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Antivehicular posted:Has XP loss/debt on death in grindy multiplayer games ever been implemented well or added to the experience at all? I can't think of a single time it hasn't just been a pointless bringdown. It did a fantastic job of making me never want to play again. So I think that counts for something.
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Sep 14, 2023 22:57
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| # ? May 24, 2024 01:57 |
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FFXIV 1.0 was fundamentally a different game. It was deliberately slower and more grindy without much of a plot, and doing anything was way more involved. Gathering was this mini game of “hit the sweet spot!” (Go to the bottom floor of the Golden Saucer to try them out), something that wouldn’t be bad in a pure foraging/crafting game but was very annoying when you were just trying to get some logs to make a shield or whatever. The crafting itself was way more complex too. Everything was. The current jobs system didn’t exist. Mounts did not exist. Jumping did not exist, and the devs were confused why anyone would want that. Also it ran like crap and did so many things serverside that it is effectively impossible to recreate on private servers. There are compilations of the cutscenes online and it’s kinda neat if you want some lore but it’s also hella disjointed, and a lot of it was only put in after YoshiP was put in charge. Like I believe he spent one patch trying to improve the game as it was, then immediately turned around and said “the only way to fix this is to completely rebuild everything”. And things were desperate enough that SE agreed.
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Sep 14, 2023 22:58
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I kind of have fond memories of waiting at the entrance of Valkrum Dunes for 4h spamming LFG THF 17 interrupted by someone running to the city with a horde of crabs on his heels, finally finding a group, wiping after half a level and log off for the day. Or finally getting level 18 (?) so I could change my gear, die, get a level down and stripped from my new stuff. Nowadays barely anyone would tolerate this (me first), but it was kinda funny at that time. Having to do Valkrum twice for my subjob killed any desire to continue though, I think I got to 20, reached Jeuno (?) with the help of friends, told myself "ok, tomorrow for realsies" and my character is probably still parked there.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:00
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They were already committed to a couple of patches at that point so they tweaked the story to be totally apocalyptic instead of sorta and that's meteor.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:02
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The only 1.0 but that sounds remotely interesting is that Urianger apparently met Hildibrand in a cutscene.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:06
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My fondest FFXI memory was selling Promyvion runs. Lots of folks didn't want to bother learning how to aggrododge but also didn't want to learn how to kill things so my linkshell learned the map, learned what sight aggroed and sound aggroed and such, and would guide groups through there.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:07
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The official strategy guide for WoW made mention of XP loss on death, but I don't think that ever made it to the initial retail release.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:07
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Oh good Promyvion,I hated that place. If you fought any mobs you wouldn't have time to take out the boss. So yeah aggro dodging was the only way through.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:10
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Bloody Pom posted:The official strategy guide for WoW made mention of XP loss on death, but I don't think that ever made it to the initial retail release. It did not, it was in beta though.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:10
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Funky Valentine posted:The only 1.0 but that sounds remotely interesting is that Urianger apparently met Hildibrand in a cutscene. Apparently 1.0 Urianger was like a cryptic woods hermit who sicced raptors on people? I kind of want to know more about him.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:13
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Kwyndig posted:Oh good Promyvion,I hated that place. If you fought any mobs you wouldn't have time to take out the boss. So yeah aggro dodging was the only way through. I love how you needed a properly-balanced group of 6 for the boss, then team up with two other groups to get to it, then figure out how to break back apart without accidentally clicking the wrong person.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:14
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That Little Demon posted:one thing that annoys me is if an NPC has multiple things (triple triad, 2 quests, ect) it only shows the low level quest. I found this long in depth quest chain randomly looking at a low level quest NPC and now I'm involved in the Ishgard hogwarts affairs and it actually involves Briarden who I like and had no idea this quest chain existed if I wouldn't have found it randomly. Pretty annoying Can't believe the amount of stick you got for this quite reasonable point. Fortunately it's not an issue that is super common.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:17
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Runa posted:my favorite failson dipshit elf kid I had to mentally scroll through a list here. ... okay, it's a short list, but my own favorite failson dipshit elf kid is probably Emmanellain.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:28
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Mainwaring posted:Can't believe the amount of stick you got for this quite reasonable point. You can’t? It’s been the entire journey for me for whatever reason lol. People are so defensive about games they like
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Sep 14, 2023 23:39
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That Little Demon posted:You can’t? It’s been the entire journey for me for whatever reason lol. People are so defensive about games they like this one in particular surprised me because I could not imagine anyone defending that design choice or getting mad at someone for not completely cleaning the maps of sidequest, something that 95% of the players don't do
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Sep 14, 2023 23:55
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That Little Demon posted:You can’t? It’s been the entire journey for me for whatever reason lol. People are so defensive about games they like I think he's talking about long quest lines hidden behind a regular old side quest, not grief over your opinions.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:58
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There does seem to be a tendency of long-time players of this game to treat any criticism of the game's flaws as a personal insult.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:06
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Y'all didn't mention 1.0's fatigue system that made you get less experience the more you played. The original game was built so you'd get punished if you played too much.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:12
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Mr. Nice! posted:Y'all didn't mention 1.0's fatigue system that made you get less experience the more you played. The original game was built so you'd get punished if you played too much. Almost certainly to hide the lack of content and force levelling to take longer.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:15
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Oh yes fatigue systems were quite common in old MMOs. WoW had it, FFXIV had it, I think EverQuest had it.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:19
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Kwyndig posted:Oh yes fatigue systems were quite common in old MMOs. WoW had it, FFXIV had it, I think EverQuest had it. Lmao I had somehow memory holed WoW's fatigue system. Glad they killed it pretty early on.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:24
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If anyone has time and interest in how 1.0 went horribly wrong and what went into saving the game noclip's documentary on ffxiv 1.0 is a good watch. Footage of the game and interviews with the people who worked on both 1.0 and arr.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:24
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FFXIV still has fatigue. They just call it an exp bonus until you run out, instead of calling it a penalty afterwards.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:26
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But it doesn't go below half, which is what distinguishes it from a traditional penalty system. You lose the bonus, you suffer a penalty.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:35
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:FFXIV still has fatigue. They just call it an exp bonus until you run out, instead of calling it a penalty afterwards. Yup, WoW did this first. At some point early (not sure when, I've never seriously touched the game) they had a fatigue system, but ended up rebranding it to a well-rested bonus without changing the underlying math after player complaints. Honestly I'm in favor of it, gives an incentive to stop playing at some point and do something else.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:36
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Yeah, as an incentive to log out, the rested bonus works great. You can play a good two, three hours before you run out and it'll recharge most of the way overnight.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:43
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Sunday Morning posted:If anyone has time and interest in how 1.0 went horribly wrong and what went into saving the game noclip's documentary on ffxiv 1.0 is a good watch. Footage of the game and interviews with the people who worked on both 1.0 and arr. And if don't have time to watch a whole documentary but do have 8.5 minutes, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWIrju3F6nU
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Sep 15, 2023 01:06
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Interviewer: “Have you ever thought about doing a 1.0 Revival server?” Yoshi-P, in English: “Nightmare!”
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Sep 15, 2023 01:50
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This is a great doc
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Sep 15, 2023 02:03
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girl dick energy posted:Interviewer: “Have you ever thought about doing a 1.0 Revival server?” the funniest part is the fact that he knows enough english to recognise the question before it's translated and he just breaks down laughing
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Sep 15, 2023 02:20
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Kwyndig posted:Oh yes fatigue systems were quite common in old MMOs. WoW had it, FFXIV had it, I think EverQuest had it. Fears about videogame addiction go back to the early eighties at least. I'm now curious as to who kicked off fatigue systems themselves as a 'trend'; couldn't find anything in less than an hour of research, though.
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Sep 15, 2023 02:32
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That Little Demon posted:This is a great doc I hope you like seeing the dev team give their interviews, one of the things that has kept me playing this godforsaken anime bullshit game is the charms of the team behind it. I don't remember everyone who shows up in that doc off the top of my head - yoship and soken and foxclon and koji, maybe aimi tokutake, but as I recall it's missing some of the crew that has only become more public-facing more recently, natsuko ishikawa and kate cwynar in particular. it is interesting to me that so much of the team has a language barrier and yet they're more in touch with their playerbase regardless of nationality as compared to, like, ion hazzikostas
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Sep 15, 2023 03:18
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SirSamVimes posted:the funniest part is the fact that he knows enough english to recognise the question before it's translated and he just breaks down laughing Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's fluent, he just sticks to Japanese with the occasional English answer for fun.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:22
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Don't underestimate how bad SE was doing when 1.0 came out. FFXIV 1.0 being as bad as it was might legitimately have led to the company actually sinking. Hell, FFXIV from ARR onwards is basically the thing keeping SE afloat after multiple failed GaaS releases, extremely well-known major flops, and a few modest successes being drowned out by the rest. So not only did they suspect that FFXIV 1.0 would lead to the end of the company, by extrapolating what happened and how SE would look like without a reliable cash cow to fund everything else they've been doing we can actually see why and how in real time.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:34
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Don't forget The Quiet Man, Balan Wonderworld, Left Alive, Babylon's Fall, FF7 First Soldier...
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Sep 15, 2023 03:37
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The Quiet Man, noted for having an incomprehensible story because the main character is deaf and nobody accommodates for his disability, not even the game, all you hear are rough buzzes when people talk or hit you.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:59
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Kwyndig posted:The Quiet Man, noted for having an incomprehensible story because the main character is deaf and nobody accommodates for his disability, not even the game, all you hear are rough buzzes when people talk or hit you. Unless you do a new game plus (or a DLC I forget) where they put the audio back and you find out that the plot is just...bad.
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Sep 15, 2023 04:02
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Kwyndig posted:The Quiet Man, noted for having an incomprehensible story because the main character is deaf and nobody accommodates for his disability, not even the game, all you hear are rough buzzes when people talk or hit you. Mom's dead, parkour.
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Sep 15, 2023 04:02
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Neo_Crimson posted:Unless you do a new game plus (or a DLC I forget) where they put the audio back and you find out that the plot is just...bad. It was a new game plus DLC. The director didn't want his vision of a game where you don't understand what's going on tainted in the first playthrough.
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Sep 15, 2023 04:03
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The actor playing Taye was genuinely wasted on that garbage
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Sep 15, 2023 04:08
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