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GateOfD posted:Didn’t factor in cause never used wazy since noel and Rixia much funner to use and better characters. what the cluck
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Sep 17, 2023 15:34
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on Rean's side, I was able to pick who my special someone was (Emma) and the ones I got close bonds with (I picked my students, an Gaius, Laura and maybe one or two others for what you did in CSIII and IV if you lost your save file. Shame, you couldn't do that for Lloyd , since I picked Noel.
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Sep 17, 2023 18:29
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I picked Laura as the special bond and just selected everyone for close bonds, though other than a boost to the link level I don’t know what else the latter effects. Also wondering why Lloyd doesn’t have that option either, but whatever the special bond only has a minuscule effect on the story, which I’m fine with since the game recognizes the romance. I can fill out the rest on my own.
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Sep 17, 2023 18:52
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GateOfD posted:Didn’t factor in cause never used wazy since noel and Rixia much funner to use and better characters. Noel and Rixia are great, no doubt, but better than one of the best casters in the entire series?
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Sep 17, 2023 21:32
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Last Celebration posted:So, what’s everyone’s opinion of Trails From Zero To Azure, in terms of the main narrative? I guess I’m still in the beginning of the Finale (just got Tio back), so normally I’d wait until hitting the end credits to say anything (and I’ll probably have more to say when I get there) but, the fact that I’m at the Finale is kinda why I wanted to ask. I think Zero/Azure (mostly Zero) start off on the wrong foot because the fantasy mafia are really boring and so they must quickly be pushed aside for more interesting antagonists even if that leads to a sudden and kinda strange escalation. I think Azure's better about it though.
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Sep 17, 2023 23:06
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I think Crossbell suffers most from one game split into two-itis. Especially since it's a game they only decided to make during the development of TC, original plan was to jump straight to Erebonia. The fact that Zero doesn't end on a cliffhanger gets mentioned a lot, but the reason it doesn't is that it handles like 10% of Crossbell's main plot. And it wasted a lot of time on the mafia which matters for a single (godly) hour in Azure, and hasnt been mentioned at all all in the rest of the series. The rest of it is entirely (too much) setup for the SSS as a group and the oh so important underdog plot, which both continue in the first 50% of Azure for some reason, but with added scale to keep it mostly fresh. Comparing it directly to 1204 Erebonia and you see a much better plot split, where the first game handles ALL of the setup and doesn't over focus on specific characters, and ends where poo poo hits the fan in Azure and then basically they both have the same game structure. Azure rushes a lot so a lot of plot beats kinda whiff, and some that are necessary just don't exist. Cold Steel 2 does have a bit of bloat though, but I vastly prefer that to blinking going "wait that's it?”Noel's traitor plot or "hold up, where's this characters entire plot?"Elie didn't get a plot, she never talked to Dieter or Mariabell for more than a few seconds and Henry took care of all the politics. Wazy and Wald's plot is immaculate though and made me love Falcom more than I did before. I was dreading that plot all of Azure, Red Oni Blue Oni where only 1 of them is playable, and objectively the playable one is in the wrong? I fully expected them to ignore the facts and push Wazy as the ultimate correct guy, but no, Wazy himself knows it's entirely his super special self's fault for entering Wald's life, and then trying to abandon it, that led to Wald being used like that. And the ending is just immaculate, Both of them jumped straight from A to SSS as characters. Also yes, Crossbell NPC runs are measured in hours, so they very much hurt the pacing compared to every other arcs 30 minute average. I'd definitely argue that it's more flawed than average even without, but I can't personally testify, I've yet to replay a single Trails game without 100%ing it lmao. Just for the record I utterly loved these games to bits. I wouldn't take like 40000 screenshots otherwise.
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Sep 18, 2023 00:37
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man what a good spooky track to appear for the first time when talking about devil drugs that give you super-powers made by a cult https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvRwDH53Qj8
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Sep 18, 2023 01:23
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Yeah, I have to admit I like Revache a lot on a conceptual level (fantasy mafia is just fundamentally a cool idea, especially when their hatchet man is just a punchman) but in retrospect they end up kinda pointless in a way that makes it feel like Falcom felt the same as me (fantasy mafia = cool, also let’s make their capo an ex-jaeger that’s just a brawler) and didn’t think things through much. Like, it’s not even a bad idea to have the mafia loving up the town backed by Erebonia and the eastern mob backed by Calvard having a war with each other that fucks over the common folk, but it’s just something we’re told about and not shown except in Chapter 1 where Revache is basically extorting people with their war hounds, which amounts to a neat request in Azure where the war hounds are actually good boys when left to their own devices, and I guess the prologue which kinda confused me because why doesn’t Garcia just get some jaegers with his connections? You could even write it where the jaegers peace out without the Senator’s financial backing which turns the Revache goons to drugs to keep pace with Heiyue. Speaking of being told and not shown: Ellie’s existence. We’re told early on she’s the diplomatic one, who’s the best at dealing with people but…maybe I’m remembering wrong but I feel like Lloyd just by default takes charge of a lot of conversations. Lloyd being a good detective and affable comes up a lot, as does Tio’s ESP and Randy being battle-hardened and experienced, but Elie…it was cute when she was scared of ghosts? And I guess she likes sweets? Wild Swan is one of the cooler standard crafts in the series? Big baps? And I’m out of noteworthy things that aren’t purely gameplay, because she’s pretty good as a PC to be fair. Maybe they could have written her as also a good detective in a book wise way who bounces ideas off Lloyd and vice versa, I dunno.
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Sep 18, 2023 01:51
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Its so hosed up they made the fantasy mafia boring because that was one of the aspects that sounded most exciting to me about the games, but sometimes that's just how it be.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:05
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kind of impressive the games manages to get away with making you run thru the same crossbell roads and towns 4 times over for each game. i liked the asian mafia better, they had style
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Sep 18, 2023 02:12
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GateOfD posted:i liked the asian mafia better, they had style you're in luck, Heiyue shows up in Kuro.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:24
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Ravache just needed like 5 more portraits and to be more relevant than the Capuas were.... Instead we got a single portrait and a joke. Also that portrait has another much more important affiliation retroactively.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:50
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Junpei posted:you're in luck, Heiyue shows up in Kuro. The one problem is that I don't think Kuro uses the kick-rear end Heiyue track from the Crossbell games much (or at all?).
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Sep 18, 2023 04:25
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What the hell is going on in this thread? Zero's fantasy mafia plot is one of its best parts! Chapter's 2 and 3 own. The cult is the actual boring part, especially with a villain that's just a carbon copy of Weissman, boss form included. Also, people who are deranged enough to do full npc runs after every bit of plot progress should be disqualified from talking about pacing, because like wtf. AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 11:52
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MythosDragon posted:Ravache just needed like 5 more portraits and to be more relevant than the Capuas were.... Instead we got a single portrait and a joke. Also that portrait has another much more important affiliation retroactively. The Revache Don, Garcia and speaker Hartmann all have portaits though? While Heiyue only have Cao. AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 11:55
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:What the hell is going on in this thread? Zero's fantasy mafia plot is one of its best parts! Chapter's 2 and 3 own. The cult is the actual boring part, especially with a villain that's just a carbon copy of Weissman, boss form included. If I was supposed to beeline the story then why do I get my gladiator swag early if I talk to every NPC when the music changes???
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Sep 18, 2023 12:14
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GateOfD posted:Didn’t factor in cause never used wazy since noel and Rixia much funner to use and better characters. I was talking about Azure and his main MQ in Azure, where you literally have to use him. SgtSteel91 posted:I picked Laura as the special bond and just selected everyone for close bonds, though other than a boost to the link level I don’t know what else the latter effects. Lloyd doesn't have that option because Rean doesn't have that option. It's just an illusion from the developers to make it seem like they'll take your choice into account, but they don't, everyone gets the "maybe romance?" dialogue no matter what.
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Sep 18, 2023 12:27
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The cult is also boring but better than Revache if only because there are party members with arcs involving it. Revache are just generic gangsters (with one cool member) whose secret weapon is that they have guard dogs. Very disappointing stuff.
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Sep 18, 2023 12:54
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In gameplay news, man, the lategame stretch of Azure does not gently caress around. Did not expect Generic Jaeger With Pals to be a legitimate challenge, or Goofy Talking Archaism Gundam III to be something I had to step back and make a strategy for.
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Sep 18, 2023 14:08
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In the finale of Reverie and this has been a fun ride, also it took me way too long to realize Lloyd is the most busted of the 3 protags. Burning Heart is a messed up craft
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Sep 18, 2023 14:20
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SyntheticPolygon posted:The cult is also boring but better than Revache if only because there are party members with arcs involving it. Revache are just generic gangsters (with one cool member) whose secret weapon is that they have guard dogs. Very disappointing stuff. Actually, their secret weapon is not their guard dogs. Their real secret weapon is the fact that the Zemurian equivalent of Nancy Pelosi (pre-2022 at least) is a de-facto member of their organisation and can make pretty much any legal problem disappear by leveraging the might of one of the two political parties on whatever law enforcement agency is creating trouble. The only challenge they get is when another organisation rears its head who has the OTHER political party on a string. I'd argue that the real villain in Zero is not the cult or even the generic gangsters. It's Crossbell's political environment, corrupt, rife with heavy foreign interference and grid-locked between the proxies of two continental superpowers who only agree on the need to keep the independent elements in the state down, that's the real bad guy and both the mafia and cult are indirect symptoms of that. Through that perspective, I do feel the mafia angle is an interesting one.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:38
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I feel like Dennis Hastert is the more appropriate politician comparison.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:48
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Yeah, Revache are the antagonists you actively engage with, but the fact that they’re entering a pissing match with Heiyue is basically emblematic of the problem with Crossbell existing to be Erebonia/Calvary’s bitch, which is why those two gangs are even endorsed by their countries to begin with. poo poo was hosed, to the extent that even getting Revache arrested just ended up being a lateral move funnily enough, if it wasn’t for Red Constellation being hired, Heiyue would have literally bought their old headquarters.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:51
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Remember guys, the only way to solve political problems is for the politicians and their cronies to commit unconscionable magical crimes and get btfo for it. There was only one good villain in Zero, Ernest.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:39
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Azure, Finale: So now that I have seven party members I have to pick one to sit out. Is there anyone out of the three optional ones with relevant/interesting dialogue for the Moon/Stargazer’s Tower depending on who you bring? (Kinda silly that they just don’t lock you in to four active slots/two reserve and just assume everyone’s there for narrative purposes, but whatevs. Or even just cut out the middle man, it makes sense in Cold Steel mechanically why you wouldn’t want the entire Class 7+allies on the team at once because that’s like three and a half parties for a given boss, but reserve characters are aggressively underpowered in Zero/Azure aside from maybe Elie healing you for a lot)
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Sep 19, 2023 04:18
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Last Celebration posted:Azure, Finale: So now that I have seven party members I have to pick one to sit out. Is there anyone out of the three optional ones with relevant/interesting dialogue for the Moon/Stargazer’s Tower depending on who you bring? Ahahahahahahahaha please. Please. I'm sick of going through all the events so many times. Anyway Azure has the Sky priority system for generic lines rather than the Cold Steel chime ins. Wazy>Rixia>Noel for 'mysterious' lines Noel> Rixia>Wazy for 'strong' lines Etc Based on my experience, Noel didn't really get any good lines... period, and Arianrhod ignored her, but talked to the other 2. So really.... for maximum line quality, take the 2 of them for the rest of the game. You're never forced to Use Noel or 8th but these two are mandatory in the final dungeon for their plot climaxes.
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Sep 19, 2023 04:28
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Works for me, Wazy and Rixia seemed way more relevant to the endgame stretch narratively anyway, and Noel’s ability to go scorched earth kinda fell off with endgame arts.
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Sep 19, 2023 04:34
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Noel has the best romance dialogues and biggest hits from Llyod’s denseness power
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Sep 19, 2023 04:45
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Azure: im so tired of looking at Sleipnirs. So loving tired. Please for the love of Aidios tell me I don’t have to kill another dozen of them in CS3/4.
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Sep 19, 2023 08:23
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Sick of all those motherfuckin' Sleipnirs in this motherfuckin' game? Don't worry, the enemies are more varied in CS3, although the unwinnable fights are back with a vengeance but at least warn you in advance now.
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Sep 19, 2023 10:41
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I’m pretty sure it took like twenty minutes straight of huddling in a corner but i beat Arianhod. I’m guessing the”Mask Fell Off” is the condition to continue with the story, since her SCraft started doing three times my max health (as opposed to “only” all of it) afterwards on the handful of times it got through the Zero Field. Wonder how you’d do that fight on Nightmare without it? I guess you can probably survive it in Phase 1 with just defense buffs, and then…Adamantine Wall? Zero Field is so crazy good
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Sep 19, 2023 11:19
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Last Celebration posted:I’m pretty sure it took like twenty minutes straight of huddling in a corner but i beat Arianhod. I’m guessing the”Mask Fell Off” is the condition to continue with the story, since her SCraft started doing three times my max health (as opposed to “only” all of it) afterwards on the handful of times it got through the Zero Field. I'm pretty sure that even defense buffs fall short there. Defense in the Trails games is kind of a dump stat to begin with since it reduces one point of damage for every point of defense, meaning it's okay if you face a large group of small fry who try to cherry tap you to death (if there's 8 mini mooks wailing on you, it makes a difference whether they do 500 or 1000 points of damage per attack), but against S-crafts it often doesn't matter whether you eat 14000 or 14500 points. But yes, Adamantine Wall. (every once in a while, Trails just throws a "Block this poo poo or die"-boss your way, see 3rd's final boss) Or, best of all, both. Max Guard (inflicted by Zero Field) and Craft Guard (inflicted by Adamantine Wall) are counted as separate buffs, meaning you can have both active at the same time, giving you three layers of protection before her S-craft sends your team to Aidios. You can also layer Arts Reflect on top of it, so if she chews through your Max Guard and uses her Thunder attack, it'll reflect back on her four times and if you're on a higher difficulty, her boosted stats mean they'll hit her back extra hard.
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Sep 19, 2023 11:36
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Huh, if damage is just straight up attack - defense it makes a lot of sense how high-end enemies have basic arts ding off them and take respectable damage from the super high end ones. Which is kind of annoying, paying 200+ AP for a move that hits the entire field for big damage makes sense if, you know, you’re hitting the entire field, but feels exorbitant to hit one enemy. Also I’m seeing how arts are just straight up goated endgame, having a quartz you’d want anyway for it’s elemental values give you immediate movement after you finish casting is kinda cracked, and buffing magic almost feels more viable than normal attacks since ATS+ lasts five turns and you only need one person to refresh it. Oh and for story: i went with Tio for that final bond thing since it made the most sense to do it in Zero narratively and I figured why switch things up for Azure, wish it was more platonic like the achievement claims (or that the age difference was slimmer, it’s a cute pairing besides that) but the fact that Tio mentioned her parents sending her a letter makes me wonder, are all of those bonding things gonna have some story stuff in them I probably wouldn’t see otherwise?
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Sep 19, 2023 12:10
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Last Celebration posted:Huh, if damage is just straight up attack - defense it makes a lot of sense how high-end enemies have basic arts ding off them and take respectable damage from the super high end ones. Which is kind of annoying, paying 200+ AP for a move that hits the entire field for big damage makes sense if, you know, you’re hitting the entire field, but feels exorbitant to hit one enemy. Spark Dyne is often considered the golden middle-of-the-road art for damage dealing. It only hits a small area, but it does solid damage even during the end game and isn't isn't overly expensive, making it a useful tool to wittle down bosses and strong enemies. And the magic buff is kind of deceptive since casting an art chews up two buffing turns in the Crossbell games. The 5 turn buff was Falcom's bandaid solution to both the charging and the casting turn being counted in Zero and Azure, severely diminishing the usefulness of buffs for casting-oriented party members. In Zero, an ATS-boosted party member could only get off a single buffed art and then someone else had to renew the buff since they didn't even have enough turns left to recast Fortuna themselves. (they fixed this in Cold Steel by not having the charging turn count as an actual turn) Regarding bonding events, the answer is yes for several members, except the two party members with an outright romantic bonding event. (you can probably guess which two) Three of your party members even have part of their backstory locked behind their final bonding events that you'd expect to witness during story-critical scenes rather than missable scenes.
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Sep 19, 2023 12:34
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Several of the final bonds in Azure have interesting story stuff not revealed in full, particularly Randy, Rixia, and Wazy. Tio I'd actually rank at the bottom in both games, for a combination of being uninteresting, and because Tio does still come across as as a child in several ways, so I'm not a fan of her crush on Lloyd.
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Sep 19, 2023 12:39
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Last Celebration posted:Huh, if damage is just straight up attack - defense it makes a lot of sense how high-end enemies have basic arts ding off them and take respectable damage from the super high end ones. Which is kind of annoying, paying 200+ AP for a move that hits the entire field for big damage makes sense if, you know, you’re hitting the entire field, but feels exorbitant to hit one enemy. Wazy's Backstory, the final piece of Randy's Trauma with art, and Rixia's features Lloyd saying "I love you" right from the getgo, without realizing it. Also Full Yin Backstory, with art. I went with Rixia, mostly because I felt it was unfair that she only joined for the last 20 hours in this 160 hour story. And honestly upon looking back, her chemistry with Lloyd is highest. She also, very quickly went up my character rankings once I got to actually spend time with her. MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 13:00
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Erpy posted:Spark Dyne is often considered the golden middle-of-the-road art for damage dealing. It only hits a small area, but it does solid damage even during the end game and isn't isn't overly expensive, making it a useful tool to wittle down bosses and strong enemies. And the magic buff is kind of deceptive since casting an art chews up two buffing turns in the Crossbell games. The 5 turn buff was Falcom's bandaid solution to both the charging and the casting turn being counted in Zero and Azure, severely diminishing the usefulness of buffs for casting-oriented party members. In Zero, an ATS-boosted party member could only get off a single buffed art and then someone else had to renew the buff since they didn't even have enough turns left to recast Fortuna themselves. (they fixed this in Cold Steel by not having the charging turn count as an actual turn) Yeah, I noticed Spark Dyne was bizarrely good relative to the other spells at doing damage, but the whole “can act right after finishing casting” -Bell quarts seems pretty useful so I was trying to capitalize. And oh hell yes, oh gently caress yes, this game has romantic options with Randy and Wazy? And everyone was bitching about how Crossbell was the start of the harem, smdh. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Several of the final bonds in Azure have interesting story stuff not revealed in full, particularly Randy, Rixia, and Wazy. Tio I'd actually rank at the bottom in both games, for a combination of being uninteresting, and because Tio does still come across as as a child in several ways, so I'm not a fan of her crush on Lloyd. Eh, I liked the parts of Tio’s bond stuff where she talks about trying to figure out her place in the world and how to function in general after her emotions got stunted with the cult experiments, it’s just, why do you hate the idea of platonic love so much Falcom? I mentioned before about it, but you’d really think in the one JRPG series where the characters go on to have their own lives and adventures as NPCs in the sequels after their own big JRPG adventure finished, it would be a no-brainer to write them where they could all have reasonably happened, because it kinda favors the guys over the girls otherwise.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:13
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MythosDragon posted:Wazy's Backstory, the final piece of Randy's Trauma with art, and Rixia's features Lloyd saying "I love you" right from the getgo, without realizing it. Also Full Yin Backstory, with art. Well gently caress lol. Can you carry over affection between NG+? Or do you need to do seven runs for everyone’s thing, i kinda got the impression by the fact that there was an Accept/Decline prompt that you can just talk to any qualifying member and savescum if you just want the lore and not [Team Attack] 3.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:17
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Last Celebration posted:Azure: im so tired of looking at Sleipnirs. So loving tired. Please for the love of Aidios tell me I don’t have to kill another dozen of them in CS3/4. they're one of the CS3 prologue bosses lmao
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Sep 19, 2023 13:50
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If you don't pick Randy you're a loser tbh
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Sep 19, 2023 14:08
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