morality is infinitely better.
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Sep 7, 2023 16:25
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