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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:can't wait for switch 2 to become the console with the best image quality thanks to dlss can't wait for first party switch 2 games to still have no AA and FSR1 upscaling
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Sep 7, 2023 22:15
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Not to turn this thread into Console Chat, but some of the rumors also suggested a different cartridge format. Doesn't necessarily preclude them from supporting more than 1 format obvi, Nintendo has done that in the past.
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Sep 7, 2023 22:16
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Cygni posted:Not to turn this thread into Console Chat, but some of the rumors also suggested a different cartridge format. Doesn't necessarily preclude them from supporting more than 1 format obvi, Nintendo has done that in the past. Yeah that could be as simple as doing what they did with the 3DS, adding a notch to the cartridge so it can't be put in an original Switch while still allowing for original Switch carts.
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Sep 7, 2023 22:18
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I am looking to build a new PC in the next 6 months or so and am looking at graphics card. I've got a 1080ti which has lasted me for 6 years, do I need to go all the way to a 4090 to probably get 6 years out of my next one? I know its impossible to say with certainty, but any thoughts would be helpful. I'd rather not spend ridiculous money, but I can if it means another 6 years of not having to think about whether I meet the specs needed for a game!
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Sep 7, 2023 22:25
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Doug Sisk posted:I am looking to build a new PC in the next 6 months or so and am looking at graphics card. I've got a 1080ti which has lasted me for 6 years, do I need to go all the way to a 4090 to probably get 6 years out of my next one? I know its impossible to say with certainty, but any thoughts would be helpful. Probably will honestly. The 4090 is as much a leap over the 3090 as the 1080Ti was to the 980Ti, if not a bit more. It's expensive but it's probably going to last for a while.
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Sep 7, 2023 22:31
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:can't wait for switch 2 to become the console with the best image quality thanks to dlss Nintendo won't use anti-aliasing, they seem allergic to it. There are multiple third party games with solid, clean TAA and even one game with FSR2.0, meanwhile their flagship first party game uses FSR1.0 and is muddy as gently caress
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Sep 7, 2023 22:37
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FSR1 with sharpening enabled no less, which makes no sense because the sharpener is there to counteract TAA blur of which there is none because they don't apply any AA at all unnecessary sharpening just makes the aliasing even worse repiv fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 7, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 22:40
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wolrah posted:FC/NES - No https://i.imgur.com/3VwfviR.mp4
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Sep 7, 2023 22:42
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I don't see how they're going to compete with the big consoles performance wise since it'll have no SSD and be thermally constrained. If the thing chugs at the 720/1080p base resolution, upscaling primarily helps with the 4K TV output
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Sep 7, 2023 22:42
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i don't see why it couldn't have fast internal storage but to make it expandable they'd have to either go proprietary (gross) or adopt one of those meme standards like SD Express that has so little adoption that it may as well be proprietary if nintendo are the only ones using it
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Sep 7, 2023 22:48
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repiv posted:i don't see why it couldn't have fast internal storage but to make it expandable they'd have to either go proprietary (gross) or adopt one of those meme standards like SD Express that has so little adoption that it may as well be proprietary if nintendo are the only ones using it could also run it like most of the modern consoles and have the physical media be essentially empty, and the game itself loaded on the internal storage. thats against the Nintendo EthosTM, but they are trying to push online like everyone else these days so i guess its possible.
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Sep 7, 2023 22:52
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Is there a cartridge format that approaches NVME speed?
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Sep 7, 2023 22:52
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shrike82 posted:Is there a cartridge format that approaches NVME speed? the carts nintendo uses are just NAND flash that's set up to be read-only after manufacture so it can be as fast as they want, within economical limits yes this means the 3DS and switch carts will bit-rot if left unpowered for a long time, it's already happening to 3DS carts
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Sep 7, 2023 22:54
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repiv posted:the carts nintendo uses are just NAND flash that's set up to be read-only after manufacture so it can be as fast as they want, within economical limits Any cold storage, no matter what, degrades.
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Sep 7, 2023 22:59
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repiv posted:the carts nintendo uses are just NAND flash that's set up to be read-only after manufacture so it can be as fast as they want, within economical limits gently caress that noise
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Sep 7, 2023 23:00
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:
Well this is why you should keep it at room temperature then.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:00
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shrike82 posted:Is there a cartridge format that approaches NVME speed? CFexpress is literally just a form factor for the NVMe bus. The ones that are about the same size as a Switch cart are PCIe 4.0 x1 and the ones that are about a centimetre and a half longer are PCIe 4.0 x2. There's also the big chungus PCIe 4.0 x4 one but that's not something Nintendo would go for in a handheld.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:02
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The only way to have data remain consistent is to have it on an checksumming and mirroring or striped data with distributed parity filesystem with periodic patrol scrubs, and make sure it always runs. I engrave all of my Switch games in stone, what now
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Sep 7, 2023 23:04
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Lol I should have said "cartridge format" that doesn't cost more than a game - those CFExpress cards are expensive
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Sep 7, 2023 23:08
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shrike82 posted:I don't see how they're going to compete with the big consoles performance wise since it'll have no SSD and be thermally constrained. They won't. I'm honestly only expecting something around Steam Deck level power, maybe a bit more, but with a better screen.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:10
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Kibner posted:They won't. I'm honestly only expecting something around Steam Deck level power, maybe a bit more, but with a better screen. according to the rumor mill they're launching the switch 2 without an OLED screen, probably so they can launch that later and get people to double-dip again
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Sep 7, 2023 23:14
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At this point, especially because they're talking about the matrix awakens demo running on it, I suspect they're porting Orin to TSMC 4N, and it will probably be like a more efficient ROG Ally in terms of performance, with DLSS to upscale up to 4K when docked (though most multiplat games will probably be sub-4k output). This is more feasible and less expensive than most people are probably expecting, considering how tiny I expect the chip to be.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:18
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MarcusSA posted:Well this is why you should keep it at room temperature then. change my name posted:I engrave all of my Switch games in stone, what now Kazinsal posted:CFexpress is literally just a form factor for the NVMe bus. The ones that are about the same size as a Switch cart are PCIe 4.0 x1 and the ones that are about a centimetre and a half longer are PCIe 4.0 x2. There's also the big chungus PCIe 4.0 x4 one but that's not something Nintendo would go for in a handheld. At most, NVMe ensures that it has enough I/O queues, but the OS needs to take advantage of that, and multi-threaded storage isn't exactly something you can do in a small amount of code for what's essentially an embedded microkernel.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:20
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worst case scenario, games that demand the speed of an nvme could install from the cart onto an internal storage.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:24
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Interface has very little to do with the actual speed that the flash can be read and written to, though. Those CFexpress cards can actually hit the speeds you'd expect from "NVMe on a card", with the twist that they aren't cheap. If you wanted to use them for expansion storage in a handheld you'd be essentially telling your users to pay you Sony-proprietary-memory amounts of money.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:25
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please nintendo just put a little flap on the back that exposes a 2230 slot yes i know they won't do this
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Sep 7, 2023 23:31
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Dear Nintendo, please give me the option to use as many watts on storage as the entire rest of the system combined, and a giant battery that is essentially a bomb so that I can have more than 10 minutes of run time.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:46
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shrike82 posted:I don't see how they're going to compete with the big consoles performance wise They won't. They never have. Nintendo has literally never cared about this. The Game Boy was terminally underpowered for its time and was nicknamed the poo poo Game internally. No-one at Nintendo has thought for a nanosecond whether or not Assassin's Creed Mirage will come out on the new Switch.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:53
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shrike82 posted:Is there a cartridge format that approaches NVME speed? XQD or CF Express edit: way beaten. But honestly even consumer M.2 nvme is going to be at least $45/tb and that’s with flash prices in the shitter. The “N64 model” of having the game distributed on a fast ROM was dying and limiting even in that era, and today the idea of shipping a $20 cartridge instead of having the ssd be built into the console is not going to fly. Just because it could be done, doesn’t mean it’s practical or technically justified. (Actually even in those days it was more about drm, and the speed just shook out of that, along with some capacity limitations.) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 7, 2023 23:58
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VostokProgram posted:gently caress that noise I have bad news for you regarding those CDs games used to come on.
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Sep 8, 2023 00:12
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Lockback posted:I have bad news for you regarding those CDs games used to come on. It's okay, M-DISC will save us* *savior status only guaranteed if stored in a salt mine
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Sep 8, 2023 00:16
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The only way to have data remain consistent is to have it on an checksumming and mirroring or striped data with distributed parity filesystem with periodic patrol scrubs, and make sure it always runs. back in the day we had mask rom and that was good enough for decades. alas density does not keep up. njsykora posted:They won't. They never have. Nintendo has literally never cared about this. The Game Boy was terminally underpowered for its time and was nicknamed the poo poo Game internally. No-one at Nintendo has thought for a nanosecond whether or not Assassin's Creed Mirage will come out on the new Switch. they kind of tried with n64 and gamecube, but then withered tech won again and the wii printed money by being 2 gamecubes duct taped together. they're at their best doing games and not really worrying about the cuttingest of edges
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Sep 8, 2023 00:16
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NVIDIA SoCs are on the cutting edge of performance for power at least.
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Sep 8, 2023 00:29
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:At this point, especially because they're talking about the matrix awakens demo running on it, I suspect they're porting Orin to TSMC 4N, and it will probably be like a more efficient ROG Ally in terms of performance, with DLSS to upscale up to 4K when docked (though most multiplat games will probably be sub-4k output). This is more feasible and less expensive than most people are probably expecting, considering how tiny I expect the chip to be. There were rumors that Nintendo would be using Samsung 5nm, which would give them a performance/efficiency advantage over 8nm but without the cost of tsmc. It would also put them on basically their own node, other than whatever smartphone SOCs Samsung is still making on it. And that at least seems like Nintendo’s MO, if it’s not going to be SS8 (I was counting pascals and I forgot the X1 was Maxwell on 20nm lmao, the lost node that nobody else ever used). Tsmc 4N would be expensive and aggressive given their usual hardware scope. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 00:51
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change my name posted:Okay, I actually just did this and I'm upgrading to a Proart 4070 ti. Man I need to ask for things more often Get that money. lamentable dustman posted:So repasting did the trick. Hot spot temp is now lower with furmark running for a few mins then it was idle on the desktop before. Glad it worked out. Paul MaudDib posted:There were rumors that Nintendo would be using Samsung 5nm, which would give them a performance/efficiency advantage over 8nm but without the cost of tsmc. It would also put them on basically their own node, other than whatever smartphone SOCs Samsung is still making on it. And that at least seems like Nintendo’s MO, if it’s not going to be SS8. Tsmc 4N would be expensive and aggressive given their usual hardware scope. Do you think Nvidia would go with Samsung after Ampere (I am assuming they would have some say)? Samsung 8nm was a bit of a dog, with weird power characteristics. RDNA2 was so competitive with Ampere by virtue of the node advantage granted by TSMC 7nm, and TSMC 5nm seems to be working out for just about everyone.
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Sep 8, 2023 02:14
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the samsung 5nm rumour was walked back a few days later (and from an unreliable source to begin with), but people have been convinced for a while that they've ported it to a newer node regardless, because the power efficiency of the released orin chips combined with the leaked specs suggest that samsung 8nm just wouldn't be feasible for any sort of reasonable battery life. the repeated recent rumours about comparable visuals to ps5/xbsx is better than expected (which was 'around ps4/xbo with dlss and raytracing on top') from the leaked specs though, but those could be a bit exaggerated. i still wouldn't really expect it to be seriously competitive in terms of performance
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Sep 8, 2023 02:24
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Son of a bitch, my local retailer just got the 3060Ti Windforce in stock and they're probably going to be gone before I have the funds for one. I'm still running a 9700K, so I don't want to gamble on the current-gen budget cards and their cut-down PCIe 4.0 x8 bus.
Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 8, 2023 |
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Sep 8, 2023 02:45
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Yudo posted:Do you think Nvidia would go with Samsung after Ampere (I am assuming they would have some say)? Samsung 8nm was a bit of a dog, with weird power characteristics. RDNA2 was so competitive with Ampere by virtue of the node advantage granted by TSMC 7nm, and TSMC 5nm seems to be working out for just about everyone. I think NVIDIA is probably one of the most ruthlessly mercenary fabless-semi conductors and would use any foundry and any node that the wafer economics let them build a competitive product on (where "competitive" means some salable combination of performance, efficiency, and cost). They are really drat good at porting their IP to literally everyone, they had Pascal on at least 4 different nodes! (TSMC 16FF, 16FF+, N7, and Samsung 14LPP), I think they are probably one of the most portable IPs in the industry, they port to absolutely everything all the time and don't even break a sweat. I don't think NVIDIA has ill will towards samsung at all, and actually the whole situation worked out extremely financially and logistically advantageously for NVIDIA in essentially every respect. Yes, Samsung yields were trash, but Samsung offered NVIDIA a great deal upfront, and then when yields went to poo poo they offered NVIDIA a pay-for-good-dies deal (rumor), and this was such a great deal that it may have been behind the idea of 3080 being basically 90% of a 3090 performance. During a time when every single other semi company on the planet was scrabbling for TSMC space, NVIDIA had samsung absolutely to themselves and pumped out enormous quantities of chips extremely cheaply. Like as much as people whined, the Ampere launch was massive volume, they were shipping 2x the volume of pascal/etc (although of course the market has probably grown a bit since then). And Samsung made that happen. And charged peanuts to do it. (I do think that NVIDIA (and AMD) very strategically place their cutdowns, since the cutdown tends to reduce costs a ton. This is why 1080 Ti, 1070, 980 Ti, 970, etc have all been the high-value parts, they are the cutdown of those chips. AMD and NVIDIA place that cutdown in the more important of the two market segments. Well, on Samsung, the best parts are 3060 Ti and 3080, and to fix yields and poor node performance you simply make gigantic chips and accept gigantic cutdowns (3080 was 19% cut down from 3090 Ti). So 3080 was always gonna be a high-value part to some extent imo, that's the counterpoint to that "maybe samsung was charging per yielded chip and that enabled aggressive 3080 pricing" imo.) So again like, I just reject the fundamental assertion here that NVIDIA even has a reason to be unhappy with Samsung. Frankly NVIDIA kinda took samsung to the cleaners on the whole deal, imo, I would expect they are very happy with the samsung collab. And to be fair it's not like samsung has any other option either - nobody else is lining up for samsung 8nm or even samsung 5nm. Samsung did a great job being a cheap, high-volume trailing node supplier and that's exactly what NVIDIA wanted out of them. Now they want something different (with leading-edge node designs) but obviously at that point AMD was not capable of pulling away anyway, so this was a good financial decision. Would NVIDIA use Samsung 5nm in their own products? I don't know, but maybe. A higher-performing but still cheaper-than-4N Tegra would still be great, especially as AI really takes off (maybe automotive and other AI applications will follow). And maybe 5nm is an easier port if you're coming from 8nm. Either way for a customer as big as Nintendo I think nvidia would do the port just to close the sale, if NVIDIA didn't want to do it themselves and nintendo did, I think that's a low-cost option to reduce TTM if they want to market tegra using that IP too. Nintendo won't own the "ampere on 5nm" IP, just their own particular semicustom thingy at most. Anyway I also think that NVIDIA has a strong chance of being one of the "large external sales" mentioned for Intel, I think they're that ruthlessly mercenary. Intel really really needs a win here and if they are willing to do Samsung 2.0 and let NVIDIA take it off their hands cheap (because they are deriving value from having the fabs active/having the marketing win of Intel Custom Foundry signing a big client) I absolutely think NVIDIA would be down to play ball. By all accounts the newer nodes aren't the bottleneck for Intel anymore, it's the IP teams being able to consistently get products working and out the door. But even if it is, there's products like tegra where you can make a "lovely version" first and then do a pin-compatible upgrade next year once intel fixes the fabs, or stuff like big Mellanox or NVSwitch ASICs for adapter cards or switched-fabric switches. And I think NVIDIA is diversified enough that they're not tied to consumer products being the only thing they could possibly launch.
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Sep 8, 2023 02:48
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Welp, I saw the 4090 founders edition available at best buy so I ordered one. Supposedly will be ready for pickup on the 15th. Also ordered the EKWB full cover block for it. Now all I need short term is a new PSU with a native 16 pin that can handle it. Sure my 850w shouldn't be okay since it already deals with a 3080 Ti that pulls 400w, but then I'd have to use that ridiculous adapter. And long term I'll need a CPU upgrade because no way in hell will this 9900k be able to keep it fed at 1440p, but I'm less sold on any current CPUs because of a crippling aversion to buying the first platform of a new DDR generation.
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Sep 8, 2023 03:05
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Just eyeballing things, the die would likely shrink so much going from Samsung 8nm to TSMC 4N that, economically, it's probably a wash. If it ends up costing more per die, it can't be by much despite how much more the node costs per wafer. I'm high on hopium though. We already know that Orin has Ada's power efficiency features backported to it despite having an Ampere GPU. So it being on TSMC 4N would deliver killer power efficiency, as we've already seen. That would be great to have on a gaming handheld, and I don't think it's totally outside of what Nintendo would be comfortable doing. The biggest issue probably is wafer availability. Nvidia may have some capacity to spare considering that H100 is bottlenecked at the packaging stage and not wafer production, and they've cut back their orders on ada wafers. Not sure if that would be enough though. The biggest disappointment of all would be if they stick to Samsung 8nm, which almost seems like the most likely option because, well, it's Nintendo. Not sure how they hit their performance and battery life targets like that though.
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Sep 8, 2023 03:07
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