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Stegosnaurlax posted:The blame lies here Oh so THIS is the legacy they were going on about. Re: episode order, just watch and enjoy the show. You don’t need to jump through hoops. They put it out that way for pacing reasons, and between binging it and being nerds y’all will be able to understand what’s doing on just fine.
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Sep 17, 2023 17:13
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456 is at least a large story that is presented in order. Sometimes Clone Wars was in enough of a disorder that it would be like if you took all the scenes from the OT and arranged them so Luke shows up at Cloud City after being missing since Hoth, then after Luke falls down the hole, we get to the part where he meets Yoda.
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Sep 17, 2023 17:13
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Just make sure you watch A Sunny Day in the Void. Get the whole D Squad arc in
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Sep 17, 2023 22:47
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I don't mind Ahsoka's power stances. It reminds me of a less cool version of old Shaw Bros. kung fu power stances. Now if only the fighting was at that level.
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Sep 17, 2023 23:43
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Larryb posted:Out of curiosity, why did they decide to air Clone Wars the way they did rather than chronologically? Even the movie technically takes place a couple episodes into the series Mostly they wanted flashback episodes or came up with ideas for prequels later on. I think even the first Christophsis episode that became a part of the movie was meant to be aired later in S1 originally. They keep using Christophsis because it's useful shorthand for generic stuff that happened early on. It's not actually a larger connected story that has been broken up and scattered through the show. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 00:13
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Yeah, Clone Wars isn't a contiguous narrative like the films or Rebels is. If an episode or arc is released later but takes place earlier, it has to be understood in the same context that the prequels themselves do relative to the original trilogy - like when we see the clones in action and only then go back and see that their training was hosed up and terrible (in more specific ways than we could already intuit from the movies, of course).
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Sep 18, 2023 00:56
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Jehde posted:I am genuinely curious about this Andor-TLJ contrast. I love both and I am bewildered by this framing. I spend too much time on twitter and see a lot of posts by TLJ fans going on about how it’s the best of all 9 films and so on and so forth. It’s been broken down many times why it’s fine (and there are parts I like) but in many ways feels like a film written by a film snob who wanted to write something that proved a lot of the fans were “wrong” for liking what they like. It’s basically constantly pulling the rug out from under what the “audience wants”. It’s audience subversion all the way down. Now, on its face that’s not necessary bad, but it feels like Johnson is doing it more to prove a point than to tell the best story he could. Andor meanwhile is just better. It’s the same universe, but expands on it. TLJ wants to say new things while not really doing so. Andor just does say new things. There is a run of episodes that basically have an all timer line every single episode. Now, Ashoka is messy and limited in a lot of ways, but it’s also fun and isn’t trying to not have fan service. But the Vader shots? The fight? Those are good fan service moments.
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Sep 18, 2023 01:07
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I mean Andor is the best Star Wars thing ever made, with the exception of maybe Empire. TLJ and Ahsoka honestly probably stay in around the same lane as a thing where I generally understand most non garbage human being related complaints and flaws, but I still found it by far the most enjoyable movie of the 3 ST movies, which is as much damning with faint praise as you want to apply. Ahsoka similarly has a ton of flaws, but it still works for me. But like yeah, Andor is legit one of my favorite seasons of TV full stop in a long long long while. Comparing anything to it is going to lead to disappointment.
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Sep 18, 2023 01:31
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I will never understand the film snob allegations. It's not a deep film at all. If TLJ pulls the rug out from under audience expectation its because the previous film was the most workman-like, dull and bland rehash of poo poo we've already seen, and trying to course correct in any way was bound to feel jarring.
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Sep 18, 2023 01:44
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Star wars 8 feels jarring because the first 75% makes it seem like there is going to be a course correction, then the last 25% says there won't be actually, all the star wars poo poo is great in fact. It's just a structurally hosed film that should have ended on the kylo/rey join me? beat for a variety of reasons
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Sep 18, 2023 01:49
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TLJ doesn't even say anything particularly subversive lol. TLJ simply says, rich people profit off of conflict(admittedly a very tacked on part of the movie), and the previous generations despite having their flaws, still should be honored and respected and used to learn from that past. While the younger generation steps into becoming the new leaders for whatever comes next. But then turns out in RoS no one listens or gives a poo poo about the new generation and everyone just ignores them until Lando says "hey guys it's me lando, come help these people." and then the whole galaxy shows up. Dexo fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 01:58
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Yeah he pitched a subversive movie and missed the plate by a mile.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:01
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Like the notion that people unironically think that the thing that should have happened in TLJ is that the heroine should join the villian who says. "gently caress old things they provide nothing of worth, only thing that matters is power, please rule with me as a fascist dictator of the galaxy" Is wild lol.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:01
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I'm done trying to defend why i can't stand it. I'll just never watch it again and be happy with that
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Sep 18, 2023 02:07
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Stegosnaurlax posted:Yeah he pitched a subversive movie and missed the plate by a mile. I don't think he pitched a particularly subversive movie. once again, That movie ended with the notion of Luke, a member of the old generation, despite all the gently caress ups and flaws he had surrounding Kylo, becoming a legend and theoretical symbol of hope allowing the resistance to escape, and rally. With a message across the galaxy. It was RoS that torched that extremely open hand-off
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Sep 18, 2023 02:08
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Stegosnaurlax posted:I'm done trying to defend why i can't stand it. I'll just never watch it again and be happy with that Not liking it is fine, plenty of things I don't like that other people love. Not trying to make you like it, just explaining my read on the movie, and why I personally like it.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:10
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I will never understand the film snob allegations. It's not a deep film at all. If TLJ pulls the rug out from under audience expectation its because the previous film was the most workman-like, dull and bland rehash of poo poo we've already seen, and trying to course correct in any way was bound to feel jarring. I don’t think it’s a deep film or actually subversive. I’m saying that’s how film snobs thought of it, and it makes me roll my eyes. Also he did Finn massively dirty.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:19
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John Boyega was robbed.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:22
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Dexo posted:Like the notion that people unironically think that the thing that should have happened in TLJ is that the heroine should join the villian who says. I'm not sure if you were responding to my post or not, but that's not what I said. Ending the movie on the note of rey considering the offer would achieve a bunch of things. First and best it would make the movie, which most seem to grant is too long, shorter. It would also serve as a sign that rey is taking the movie's own criticisms seriously. As it plays out, none of the nominal criticisms about arms dealers or the jedi books being boring or the resistance and republic being dysfunctional really matter. As leia says they end the movie already having everything they need. Ending on that note makes it easier for the next guy to actually integrate and build on those ideas. When rian himself is already dismissing them by the end of the film, why would the next guy spend time on them? Also, who's to say she would accept the offer sincerely? Maybe she does it in a way where she has the best intentions to bring kylo and the first order down from within, and actually has to grapple with some temptation in the process and maybe grow a bit by learning firsthand that it was a bad idea
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Sep 18, 2023 02:22
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The Finn stuff I admit wasn't great in TLJ. Better than RoS where if I wasn't giving folks the benefit of the doubt I would think that reactionary rear end movie was making a statement against Miscegenation lmao. They hosed Finn over so bad in that trilogy man...
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Sep 18, 2023 02:26
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Stegosnaurlax posted:John Boyega was robbed. He really was. I like Oscar Isaac and Daisy Ridley well enough but Boyega was on another level. He felt like a worthy successor to Ford in how he can bring a kind of goofy vulnerability to the character without being full-on comic relief.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:34
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Dexo posted:Like the notion that people unironically think that the thing that should have happened in TLJ is that the heroine should join the villian who says. I think she should have, because it would have been interesting. Anakin is almost coerced into being a bad guy by Palpatine's manipulation. Luke is the Boy Scout who rejects the offer, twice, to have absolute power. Rey is the third option: what if the good guy willingly chose it? Where does that go?
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Sep 18, 2023 02:46
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Sash! posted:I think she should have, because it would have been interesting. Anakin is almost coerced into being a bad guy by Palpatine's manipulation. Luke is the Boy Scout who rejects the offer, twice, to have absolute power. Rey is the third option: what if the good guy willingly chose it? Where does that go? Anakin was played like a fiddle. There's no almost about it.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:49
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There should be a lightsaber violin you play like a fiddle(with another lightsaber)
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Sep 18, 2023 02:51
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The idea that it's unfathomable that rey would make a huge mistake is sort of toxic to a good story featuring her. I mean that's basically what the existing sequel trilogy is and it sucks
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Sep 18, 2023 02:52
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Sash! posted:I think she should have, because it would have been interesting. Anakin is almost coerced into being a bad guy by Palpatine's manipulation. Luke is the Boy Scout who rejects the offer, twice, to have absolute power. Rey is the third option: what if the good guy willingly chose it? Where does that go? Anakin's almost coerced into being a bad guy? Also Anakin chose it willingly. He made the decision.
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Sep 18, 2023 02:54
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Anakin comes really close to making some mistakes
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Sep 18, 2023 02:58
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Anakin comes really close to making some mistakes They cut away before he made a room full of them
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Sep 18, 2023 03:02
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anakin makes one good decision ever and that's risking his own life for other peoples' well-being as a nine year old child, after which he gets instructed to kill other people for other peoples' well-being instead, and he never gets an opportunity to interrogate that underlying premise. it's hardly a surprise that when his good (only?) friend tells him to kill people for other peoples' well-being he just goes along with it. the tragedy of anakin skywalker is not a good person turned to evil, it's a kid with a bomb in his head never learning what it means to be good in the first place. to bring this back to rey: she faces a broadly similar challenge in that she's never really had the opportunity to consider how or why she should use her incredible powers for violence, but the plot events continuously put her in situations where incredible violence with no thought is the correct answer to her problems, right up to the point where she is about to inherit the mantle of Every Sith Ever from palpatine, at which point no-longer-kylo-ren dies and this lets her use incredible violence correctly instead of incorrectly. it's like if anakin skywalker decapitated mace windu and also palpatine then went home happy. it's crap. ungulateman fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 03:03
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In fairness the killing Jedi did in the war was largely against droids
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Sep 18, 2023 03:10
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HootTheOwl posted:They cut away before he made a room full of them He swings his lightsaber at the younglings but trips and lands on his balls, every youngling escapes and has a long career as a protagonist of a video game, comic, eu novel, or Filoni show.
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Sep 18, 2023 03:16
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Anakin successfully stabbing all the children in the chest, only to face-fault as they survive through increasingly silly circumstances and get whisked away to become minor antagonists in bad secondary media
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Sep 18, 2023 03:20
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Insofar as star wars 8 is attempting a theme it's pretty obviously "learn from your mistakes" or some variant on that. Ending the movie with rey about to make a mistake with the implication she's going to have to take the L and then grow beyond it has some appeal. Instead she's pretty much disconnected from that theme, the only failure people seem to be able to muster is that she wrongly saw good in kylo. Charitably, I guess the lesson that some people actually are beyond redemption could have been an interesting hot take if it was explored more than not at all
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Sep 18, 2023 03:20
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My only beef with The Last Jedi is I feel like the A and B plots don't cohere very well. I think a more disciplined, focused approach on the space poo poo (and less casino planet) paralleling the Rey training poo poo would have improved it. The whole Boyega plot feels like a big narrative detour and a tremendous waste of the character and his relationship. I find its overall plot structure sloppy and tonally all over the map (that problem new genre films have with overstuffing their long runtimes). But it's got a lot of cool poo poo in it and is definitely the best of the ST. A tighter script would have made it even better. I didn't mind the Rey stuff, but I also wasn't expecting or wanting a big bold subversion. Solid B. For me, ANH is better, Empire is better, Rogue One is better, Andor is better. Love Rat fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 04:12
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Anakin was groomed from a very small child by an Olympic level gaslighter. He made a choice, but in the end it was just the Trolley Problem for him, and Padme won every time.
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Sep 18, 2023 04:24
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Well, except the last one.
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Sep 18, 2023 05:02
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Jerusalem posted:I love the freeway scene because whenever people ask me to say something good about the Matrix sequels I can say with all honesty,"The freeway scene was really good!" They literally traced that scene from the Dragon Ball 18 and Vegeta fight scene, so yeah, it tracks.
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Sep 18, 2023 12:25
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Finally caught up with Ahsoka. Episodes 1 and 2 were dire. Episode 3 was boring. Episode 4 had promise. Episode 5 was terrific. Really didn't think this show was going to turn it around, but am pleasantly surprised at this episode just being pure, good Star Wars. The entire world between worlds was fan service done well—tasteful, organic, and coming from a place of serving the story and characters. Fan service in Star Wars is usually the terrible, detracting, eye-rolling sort. It was a real treat to see The Clone Wars come to life in a way that felt fully-formed. The Grogu flashback to Order 66 and the Obi-Wan training sequence felt like cheap imitations of the prequel aesthetic, while this actually felt like the characters were properly in it. Great art direction, really felt just dreamy and surreal enough while also being grounded. Young Ahsoka was great, and Hayden completely nailed it. He didn't back off of his performance from the prequels at all and also married it with the character's portrayal in TCW. His physicality in the fight was really powerful and impressive, especially being 20 years older than the last time around, and the de-ageing was well done. They also managed to stay on the right side of de-mystefying the Force, though just barely. I feel like I "got" what the world between worlds was more here than in the cartoons. I wish they weren't explicit about Jacen hearing lightsabers, or about the map containing a sense memory of Sabine. Those same moments would have worked a lot better if we just watched the characters experiencing them without corny sound effects or explanations. It's so much more enigmatic when Leia just has a feeling that Luke is in trouble under Cloud City, we don't need an explanation of how that power works. Jacen kinda sucks, though, and I'm bummed we have to deal with him for the foreseeable future. Also, with the fleet coming in I really thought the space whales were going to go to hyperspace as a pod and drag Hera and the other ships with them to set up a "small Imperial remnant fleet vs small remnant Republic fleet" in the other galaxy. That woulda been cool but whatever. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 14:13
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I also just caught up with this series yesterday. Really pleased with the last couple of episodes and where it's going. It's magical. This has been discussed before but episodes 1-2 feel really bad aside from the sparse action. Directed at about half speed, like every line needs time for audience reaction and nobody reacts instinctively. Line, beat, expression, pause for reflection, response. Whole conversations where no one is on screen at the same time even in an over the shoulder shot and no one speaks off screen. Even the lightsaber battles pale in comparison to Anakin-Ahsoka. I actively wondered what happened during production to force these choices.
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Sep 18, 2023 15:01
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Yeah, Hayden is actually a decent actor but you’d never know it if your only experience with him was the prequels (same goes for Natalie Portman). Some actors do better with poor direction than others I guess
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Sep 18, 2023 15:34
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