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pantslesswithwolves posted:Edit: a lot of my friends work for the federal government and they’re anticipating that Biden ordering people back into the office is going to prompt a lot of brain drain. Yuuup. The guy I was hired to replace was planning on retiring when COVID hit so he rode out the WFH train until they started to mandate 2 days a week in the office and he put in his papers. I see a lot of olds retiring, which isn't a bad thing but then I could also see some young people bounce as well. Currently we are at 2 days a week in the office but I know a command who got a new director and his big thing was people first so they have 1 day a week in the office. I told my boomer team lead about that and he doesn't like it but then he wants everyone back in the office. Like what Pine Cone Jones said I only talk to people over TEAMS or the phone anyway. I guess I am an anomaly because I come into the office everyday. If I don't then I will be in my apartment basically 24/7 and go stir crazy. If I had a house I totally would take advantage of WFH though.
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Sep 13, 2023 22:09
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99.9999% of the time I spend in my office 45 minutes away is spent working alone or teleconferencing since were all matrixed employees. I’ll be damned if I give up the two or three WFH days I can swing each week to prop up a business owner in a city I want to spend zero nanoseconds longer in than necessary
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Sep 13, 2023 22:41
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Wrong Theory posted:Yuuup. The guy I was hired to replace was planning on retiring when COVID hit so he rode out the WFH train until they started to mandate 2 days a week in the office and he put in his papers. I see a lot of olds retiring, which isn't a bad thing but then I could also see some young people bounce as well. Currently we are at 2 days a week in the office but I know a command who got a new director and his big thing was people first so they have 1 day a week in the office. I told my boomer team lead about that and he doesn't like it but then he wants everyone back in the office. Like what Pine Cone Jones said I only talk to people over TEAMS or the phone anyway. My job can be entirely be done from home, as all of my meetings are on teams and I work off of a laptop, so when travel is needed I don't need to worry about extra poo poo. I know the reasons why people want others to return to the office, but I don't get it. E: I also hate offices and have found that I'm entirely incompatible with them, if I was told to return full time to the office, I'd see about returning to my WG job if I could get at least close to the same pay. Pine Cone Jones fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 22:42
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I’m fine with people having a preference to be in the office, sometimes I feel the same way depending on the kind of work I’m doing. What makes me chafe is when I see people who think they need to drag others into the office with them so they can have their preferred experience.
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Sep 13, 2023 22:44
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My job could be easily work from home but they want that instant customer support when in reality the amount of times I need to go physically inspect anything is 1-2 a week max. Navy is silly.
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Sep 13, 2023 22:46
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In other news... Mexico claims to show 2 alien corpses to their congress: https://www.npr.org/2023/09/13/1199251336/mexico-alien-corpses-congressquote:MEXICO CITY — Mexico's Congress heard testimony from experts who study extraterrestrials on Tuesday. Dios mio, esta lleno de estrellas.
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Sep 13, 2023 23:22
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bulletsponge13 posted:Classified data on the F/A-117 Nighthawk Fuckin lmao Who's got the "0 days since" pic
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Sep 13, 2023 23:49
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pantslesswithwolves posted:I’ve taken Teams meetings in my empty office when I could have done the same thing from home. It’s awful and makes no sense whatsoever, and it’s the main reason why I’m looking for another job. I take virtual-only Teams meetings that are populated mostly or entirely by people in the same building as me. The company has plenty of very sophisticated conference rooms but nobody wants or needs to take an elevator, so they don't. I worked with one senior director for three months before meeting him in person. We're 5 floors apart.
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Sep 13, 2023 23:51
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Discussion Quorum posted:I take virtual-only Teams meetings that are populated mostly or entirely by people in the same building as me. The company has plenty of very sophisticated conference rooms but nobody wants or needs to take an elevator, so they don't. I worked with one senior director for three months before meeting him in person. We're 5 floors apart. Sounds heavenly.
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Sep 13, 2023 23:57
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Offices aren't entirely terrible, but open offices are something that should get you thrown out a ten story window. That said I've been fully remote since the pandemic. I wouldn't mind having an option to actually go to an office sometimes, just as a place to do work that isn't home, but in practice it seems to be all or (increasingly) nothing.
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Sep 14, 2023 00:11
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Crab Dad posted:Navy is silly. 
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Sep 14, 2023 00:55
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I'm weird, I actually like physically going to work despite me hating the traffic here in the DMV area. I guess because I have no spouse/gf and almost no friends, so that's my time to get actual human interaction that my brain desperately craves.
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Sep 14, 2023 02:46
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Jimmy Smuts posted:I'm weird, I actually like physically going to work despite me hating the traffic here in the DMV area. I guess because I have no spouse/gf and almost no friends, so that's my time to get actual human interaction that my brain desperately craves. And there's nothing wrong with that! Different people can be happier or more productive in different working environments, and there are plenty of employers who will accomodate someone wanting to go into an office. As long as you're not advocating for bringing people who are not you into the office against their will, you do you.
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Sep 14, 2023 02:55
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Jimmy Smuts posted:I'm weird, I actually like physically going to work despite me hating the traffic here in the DMV area. I guess because I have no spouse/gf and almost no friends, so that's my time to get actual human interaction that my brain desperately craves. I'm not in downtown downtown Seattle, but immediately adjacent, dense neighborhoods that have a ton of people living in them seem to be doing great. There are currently several thousand new homes under construction in a two-mile radius. WFH is nice to have when you need it, but full remote work has negative consequences for society and our built environment.
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Sep 14, 2023 03:01
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I dont get how business owners and ceos arent totally on board with offloading the cost of furniture, office space, and utilities to their employees and using the savings to give themselves bonuses. If you want a status symbol just drop your squarefootage needs to an extremely posh conference room in a sky rise somewhere.
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Sep 14, 2023 03:31
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Defenestrategy posted:I dont get how business owners and ceos arent totally on board with offloading the cost of furniture, office space, and utilities to their employees and using the savings to give themselves bonuses. Because then they can't visibly micromanage you. And a lot of that opex gets written off in taxes. They would actually likely pay higher taxes without a building.
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Sep 14, 2023 03:36
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Jimmy Smuts posted:I'm weird, I actually like physically going to work despite me hating the traffic here in the DMV area. I guess because I have no spouse/gf and almost no friends, so that's my time to get actual human interaction that my brain desperately craves. Yeah, I do a couple days in the office (usually wednesday/thursday) to shoot the poo poo with people and collaborate in person. I much prefer rolling my chair over to a teammate's desk if they're not busy to talk about something than try to do the whole teams message -> bullshit small talk nobody really wants -> maybe get on a call to talk about whatever it is. Plus it gives us an opportunity once in a while to order lunch and charge it to the company on the grounds of "team building". We've been hiring new grads into my team over the past couple years, most of whom never had the 2020 experience of full time wfh, there is no office, don't come in, so they're in the office usually 4 days a week. Meanwhile if you want me to get up before 9am on a Monday or be logged off and at home after 5pm on a Friday, you're going to need to bribe me.
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Sep 14, 2023 03:47
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Yeah, impressively bad take a few posts back. Managing my staff isn’t any harder remotely because so much work is already done remotely to begin with across broad regions, and I know the technical end of the work being done well enough to monitor performance. The communication piece is a challenge, but that’s a question of setting standards and managing expectations. People would save everyone a lot of trouble and words if they just dropped the pretense of this being anything more than preference on the part of management and instead acknowledge how much they hate WFH and their employees/coworkers. Also pointing at serendipitous conversations as the reason you succeed is both tired and not a compliment to your business model/plan.
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Sep 14, 2023 03:48
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My previous job was FT WFH after the pandemic hit, which was funny considering the whole "No more FT WFH!" saga that happened about a year before the pandemic. Anyways, I feel like it's highly team/job dependent. One team I was on was great about WFH because the manager didn't micromanage and let you get your work done in peace. My last team was the opposite, my manager would constantly micromanage, gossip in one on ones rather than go over work stuff, throw last minute projects at you with little to no explanation as to what they were and then acted like a child when you asked for clarification. Oh and treat WFH as "you can work whenever since you're at home, so who cares if you have to work on the weekend for a few hours?" gently caress that poo poo. So I quit, took some time off, and changed careers. I work in office four days a week, which, I don't love that part but I don't see it being that way forever, and it's honestly not that bad. I'm also significantly happier in this career cause compared to my last job, I feel like I'm always learning and growing, not to mention my boss isn't a shithead. Anyways, as someone else already said, I think WFH can be great so long as your team/work is solid, and I get why some people still want to work in an office. It's just the shitheads trying to force everyone to return to offices to satisfy their own egos that need to take a long walk into the sea.
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Sep 14, 2023 04:39
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Also, as being active military, I don't want military bullshit to enter my home. I will drive 45 minutes to sign a performance report rather than do it at home in 4 minutes. My home is my sanctuary away from the bullshit of work.
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Sep 14, 2023 05:07
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Handsome Ralph posted:My previous job was FT WFH after the pandemic hit, which was funny considering the whole "No more FT WFH!" saga that happened about a year before the pandemic. I mean really it's like any other job — good managers/expectations typically make for good jobs, lovely managers/expectations make for lovely jobs, whether you're in an office or in person.
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Sep 14, 2023 05:23
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Jimmy Smuts posted:Also, as being active military, I don't want military bullshit to enter my home. I will drive 45 minutes to sign a performance report rather than do it at home in 4 minutes. My home is my sanctuary away from the bullshit of work. Same, while I am not in the military I like the separation between "at work" and "not at work". When you close your laptop and pack it away that's you done for the day and work begins again next morning.
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Sep 14, 2023 08:48
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Remote work should have been encouraged even before covid. It's all part of my war against
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Sep 14, 2023 11:14
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I'm betting the oil and car industry were making GBS threads their pants about the loss of the whole commuter class and spent a few million on propaganda pieces like social media campaigns
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Sep 14, 2023 11:22
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Zamujasa posted:Offices aren't entirely terrible, but open offices are something that should get you thrown out a ten story window. I’m in the process of getting our new office set up that’s completely “open” office except for the C*O suite. Even HR is right there in the middle surrounded by everyone. To add insult to injury, the CEO is so anti-wfh that the thought of giving people a week of WFH while we move everything is unacceptable, so we are having to contract laborers to come in and help set up desks over the weekend. It’s an entire office move, so we have to wait until that Friday to even start packing anything.
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Sep 14, 2023 11:53
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I think that's a situation where I would be looking for another job immediately. As said earlier, I'm just incompatable with work where I'm stuck at a desk all day and work from home has made it tolerable. Even when I was running a lab I could barely stand it and got deeply restless. A part of it for me is that I just don't think I like the kind of people that solely inhabit offices or I can't work with them. I've spent too much time on the shop floor or on a ship, or with other military personnel where I have expectations of personality and behavior.
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Sep 14, 2023 12:04
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I'm a loving stagehand at 38 because life is going great and I hate offices especially ones where I had to work in an open office in front of a sliding glass door. Yes my monitor and my back faced the loving glass doors of course why would I need to see who just star trek doored in behind me or any privacy?
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Sep 14, 2023 12:08
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It's been fun watching how wfh has changed our university system. The Uni is split into several colleges, and within each colleges are departments. At the College level the Dean runs the show and sets the policies (including wfh). There are a few vice-deans and then the rest of "administration" cover things like student services, research administration, finances etc. Mostly a lot of accountants and related support staff and a few secretaries. For 6 years we've had very competent staff that managed things quite well with almost zero turnover at all. After covid in the last 2 years our own Dean has enforced a strict "back to the office" policy. However this has only seemingly been applied to the administration, the vice deans and the dean themselves often take meetings via zoom and are remote for >50% of the work week. A little more than a year ago our best two admins left for other jobs. Both of the jobs were just at other colleges within the same university, but they were able to get a raise as well and got substantial guaranteed wfh. I talked to both of them and they both said "when I was working in the office at on the day before Thanksgiving because I was told I had to, and I look across the hall and all of the deans never came in, I spent the afternoon applying for other jobs". I honestly never need to see these people in person, telephone or zoom meetings make no difference in how we work with each other for what they do. Since they have left a few others did also, basically we are now stuck with the terminal edge of retirement workers, or the people who were so bad at their jobs that they haven't had luck finding something else. The replacement's we have had have been awful, and in the past year we've had 4 people join and quit (for one position), some within <4 weeks. It's not the only reason I am leaving this school, but its a major reason. Our ability to do basic tasks and logistics has gone from a multi year stable process into a poo poo show with things that used to take an afternoon now taking upwards of 2 weeks and a ton of effort to finish. They have also pushed much of the former administrative tasks onto us to do which leads to further mistakes etc (I am not an accountant). From talking with friends in non-academic jobs there's a similar refrain, and it's bad management every time. Basically everyone I know who has left a pretty good paying job in the past few years is doing so directly because of management incompetence / inflexibility. e: of note for this forum, my Dean's also a retired officer That Works fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 12:10
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My VP's been starting to make noises about being in the office more, but I don't see that happening. The whole business unit went whole hog on remote work for anyone that didn't need to be in a lab or on a factory floor; they've been hiring with no respect to geography for years now. My team is spread across all four mainland US time zones, no one is coming into the office for a meeting without air travel being involved.
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Sep 14, 2023 13:53
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Jarmak posted:My VP's been starting to make noises about being in the office more, but I don't see that happening. The whole business unit went whole hog on remote work for anyone that didn't need to be in a lab or on a factory floor; they've been hiring with no respect to geography for years now. My buddy who works at a very large financial company high up in IT got forced to have his team (also spread across 4 time zones) “come in to the office” for meetings meaning that everyone not in the northeast had to travel to a local branch office and sit in a conference room alone on zoom… Galaxy brain poo poo
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Sep 14, 2023 13:58
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That Works posted:My buddy who works at a very large financial company high up in IT got forced to have his team (also spread across 4 time zones) “come in to the office” for meetings meaning that everyone not in the northeast had to travel to a local branch office and sit in a conference room alone on zoom… Our CIO is currently on a warpath about remote work (despite the fact that we just opened a remote office in another country in Europe that has a mandated 1 day a week only in office policy) and is personally going around counting heads. Peak Micromanagement poo poo. They are also building an open office section on our first floor. Dude is just paranoid because the board of directors is realizing they hired the worst CIO and he can't deliver poo poo.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:01
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Any concession made to labor is a weakness that must be destroyed
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Sep 14, 2023 14:03
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The anecdotes here are why I’ve taken a hard line stance on the subject re: management preference because paired with that and the conversations I hear and am a part of, conveniently higher management can never produce data on what, exactly, is improved by forcing people on-site. Organizational problems where standards and expectations aren’t set and communicated will of course be exacerbated. The solution here isn’t to bring people back in, but instead to make those expectations clear and adhere to standards. I also think it can be tested (and has been): if I leave the decision to employees, what will they choose? I’d feel a lot different about this if all of these conversations weren’t ultimately tainted by either an undercurrent or explicit note of managers who don’t actually know what their employees jobs entail using that as a supposition that they’re generically not doing “enough” and generically need to do “more” where neither of those things can ever be defined for “reasons”.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:08
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That Works posted:My buddy who works at a very large financial company high up in IT got forced to have his team (also spread across 4 time zones) “come in to the office” for meetings meaning that everyone not in the northeast had to travel to a local branch office and sit in a conference room alone on zoom… My last team was 80% NE based so we were having occasional "off-sites" (don't get me started), but those not within a couple hours drive just logged in from home. Then we had one big meeting which they actually paid to fly everyone in for. I went 90% remote at the end of 2020 when things started surging again, and then started my next role full WFH. I loving hated it at first because I always felt left out and not knowing what was going on, hated communicating without being able to read other's body language, and just a general plethora of things my anxiety loved to latch on to when I by myself every day. Then I adjusted and I could never go back to being in the office full time. Sometimes I look at things like vet appoints, dropping the kids at school, etc, and think how the gently caress did I ever even manage do get those things done?. Now if I tell my boss I need to pop out for an hour to pick up the kid she reacts like I'm the guy from the Shawshank redemption asking permission to take a piss.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:27
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Im in a weird spot because i manage a lab and train grad students. The work has to be done on site in a lab, no way around it. Other than the times i do hands on training though (1-2x a week) everything else i do can be fully remote. I end up coming in far more than not mostly because it feels lovely to get onto trainees for not spending time in the lab when im not there at all. The parts they dont see though are when im up at 5am working because thats when no ones gonna bug me.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:33
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Periodic reminder that no matter your feelings on the ethics and legality of classification, some people in this forum need a clearance to keep their job so DO NOT POST LEAKED CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS, LINKS TO CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS OR SCREENSHOTS OF CLASSIFIED poo poo. Thank you.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:37
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War Thunder again? I bet it's War Thunder.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:41
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War Thunder and Jack the Leaker’s back in the news. There’s always some loving edge lord who wants to post the screenshot to make some stupid loving CSPAM bullshit point.
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Sep 14, 2023 14:44
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That Works posted:Any concession made to labor is a weakness that must be destroyed this feels like most of it
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Sep 14, 2023 15:11
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 I sometimes make a point of reading leaked classified poo poo. Im curious if they leaked collateral or SAP/SAR or if the F-117 program had been collateralized. Ironically while there’s administrative differences there, legally as far as leaks go it’s the classified or not that matters, not as much the compartment or program. Obviously that can be taken into account by the judge at sentencing but it’s not something that changes charges or anything as best as I can tell. War thunder man, goddamn. I feel like there is no way the entirety of DOD CI and FBI CI doesn’t occasionally give it a check 
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