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Clearly it's time to reunite the lovers.
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Sep 10, 2023 07:37
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this is SA, supporting absentees is what we do
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Sep 10, 2023 08:05
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Redeye Flight posted:Get those drat bikes back. Horner's questline rules, this cannot be debated, and it needs to be seen, but I have WORDS about the Vulture in SC2's campaign. Hell, about its representation in SC2 in general, which is basically the same thing because the iconic Vulture is another one of the units restricted to campaign and co-op. But we can't cover my big words about the Vulture until we actually see it. I take umbrage at the slander to the Vulture's good name. I agree that it got done dirty in SC2, and certainly the Hellion is a really uninspiring design, especially compared to the Vulture, but the Vulture was absolutely not useless as you teched up as Terran. With proper stop/patrol micro one vulture kills an infinite number of zerglings given enough time; realistically you can't devote that much time, but if you have a handful of Vultures the zerg player absolutely has to respect you and build mutas or hydras, or else you will dunk on his entire army with no losses. Spider mines are also crazy value, and once you have them researched Vultures become a fantastic value proposition even if they never shoot at anything but you get three mines down. For 25 minerals per mine you can kill units which are much, much scarier and costlier, and slow your opponent into requiring detectors to go with his push. It also gives you an answer to lurkers dark templar, you don't need detectors, as long as you know roughly where the enemy is you can one-shot his much more expensive units with your mines. Vultures were pretty niche in pro TvP but in TvT and TvZ they could really shine.
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Sep 10, 2023 08:14
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I was gonna vote for one of the others, but your mission descriptions made me change my mind to continue Horner's line
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Sep 10, 2023 09:08
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aniviron posted:Vultures were pretty niche in pro TvP
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Sep 10, 2023 09:26
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John Killtrane's SC1 LP went over Vultures and they're at least useful and at most vital.JohnKilltrane posted:So, to summarize: As for SC2, they're pretty drat strong in Co-Op. Jimmy basically has unlimited ground DPS because of them.
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Sep 10, 2023 10:15
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I will say that the Vulture isn't as useful in SC1 campaign as it is in multiplayer just because the AI doesn't respect economy the same way players do so harassment isn't important
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Sep 10, 2023 11:27
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Slaan posted:Get Jimmy his bikes back! DonVincenzo posted:Clearly it's time to reunite the lovers. Both. Both of this.
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Sep 10, 2023 21:37
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Let's go meet Matt Horner's ex.
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Sep 10, 2023 23:03
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Tarezax posted:I will say that the Vulture isn't as useful in SC1 campaign as it is in multiplayer just because the AI doesn't respect economy the same way players do so harassment isn't important Yeah, I will fully admit that I don't understand multiplayer very well -- I've never had the twitch skill to do PvP RTS stuff well, so my perspective is entirely from campaign and co-op. The Vulture loses a lot of its value there since the AI doesn't run, doesn't really micro, and doesn't do economics in the same way. Even the vaunted Spider Mines are less useful in the context of Campaign, simply because the AI doesn't need to worry as much about losing big units (though they can still utterly gut an attack wave, of course). But even then I could and can tell that restricting a unit exclusively to one gamemode -- and the gamemode they're not charging for -- is putting it on a lesser level to the ones included in both. And my main complaint with the SC2 Vulture is actually completely unrelated to any of those mechanical concerns. But we'll get to that. Redeye Flight fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Sep 10, 2023 |
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Sep 10, 2023 23:16
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I never really got good with the micro/twitch intensive parts of SC2 multiplayer, but you can get a fair bit of mileage out of just mastering the macro side of the game. All else being equal, the bigger army usually wins, and I found it way easier to practice keeping my economy up, not stockpiling resources, and being constantly producing units. Micro helps, but good macro is your fundamental skill. And it's hilarious when you end up in a situation where you're paired against someone who doesn't have good macro skills. It quickly becomes an exercise in seal clubbing because, even if you trade evenly/have a bad engagement, your focus on economy means you bounce back faster and snowball even from losses. Some of my coworkers wanted to play against me back in the day and... it didn't go well for them purely on the fact that I was pouring out an endless stream of units and they were not. Economy is king, and will take you far.
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Sep 10, 2023 23:49
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I just remember one of my very few multiplayer matches was playing PvT, spotting an incoming attack wave, and whipping up a few Dark Templars to try to quickly kill off their siege tanks while I scrambled my main forces… only for them to wind up killing the entire wave (and basically win me the match from there) because they couldn’t/didn’t think to use a satellite scan.
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Sep 10, 2023 23:57
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Just getting Dark Templar out early enough caused more forfeits than anything else, in my experience. Straight-to-DT build orders worked way more frequently than they had any right to back in '99. To be fair it was almost always against the kind of people that asked for a no-rush time. Do casual players still do that?
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Sep 11, 2023 03:05
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bladededge posted:Just getting Dark Templar out early enough caused more forfeits than anything else, in my experience. Straight-to-DT build orders worked way more frequently than they had any right to back in '99. Honestly, I don't think casual players know there is a chat function.  Warmachine posted:I never really got good with the micro/twitch intensive parts of SC2 multiplayer, but you can get a fair bit of mileage out of just mastering the macro side of the game. All else being equal, the bigger army usually wins, and I found it way easier to practice keeping my economy up, not stockpiling resources, and being constantly producing units. Micro helps, but good macro is your fundamental skill. Focusing exclusively on macro can get you at least into diamond league, even now! Micro is almost never worth it until (at least) somewhere around 3.2k mmr. After that point, lacking micro can lose some games, but you'll still win more than you lose until somewhere around the mid-to-high 3k range. With the exception of some specific things that may not be too intense, anyway. Masters is where micro starts to become required in order to continue winning.
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Sep 11, 2023 05:02
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bladededge posted:Just getting Dark Templar out early enough caused more forfeits than anything else, in my experience. Straight-to-DT build orders worked way more frequently than they had any right to back in '99. I dunno. I exclusively played ladder. When I quit, if someone had asked me for NR20 or something like that, I'd be showing up with a 200/200 army to kick their teeth in with enough resources banked to rebuild it almost instantly... I definitely did that when I was younger though. Me playing Brood War in early middle school and me playing SC2 in college were two completely different people. Watching a lot of day9 videos in that time is probably what influenced my play the strongest and got me thinking about how to actually play SC2 on the ladder. Fun fact: Brood War taught me how to touch-type, because chicken-peck isn't going to work when you're trying to talk smack mid game.
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Sep 11, 2023 05:16
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two-key macros for every slur in the English language
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Sep 11, 2023 05:21
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Warmachine posted:Fun fact: Brood War taught me how to touch-type, because chicken-peck isn't going to work when you're trying to talk smack mid game. I still have an idiosyncrasy of using non-standard smileys like :J and >:? because they looked cool in SC1's font
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Sep 11, 2023 05:23
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Hwurmp posted:two-key macros for every slur in the English language I actually got real good at talking grammatically correct smack about that weiner on your forehead.
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Sep 11, 2023 07:39
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whatever, fishwife
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Sep 11, 2023 07:59
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Warmachine posted:Fun fact: Brood War taught me how to touch-type, because chicken-peck isn't going to work when you're trying to talk smack mid game.  
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Sep 11, 2023 09:07
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The most correct and appropriate smack talk is when you send a fleet of science vessels in to irradiate the opponent's entire Overlord stack and type out FOR SCIENCE!!!!!! right as the attack goes off. The exactly six !s are essential, for reasons lost to history.
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Sep 12, 2023 03:30
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 Time to meet the missus!
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Sep 12, 2023 15:33
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Unit Spotlight: Diamondback Overview:
The Diamondback is a solution in search of a problem. The concept of a unit that can blast an enemy as they zoom by is really unique on paper, but in practice it's a niche that just... never comes up. Fights in a campaign are always slugfests, so you can't send a small group of Diamondbacks out to take some potshots on a fleeing enemy. Harassment is never a major factor and bases are always defended, so you can't rush in to poke at production before fleeing just as fast. Then you get into their bizarre cost (four loving supply!) and damage, and they get even worse! Even as a dedicated anti-Armored unit, an unsieged Siege Tank outdamages and outranges them, and even two Marauders will win out for only a few more minerals. Abilities  Fire on the Move
Armory Upgrades  Tri-Lithium Power Cell
For the low, low price of 75K credits, the humble Diamondback can... have the exact same range as a base form Siege Tank.  Shaped Hull
This could actually have a bit of a niche, making Diamondbacks a fairly bulky frontline tank. The problem is that it runs counter to the range upgrade, which would keep them farther away from harm. Field Manual Artwork There is none lol. Even the Spectre got some, and they're also campaign originals!
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Sep 12, 2023 15:34
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BisbyWorl posted:
Fun Fact: This ability does... nothing! Firing on the move is a property of the Diamondback's weapon, and is a property that can be applied to any weapon with a checkbox. BisbyWorl posted:Field Manual Artwork Yes and no. Spectres were intended to be a major plot point of the canceled StarCraft: Ghost, and had a significant amount of backstory and art direction to build on from their inclusion in Wings of Liberty. Diamondbacks/Cobras/Rattlesnakes/whatever-the-gently caress-they-were-called are just cars with guns that were designed to capitalize on a gameplay mechanic that was scrapped. Cythereal went into their origins: Cythereal posted:Diamondbacks also showed up a lot in early previews of SC2 where they were fully intended to be part of the regular Terran roster. Early previews made a big deal about units needing time to turn around or stop moving, and they'd only be able to engage units in front of them for units without turrets. Diamondbacks were hyped up as being able to kite ultralisks and colossi, zoom past siege tanks too quickly for their turrets to track and kill the diamondbacks, and similar. To say that they're "a solution in search of a problem" is incredibly accurate, because that's literally what they were conceived as. Kith fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 15:48
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Seems like there's a really "fun" mod possibility out there: Every Weapon Can Fire While Moving
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Sep 12, 2023 15:51
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BisbyWorl posted:Abilities explain
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Sep 12, 2023 15:52
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Hwurmp posted:explain The Diamondback is immobile while stationary.
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Sep 12, 2023 15:53
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Hwurmp posted:explain It lets me draw two cards from my deck, and add them to my hand.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:02
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Kith posted:To say that they're "a solution in search of a problem" is incredibly accurate, because that's literally what they were conceived as. I get the feeling from looking back at SC2 previews that Blizzard had a mind for a more micro-intensive play style, that the diamondback was supposed to be a way to break up the perceived monotony of siege tank centric gameplay and give Terrans a more proactive response to things like ultras and archons. I'm not sure I'd call it so much a solution in search of a problem as an artifact from an earlier vision for gameplay changes.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:02
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Hwurmp posted:explain Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:07
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Very early on, the revelation of the diamondback firing while moving as incredibly innovative and game changing, followed by the declaration that the carrier could autobuild its interceptors to capacity and that you could set unit production queues to repeat endlessly, if memory serves, was incredibly funny to, well, anyone, saying anything but "anyone" would be an insult, but it was funnier to anyone who had played an RTS, any RTS, in the last fifteen years. It could have been a bit of a warning, to be honest, but as it turned out the base gameplay of SC2 is pretty good, not my cup of tea but pretty good.GunnerJ posted:Seems like there's a really "fun" mod possibility out there: Every Weapon Can Fire While Moving Incidentally, since IIRC most melee units already have some form of charge / lunge, it should be mostly fine to adapt everything like that.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:08
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Honestly, the most disappointing thing about the rattler is that there's nothing snake like about it at all. Real world vehicles have the same problem. All these cool animal names and then nobody embraces the branding.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:34
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I think it looks more like a puma
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Sep 12, 2023 16:40
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FoolyCharged posted:Honestly, the most disappointing thing about the rattler is that there's nothing snake like about it at all. Real world vehicles have the same problem. All these cool animal names and then nobody embraces the branding. Now I really want to see someone properly stylize a Thundercougarfalconbird. A chimeric-looking car would be extremely cool to see....once.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:40
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I think SC2 has one of those as a civilian car. Maybe. I'll look next time I'm digging up trivia in the editor.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:00
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Kith posted:Fun Fact: This ability does... nothing! Firing on the move is a property of the Diamondback's weapon, and is a property that can be applied to any weapon with a checkbox. Since I never touched the editor tools, that makes me wonder if you can also make things like weapon damage conditional on whether it is moving or not? Like can I make it deal less damage while moving to represent 'accuracy loss'?
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Sep 12, 2023 19:01
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Kith posted:Fun Fact: This ability does... nothing! Firing on the move is a property of the Diamondback's weapon, and is a property that can be applied to any weapon with a checkbox. I feel like some Ability Tooltips just exist so you can have a mouseover label explaining something about the unit that might not feel standard.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:09
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Warmachine posted:Since I never touched the editor tools, that makes me wonder if you can also make things like weapon damage conditional on whether it is moving or not? Like can I make it deal less damage while moving to represent 'accuracy loss'? I would assume so. You'd probably have to use two weapons and make the fire on the move one the secondary. I dunno how that would work with attack moves and stuff though.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:20
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BlazetheInferno posted:I feel like some Ability Tooltips just exist so you can have a mouseover label explaining something about the unit that might not feel standard. "Yes it's supposed to do this, stop flooding our bug report forum."
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Sep 12, 2023 19:32
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Warmachine posted:Since I never touched the editor tools, that makes me wonder if you can also make things like weapon damage conditional on whether it is moving or not? Like can I make it deal less damage while moving to represent 'accuracy loss'? Yes, rather easily. The Galaxy Editor is powerful enough to do literally anything. And I do mean "literally anything" - there are multiple FPSes and Platformers and Kart games and pretty much everything you can imagine floating around the Arcade.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:52
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