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Bognar posted:I know you said not WoW or FF14, but honestly if loneliness is the thing you're trying to counter then I think an established regular casual raiding guild in either of those games is the ticket. Lots of old(-style) MMOs try to encourage social interaction via game mechanics in the world, but modern MMO raiding is an easy excuse to join an in-group of people and make internet friends. Honestly I disagree with this, smaller guilds are the best way to find internet friends. The issue with larger guilds is that a guild with 1000 active members or whatever is really no different than trade chat on the server itself, and you could friend random people in PUGs just as much as one of untold numbers you happen to guild with. There's just so much noise. Since guild level mechanics in games like WoW functionally demand huge populations to farm points the problem with bloat gets even worse. Ultimately if you want people to play with and it doesn't really matter who then large guilds are the ticket, although you can generally get that out of pugs. But if you want the kind of friendships that are in Your Favorite MMO Anime (It's "Recovery of a MMO Junkie") then small is good. Just not so small that everyone is constantly offline. I understand that soul sickness though, and I really wonder if that kind of experience exists anymore. I hope around games too much to really get a single game friend group going and all my IRL friends are much slower paced at games than I am so I get frustrated. The closest would have been back when I mainlined WoW back on Wrath days. I can't really put my finger on how things have changed other than to say that pugging is a lot easier, but in terms of online friendships I guess it could come back to the idea that with constant connectivity through apps like discord then, idk. No one can be happy to see you if you never actually leave. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 04:17
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CuddleCryptid posted:No one can be happy to see you if you never actually leave. Depressingly poignant.
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Sep 12, 2023 13:44
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THE BAR posted:Depressingly poignant. Yeah, it's probably melodramatic but I feel like more modern "online friendships" are closer to what you get as a kid in school than people you find and build relationships with. You're so on top of each other all the time that you form bonds just by proximity, but when you end up "graduating" (playing a different game, taking a break, etc) then 99% of that just dries up. It isn't helped by MMOs getting progressively easier to play over time as well. I remember people in my WoW guild that carried us through something super hard or, counter to that, completely hosed up in some stupid way. Hell, ten years later i remember one instance i ran with a guildie that insisted on bringing his dad along, who absolutely refused to wear any gear he couldnt craft (respectable) but had a low crafting skill so his gear was grey poo poo. But I couldn't tell you a single person in any of the FFXIV raids I went on that were just set on farm by the time I reached them. If you aren't in a high level raiding group (so 99.9% of the playerbase) then it's largely just a matter of killing time with anyone. You have to *specifically cultivate* relationships with people online and put quite a bit of effort into doing so, whereas the nature of MMOs in the past had that kind of socializing so fundamental to the game that it just naturally happened over time. When your slot on a team could be easily filled by whoever the game randomly selects from the entire playerbase, who will flawlessly and silently complete the task other than yelling at you to go faster, then networking is kind of ridiculous.
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Sep 12, 2023 15:23
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Small MMOs are definitely the way to go for feeling social. I remember people I played ffxi or old emulators more than people in WoW or ffxiv or guild wars. Which is kind of funny because so much of the sentiment towards MMOs is gauging whether a game is dead by the number of players. In my experience, a game only needs a small population to be able to be played and drastically more than that isn’t necessarily a good thing.
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Sep 12, 2023 15:33
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CuddleCryptid posted:Yeah, it's probably melodramatic but I feel like more modern "online friendships" are closer to what you get as a kid in school than people you find and build relationships with. You're so on top of each other all the time that you form bonds just by proximity, but when you end up "graduating" (playing a different game, taking a break, etc) then 99% of that just dries up. I see it more as about being 'easier to play' in some ways but the target content that keeps people there is getting harder. I think after classic we are all disabused about the difficult of vanilla WoW, but I think that's WHY it was successful. I haven't tried to do savage in XIV in a long time, but the last time I tried, in Shadowbringers, I felt like I was taking a loving remedial college course to learn how to do all the bullshit that's needed in a fight and it just was not fun to me. So much to remember, and way more pressure because the smaller raid size. The only good thing was that you could get rezzed infinite times. The older fights being generally easy as hell and out of a 40 man group only 10 people needed to actually be awake was a feature, not a bug. It's hard to want to play a game where you chill and kill internet dragons when you are under the pressure of modern raid mechanics, in XIV or WoW.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:09
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I would love in FF14 had some middle-tier content that was *engaging* to do with friends but didn't descend into '...and one person dropped their marker in the wrong place, that's an instant wipe'. The polarisation between trivially easy and excruciatingly hard content kinda sucks for hanging out with friends too
No Dignity fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 16:16
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Exactly, I kinda hated ever since difficulty tiers got introduced, it really muddled that and removed the comfortable middle that they should've been aiming for to begin with.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:20
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No Dignity posted:I would love in FF14 had some middle-tier content that was *engaging* to do with friends but didn't descend into '...and one person dropped their marker in the wrong place, that's an instant wipe'. The polarisation between trivially easy and excruciatingly hard content kinda sucks for hanging out with friends too alexander normal was more or less this when it was current. also a few of the easier extreme trials along the years, but those are pretty rare now unfortunately, people have been playing ff14 ever since, so the people that used to struggle fisting dad will now roll normal eden/aspho like it's a bad joke every now and then you do get a group of newbies for poo poo like eden's titan though, and those groups are the fuckin best, because they go on for as long as someone can raise a healer 
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Sep 12, 2023 16:30
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Eimi posted:I see it more as about being 'easier to play' in some ways but the target content that keeps people there is getting harder. I think after classic we are all disabused about the difficult of vanilla WoW, but I think that's WHY it was successful. I haven't tried to do savage in XIV in a long time, but the last time I tried, in Shadowbringers, I felt like I was taking a loving remedial college course to learn how to do all the bullshit that's needed in a fight and it just was not fun to me. So much to remember, and way more pressure because the smaller raid size. The only good thing was that you could get rezzed infinite times. The older fights being generally easy as hell and out of a 40 man group only 10 people needed to actually be awake was a feature, not a bug. It's hard to want to play a game where you chill and kill internet dragons when you are under the pressure of modern raid mechanics, in XIV or WoW. The increased raid difficulty has pushed me to never want to raid in another MMO ever again. Which is weird, because I loved raiding in Vanilla - Wrath. Now we have 4 phases and a boss journal entry that reads like they want me to perform heart surgery for the first time. Is it doable? Sure, but it just isn't fun. Make me miss fights like Baron Geddon in WoW having 1 distinct mechanic that you had to be aware of. If you made a fight like that today, it would just be too easy.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:35
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I've had some similar thoughts swirling around my head lately, about social games that kinda suck but also are fun. Like for my part that was early WoW which was my first experience with an mmorpg. It was an incredibly fun game to me at the time, but also it kinda sucked. You had to run around fairly slowly to get from place to place for the most part, you got lost, you couldn't find your quest objectives, struggled in a dungeon, got ganked, camped etc etc. A lot of stuff that genuinely sucked, was frustrating and not fun at all. But I think it pushed people to seek out others, while facing adversity together fostered a sense of camaraderie, and the slow and boring parts of the game gave people an opportunity to chat. I wonder if a healthy dose of what people (rightfully?) would call bad game design can have place in future relatively popular multiplayer games, and what the suck-to-fun ratio is that would stimulate social behavior like that, and if it's truly necessary at all I guess. I will say that beyond the regularly scheduled indie old school mmorpgs throwbacks that happen from time to time, Foxhole is the most recent game I think where I've felt kind of similarly. I guess it counts as an MMO, but it's not an rpg. But it does have a lot of grueling tedium that you face with your team.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:37
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I mean all that stuff in vanilla WoW just very quickly pushed me to stop playing vanilla WoW, but I've heard similar things from other people. I think aome amount of friction is good, especially in dungeons but I didn't have time for being jerked around like that back when I *did* have the time. Spending several hours to not clear a dungeon because it turned out the guy we spent an hour LFM spamming for couldn't tell his arse from his elbow felt like the biggest waste of a sunday afternoon there was
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Sep 12, 2023 16:44
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i definitely remember forming groups in everquest and having people die otw and having to help recover their corpse for an hour instead of actually playing the game it owned when it was a class that can cast invisibility but they either didnt have enough casting skill for it or they just didnt bother
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Sep 12, 2023 16:51
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In WoW, I remember being alliance and having to run to the SM dungeon from South Shore. A lot of the times, the group would form and we would meet up at the flight path to begin running through the zones together. Sometimes the journey was uneventful, but other times we had to deal with Horde and guards at Undercity. Sometimes we ran through the Murloc islands and died to multiple aggroed packs. That was part of the entire content package with older MMOs, these real dynamic events that would change the way you played, changed the way you interacted with the world, and allowed you to deepen community bonds due to overwhelming odds and annoying old school mechanics. The problem with adding systems, which I agree are objectively better, to the game that limit or completely removes this journey, is that you are also removing those dynamic elements and community interactive pieces from ever being created in the first place, and you aren't replacing them with anything meaningful.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:08
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blatman posted:instead of actually playing the game No Dignity posted:Spending several hours to not clear a dungeon See, I disagree with ya'lls posts because helping someone recover a corpse or dealing with a halfwit group mate is playing the game and, viewed through a different lens, can still be fun. You still probably gained experience, some money, loot, etc, though it was surely less than you would have gained if you had breezed through the instance. The modern MMO paradigm rewards brainless grinding and group efficiency, so players view anything else as "bad" because it increases the amount of time it takes to get upgrades. But at the same time we all sit in this thread complaining about gear treadmills and the sorry state of modern MMOs. Getting new gear and making bars fill up is not fun per se, rather it's your crow brain saying, "yes, yes! more shinies!" Sometimes going on a rescue mission to help someone get their corpse, even though it might mean less time in a dungeon, can actually be the more fun and rewarding experience – it's just not rewarding in the same way that a blue drop is rewarding. The dopamine receptors of most MMO gamers are so highly attuned to getting upgrades that anything else is basically ignored. Take all this with a huge grain of salt because at my core I am a sandbox MMO gamer at heart, and I'd rather spend all night doing something that gains me no XP or loot if I have fun doing it rather than pushing through the same dungeon three times in a row just because.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:14
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Kevin Bacon posted:I've had some similar thoughts swirling around my head lately, about social games that kinda suck but also are fun. Yeah, this is a lot of it and why that kind of thing isn't coming back. The reason why socialization was necessary in earlier games was that specialization was a big focus of classes, leveling was a gigantic pain in the rear end, and group content was both hard to do any hard to get together. Running an instance felt like a *special* thing rather than the primary method of leveling for every character. It took years to grind a character to endgame at casual play so you got extremely dependent in a single toon. There was a level of investment that I don't think you could reasonably demand now. So we got people making guilds and friends to make things easier for them. But there's a reason why "pre-LFG" is thought of so fondly, despite the fact that it was put in for a very good reason. It is hard to justify to the causal player who isn't a grognard about mmos why a game would intentionally make grouping harder. LFG didn't exist in game then people would just make it out of game. But more than that, the information availbile now is just so overwhelming. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no sense of discovery in modern MMOs. Back in the day you had things like WoWhead and DeadlyBossMods to help with quests but now it's something where you are expected to know every facet of a fight before you walk in, and that's doubly so for the hard fights mentioned above. You could just not read that stuff and go in blind but you'll be out on your rear end after one wipe. So there's no sense of discovery, fairly basic gameplay, middling PVP, mindless dungeons, and you don't even have to log in to talk to people. So what's the point of playing at all? E. I'm with Kedo, playing with a total fuckup is way more emergent social behavior than everything running smoothly.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:24
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I mean alot of the issue here was the hour spamming LFM 1 DPS 1 healer in City General before actually setting off, misadventures can be fun but the sheer tedium it could take to even set off on your journey has hideous. And when there's been that much prior time investment, not actually doing the thing by the end just felt like a complete waste of time
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Sep 12, 2023 17:25
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kedo posted:See, I disagree with ya'lls posts because helping someone recover a corpse or dealing with a halfwit group mate is playing the game and, viewed through a different lens, can still be fun. You still probably gained experience, some money, loot, etc, though it was surely less than you would have gained if you had breezed through the instance. This kind of experience exists in ff14 party finder and let me tell you, sitting around for an entire afternoon in basically LFG just to get some chucklefuck who cannot get past basic mechanics is absolutely not fun. You gain no experience because it should be mechanics everyone has already mastered. You could argue it's playing the game (except for the literal hours where you're not) but if just pressing the buttons at a red health bar is what I want to he doing I wouldn't even bother trying the harder fights. Anyway the lesson here is get a static, party finder is full of suffering
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Sep 12, 2023 17:27
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kedo posted:See, I disagree with ya'lls posts because helping someone recover a corpse or dealing with a halfwit group mate is playing the game and, viewed through a different lens, can still be fun. You still probably gained experience, some money, loot, etc, though it was surely less than you would have gained if you had breezed through the instance. The modern MMO paradigm rewards brainless grinding and group efficiency, so players view anything else as "bad" because it increases the amount of time it takes to get upgrades. But at the same time we all sit in this thread complaining about gear treadmills and the sorry state of modern MMOs. Getting new gear and making bars fill up is not fun per se, rather it's your crow brain saying, "yes, yes! more shinies!" Literally all my most memorable live and emulated EQ experiences are either this or other small group shenanigans. There's maybe one or two memorable raids as well, but they all tend to blur together. The last few years I was still active on P99 as a player was mostly helping out guildmates and often random people with corpse recoveries, breaking camps, escorting people to groups, etc., in addition to actually doing smaller pick-up group content like epic quest fights, key pieces, and quest item camps - all incredibly rewarding social play that didn't typically involve any material rewards for me. This requires putting up with frustrating groups, party wipes, and lost XP while you're making your way up to max level and BiS gear, but it also makes the game worth playing at all for something besides NUMBER GO UP. EDIT: I should also say that the only reason I'm not still actively playing EQ is that I don't have time - too many RL commitments. If I was a lonely person without these commitments I would absolutely be playing to help fill that need. aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 18:52
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I mean in my experience if you spent hours dealing with someone bad and couldn't clear the content you didn't get experience, gold, or loot. There's no extrinsic reward to these events, you just have to rely on everyone involved wanting to help out of the goodness of their hearts. Which they might have but it seems pretty unlikely?
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Sep 12, 2023 18:58
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Hellioning posted:I mean in my experience if you spent hours dealing with someone bad and couldn't clear the content you didn't get experience, gold, or loot. There's no extrinsic reward to these events, you just have to rely on everyone involved wanting to help out of the goodness of their hearts. Which they might have but it seems pretty unlikely? Imo that's kind of the whole thing. You can perfect a build all day long but the biggest superpower in those kinds of games is having friends willing to put up with you, who are willing to slow their Number Go Up roll to help. *That* is the fundamental gameplay that MMOs are built on. And when you get up there you play with those guys and help the next ones in line. I mean, we've all been in raids that we really didn't need to be in to make sure that Johnny Hunter was able to try and get a better weapon. Hell, it's dorky as poo poo but I used to play a lot of different mmos at launch after doing the betas and I often made a "teaching guild" of beta players that were willing to jump into chat to help answer basic questions like "how do I use potions". It was a total waste of time on our part but people were always super happy. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 19:30
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I mean this whole example was about completely failed endeavours with randos, not clutching out wins with new friends. The type of friction vanilla WoW provided made failure absolutely miserable for the time you usually had to commit to get to that point
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Sep 12, 2023 19:37
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kedo posted:See, I disagree with ya'lls posts because helping someone recover a corpse or dealing with a halfwit group mate is playing the game and, viewed through a different lens, can still be fun. You still probably gained experience, some money, loot, etc, though it was surely less than you would have gained if you had breezed through the instance. The modern MMO paradigm rewards brainless grinding and group efficiency, so players view anything else as "bad" because it increases the amount of time it takes to get upgrades. But at the same time we all sit in this thread complaining about gear treadmills and the sorry state of modern MMOs. Getting new gear and making bars fill up is not fun per se, rather it's your crow brain saying, "yes, yes! more shinies!" Yeah, I agree with you. My fondest memories of MMOs are times I did stuff like hosting a free-for-all fishing party at my WoW garrison, or when I've gone entirely out of my way to rescue someone in over their head, etc.. Nothing that had any game benefit at all, but still rewarding on a human level. I certainly don't remember all the times the dungeon runs went fine and everyone wordlessly performed their roles perfectly, even though those were objectively the most materially rewarding times and what the designers incentivized me to be doing.
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Sep 12, 2023 20:30
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No Dignity posted:I mean alot of the issue here was the hour spamming LFM 1 DPS 1 healer in City General before actually setting off FWIW this isn't really as much of an issue in classic EQ. Because it isn't instanced you just can go to the dungeon you want to do, zone in, and find a group that's already there with room. You don't need to first form a group in town to head out. The form a group in town to head out is largely an issue with instanced dungeons.
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Sep 12, 2023 20:30
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i gave it some thought and remembered that i made a ton of social connections and plat from helping with corpse runs in lovely out of the way / dangerous zones like some guy fucks up and dies in plane of fear, 60 necro could very slowly and carefully clear out enough mobs solo to get the guy in, corpse summoned, guy gates out
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Sep 12, 2023 21:06
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kedo posted:Sometimes going on a rescue mission to help someone get their corpse, even though it might mean less time in a dungeon, can actually be the more fun and rewarding experience – it's just not rewarding in the same way that a blue drop is rewarding. The dopamine receptors of most MMO gamers are so highly attuned to getting upgrades that anything else is basically ignored. I mean for all the fair complaints about high-end raiding, FFXIV seems to have this kind of thing consistently present throughout its community since launch. Last week, I tried to recruit some help running through the original raids (which aren't in the random group finder) so I could see the story, and it immediately filled up with people willing to help even though they'd have to sit around doing mostly nothing for upwards of an hour while I watched numerous cutscenes. There are tons of stories of that happening throughout 14, even if it's not necessarily the same group of people as the hardcore raiders. I am continually shocked regularly at how friendly (on average) people in the game are, and how tolerant they are of letting you enjoy story, or do something boring, and how little people expect in return other than seeing more people in their community have a good time. It's not the 'same' as the oldschool MMO social interactions, but there absolutely is a contingent of 'helping for the sake of helping' or 'paying it forward' that remains in this game.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:56
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Pryce posted:I mean for all the fair complaints about high-end raiding, FFXIV seems to have this kind of thing consistently present throughout its community since launch. Last week, I tried to recruit some help running through the original raids (which aren't in the random group finder) so I could see the story, and it immediately filled up with people willing to help even though they'd have to sit around doing mostly nothing for upwards of an hour while I watched numerous cutscenes. There are tons of stories of that happening throughout 14, even if it's not necessarily the same group of people as the hardcore raiders. I've tried to figure out why it mostly works in FF14 and my best guess is that the system of leveling other jobs and doing roulettes is constantly rubbing the experienced players against the newbies or encouraging them to try out new roles and become newbies anew. When a tank forgets their stance it's not "get a clue noob" it's "yeah we've all done that," when someone's missing mechanics their first time in a dungeon you've run with so many first-timers you're used to seeing it. I may not have individual players I particularly notice, but the sense of community is pretty big compared to games where you could draw a box around people a few levels away and you're not going to interact with anyone else. There are so many "get to max level, never look at that stuff again" games.
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Sep 12, 2023 22:07
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It is simple FF14 tells you to say 'good job' to one or two players in a four man group where there are only three choices It forces you to think of someone that did well and say good job and then you may also get a notification it is a simple feedback for good sportsmanship that sets the mood of the game of don't be an rear end and be kind
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Sep 12, 2023 22:11
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Content done with new/low-level people is also simultaneously engaging enough that there's a possibility you'll die so you need to work together, but also you are almost certainly not going to die so there's very little pressure on anyone which is very important. The bonus from doing low-level content also isn't critical in any way to being the best at anything and is almost exclusively to level up alt poo poo.
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Sep 12, 2023 22:15
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Also dying in FFXIV just does not matter until you're pushing hard content that has enrages (unless you're the only one in the party with a rez).
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Sep 12, 2023 22:21
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there's also a bingo game called Wondrous Tails where you get assigned sixteen semi-random old duties each week, and completing one gives you a pip in a random spot on a 4x4 grid, up to 9, with minor rewards for doing all 9 and increasingly better ones for getting lines of 4, with the reward for the maximum of 3 lines including basically the best gear in the game, and if you don't care for tryhard content it's not bound to you so you can sell it for a bazillion gil to someone who does the clever bit is "second chance points" which you can spend, either 1 to re-enable an already completed duty, or 2 to reshuffle your grid pips (so long as you have 7 or less). you get a second chance point for completing any duty with someone who hasn't completed it before, so helping out some rando almost always grants a material benefit I played XI for many years, NA release to halfway through ToAU, and I do not understand people who are nostalgic for that era of MMOs, but the "helping out randos" bit is very much still there
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Sep 12, 2023 22:33
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Every MMO needs to take a lesson from FFXIV about keeping old content relevant. Every day in running old dungeons for the leveling roulette, old raids for Alliance roulette,, stuff like that
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Sep 12, 2023 23:01
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queeb posted:Every MMO needs to take a lesson from FFXIV about keeping old content relevant. Every day in running old dungeons for the leveling roulette, old raids for Alliance roulette,, stuff like that only annoying thing about ff14 imo is that world zones get dead as gently caress max 2 months into expansions and stay that way forever in gw2, every single zone is always chock full of people doing events, but trying to do shadowbringer or endwalker fates in 2023 is an insanely lonely proposition
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Sep 12, 2023 23:41
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queeb posted:Every MMO needs to take a lesson from FFXIV about keeping old content relevant. Every day in running old dungeons for the leveling roulette, old raids for Alliance roulette,, stuff like that I think it really helps with the way they've implemented the class system. You don't have to make a new character, pick a name, get invited to your guild, gently caress with your bags, and mail gold to your alt. You just press a button and now you're a level 12 BLM ready to run a leveling dungeon.
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Sep 12, 2023 23:44
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Truga posted:only annoying thing about ff14 imo is that world zones get dead as gently caress max 2 months into expansions and stay that way forever FF14 is a dungeon runner, not really a traditional MMO like us idiots understand the term. It's a series of instanced lobbies not unlike GW1 where you socialize in town before selecting the content you do with a group out of a menu
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Sep 12, 2023 23:47
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jokes posted:FF14 is a dungeon runner, not really a traditional MMO like us idiots understand the term. It's a series of instanced lobbies not unlike GW1 where you socialize in town before selecting the content you do with a group out of a menu TBF that is almost every mmo. When you make instances easy to get into and also the most efficient way to get XP then it's going to be dungeon running wall to wall.
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Sep 12, 2023 23:59
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jokes posted:FF14 is a dungeon runner, not really a traditional MMO like us idiots understand the term. It's a series of instanced lobbies not unlike GW1 where you socialize in town before selecting the content you do with a group out of a menu i know, but they should fix fates or remove the shared fate gating for buying poo poo
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Sep 13, 2023 00:00
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Of the big three, WoW and GW2 have tons of open world content to do with other players you just see out in the open. FF14 is way different. It’s also more respectful of your time.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:02
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jokes posted:Of the big three, WoW and GW2 have tons of open world content to do with other players you just see out in the open. FF14 is way different. It’s also more respectful of your time. I would disagree, FF14 has a much stronger emphasis on open world content that is actually interconnected. WoW's zoned plotlines are fine but they quickly become something you do just for the sake of it because you leveled out of them so fast. The level scaling they implemented helps a lot now but previous to that if you even occasionally ran instances you'd be pushed out of world content fast just because they become far too low for your character. WoW has a lot of world content but in a functional sense when running instances is exponentially better for XP that's what a lot of people end up doing. VVV Listen if you can't summon the effort to remember the plotline where Eric the Flimflam ate a bowl of potatoes 279 gameplay hours ago then it's obvious why you aren't enjoying the cutscenes and deep plot. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 00:07
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jokes posted:FF14 is way different. It’s also more respectful of your time. I know it's not what you mean but watching cutscene #341 of a close-up of each character in the room staring poignantly and nodding and then saying "FF14 is respectful of your time" is extremely funny
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Sep 13, 2023 00:14
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Abroham Lincoln posted:I know it's not what you mean but watching cutscene #341 of a close-up of each character in the room staring poignantly and nodding and then saying "FF14 is respectful of your time" is extremely funny When you're into the story, the leveling experience is loving great. When you are not, it's so much torture. Because the leveling experience is just watch cutscene. Run to watch other cutscene. Maybe, if you're very lucky, you'll give two mobs before watching a cutscene. And then do the appointed dungeon at the set level. Aside from the dungeons, which at least look nice but honestly every dungeon feels like every other dungeon, it's so much tedium if the story doesn't grab you, and I hated EW's story.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:24
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