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eddington parked his maquis raider in front of the parliament buildings in ottawa and he won't leave until he gets to gently caress the prime minister
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Sep 8, 2023 23:17
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Tom Tucker posted:Voyager felt like it very quickly dropped the potential of the merged crews as a storytelling element, but I imagine that was due to interference because from what I’ve heard the writers really wanted to explore the “lost and alone trying to scrape by with two competing ideologies” and the execs were like “what about Jeri Ryan in a jumpsuit talking about tachyons” and made it much more episodic. Weirdly DS9 got to do the long-term arcs that Voyager didn’t. Year of Hell felt like the writers trying desperately to say “this is the story we wanted to tell”. They explicitly wanted "Year of Hell" to be a season-long deal and Berman et al. were like "but what if someone misses an episode? They'd be too lost! Denied."
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Sep 8, 2023 23:28
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It's definitely not great that they never really depict the plight of the Maquis colonists directly. All the characters who speak for the Maquis in DS9 aren't actually colonists, they're all starfleet personnel who have gone over to fight for the cause. The original TNG episode where Native Americans choose annexation over eviction isn't even really about the people on the planet because it's all a weird and creepy bait and switch for setting Wesley off on some kind of grand destiny. The episode where Ro Laren defects is probably the closest the franchise gets, and there they depict the colonies in the demilitarized zone not just being humans that the Federation seemingly has the duty to help the Cardassians suppress if they can't evict, there's also Bajorans who have no place else to go. The most detail you get about Maquis life is Cal Hudson's speech on there being constant violence against the colonists that the Cardassian government was facilitating, which everything else about the way the Cardassian Union operated does seem to jive with.
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Sep 8, 2023 23:32
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The Game! This is the one where somebody downthread did a description of it that made it sound like the craziest thing ever and... Yeah, it's certainly very silly. A lady from the planet Butthead (not to be confused with the planet Arseface as seen in the episode Deja Q) gets Riker addicted to a poo poo looking game that makes him pull cum faces. He brings it back to the ship and soon everybody is making cum faces. Picard's cum face is a very stoic one. Beverly's meanwhile is both very convincing and quite awkward because she's doing it when Wesley walks in. Yes, our teen whizzkid is back and snogging Ashley Judd and together they save the day by just letting Data do it instead at the very last moment. Very stupid stuff. However, it does have a faint Body Snatchers creep factor of seeing our trusty crew all ganging up to stop the young buck. And y'know what? I'm happy to see him. Unification I: For the first time, I'm letting a cliffhanger... Uh, hang. It is a loving good one and I'm intrigued of course, but I'm sticking to my two a night rigidly. The overall quality of the story remains to be seen, the tragic Sarek scene and subsequent revelation of his death, that hits super hard coming after the dedication to Gene before the cold open. I think I did actually see this when it first aired on the BBC and it was quite a big thing at the time, but I remember being bored by it. That would probably because I would have been about 11/12 and an idiot who couldn't sit still for five seconds. As an adult, yeah, reasonably gripping. Anyway, yes, Spock walks out, woo hoo, I'm sure I'll get a nice pay off tomorrow.
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Sep 9, 2023 00:22
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disaster pastor posted:They explicitly wanted "Year of Hell" to be a season-long deal and Berman et al. were like "but what if someone misses an episode? They'd be too lost! Denied." I hate to agree with Berman but he was right on this one. The correct answer would have been "3-4 part TV movie inside the season" because the money was made on syndication, not on first show. But Berman was a person so that also wasn't an option. Funnily after he left, ENT did basically only TV movies and bridge-over episodes and got better. Much, much better.
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Sep 9, 2023 00:27
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ashpanash posted:I agree! Or you could recognize that a story doesn't need long-term consequences to be meaningful or entertaining. Most people call "The Visitor" their favorite episode of the entire franchise and that one literally never gets referenced again, even indirectly. Der Kyhe posted:I hate to agree with Berman but he was right on this one. The correct answer would have been "3-4 part TV movie inside the season" because the money was made on syndication, not on first show. The vast majority of local stations ran syndicated shows in their original broadcast order anyway, this was always a network boogeyman without substance. Also, soap operas were a thing since, like, forever. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Sep 9, 2023 |
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Sep 9, 2023 00:55
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Serial mass media fiction predates television anyhow.
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Sep 9, 2023 01:06
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MuddyFunster posted:The Game! This is the one where somebody downthread did a description of it that made it sound like the craziest thing ever and... Yeah, it's certainly very silly. A lady from the planet Butthead (not to be confused with the planet Arseface as seen in the episode Deja Q) gets Riker addicted to a poo poo looking game that makes him pull cum faces. He brings it back to the ship and soon everybody is making cum faces. Picard's cum face is a very stoic one. Beverly's meanwhile is both very convincing and quite awkward because she's doing it when Wesley walks in. Yes, our teen whizzkid is back and snogging Ashley Judd and together they save the day by just letting Data do it instead at the very last moment. Very stupid stuff. However, it does have a faint Body Snatchers creep factor of seeing our trusty crew all ganging up to stop the young buck. And y'know what? I'm happy to see him Loeffler's Laws are the worst thing ever. Still, the pair had decent chemistry, Wesley is on top of poo poo in a believable way, and the game CGI is so loving bad. Good episode.
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Sep 9, 2023 01:18
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Wesley having to do a full on commando operation was pretty cool but again showed just how terrible enterprise security is like the time Data took over or the other time that super soldier escaped. Like the transporters should be password coded and if you don’t have time to get approval you should only be able to emergency transport into the transporter room. My favorite was data doing a “rolling force field” which made Worf and some other guys back up. Like my man they only appear in the bulkhead joints you can just stand still then you’ll be in the same “bubble” as him. Also the computer should be able to tell if it’s really Picard on the bridge entering codes or a deep fake based on, at the minimum, life signs present or not.
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Sep 9, 2023 02:19
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How many security breaches in Star Trek could be solved by simply installing a camera in sensitive areas, like Engineering and Transporter Rooms? There's more than once in TOS where someone just strides right into areas and no one's there to stop them.
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Sep 9, 2023 02:20
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William Riker says this game will make you cum in 30 seconds
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Sep 9, 2023 02:30
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Step-spock....wh..what are you doing
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Sep 9, 2023 02:38
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:How many security breaches in Star Trek could be solved by simply installing a camera in sensitive areas, like Engineering and Transporter Rooms? There's more than once in TOS where someone just strides right into areas and no one's there to stop them. Avoiding spoilers, but it's a minor plot point in the Lower Decks season premiere that the ship they're working on has had cameras installed every-drat-where.
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Sep 9, 2023 02:40
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McSpanky posted:Or you could recognize that a story doesn't need long-term consequences to be meaningful or entertaining. Most people call "The Visitor" their favorite episode of the entire franchise and that one literally never gets referenced again, even indirectly. No no no, you're completely misunderstanding my original point. Disaster wasn't a trite and forgettable episode because it didn't have later consequences. It was trite and forgettable because it was a generic and rote paint-by-the-numbers script. My point about the relationship drama that was in the episode is that it is my strong suspicion that the reason most people have any sort of fondness for it is because of the little relationship nuggets - and hell, looking back, I even misremembered that. I for some reason got Disaster and Conundrum confused with regards to the Ro/Riker stuff. Conundrum was a much more well-written episode. There's no contest with regards to The Visitor vs. Disaster. One is a well-written, character-based emotional episode with an intriguing sci-fi twist and a story it wants to tell, and the other is a lazy plot-driven bottle episode drenched in technobabble that apes old tropes without trying anything particularly new, interesting, or clever. It gets by mostly on the actors' performances, not because 'Captain Picard stuck in an elevator with precocious kids' was a story that desperately needed to be told.
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Sep 9, 2023 02:47
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How is it generic, it's one of the most unique story setups in the whole series
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Sep 9, 2023 02:57
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It’s literally a disaster movie plot. Change the character names and the setting and it’s one of those lovely volcano movies. Some different technobabble aside you’d barely have to change the script. How could it get more generic?
ashpanash fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Sep 9, 2023 |
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Sep 9, 2023 03:10
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ashpanash posted:It’s literally a disaster movie plot. Change the character names and the setting and it’s one of those lovely volcano movies. Some different technobabble aside you’d barely have to change the script. How could it get more generic? Following an established formula doesn't necessarily make an episode bad, though. Look at Balance of Terror -- beat for beat, it's a WW2 ship-vs-submarine movie. It's practically a remake of the movie The Enemy Below. And it's excellent.
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Sep 9, 2023 03:48
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In sci-fi television there are only about two dozen plots that get cycled through at random.
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Sep 9, 2023 04:00
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What I like about it is that it creates some unusual groups. Bridge grouping is great, the shuttle bay is great, Riker and Data and Data's head are great. Worf delivers Molly! Every character is foregrounded and has plenty to do. There's some real tension, some funny stuff, I'm not saying it's Yesterday's Enterprise but it's an A-tier episode
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Sep 9, 2023 04:18
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Just finished All Good Things, and with it, my first ever chronological watch of the entire series of TNG. I had seen maybe half the show before this, mostly episodes in seasons 3-6, but never in order from start to finish, and most of seasons 1, 2, and 7 were entirely new to me. A while back I got the Blu-rays and decided to do the full watch for the first time; there were a few breaks in the middle, so it's taken a little longer than I expected, but it's nice to have finally done that. I had seen All Good Things before, but out of context, as just another episode. Watching it again as the conclusion to everything, and knowing it's the last part of TNG in this watchthrough other than the movies, makes it hit a lot harder. I also decided partway through TNG that I was going to turn this into the start of a watch/re-watch of every Star Trek ever, so there's still a ways to go. I started on DS9 at the point in TNG S6 where it started, so I'm almost done with S2 of that. I've seen about 95% of DS9 already, but again never in order from start to finish, so I'm looking forward to watching it all again as it comes into its own. And at the right point in the next season of DS9 I'll start on Voyager, a show that I've seen very little of and am actually looking forward to experiencing for mostly the first time.
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Sep 9, 2023 04:30
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I like Disaster because it shows that Picard has changed. Season 1 Picard would have thrown at least one kid down the turbolift shaft on purpose.
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Sep 9, 2023 04:37
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Sash! posted:I like Disaster because it shows that Picard has changed. Season 1 Picard would have thrown at least one kid down the turbolift shaft on purpose. Season 1 Picard in Disaster would have been that statue of that dude fighting a bunch of babies for some reason.
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Sep 9, 2023 04:56
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Disaster gave us Worf delivering a baby, which had one of the best follow-up lines years later in DS9
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Sep 9, 2023 05:24
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:How many security breaches in Star Trek could be solved by simply installing a camera in sensitive areas, like Engineering and Transporter Rooms? There's more than once in TOS where someone just strides right into areas and no one's there to stop them. The refit Enterprise most certainly had cameras in Engineering. There's a whole bit about it in Star Trek III.
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Sep 9, 2023 05:25
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FuturePastNow posted:Disaster gave us Worf delivering a baby, which had one of the best follow-up lines years later in DS9 NOW??
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Sep 9, 2023 05:36
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Lord Hydronium posted:The concern of the Maquis in that two parter isn't really about moving from their homes because of border issues (like it is in Journey's End, for example), it's that they're living in a region that's supposed to be demilitarized, but from their perspective only one side is honoring that, and the Cardassians are secretly pouring in weapons to start poo poo while the Federation keeps pretending everything's okay. I recently rewatched it and their position was a lot more sympathetic than I had remembered it. I think later episodes kind of lose that thread and they become more frontier LARPers, and Eddington is personally not very sympathetic as a spokesman, but I think the early seed of it is solid. Whether to ignore Cardassian aggression or push back even at the risk of heightening the conflict is an issue that I can see genuinely splitting a lot of people in the Federation. Yeah, this summarizes it exactly. You even have Sisko frustratedly expressing sympathy with the Maquis ("it's easy to be a saint in paradise!") to Kira, without approving of their turning to violence.
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Sep 9, 2023 06:19
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nine-gear crow posted:Season 1 Picard in Disaster would have been that statue of that dude fighting a bunch of babies for some reason. "I'm... not good with kids."
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Sep 9, 2023 06:26
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Animal-Mother posted:"I'm... not good with kids." Compare with Season 7: "I'm a role model!"
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Sep 9, 2023 06:52
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SlothfulCobra posted:The most detail you get about Maquis life is Cal Hudson's speech on there being constant violence against the colonists that the Cardassian government was facilitating, which everything else about the way the Cardassian Union operated does seem to jive with. Imagine if your home was sinking but you had infinite places to move to and it didn't cost any money. Sure it might be a bit sad to abandon your home but if you stuck there regardless of the sinking then honestly gently caress you That's how I feel about the Maquis. Just move! You've not even lived there very long.
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Sep 9, 2023 08:04
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Taear posted:Imagine if your home was sinking but you had infinite places to move to and it didn't cost any money. does this make the cardassians aquaman
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Sep 9, 2023 08:06
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Arivia posted:does this make the cardassians aquaman Imagine if the people in the houses that are sinking because the world is ending got told "Okay cool here's infinity money, move wherever you like" and they went "NO" and started bombing the sea,
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Sep 9, 2023 08:12
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Taear posted:Imagine if the people in the houses that are sinking because the world is ending got told "Okay cool here's infinity money, move wherever you like" and they went "NO" and started bombing the sea, that doesn't answer the question, benny shaps
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Sep 9, 2023 08:15
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Der Kyhe posted:I hate to agree with Berman but he was right on this one. The correct answer would have been "3-4 part TV movie inside the season" because the money was made on syndication, not on first show. My understanding is that the Year of Hell wouldn't have been that the episode Year of Hell would be stretched over the whole season, but rather that the episode would've taken place over a shorter amount of time, Voyager would've stayed wrecked at the end and that they'd be struggling against lots of stuff they could barely handle all season for the episodic stuff, with the whole season being a hellish year. Berman rejected it because he didn't want them to mess with the formula.
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Sep 9, 2023 09:05
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bennyfactor posted:The refit Enterprise most certainly had cameras in Engineering. There's a whole bit about it in Star Trek III. Right, only to forget about it again by TNG. I love the trope where Worf notices someone going on a shuttlecraft joyride by the time they're halfway to Alpha Centauri.
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Sep 9, 2023 14:07
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MikeJF posted:My understanding is that the Year of Hell wouldn't have been that the episode Year of Hell would be stretched over the whole season, but rather that the episode would've taken place over a shorter amount of time, Voyager would've stayed wrecked at the end and that they'd be struggling against lots of stuff they could barely handle all season for the episodic stuff, with the whole season being a hellish year. Berman rejected it because he didn't want them to mess with the formula.
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Sep 9, 2023 14:22
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Lord Hydronium posted:That's basically what they did with Enterprise Season 3, so I guess he eventually got there. And then it goes on for too long!
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Sep 9, 2023 15:22
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ENT S3 seems like a symptom of network standards for season lengths. I feel like if it were to be made these days, it would be about ten fewer episodes, which seems about right.
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Sep 9, 2023 16:03
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If it had been made today Enterprise would have been cancelled halfway through season 1.
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Sep 9, 2023 16:32
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jeeves posted:If it had been made today Enterprise would have been cancelled halfway through season 1. Inshallah. 
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Sep 9, 2023 16:54
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jeeves posted:If it had been made today Enterprise would have been cancelled halfway through season 1. I mean, Disco's gotten four seasons, so...
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Sep 9, 2023 16:55
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