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Charles Ingalls
Jan 31, 2021

BlankSystemDaemon posted:


Yes, there are exceptions where surgery first is not the best option.
However, even in those cases where some form of therapy like chemo- or radiation-therapy are used first, surgery is still usually part of the whole deal.

Not always, surgery has no place in the curative treatment of locally advanced cervical cancer for instance.

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BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009




Charles Ingalls posted:

Not always, surgery has no place in the curative treatment of locally advanced cervical cancer for instance.
Huh, that's interesting, I didn't know that - I would've thought it'd be fairly similar to another type of cancer that comes from HPV.
In 2016 I got diagnosed with aggressive HPV-related stage 3a penile cancer (which had spread to the sentinel lymph node), and the therapies involved both surgery, as well as IMRT (2 Gray every session for 30 weekdays) and concomitant cisplatin (10mg mixed in 3.5L of fluid once every week for 6 weeks).

The exceptions I was thinking of were along the lines of where a cancer has grown around/into bones, or things of that nature - but you're right, there's way more exceptions than that.

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 11, 2023

Charles Ingalls
Jan 31, 2021

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Huh, that's interesting, I didn't know that
In 2016 I got diagnosed with aggressive HPV-related stage 3a penile cancer (which had spread to the sentinel lymph node), and the therapies involved both surgery, as well as IMRT (2 Gray every time for 30 weekdays) and concomitant cisplatin (10mg mixed in 3.5L of fluid every week).

Locally advanced cervical cancer is somewhat similarly treated with 40-45 Gy EBRT (IMRT or VMAT) concomitant with weekly cisplatin followed by brachytherapy (highly radioactive iridium seeds placed in and around the cervix), but no surgery.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009




Charles Ingalls posted:

Locally advanced cervical cancer is somewhat similarly treated with 40-45 Gy EBRT (IMRT or VMAT) concomitant with weekly cisplatin followed by brachytherapy (highly radioactive iridium seeds placed in and around the cervix), but no surgery.
There must be a reason for the difference, but right now it escapes me.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

ulvir posted:

if Høyre becomes/stays the largest party and gets the majority rule in Akershus as well, which seems likely, the public transport around here is going to get properly hosed over the next four years

probably, but i doubt that this is what people are voting for. a big thing for the modern norwegian right has been framing welfare state stuff as effectively a consumer relationship (i.e. running on "we will displace costs over on the workers in these sectors" which tends to work OK in the short term), and if a core service such as public transportation starts obviously suffering i think it's going to hurt them.

TLM3101
Sep 8, 2010



V. Illych L. posted:

local elections are not looking enormously promising. looks like the broader bourgeois side is going to win a fair amount of cities and towns

Yeah, Høyre actually leapt ahead massively here. We did a decent showing despite it all. Didn't get in, but I didn't really expect to, and we did better than several close and neighboring municipalities.

I think the reason this happened is a combination of things, but if I were to guess a whole lot of it is, genuinely, down to basically this:

Wibla posted:

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone... Local elections are at least in part a trial run for the big one two years down the line and the current government has basically made it a sport to step on rakes, so :shrug:

Not helped by the fact that national politicians and the national press are desperate to insert themselves into the local elections and make them exactly the kind of referendum on national politics that local elections shouldn't be. Ah well. I have four years to sit on the outside and lob rocks at the bastards.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




So Anne Lindboe have made gaffe after gaffe (like straight up dismissing anyone without education) and Eirik Lae Solberg was caught lying to people while campaigning in mosques. And yet they won?

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014

Everything went more or less as predicted

Wibla
Feb 16, 2011

TLM3101 posted:

Not helped by the fact that national politicians and the national press are desperate to insert themselves into the local elections and make them exactly the kind of referendum on national politics that local elections shouldn't be. Ah well. I have four years to sit on the outside and lob rocks at the bastards.

Yeah, it's annoying as hell. Ap and Sp showing their whole rear end since winning the national election doesn't help either.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Alhazred posted:

So Anne Lindboe have made gaffe after gaffe (like straight up dismissing anyone without education) and Eirik Lae Solberg was caught lying to people while campaigning in mosques. And yet they won?


they underperformed a lot of the initial polling, but they had a massive lead going into the election and the conservatives are much more in tune with the "common sense" of the era - and have much better PR people - than anyone else

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

they also have a much larger funding and financial backing than anyone else, including labour

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

i don't have the numbers in front of me, but labour has traditionally had more money directly than the conservatives while the conservatives have traditionally had some weird slush funds helping them out and taking ads. i would hesitate to say that the discrepancy explains this election result, though.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Welp, guess us Oslo folks are going back to not getting out garbage picked up and poo poo.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

BonHair posted:

Yeah, I really have to stop that thing about cancer treatments, I should know I'm probably wrong. The main part of the argument that I actually remember is that cancer is super common, meaning everyone is affected by it either personally or by relations, which means that it has traditionally been an important political priority, regardless of how effective the actual treatment is. And that is, to my mind, politicians making medical priorities, which should be left to people who can figure out the best way to use limited resources (I'm actually kinda pro economists here).
But politicians are a representative of popular will so it make sense that they should have a say on priority too. Otherwise we might just go full on technocracy and force people to exercise instead of taking most drug because that is statistically a better option than pills for the patients health.

BonHair posted:

Obviously, especially with early treatment and diagnosing, cancer treatment is probably good in a lot of cases.
And also obviously, it shouldn't really be a matter of deciding who gets to live and die based on the budget. Besides the obvious solution of budgeting to fit the need instead of budgeting to cut taxes, a lot of good could probably come from public pharma research at the universities instead of having to rely on our pals at Novo and friends.

Public pharma research at universities are very rarely directly applicable drugs while at the university research group level, it is mostly proof of concept stuff regarding treatment. If the ideas and supporting data is solid the route in 99% of cases are to start a company and take in external financing to further refine the concept to a workable product. From this point the small company either tries to launch the product themselves or they get bought up by a larger corporate entity which tries to launch it or further refine it.

This is because the researchers at universities is most often highly specialized in their field of knowledge and it simply takes other competences to develop something to a final workable drug; such as regulatory compliance, manufacturing optimization and patient trials. All of which are expensive and require a larger organization to coordinate and pay for. So unless you also move these competences and costs into mostly public institutions your public pharma research is going to need Novo Nordisk and friends.
So yes full communism now could possibly solve that problem of drug costs being a major factor, but until then this is what we have. Modern biologicals would however still be relatively expensive in this scenario as the manufacturing process is much more expensive than for traditional drugs due to relying on living cells for the production.

Cynic Jester
Apr 11, 2009

Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky
AP here went up to 35% but they're teaming up with Høyre anyway, so it doesn't matter.

F4rt5
May 20, 2006

Yeah these national numbers are depressing as all hell. Four right-wing parties at the top (don't tell me Ap isn't more right than left these days). Only thing worse would be INP together with them, based on my interactions with INP people when they had a one-page website and no real program. They were all uninformed smoothbrains.

You just know Støre voted H with that boomer "it's a secret election" comment. No "of course I vote for the party I lead, what do you think" -- just that old cliché and a wink.

Over here in the vacation resort for bougie Bærumites (Tønsberg / Færder), the paper has been all "who will be the best candidate for mayor in Tbg?" and just list the two Pedersens (H, Ap) like it's the only choice. That rag is so worthless.

Mordekai
Sep 6, 2006

Salt in the wound eases the soul.

thotsky posted:

Welp, guess us Oslo folks are going back to not getting out garbage picked up and poo poo.

Lets just hope it doesn't become that different. I'm sure the new city council has some good people that means well.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




V. Illych L. posted:

- and have much better PR people - than anyone else

Where was they during this election?

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




I guess it's a small comfort that Gaute Grøtta Grav got utterly crushed.

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

F4rt5 posted:

You just know Støre voted H with that boomer "it's a secret election" comment. No "of course I vote for the party I lead, what do you think" -- just that old cliché and a wink.

no need to spiral into a conspiracy theory just because Støre is a frigid parliamentarian. and he is factually correct, it’s neither a cliche nor a dog-whistle

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

i think that the prime minister voted for his own party, personally

F4rt5
May 20, 2006

ulvir posted:

no need to spiral into a conspiracy theory just because Støre is a frigid parliamentarian. and he is factually correct, it’s neither a cliche nor a dog-whistle

Yeah of course, is one half-joke thought like that all it takes for something to be branded a conspiracy theory these days? OK. It was meant more as a reaction to that tired old saying. I’m not that far gone lol

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
gently caress Støre and his loving government, but also gently caress local elections and the staggering lack of awareness/care gen pop has for the issues that matter and affect directly where they live.

Get used to being ruled by business owners and realestate developers, pay pigs! That neat shortcut? Sorry, costs money, gotta be fiscally responsible. Developers paying their fair share? Nope, it would disincentivize development to achieve less than maximal profit, can't have that oh loss of public land, goods, sub-par infrastructure, pollution? Lol that's the future 's problem. Who needs universal access playgrounds lmao DISPENSATION oh sorry no we don't have the money to fully staff public services that would be irresponsible. But they seem to be doing fine no matter the conditions we impose so yay! This can is great, we should kick it down the road as much as we can.

But I'm not bitter or anything.

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

F4rt5 posted:

Yeah of course, is one half-joke thought like that all it takes for something to be branded a conspiracy theory these days? OK. It was meant more as a reaction to that tired old saying. I’m not that far gone lol

sorry, my joke-radar is kind of broken these days, didn’t mean to come off as that snappy

F4rt5
May 20, 2006

ulvir posted:

sorry, my joke-radar is kind of broken these days, didn’t mean to come off as that snappy

No worries, I had a bad day and had an angry tone too

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

lol Bergen

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

ulvir posted:

lol Bergen

i love my city

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

this current trend of people aged 80+ getting (re-) involved in politics and getting positions in city councils needs to stop before we turn into a gerontocracy. kindly gently caress off and let someone who aren’t at a considerable risk of dying or going senile within the next couple of years handle it.

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

and yes, that includes Brundtland

lilljonas
May 6, 2007

We got crabs? We got crabs!

ulvir posted:

this current trend of people aged 80+ getting (re-) involved in politics and getting positions in city councils needs to stop before we turn into a gerontocracy. kindly gently caress off and let someone who aren’t at a considerable risk of dying or going senile within the next couple of years handle it.

Gaze into the future and despair. For real, the aging population will just break politics more and more, as oldies keep voting for policy that fucks over young people. Given the demographics of *checks notes* every developed country, it can only get worse.

Leave
Feb 7, 2012

Taking the term "Koopaling" to a whole new level since 2016.
Edit: got my answer, removing the text

Leave fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Sep 14, 2023

zokie
Feb 13, 2006

Out of many, Sweden
Short of it is that the person has to low oxygen levels

Leave
Feb 7, 2012

Taking the term "Koopaling" to a whole new level since 2016.
Thank you. It's not great news, but it's something

Beeswax
Dec 29, 2005

Grimey Drawer

Leave posted:

A friend of mine has a friend in Sweden who is in some kind of hospital-related situation; his friend's husband, who doesn't speak English, is trying to update him.

Can someone translate this?



"Hi, I wanted to give you an update earlier but I slept for a bit when I got home

Things just were not improving, and his oxygen levels got too low when he exerted himself. I did not like it getting that low for long periods. I [admitted him/brought him in] around 6 this morning."

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

lilljonas posted:

Gaze into the future and despair. For real, the aging population will just break politics more and more, as oldies keep voting for policy that fucks over young people. Given the demographics of *checks notes* every developed country, it can only get worse.

Save us Corona-chan, you're our only hope!

E: I realize now given the above exchange that this post may be interpreted to be in bad taste. This was not my intention, but I am also a terrible person and poster so I guess this is just par for the course.

Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Sep 14, 2023

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

norwegian elected officials trend very heavily middle-aged, with the mean age of parliamentarians being 45 and trending slightly down. there aren't that many seriously old people involved in norwegian politics on the national level compared to how many old people we have in the country - the oldest person in parliament currently is carl i. hagen, who's pushing 80 halfway through his term. locally you get some octogenarians sometimes, but i suspect that they're still underrepresented compared to their portion of the population. for the most part, our elders are pretty good at getting out of their seats before they get too obviously degraded.

torstein dahle is coming back because his pet issue has gained more salience than anyone planned, and brundtland presumably agreed to be on the ticket to boost oslo ap at a crucial election. it could become a problem, but imo it's not really an issue yet. if anything i think that the opposite trend, where people in their twenties and early-mid thirties are getting very senior positions (like mayor of bergen or minister of justice in the kingdom - or prime minister of finland) is more concerning - it speaks to these positions no longer being seen as the summit of a career, but a step on the way to a think tank, lobby group or international organisation.

TLM3101
Sep 8, 2010



Høire gonna Høire. Lol.

https://www.nrk.no/norge/erna-moter-pressa-om-aksjehandelen-til-sindre-finnes-1.16558663

This makes Moxnes' little escapade look charmingly quaint in comparison.

vv: I know, right? What a mystery!

TLM3101 fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Sep 15, 2023

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

also considerably worse than with Huitfeldt’s husband

also very convenient that this gets released just after the election, while the other case was during :thunk:

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

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Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010


:catstare:

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