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The Grey posted:Speaking of this... I just learned about the time they "ribbed" Henry be sending him out to the ring for a match with Sin Cara, only to not have Sin Cara come out. Henry eventually got pissed, left the ring and returned to the back only to find it completely deserted. This seems wild, but the summer of 1996 was when they were getting super-killed by WCW, had just lost Nash and Hall, hadn't really latched onto Austin as a main eventer, Rocky Maivia was still months away, etc. etc. They thought getting a big Olympic Hero and making sure he didn't jump to WCW in a couple of years was an important move. When he did not pan out the way they'd hoped, that was the start of the humiliation from like late 1998 into the 2000s. But he re-signed to a less insane deal in 2006 and had gotten... if not GOOD, then effectively presented as a top level scary heel by that point. The Sin Cara "rib" was in 2011, long after the ten year contract and after Henry had won world titles. It seems like it was more just a "Vince McMahon is an rear end in a top hat and a bully to almost everyone" story than anything. Though Mark Henry later claimed that it was a teachable moment from Vince, because he wanted Henry to look as angry as he genuinely was in that moment to sell him as a true scary champion. Which is its own type of hosed up.
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Sep 11, 2023 01:38
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He probably saw him sneeze or something cause Vince’s brain is cheese.
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Sep 11, 2023 01:43
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The Grey posted:How is this supposed to be funny? Your comment about trying to get him to quit makes sense here, was that the point of it? Start by being a huge bully and then become completely out-of-touch with humanity and you get "lol he thought he had a match HAHAHAHA"
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Sep 11, 2023 03:15
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Swoll's deal was crazy, but I don't think he actually got paid more than the $31k on the company payroll that year.
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Sep 11, 2023 03:50
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The Grey posted:I remember reading Swoll had a $400k a year contract in WCW. Who has been the worst ROI? Lanny Poffo got paid a poo poo ton to do absolutely nothing right? Like maybe they considered that part of the cost of getting Savage but it’s surprising they didn’t do anything with him at all.
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Sep 11, 2023 04:33
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Maxwell Lord posted:Lanny Poffo got paid a poo poo ton to do absolutely nothing right? Like maybe they considered that part of the cost of getting Savage but it’s surprising they didn’t do anything with him at all. He didn't get paid that much in the grand scheme of things.
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Sep 11, 2023 04:52
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Edge & Christian posted:That doesn't really line up because Mark Henry's original ten year contract was signed in the middle of 1996, and was for reportedly around $250,000 a year, more than a lot of established guys were guaranteed at the time. Reminds me of a conversation Mick Foley had with a guy from merchandising in 1996, where they wanted to do a Mankind shirt, and suggested selling his mask, which he thought was a bad idea. At the same time they had Mark Henry everything: shirts, bandanas, foam fingers, etc. And then Steve Austin came over to break the guy's balls a bit about there not being a Stone Cold shirt, at which point the merchandise guy said “I’m sorry, Steve, but the office just doesn’t see any interest in your merchandise right now.” At least they had the sense to change course when Stone Cold really started to take off.
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Sep 11, 2023 09:37
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The Grey posted:I remember reading Swoll had a $400k a year contract in WCW. Who has been the worst ROI? Potentially Master P as he was apparently on 200k per appearance. There's probably others.
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Sep 11, 2023 11:31
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Michael buffer getting paid 700 billion dollars per appearance to only announce the main event of nitro and not even get the names right ftw
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Sep 11, 2023 11:56
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buffer made those hogan mains feel so big until they went 3 minutes with no finish
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Sep 11, 2023 12:03
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WCW just blew a shitton of money on poo poo like car stunts and celebrity appearances and Jay Leno "wrestling" a match. There's a reason they were deep in the red by 2000.
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Sep 11, 2023 13:59
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Hoss Corncave posted:Potentially Master P as he was apparently on 200k per appearance. There's probably others. Paying Kiss the licensing fee for the Kiss Demon and one gig comes to mind.
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Sep 11, 2023 14:12
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Can someone give me the tl;dr version of what’s happening with Kevin Kelly? I haven’t watched NJPW in a while and don’t watch Collision so I’ve only seen some clips online with him on commentary and it seems fans have DRASTICALLY turned on him (whereas a few years ago he was considered “good” at what he does). Like the guy doesn’t know wrestler names and/or move names? Making weird off-color references during segments? Has he basically checked out? Has he always been bad but seemed good by comparison to guys like Michael Cole? Counter-question: who are some notable “guest announcers” or “non-commentary person on commentary” you’d like to see/hear more often? Like Daddy Magic is pretty good on commentary! Dude could easily slot into that when he wraps up in-ring. Same for Eddie Kingston.
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Sep 11, 2023 14:32
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Can someone give me the tl;dr version of what’s happening with Kevin Kelly? I haven’t watched NJPW in a while and don’t watch Collision so I’ve only seen some clips online with him on commentary and it seems fans have DRASTICALLY turned on him (whereas a few years ago he was considered “good” at what he does). Like the guy doesn’t know wrestler names and/or move names? Making weird off-color references during segments? Has he basically checked out? Has he always been bad but seemed good by comparison to guys like Michael Cole? Not only "good" but winning best TV announcer at the WON awards, The best anyone can figure is that he was being carried by Chris Charlton, the NJPW product fit him better than the AEW product (slower/methodical so bloviating and inside jokes are a fine cushion, less pressure to sell a match as better than it is, no need to pause for adverts or perceived need to build excitement for the upper card matches during other matches), and that he doesn't have much chemistry with anyone on the AEW team.
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Sep 11, 2023 14:45
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fez_machine posted:Not only "good" but winning best TV announcer at the WON awards, The best anyone can figure is that he was being carried by Chris Charlton, the NJPW product fit him better than the AEW product (slower/methodical so bloviating and inside jokes are a fine cushion, less pressure to sell a match as better than it is, no need to pause for adverts or perceived need to build excitement for the upper card matches during other matches), and that he doesn't have much chemistry with anyone on the AEW team. Everyone just listened to the Japanese commentary and when Dave praised Kevin Kelly they thought "Well, The Podcasters would never lie to me."
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Sep 11, 2023 14:52
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BodyMassageMachine posted:
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Sep 11, 2023 14:52
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fez_machine posted:Not only "good" but winning best TV announcer at the WON awards, The best anyone can figure is that he was being carried by Chris Charlton, the NJPW product fit him better than the AEW product (slower/methodical so bloviating and inside jokes are a fine cushion, less pressure to sell a match as better than it is, no need to pause for adverts or perceived need to build excitement for the upper card matches during other matches), and that he doesn't have much chemistry with anyone on the AEW team. When Kelly beat out Excalibur in 2019 and again just last year i am convinced that people were trolling. I think it has to do with that he was the most consistent "fine" voice in NJPW for years that was also in English. Charlton has big Mike Tenay energy and everyone else has been colour or shown a complete lack of knowledge of the product to an insulting degree. He is the quintessential case of a big fish in a small pond because if you do watch Japanese English broadcasts in other promotions by and large the standard is "who can speak English" rather than "who knows and understands the product and can speak English while actively explaining whats happening" which is a bar that Kelly could clear. Hell he could clear it in the US too if he was on, for example, RoH he'd likely be getting praised because its his strengths but they have him alongside others who know the product objectively better than he does and are more charismatic and theres literally no language barrier so the audience can know things are "wrong" in an instant that could instead be never noticed because we dont speak Japanese so whatever he might get wrong is just unnoticed until Charlton points it out.
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Sep 11, 2023 15:03
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Can someone give me the tl;dr version of what’s happening with Kevin Kelly? I haven’t watched NJPW in a while and don’t watch Collision so I’ve only seen some clips online with him on commentary and it seems fans have DRASTICALLY turned on him (whereas a few years ago he was considered “good” at what he does). Like the guy doesn’t know wrestler names and/or move names? Making weird off-color references during segments? Has he basically checked out? Has he always been bad but seemed good by comparison to guys like Michael Cole? Kevin Kelly was fine. He worked well with Chris Charlton & absolutely deserves credit for helping Chris grow in confidence and comfort, considering he was originally brought in just to translate & slowly found himself being encouraged to add more input until he's comfortable doing solo shows. He's a right winger but largely kept it out of his commentary, though recently there's been some asides about ZSJ will stop being a socialist when he grows up, as if he's not in his 30s. But i don't expect people in wrestling to share my politics and people who do are a bit odd. He had some annoying quirks and stuff, lines he ran into the ground, but he generally knew the promotion and got across what was going on. No idea what he's like in AEW though.
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Sep 11, 2023 15:16
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I have not experienced Kevin Kelly outside of AEW where he is noticeably the worst full time commentator, and the difference between nigel/kevin and nigel/ian was huge, especially since neither of those teams had worked together before (as far as i know)
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Sep 11, 2023 15:19
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Captain Foo posted:I have not experienced Kevin Kelly outside of AEW where he is noticeably the worst full time commentator, and the difference between nigel/kevin and nigel/ian was huge, especially since neither of those teams had worked together before (as far as i know)
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Sep 11, 2023 15:22
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forkboy84 posted:No idea what he's like in AEW though. He was good at the start of Collision, or at least fresh. But he's just degraded in quality over time and last week he was kind of unbearably quippy and unfocused while still technically being the main play by play guy and it's one of the main things making Collision feel like a b-show. Which is a shame, because Nigel McGuinness has grown from a bad Jesse Ventura impression to a decent heel ex-wrestler commentator over the same period. Collision's main announce team is just cursed to stay at the same overall quality level.
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Sep 11, 2023 15:29
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WWE wrestling height question, I know them only hiring bigs greatly hosed up people's scope if how big someone was ir wasn't so after seeing thus gif I have to ask How loving tall was Joey Abs?  He's next to Test here and my takeaway is JOEY ABS would ge the biggest man in AEW if not for Satnam.
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Sep 11, 2023 15:44
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Lurks With Wolves posted:Collision's main announce team is just cursed to stay at the same overall quality level. idk about that, Ian was and is fantastic with Nigel. Collision was at its best with the two of them, particularly in BCG/FTR II. Kevin Kelly just sucks.
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Sep 11, 2023 15:44
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Lid posted:WWE wrestling height question, I know them only hiring bigs greatly hosed up people's scope if how big someone was ir wasn't so after seeing thus gif I have to ask https://youtu.be/iCl63XL8PBA?si=WjrCX9aEvwzuCyZE this is him versus Jeff Hardy, if Google is to believed (Adam Cole), Jeff is 6'1", so maybe 6'2 or 3, the Willow mask is huge.
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Sep 11, 2023 15:56
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Venomous posted:idk about that, Ian was and is fantastic with Nigel. Collision was at its best with the two of them, particularly in BCG/FTR II. Kevin Kelly just sucks. Yeah, but I was counting Ian as more of a guest fill-in announcer. You know what I mean, the Kelly/Nigel/dash of Jim Ross announce team is just doomed.
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Sep 11, 2023 15:57
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Lurks With Wolves posted:Yeah, but I was counting Ian as more of a guest fill-in announcer. You know what I mean, the Kelly/Nigel/dash of Jim Ross announce team is just doomed. oh, agreed completely
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Sep 11, 2023 16:05
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Lid posted:WWE wrestling height question, I know them only hiring bigs greatly hosed up people's scope if how big someone was ir wasn't so after seeing thus gif I have to ask   Billy appeared to be a couple of inches shorter than Dennis Rodman at All Out, and Rodman is (presumably more legitimately) billed as 6'7".
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Sep 11, 2023 16:07
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STONE COLD 64 posted:Both combinations of those teams had worked extensively in Ring Of Honor for several years each. That’s even more embarrassing for kevin then imo
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Sep 11, 2023 16:37
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Edge & Christian posted:Test was billed as "only" 6'6", and based on other screencaps from the time is about as tall/possibly slightly shorter than Billy Gunn (billed as 6'5") and Dustin Rhodes (billed as 6'6"), who are both currently in AEW.
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Sep 11, 2023 16:45
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I think Kevin Kelly is basically fine at commentary, but stands out on AEW because he's significantly worse than every other commentator they have. His calling of the G1 this year was also noticeably bad, presumably because he's kind of checked out now that his time with New Japan is ending. I keep thinking he'll get with the program because he genuinely was pretty good with NJPW since I've been watching circa 2018. And maybe he will. Not trying to psychoanalyze but he might have been off this week due to the news of his departure from New Japan. But he's been pretty bad on the Collision desk excepting one or two shows where he was merely fine. Obviously he's lovely politically and that's not something to discount. The whole situation is kind of a bummer because there are better people if Kelly never gels, but we may be stuck with him since he's a Name in the industry.
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Sep 11, 2023 16:56
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pete gas was taller than joey abs by half an inch. they made joey wear lifts to look half an inch taller the other way. it was a big deal
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Sep 11, 2023 16:57
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It doesn't help that there's this energy that's developed between Schiavone, Excalibur, and (when he's there) Taz that's made them just incredibly fun to listen to, and Kelly sounds more generic to me.
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Sep 11, 2023 18:26
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Dr. Quarex posted:It may be unpopular or entirely mainstream a view already but I think Jericho should slot directly into commentary once he stops wrestling. Agreed about Daddy Magic and Kingston too, I loved it when either of them popped up on Dark/Elevation/Whatever they did Kingston showing up on Dark and arguing with Taz about New York stuff for the whole match was amazing.
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Sep 11, 2023 18:31
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Kevin Kelly not being able to say Andrade El Idolo and then joking about it the next week before immediately butchering it again sealed the deal. Dude isn’t even trying.
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Sep 11, 2023 19:21
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History Comes Inside! posted:Kevin Kelly not being able to say Andrade El Idolo and then joking about it the next week before immediately butchering it again sealed the deal. He did it so badly it had me actually second guessing Andrades name.
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Sep 11, 2023 19:26
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Hoss Corncave posted:Potentially Master P as he was apparently on 200k per appearance. There's probably others. Even P's posse got like 50K a shot from what I understand which is NICE work if you can get it mostly for hanging out in the background and shouting 'hoody hoo!'
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Sep 11, 2023 19:51
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How much was DJ Ran getting to yell "Make some noise" periodically?
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Sep 11, 2023 19:52
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Halloween Jack posted:How much was DJ Ran getting to yell "Make some noise" periodically? He deserved more, I love DJ Ran.
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Sep 11, 2023 20:01
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"Kevin Kelly's commentary is good in New Japan" is either actual, unironic gaslighting or people's standards are so loving low for what contitutes good English language commentary on Japanese wrestling shows that he somehow clears that bar. I'me here to tell you he absolutely does not clear that bar, his New Japan commentary always had me scrambling to find a Japanese feed so I wouldn't be subjected to his Mr. Moviephone voice droning on and saying stupid poo poo constantly. Though maybe one of the lost recurring arguments in his favor being "his tone matched how bad most of the matches were" explains a lot about his defenders, but not why they were watching New Japan in the first place.
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Sep 11, 2023 20:05
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Honestly DJ Ran was doing work.
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Sep 11, 2023 20:20
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