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Instead of trying an AngelBob embark I picked up a K2/SpaceEx game which I had stopped playing right before I was ready to head up to the space platform for the first time. Whoever said that the new main way to get materials into space was now the space elevator eat me, it's gated behind space-platform production, astronomic, utility, and energy pack 1s as well as material pack 2s. I'm going to need more nuclear power than I've ever built for myself to run enough railguns to let me comfortably make all of this, so that I can then start shipping trainloads of poo poo up the beanstalk.
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Sep 12, 2023 22:41
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| # ? May 12, 2024 07:51 |
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LonsomeSon posted:Instead of trying an AngelBob embark I picked up a K2/SpaceEx game which I had stopped playing right before I was ready to head up to the space platform for the first time. Did someone say that? The space elevator is really late game as far as I know. Railguns seem okay for shipping small amounts of stuff, and they're nice in that you can control them remotely, but from what I saw the real workhorse of interplanetary transport was cargo rockets. But yeah, you definitely want nuclear power ASAP in Space Exploration. Both because you'll have a massive power demand and because the fuel is very compact and easy to transport around.
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Sep 12, 2023 22:52
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Yeah the first time I did this, I had a nuclear plant half the size of the one I'm about to lay out and turned Nauvis into an enormous, insanely fortified smelting plant and oil refinery with a few hundred railguns sending plates and barreled fluids up into orbit, where I had mall arrangements for space and ground as well as an increasingly-deranged, nested set of science setups. I never built a ship, but I had outposts on I think three other surfaces, all linked together by delivery cannons controlled by transmitted circuit logic. Basically it was a choice between expending an incredible amount of generator fuel and building everything in space, or expending a large amount of construction materials to run rockets with cargo capacities that are too loving enormous to easily use mixed, except by feeding them incredibly slowly via logic-controlled inserters. Give me a choice in factorio between paying for something in electricity or something else, and I'm almost always going to pick electricity. e: I am packing cargo rockets with all three flavors of chips as well as every available science pack, plus inserters, solar panels, and anything else which can be used in space but made on land, but I've yet to launch with a completely full cargo inventory no matter how long it has been between trips upstairs. LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Sep 12, 2023 |
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Sep 12, 2023 23:23
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Railguns are low cost/low power, just have some accumulators. They are just peaky power consumers.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:12
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M_Gargantua posted:Railguns are low cost/low power, just have some accumulators. They are just peaky power consumers. The power requirements aren't that bad, but the need to provide them with projectiles (why do I need explosives for a railgun?) means it's not just power. Since I'd need to either be shipping the projectiles in or setting up production on site it didn't seem that much harder to just set up cargo rockets, which have massive cargo holds. I still used railguns for relatively low bandwidth, single resource stuff like ice to planets without water.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:19
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Yeah, but if you're railgunning ingots/vulcanite/cryonite etc then a single railgun delivers a huge amount of mid game resources until you get massive cargo rocket flow. Have a cargo rocket doing deliveries to planets, and railguns returning processed resources.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:22
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LonsomeSon posted:Basically it was a choice between expending an incredible amount of generator fuel and building everything in space, or expending a large amount of construction materials to run rockets with cargo capacities that are too loving enormous to easily use mixed, except by feeding them incredibly slowly via logic-controlled inserters. Give me a choice in factorio between paying for something in electricity or something else, and I'm almost always going to pick electricity. When we unlocked delivery cannons I tried setting them up for every resource and immediately drained all the power from our base, that kinda scared me off them and I never bothered going back to them once we unlocked kovarex and expanded our nuclear plant. We do use them for small amounts of stuff like getting nuclear fuel and vulcanite to all the places that need it.
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Sep 13, 2023 00:48
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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The vast majority of all my power consumption on Nauvis right now is the delivery cannons, and I've only got 19 going right now. I finally, after all these years, worked out how to put together a latch circuit, and combined with a tank battery in the power plant I've got on-demand nuclear which kicks on at 50% accumulators and back off at 90%. So far I think I've burned 8 fuel rods. Steam is still set to come on at 30% with no hysteresis protection but I don't think I'll ever use those 180 MW again Personally I assumed that Explosives for the delivery capsules represent a one-time braking thruster, to kick the payload into its final descent path. As for some custom logic to load only what's needed into a rocket, pass. I got this far not sketching out ladder logic, I'm not about to start that poo poo unless someone's paying me for it. There's plenty of uranium in the ground outside the perimeter, and I've got a feeling the Biters won't be able to do anything about it when I come out to tap into a fresh patch. Not to mention, I've picked my first expansion world to get Vulcanite, it's got plenty of Uranium itself and no Biters. Shooting ice down onto a no-water planet is a good idea for sure, though, there's also no water there.
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Sep 13, 2023 05:20
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nullEntityRNG posted:Did someone say [Thunderfury, Blessed Power Pole of the Factory Maker]? i forgot about dsp's upgrade juice
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Sep 13, 2023 12:13
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Some neat stuff in this week's FFF:
Of all things, the second one is probably the most impactful to me. They mention it in the post, but one of the issues that change will address is where your research outpaces your factory, and you end up having a lot of recipes/capabilities that you can't even use yet.
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Sep 15, 2023 14:54
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Paper Tiger posted:Some neat stuff in this week's FFF: The Nullius mod does this, and it works really well. It's good to have something like this in the base game, because that means it will probably spread to all the other mod packs as well
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Sep 15, 2023 15:01
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Paper Tiger posted:Some neat stuff in this week's FFF: The way to fix that problem is really really simple: New recipes unlock once you've constructed each of its required ingredients in an assembler/other machine, thereby demonstrating the capacity to automate its production.
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Sep 15, 2023 15:06
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The new intro research seems good and makes a much better tutorial than "here's all the recipes you need to get to science. good luck."
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Sep 15, 2023 15:12
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Buckling up for another nerd discussion fest. The Nullius research gates are semi-controversial because it should be a no duh tutorialization of what you should be doing after a major research milestone, but also if you have restartitis or engorged base syndrome being able to zip through 100 techs while still setting up tech 1-5 starts looking like a feature.
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Sep 15, 2023 15:16
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I'm kind of surprised they didn't just go with having two or more science packs per planet, one using just the basic resources there and their end-stage one for shipping back. Satisfactory already models a perfectly fine solution for science packs that become redundant, by making them part of the recipes for the higher-tier ones. I guess they just didn't want to have you building lab buildings on a planet that you'd eventually outgrow? But even then you could use them for some more localised infinite research or similar. Without knowing what the space tech trees look like I guess there's no knowing which way would be more interesting, whether "hoard 100 titanium widgets" is actually going to be more fun than building a titanium research pack line or what have you.
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Sep 15, 2023 16:18
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I look forward to the strange world-specific obelisks I have to use Inserters to cram tech into, to receive world-specific science in return.
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Sep 15, 2023 17:45
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Tenebrais posted:I'm kind of surprised they didn't just go with having two or more science packs per planet, one using just the basic resources there and their end-stage one for shipping back. Satisfactory already models a perfectly fine solution for science packs that become redundant, by making them part of the recipes for the higher-tier ones. I guess they just didn't want to have you building lab buildings on a planet that you'd eventually outgrow? But even then you could use them for some more localised infinite research or similar. That's exactly how this method works though, except the "science" parts aren't consumed the way they are by the Satisfactory space elevator. You make 200 "Planet 2 science pack" except they're called "Titanium Plate" and you just throw them in a chest to start making the thing they unlock. I do have my concerns about roadblocking but this is Wube, if any developer deserves belief that they will get it right in the end it's them.
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Sep 15, 2023 17:49
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I guess I have to take back what I said about not being able to reach 300% productivity in an assembler without mods. It will definitely be a late-game megabase type thing though. If the rocket control unit example they show scales the same way mining productivity does, it'll take about a month at 1000 SPM to get to level 20 and put maximum productivity and lossless recycling loops within reach. Interestingly, it doesn't show it needing any of the new science packs, so it looks like we'll be able to start on it before leaving Nauvis. We've never had access to any infinite research before the end of the game, so there will be a new dynamic of deciding how far down that path to go before moving on to other regular research.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:00
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zedprime posted:engorged base syndrome Help! I'm trying to get off the planet but my base is so dummy thicc the pollution of my assemblers keeps alerting the monsters.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:12
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It probably just uses the existing packs because either the new ones aren't implemented yet or they don't want to spoil them.
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Sep 15, 2023 22:24
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It may also be the case that you can research X levels of each infinite tech with Nauvis science before you need packs from other planets. I also find it reasonably likely that you no longer get space science directly from doing rocket launches. After all, it sounds like rockets are going to be transports and it would be a bit weird to have to balance your transport needs with your science production needs. Breetai posted:Help! I'm trying to get off the planet but my base is so dummy thicc the pollution of my assemblers keeps alerting the monsters. I wish this could fit in the title. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Sep 15, 2023 |
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Sep 15, 2023 23:24
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Paper Tiger posted:they do mention that they're not 100% attached to the legendary/epic/etc. names for the tiers (lol) doesn't matter, that's what people are going to call them anyway, especially if they keep the colors.
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Sep 16, 2023 00:17
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DontMockMySmock posted:doesn't matter, that's what people are going to call them anyway, especially if they keep the colors. People already talk way more about greens and blues and purples even in the games the colour system came from.
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Sep 16, 2023 00:46
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Those colors are established design language as sure as "red barrels go boom", I can't see that changing.
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Sep 16, 2023 01:21
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What game first used that color scheme anyway?
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Sep 16, 2023 03:21
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WoW definitely popularized it. Not sure if it originated there.
K8.0 fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Sep 16, 2023 |
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Sep 16, 2023 03:39
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Tenebrais posted:People already talk way more about greens and blues and purples even in the games the colour system came from. I’m imagining the multiplayer discussion now. “Yo, you have any blue green circuits?” “Nah, we’re only set up for green green circuits so far.”
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Sep 16, 2023 05:59
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K8.0 posted:WoW definitely popularized it. Not sure if it originated there. If we're specifically talking about the grey->white->green->blue->purple->orange scheme then yeah that was WoW. It's one of the few things that actually originated in that game.
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Sep 16, 2023 06:34
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Mailer posted:If we're specifically talking about the grey->white->green->blue->purple->orange scheme then yeah that was WoW. It's one of the few things that actually originated in that game. Much better than d2 with grey>white>blue>yellow. Sidestep: green and gold
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Sep 16, 2023 06:39
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Arrath posted:Much better than d2 with grey>white>blue>yellow. Sidestep: green and gold For those who are not videogame historians, Arrath is referencing Diablo 2 here. That's the earliest game I personally can remember color-coding rarity/quality but that's hardly authoritative.
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Sep 16, 2023 06:59
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Arrath posted:Much better than d2 with grey>white>blue>yellow. Sidestep: green and gold Teledahn posted:For those who are not videogame historians, Arrath is referencing Diablo 2 here. That's the earliest game I personally can remember color-coding rarity/quality but that's hardly authoritative. Diablo 1 already had at least white>blue>gold. I don't remember if it had any other colors, but it probably started there.
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Sep 16, 2023 07:08
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Tamba posted:Diablo 1 already had at least white>blue>gold. I don't remember if it had any other colors, but it probably started there. Diablo explicitly stole that from Angband David Brevik posted:Angband was a game that I played literally thousands of hours of ... there were different random items that you could get in the game and they had different colors ... if you found a rare one the text wasn't just gray it was blue text and that meant it was like magic ... we expanded on it but originally the idea came from Angband I would not be surprised if some other roguelike did it first, it's always been a joyfully kleptomaniac genre.
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Sep 16, 2023 10:20
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im glad the quality stuff has distinctive icons for each level, because for the life of me i cannot remember how all the colours relate to each other
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Sep 16, 2023 11:13
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Its a good aesthetic with the pips for rarity. And it solves the issue with colour blindness accessibility.
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Sep 16, 2023 14:13
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nrook posted:I’m imagining the multiplayer discussion now. “Yo, you have any blue green circuits?” “Nah, we’re only set up for green green circuits so far.” Can you route the blue greens over to the green reds so we can get more blue reds? Don't take anything from the existing blue red lane.
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Sep 16, 2023 15:45
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Given the lack of stacking and all the complexity issues I'm finding it really hard to find a use case for putting quality modules in anything ammo-related. When you need it you always need it in such quantity that it doesn't seem worth the whole material-loss-recycle-loop to get a smaller quantity of better ammo. I could see maybe filtering off all the normal quality to go to the turrets and keeping the better stacks for your personal ammo but if you're relying on that you've got other problems. Even with like rocket spidertrons you've got nothing else to do with the regular quality rockets so unless you're absolutely swimming in extra explosives I don't see the point at all. Artillery shells might be the one place it doesn't matter either way since they don't stack to begin with. But they insta-kill anything they hit so there's not a lot of point there either, unless they gain a larger blast radius. There's two relatively large solutions I could see happening if this is considered as a problem worth solving: -Some of the ammo types have exactly one use: flamethrower ammo and cannon shells off the top of my head, and probably others. This makes them particularly bad for this because you either need to go through the material loss recycling loop (and also remembering most ammo can't be productivity'd) or just stash tons and tons of lower quality ammo to get the good stuff you want. So giving these additional uses would go a long way to having a point to making them with quality. -There's not enough variety in the enemies to require a variety of damage types, so there's not a lot of point to buffing any individual ammo type. Maybe the other planets will have other types of enemies that would require ammo specialization, but they could also add more variety to the basic biters you start with.
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Sep 16, 2023 16:00
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Ugh, just imagining the extra logistics required to make sure that one out of every five turrets gets fed only Poison and another one out of every five gets only Incendiary rounds grinds my gears.
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Sep 16, 2023 16:06
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Given the icon shows little dots to indicate quality I'll probably just end up refering to it by that. Like, route the 2 dot greens over to the red circuit factory or whatever.
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Sep 16, 2023 16:09
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I can't see putting quality modules in ammo assemblers, but I could see having quality modules on some of the intermediates that feed into them and getting quality ammo that way.
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Sep 16, 2023 16:14
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High quality ammo maybe makes sense in the context of space travel where you'll have limited space for turrets and need to get the most out of each one, and maybe when landing on a new planet and haven't had a chance to get self-sufficient on ammo production.
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Sep 16, 2023 17:07
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