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QuarkJets posted:You don’t need to back up a good opinion (starfield is not fun) with a bunch of dumbass ones about how Oblivion was almost an ok video game, Bethesda white knights do not have much of a presence here. IDK if you're saying oblivion was good or bad, but I enjoyed it circa 2006 and have never replayed it even though I still play Morrowind and Skyrim to this day. I honestly don't remember much about it other than the graphics being atrocious. And I think shivering isles was pretty good. I didn't think fallout 3 being bad was a hot take. I thought it was pretty well known that New Vegas was what fallout 3 was supposed to be. I almost never hear anyone talk about f3 anymore. I even forgot about it just now, in my mind New Vegas is f3 and f3 is just memory holed. All that is to say, my opinion of starfield is based on really wanting to like it in earnest and just being blown away at how lazy, and honestly disrespectful, it is. They put the most effort into the systems that are the least amount of fun. I wonder is this is a holdover while they train an AI model with their old games to hand place content for them in future games.
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Sep 12, 2023 17:59
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ishikabibble posted:Isn't it also like a requirement that you can only develop for macOS/iOS on apple hardware too? Indie dev friends of mine bitch about that whenever people ask about why their game isn't available on iOS. You'd be a fool to make an indie game and cut out the most spendy per user market using the most unified hardware.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:12
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satanic splash-back posted:I like starfield after an hour because it looks and plays like a 4k resolution oblivion mod with a whole lot of crafting and building I'm going to ignore Not ignoring them would actually be a very bad idea. The crafting and building systems are incredibly parasitic, require huge cross investment of perks, plus adds enormous weight and resource management, while not really contributing to combat or other gameplay. I didn't touch any of that stuff till NG++ because you literally have no actual reason to do either of them unless you just want to... and if you do want to, you'll run into the issues with the systems themselves being janky and clogged. I think to even get all the levels for all the building perks you'd be out of handmade content to do and starting an NG+ wipes all your resources and bases and everything, so you'd have to refund outpost spots and rebuild your extractors and outpost links and whatnot.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:13
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satanic splash-back posted:I like starfield after an hour because it looks and plays like a 4k resolution oblivion mod with a whole lot of crafting and building I'm going to ignore I have never ever built a settlement or even a spaceship, and I haven't done any of the main quest missions beyond what was necessary to escape from the first planet, because I immediately recognized that the way to have fun in Starfield is to fight pirates and then take their ship after you've killed them all. Much like the way to have fun in Skyrim and Oblivion was to ignore the main quest and just wander the map exploring caves and castles. And the way to have fun in Fallout 3 was to quit and play New Vegas.
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Sep 12, 2023 18:27
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Developing anything for apple is a loving nightmare because of apples closed garden philosophy and people only do it when apple has such a dominant market share that you have no other choice like with iPhones and iPads. even just building something natively in mac os is a loving chore. there are only one or two advanced code editors for osx, and you literally cannot hit "compile project" without paying $100 for an apple developer license. the editors are basically walking memory leaks too, i hope your project isn't more than like 3mb long ishikabibble posted:Isn't it also like a requirement that you can only develop for macOS/iOS on apple hardware too? Indie dev friends of mine bitch about that whenever people ask about why their game isn't available on iOS. unity is set up such that you can build to deploy on a mac from any operating system, but perplexingly, it can't build for linux unless you're in a linux environment  but yes afaik if you aren't in unity, you can't build for mac os without being online, on the most current version. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 18:50
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Unity is finally doing the thing I told everyone 2 years ago it would do, it's forcing monetization practices into games by charging developers a flat fee every time someone installs the game. They're trying to get devs to insert monetization features to pay for those nominal fees (this is something they've explicitly advised in their documentation in the past: inserting ads or MTX into games to offset Unity fees). And now everyone's going to drop Unity lmao
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Sep 12, 2023 19:46
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A lot of their c-levels also liquidated their stock yesterday this is going to be the 9/11 of indie games
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Sep 12, 2023 19:54
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godot keeps looking better every day
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Sep 12, 2023 19:55
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deep dish peat moss posted:Unity is finally doing the thing I told everyone 2 years ago it would do, it's forcing monetization practices into games by charging developers a flat fee every time someone installs the game. They're trying to get devs to insert monetization features to pay for those nominal fees (this is something they've explicitly advised in their documentation in the past: inserting ads or MTX into games to offset Unity fees). And now everyone's going to drop Unity lmao yeah but it only kicks in after you've earned a minimum of $200,000 in last 12 months, which is far in excess of what most unity games will ever make anyway so the amount of people this would actually effect is very small. but everyone wants/hopes to be a breakout hit so yeah it will be a deterrent.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:57
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$200k/year is like the bare minimum for a small 4-5 person studio to make ends meet, so it won't affect solo devs much yeah but it will affect any small indie studio, most likely
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Sep 12, 2023 20:50
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if you've got a pro or enterprise license which a small studio probably would then the threshold is $1 million i dunno what i really think about it, i don't have all the facts (apparently it's going to gently caress up charity bundles but i would expect they'll adapt for this cos of the bad reaction), but gamers are prone to massively over-reacting to stuff like this. these things are luxuries. being able to make an entire 3D game for basically no investment is crazy good. but people expect them to be free and also perfect. i think a lot of it is just because it is change and if there's one thing that pisses off nerds it is change. regardless i probably will look into learning a different engine for my next game anyway because i want something more lightweight. godot is weird to me but i could wrap my head around it. roomtone fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 20:52
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A 5 person studio would be paying $15k/year for Enterprise, which they probably aren't doing already but would need to do under the new model, yeah.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:00
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Actually probably more like $9-12k because they probably have 1 or 2 people that don't work in the editor itself and don't need a unity seat
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Sep 12, 2023 21:02
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The new license is also all installations of a game going forward. So if you released a modest success of a game in 2019 and you're getting a few thousand a year from people buying it for $5 during Steam sales, then those new players cost you money. There's a real chance that small developers will have to unlist their games to avoid dealing with this bullshit.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:05
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Random Stranger posted:The new license is also all installations of a game going forward. So if you released a modest success of a game in 2019 and you're getting a few thousand a year from people buying it for $5 during Steam sales, then those new players cost you money. I don't think you're right about this. You need to earn >$200k in the last 12 months to the current date for any of this to kick in at all. If you're making a few thousand a year on an old game, then nothing will change about that. There is also a minimum total revenue threshold but both that AND the 200k in 12 months thing are necessary factors. That is for a solo/small developer on a personal license.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:09
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deep dish peat moss posted:Unity is finally doing the thing I told everyone 2 years ago it would do, it's forcing monetization practices into games by charging developers a flat fee every time someone installs the game. They're trying to get devs to insert monetization features to pay for those nominal fees (this is something they've explicitly advised in their documentation in the past: inserting ads or MTX into games to offset Unity fees). And now everyone's going to drop Unity lmao "Hey guys capitalism is going to do a capitalism." "No it won't stop being so negative." /capitalism happens "Oh drat capitalism who'd've thunk" roomtone posted:I don't think you're right about this. You need to earn >$200k in the last 12 months to the current date for any of this to kick in at all. If you're making a few thousand a year on an old game, then nothing will change about that. There is also a minimum total revenue threshold but both that AND the 200k in 12 months thing are necessary factors. That is for a solo/small developer on a personal license. I'm sure you're right that the standards make the situation more forgiving than it seems, where you'd have to be reasonably successful before the fees really become a pain in the dick, but it's not like $200k is some sort of fanciful pie-in-the-sky number for any studio seriously trying to compete in the market. And it won't be that bad in a way end consumers feel outside of  motherfuckers pointing out that there's less low-end trash glutting up Steam for a few years.But like most capitalisms the more capitalist you do it the more capitalist it is, and gating the entryway so only the moneyed and existing players can survive will stifle innovation and discourage prospective artists to the indie space. The diehards will migrate to other affordable options, but yeah it's definitely the changing of an era and one very classically in-line with the problems that accompany capitalist marketplaces.
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Sep 12, 2023 21:34
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I think a lot more egregious is the removal of the Unity plus plan. If your organization makes a measly 100K in gross revenue in a year, including funds raised, then you will have no choice but to shell out for Unity pro, which is an insane 2K per seat, per year. Aramis fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 21:45
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I actually have the data to estimate this  By my calculations fewer than 1% of players of a game review it in the first 2 weeks after launch. Bigger launches see up to 2-3% but for the smaller games it's usually lower. Approximately 11% of games released on Steam receive at least 125 reviews (and therefore sell at least 12,500 copies) in their first 2 weeks, and the average price of those games is $19.43 which puts them at $243k in revenue within 2 weeks. So a loose estimation says that this will affect the top 11% of Unity devs. Well, actually more because this is only the first 2 weeks of a game's lifespan, but that seems to be when the lion's share of sales happen. e: This is of course a very loose approximation that doesn't account for things like non-Q3 sales, what engine these games are developed in, etc. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 22:00
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deep dish peat moss posted:Unity is finally doing the thing I told everyone 2 years ago it would do, it's forcing monetization practices into games by charging developers a flat fee every time someone installs the game. They're trying to get devs to insert monetization features to pay for those nominal fees (this is something they've explicitly advised in their documentation in the past: inserting ads or MTX into games to offset Unity fees). And now everyone's going to drop Unity lmao i hated unity since 2018, but i had no other real options. but the time is now. i got godot set up and communicating with my code editor. now i just have to correct 190,000 between-engine discrepancies and we will be. back. in. business!!!! roomtone posted:yeah but it only kicks in after you've earned a minimum of $200,000 in last 12 months OR 200,000 installs. per install, in perpetuity. poo poo is hosed.
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Sep 12, 2023 22:48
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it's and, not or
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Sep 12, 2023 22:50
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deep dish peat moss posted:I actually have the data to estimate this I genuinely wonder how this will unfold and how this will affect ongoing dev projects. I know this won't kill the industry (obviously), but I wonder just how much of those companies will be willing to put up with these arbitrary bullshit fees? Though I say that and companies like Adobe wormed their way with lovely business models for end users, and they're still around and very much alive and people pay them out the rear end, so the gently caress do I know.
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Sep 12, 2023 23:35
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Reoxygenation posted:Though I say that and companies like Adobe wormed their way with lovely business models for end users, and they're still around and very much alive and people pay them out the rear end, so the gently caress do I know. if adobe started charging you a tenth of a cent for every time someone accessed an image you made in photoshop, people would switch to gimp overnight
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Sep 12, 2023 23:40
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Fur20 posted:if adobe started charging you a tenth of a cent for every time someone accessed an image you made in photoshop, people would switch to gimp overnight They probably aren't too far away from that, with how insane the licensing for their poo poo has gotten. But true.
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Sep 12, 2023 23:50
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Reoxygenation posted:They probably aren't too far away from that, with how insane the licensing for their poo poo has gotten. But true. I like the "you can pay us for the license but if you cancel, we charge you more" approach
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Sep 12, 2023 23:57
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Unity sucks, if they start charging too much people are just gonna use godot. Godot has (many) issues but they will sort them out as time goes on and they attract more contributors. I've been using godot since 2014 and the progress they've made is pretty incredible. If linux and blender can teach us anything, its that open source software can compete with paid software. That being said, I actually don't really care for godot. I have a hard time with dynamic/pythonic languages and vastly prefer to use c++. However, in order to avoid statically linking the engine, I opted to make a plugin - hoo boy does the godot-cpp api suck. And it's never going to change because the people who maintain it don't care.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:07
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I think Unreal only starts asking for money after you've pulled in $1 million But it also forces you to use the Epic Games Launcher 
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Sep 13, 2023 01:00
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they don't force you to release on the epic store but they do incentivize it, normally they take a 5% cut of revenue but sales via EGS are exempt from that so the engine is "free" in that case
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Sep 13, 2023 01:14
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What sales
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Sep 13, 2023 01:18
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jokes posted:What sales lol burn
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Sep 13, 2023 01:19
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Bro don't you just want to make your sandcastle with the equivalent of a bulldozer? Unreal can look amazing but half the indie games I see with it have that weird plastic look
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Sep 13, 2023 01:27
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so i'm reading more about this unity change and apparently it's the publisher or distributor who pays the fee. imagine if steam or gog or epic delisted your game because of downloads, lol, lmao. itch probably won't even carry unity games
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Sep 13, 2023 01:37
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repiv posted:they don't force you to release on the epic store but they do incentivize it, normally they take a 5% cut of revenue but sales via EGS are exempt from that so the engine is "free" in that case I mean *I* have to use it lol
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Sep 13, 2023 01:42
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Fur20 posted:so i'm reading more about this unity change and apparently it's the publisher or distributor who pays the fee. what do you want to bet unity is getting ready to announce a store and will waive the fee if you list with their store They already have a team maintaining their asset store
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Sep 13, 2023 01:44
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Cosmik Debris posted:what do you want to bet unity is getting ready to announce a store and will waive the fee if you list with their store i’m not too fond of this next-gen platform gaming
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Sep 13, 2023 02:10
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Godot is good and getting better all the time. At least with Unreal Engine you can make something and then simply not put it on the EGS. You could just put it on Steam, or a zip file on a weirdly named server for all it matters.
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Sep 13, 2023 03:18
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Lots of big name studios make their mobile games from Unity and poo poo so I expect big loving lawsuits to come. That CEO is about to take his bonus, sell his stocks, and hit the loving road real quick lol.
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Sep 13, 2023 03:36
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he'll never work in the industry again!
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Sep 13, 2023 03:37
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Cosmik Debris posted:Bro don't you just want to make your sandcastle with the equivalent of a bulldozer? Surely part of the reason is it's historically been much easier for them to pick an achievable art style to lean into over the expense of modern cutting edge graphics. But if they can make a AAA looking game with free and cheap assets, surely some of them would benefit. Not to mention making your own art style and models is still achievable, might even be easier on the artists.
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Sep 13, 2023 03:46
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Khanstant posted:Surely part of the reason is it's historically been much easier for them to pick an achievable art style to lean into over the expense of modern cutting edge graphics. But if they can make a AAA looking game with free and cheap assets, surely some of them would benefit. Not to mention making your own art style and models is still achievable, might even be easier on the artists. Its cause they don't change the default settings. Each engine has a "look", that I can generally tell, because of how close to the default a game looks. I'm not knocking it, its just Unreal is a behemoth of an engine, and it has *so* many systems that the learning curve is insane. They also *really* want you to use blueprints, no matter how awful they are for me as a programmer. Godot, for all it's faults, is pretty stripped down. So, yeah, it's harder to, say, create a character or animation with the built-in tools, but it is possible. Basically godot forces you to push a lot of your work load onto blender (or other tools), whereas Unreal (and unity iirc) have built in tools (or popular plugins) to do just about everything. Ex. Godot has no terrain editor. Also, we haven't really seen many (indie) games released with Unreal 5 (afaik), which looks stunning. I think the default settings, nanite, and lumen will make the next crop of unreal indy games look pretty good. If they can run them. Unreal is a huge resource hog, both the engine and the runtimes it produces.
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Sep 13, 2023 04:01
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I'm gonna play Enemy Zero tomrrow. I don't care what you say, you can't stop me.
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Sep 13, 2023 04:53
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