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Wait, no, this is a one time fee per new sale / F2P download. Was Unity not already charging per user?
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Sep 12, 2023 16:09
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quote:Also we believe that an initial install-based fee allows creators to keep the ongoing financial gains from player engagement, unlike a revenue share.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:14
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Well any fremium game with an ARPU below $0.125 will now be completely losing money. Unless they change that to actually be ARPPU.quote:We are introducing a Unity Runtime Fee that is based upon each time a qualifying game is downloaded by an end user. We chose this because each time a game is downloaded, the Unity Runtime is also installed. Also we believe that an initial install-based fee allows creators to keep the ongoing financial gains from player engagement, unlike a revenue share. "But we're going to ignore the vast number of freemium games and make this far worse than a revenue share." I can't see this staying as is and will be talking with legal / Platform Partnerships today.
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Sep 12, 2023 16:18
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pseudorandom name posted:Wait, no, this is a one time fee per new sale / F2P download. Was Unity not already charging per user? it’s super confusing because their own loving chart explaining it says "monthly rate". So which is it? A one time fee or per month?
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Sep 12, 2023 16:19
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drat Unreal really looking attractive to me right now.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:02
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pseudorandom name posted:Oh this is a recurring fee lmao. They just finished the port to unity  
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Sep 12, 2023 18:14
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xgalaxy posted:it’s super confusing because their own loving chart explaining it says "monthly rate". So which is it? A one time fee or per month? One time per install assessed monthly. But given how ID tracking works on most platforms, it's unclear how they could track users separately from installs.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:44
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Hughlander posted:Well any fremium game with an ARPU below $0.125 will now be completely losing money. Unless they change that to actually be ARPPU. I assume the goal here is to coerce everyone to use Unity's own ad-delivery service, since apparently they'll cut you a deal on the per-install fee if you do. But if you're making a Unity game on mobile, they want their cut, one way or the other. They probably don't give a poo poo about PC, the money there is negligible in comparison.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:33
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I assume the goal here is to coerce everyone to use Unity's own ad-delivery service, since apparently they'll cut you a deal on the per-install fee if you do. But if you're making a Unity game on mobile, they want their cut, one way or the other. Can't wait for a pirated game to call home and count as an install. "You sold 1000 copies, but 1,800,000 installs"
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Sep 12, 2023 19:52
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wilderthanmild posted:How does charging creators a per-install fee give them ongoing financial gains? Unless they are trying to push creators to have some kind of per install pricing model too. They expect creators to add microtransactions to their games. SimonChris fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 21:29
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Sounds like reinstalls do count as extra installs... https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1701679721027633280 as well as every time you start up a game through netflix/xbox/ps+ streaming https://twitter.com/unormal/status/1701673961795313778 What a shitshow.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:36
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Best case scenario at this point is they put this out as intentionally harsh so in a few days they can have their community rep put out a notice that they're "listening to community feedback" and later on post updated terms that are still way shittier than they used to be but everyone sees it as a win because they got the big bad corporation to walk back a bad idea. Because who the gently caress is going to touch Unity at this point? They're basically handing all their business over to Unreal.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:48
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Raenir Salazar posted:drat Unreal really looking attractive to me right now. Come on over. I can't emphasize enough how nice it is to work every day without worrying about seeing a dumbshit headline about the CEO's latest BIZNESS move.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:51
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Chillmatic posted:I can't emphasize enough how nice it is to work every day without worrying about seeing a dumbshit headline about the CEO's latest BIZNESS move. Yeah, 'ol Sweeny has never gone to war against companies running online marketplaces and gotten his most profitable title (temporarily) pulled. 
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Sep 12, 2023 21:56
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Chillmatic posted:Come on over. Definitely feels like a good decision in retrospect to take the job that had me learning Unreal vs the job that would've been using more Unity3D. 
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Sep 12, 2023 22:37
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Raenir Salazar posted:Definitely feels like a good decision in retrospect to take the job that had me learning Unreal vs the job that would've been using more Unity3D. I took the one that pushed me into management, which should be transferable at least
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Sep 12, 2023 22:45
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xzzy posted:Yeah, 'ol Sweeny has never gone to war against companies running online marketplaces and gotten his most profitable title (temporarily) pulled. They have a long, proven track record of doing the right thing when it comes to UE. They start fuckin' that up, we're having a different conversation. But until then, saying "both sides heh  " is a real laugh and a half.
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Sep 12, 2023 22:54
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a bit sus https://twitter.com/SauceJockey/status/1701629115529413062
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Sep 12, 2023 23:01
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2000 shares sold on a schedule has nothing to do with this
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Sep 12, 2023 23:08
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Well this makes me glad that Unity's not-at-all-backwards-compatible updates years ago hosed me over so I stopped using their stuff.
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Sep 13, 2023 02:16
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Epic has a history of hardballing their licensees so I don't have a lot of trust in their benevolence continuing beyond their ongoing consolidation of the market, but they're certainly not doing anything as boneheaded as this right now. I'm not at all surprised that Unity's bumping pricing since they are still losing money and there's a good case that they've been leaving way too much money on the table by not asking for a rev cut, but a per-install fee (especially at $0.20/install base) is pretty much the worst possible model they could choose. The thresholding is also stupid and being per-game instead of per-entity is going to incentivize dumb things like converting major updates into "sequels" with "cross-progression" to make it a new title and reset the install threshold, especially when the pricing is so bad that the fee savings from resetting the install threshold is less than the cost of cert. Why anyone thought this was a better idea than asking 5% of revenue is beyond me. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 06:19
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It's also weird to put the power to cost a developer money in the hands of gamers. Just wait until they start automating install/uninstall as a way to complain about something
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Sep 13, 2023 07:45
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Shemp the Stooge posted:It's also weird to put the power to cost a developer money in the hands of gamers. Just wait until they start automating install/uninstall as a way to complain about something Yeah something just smelled real bad about this and there we are. So anybody that did transition off of Unity: were there any issues with some common add-ons not having something comparable in your new engine? We're talking about Unreal, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. There are some things I would be curious about for going to Unreal like: ProBuilder InControl Odin Inspector DOTween I also did a bunch with Noesis but I think that was a mistake. Is there some XAML-like UI framework for Unreal that is more consistent? I got some deja vu vibes asking this so I wonder if I asked this before. I think it's from listing off Unity assets.
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Sep 13, 2023 07:59
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OneEightHundred posted:Why anyone thought this was a better idea than asking 5% of revenue is beyond me. The CEO thinks a per-install fee is more generous because it lets you keep all the revenue from in-game monetization, which only a complete idiot would not include.
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Sep 13, 2023 08:02
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:There are some things I would be curious about for going to Unreal like: ProBuilder - Unreal has pretty fully featured Modeling mode. InControl - Unreal's Enhanced Input is Unity's New Input System but better, and covers everything I've needed from Rewired/New Input System. Odin - Which features of Odin? DOTween - Unsure about DOTween but found this: https://benui.ca/unreal/uitween/
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Sep 13, 2023 08:49
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SimonChris posted:The CEO thinks a per-install fee is more generous because it lets you keep all the revenue from in-game monetization, which only a complete idiot would not include. But what if I don't want to include in game monetization.
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Sep 13, 2023 14:19
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Raenir Salazar posted:But what if I don't want to include in game monetization. Then the CEO thinks you're a "loving idiot" (direct quote).
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Sep 13, 2023 14:26
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The clusterfuck is even more stupid: https://www.axios.com/2023/09/13/unity-runtime-fee-policy-marc-whitten "As for Game Pass and other subscription services, Whitten said that developers like Aggro Crab would not be on the hook, as the fees are charged to distributors, which in the Game Pass example would be Microsoft." I teach both Unity and Unreal to students in college. Unity is just such a nice engine as an intro engine and is a lot more accesible for students. I don't have to worry that they don't have access to a machine outside of class that can run Unreal 5 (it sometimes doesn't even like playing nice on our lab machines).
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Sep 13, 2023 15:14
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what's happening with unity really reeks of vultures stripping the copper wiring
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Sep 13, 2023 15:23
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How is Microsoft gonna react to that? "Uh we ain't paying that poo poo, we'll stop accepting unity games if you try"?
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Sep 13, 2023 15:36
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At this point I feel like you could be the smallest relevant indie dev and if Unity presented you with a bill, you could dare them to take you to court over it. You'd have so many amicus briefs on your side. On a related note, Unreal! How much of a pain in the rear end is it? I'm confident it's overkill for my current project, but if I decide to do 3D again I'm not sure how battle-tested Godot is for that, and I'd rather not have to switch engines frequently. I understand that the only programming options are C++ and their visual scripting system? How long does it take to compile and run? How easy is it to inspect your game state while running?
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Sep 13, 2023 16:23
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I didn't notice any particular differences in compiling time using both for work and personal projects. For unreal you can either hot recompile live similar to unity or just exit and manually recompile, I prefer the later.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:59
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Unreal's visual scripting thing is awesome. I find it really pleasant to use/debug.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:17
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I actually kinda dislike the visual scripting and only use it for quick prototyping. At least partly because it's hard to do code review via git and some kinds of logic get very fiddly with the graph editor.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:05
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Time to creat install/delete script for this unity game I hate so that the dev gets fee'd to death, let's go! Money making botnet for unity woohoo
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Sep 13, 2023 18:08
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Seems ripe for tomfoolery as well, if the only source of "truth" for number of installs is Unity's own telemetry reporting. Pretty sure you could replicate a whole bunch of "install" signals without actually installing. Which means if there was ever a court fight about how many installs there actually were, then easily proving that you can fake an install would cast their whole side of the argument into doubt.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:41
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I wonder if there can be a case for some kind of legal action if someone is being over billed for installs if your own telemetry indicates only a fraction of the reported number of users?
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Sep 13, 2023 18:55
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roomforthetuna posted:Seems ripe for tomfoolery as well, if the only source of "truth" for number of installs is Unity's own telemetry reporting. Pretty sure you could replicate a whole bunch of "install" signals without actually installing. Which means if there was ever a court fight about how many installs there actually were, then easily proving that you can fake an install would cast their whole side of the argument into doubt. Release your game on Steam Release your game on Epic Release your game on PS5 Release your game on XBox There's plenty of non unity source of truths for number of installs that can be subpoenaed in a court case. I do wonder if this will hurt the smaller stores but that's at the machiavellian level.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:13
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^^^^ yeah you *can* use other sources, my point is Unity's source of truth is flawed and they're planning to bill based on it. And those sources most likely don't give you number of installs, they give you number of purchases - the more reasonable thing to measure. So first, the sum of all other sources of truth will nearly always be smaller than Unity's number, and second, it could be hard to know whether you actually got all the sources. Also, my point was that you can almost certainly falsely increase Unity's metric, after which subpoenas of other sources of truth would 100% back your point, that Unity was overbilling.Raenir Salazar posted:I wonder if there can be a case for some kind of legal action if someone is being over billed for installs if your own telemetry indicates only a fraction of the reported number of users? roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 19:17
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jizzy sillage posted:Odin - Which features of Odin? For Odin, I had used their inspector and testing stuff. I was using some of the inspector stuff to assert properties and add some callout text that would help me a month later when I forgot details. The Odin testing stuff replaced a level checking system I had to assert things like the given scene (level) having at least one start point and didn't have temporary cameras and stuff like that around, and I also use it assert individual MonoBehaviour things like my infamous floor plate from pages ago having a target to toggle when it is activated.
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Sep 13, 2023 19:27
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