UFOs are real

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Overdog: Jul 12, 2023; by CVG
(and can't post for 10 years!)

Stealthgerbil posted:

I hope aliens are real and that they also do have genitals and anuses.

But one huge space tibby, right in the middle. :hmmyes:

# ? Sep 18, 2023 02:21

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 23:53

luchadornado: Oct 7, 2004; A boombox is not a toy!

last night, spread my cheeks
pointed my hole to the moon
no probe, just bug bites

# ? Sep 18, 2023 02:59

SniperWoreConverse: Mar 20, 2010; Gun Saliva

mediaphage posted:

lol man both threads are really insufferable tbqh

anyway

chirality makes for more stable dna, a racemic mixture of nucleic acids is less stable

i think if we find a microbe on venus or mars or something, there's a better than even chance there's a connecting link in some direction with earth. finding it on an outer system moon, though, imo has a better than even chance of being independent.

anyway iirc we've found all five nucleotides in asteroids now so if there's a big grey bugger out there imo it probably uses a similar coding

yeah i'm saying it's possible a specific chirality is naturally preferred due to some process. Are there other-handed bases just chilling on these asteroids or is the population of offworld bases roughly the same or what the poo poo? That's a big indicator, maybe somehow random bases got kicked off earth or there is something else that causes them to prefer to assemble in a certain way.

If they're roughly equal then i guess the question is if you took the most basic microbe, and synthed up a genome & good set of proteins that were all flipped but otherwise exactly the same, and put it in a jar with plenty of flipped food and all that, would it be fine? Would it be any different?

id' argue the ufo threads are at "sufferable" tier

# ? Sep 18, 2023 03:18

redshirt: Aug 11, 2007

SniperWoreConverse posted:

yeah i'm saying it's possible a specific chirality is naturally preferred due to some process. Are there other-handed bases just chilling on these asteroids or is the population of offworld bases roughly the same or what the poo poo? That's a big indicator, maybe somehow random bases got kicked off earth or there is something else that causes them to prefer to assemble in a certain way.

If they're roughly equal then i guess the question is if you took the most basic microbe, and synthed up a genome & good set of proteins that were all flipped but otherwise exactly the same, and put it in a jar with plenty of flipped food and all that, would it be fine? Would it be any different?

id' argue the ufo threads are at "sufferable" tier

Gonna be so many PHDs

# ? Sep 18, 2023 03:20

mediaphage: Mar 22, 2007; Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

SniperWoreConverse posted:

r is the population of offworld bases roughly the same

yeah, in the ryugu samples, for example, where they found uracil, the amino acids were in a racemic mix

# ? Sep 18, 2023 03:31

SniperWoreConverse: Mar 20, 2010; Gun Saliva

so then if this holds i guess we have options like

the turian style biospheres are maybe possible
detected in-system life, if it happens, and is flipped, could still have originated in-system somehow and isn't some crap that fell in from elsewere

but if we get detections and they're not flipped, then i'd think it's possible we could have something like cross pollination in-system from meteors or whatever and it all just coincidentally mostly settled on our style, or there is some pressure due to physics, which would imply outside life forms would be same chirality as us -- multiple in-system genesis still isn't ruled out.

alternately racemic mixes only show up in places with no atmosphere, and there's something going on like sunlight is polarized by water drops or some poo poo and this, through some mechanism, suppresses one chirality compared to the other. Either one chirality gets outcompeted in the polarized environment, or is just less likely to be formed in the very environments that support life.

but then you could get really wild situations like biomes that don't have this pressure because they're all deep sea vent based or w/e, and so polarization of light has no meaningful effect. You could have situations where there are life forms of different chiralities interacting in the same biome completely naturally. How the hell would that play out? You'd have some pressure to be able to digest and interact with the other chirality. If you end up with an event that starts up a mitochondria analogue that is the opposite chirality as you, does that make it more or less likely to get to eukaryote-alikes sooner? Would you have to make sure you get all your nutrients which maybe includes both chiralities of everything? Real weird poo poo, could open up a huge amount of complexity.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 05:05

redshirt: Aug 11, 2007

SniperWoreConverse posted:

so then if this holds i guess we have options like

the turian style biospheres are maybe possible
detected in-system life, if it happens, and is flipped, could still have originated in-system somehow and isn't some crap that fell in from elsewere

but if we get detections and they're not flipped, then i'd think it's possible we could have something like cross pollination in-system from meteors or whatever and it all just coincidentally mostly settled on our style, or there is some pressure due to physics, which would imply outside life forms would be same chirality as us -- multiple in-system genesis still isn't ruled out.

alternately racemic mixes only show up in places with no atmosphere, and there's something going on like sunlight is polarized by water drops or some poo poo and this, through some mechanism, suppresses one chirality compared to the other. Either one chirality gets outcompeted in the polarized environment, or is just less likely to be formed in the very environments that support life.

but then you could get really wild situations like biomes that don't have this pressure because they're all deep sea vent based or w/e, and so polarization of light has no meaningful effect. You could have situations where there are life forms of different chiralities interacting in the same biome completely naturally. How the hell would that play out? You'd have some pressure to be able to digest and interact with the other chirality. If you end up with an event that starts up a mitochondria analogue that is the opposite chirality as you, does that make it more or less likely to get to eukaryote-alikes sooner? Would you have to make sure you get all your nutrients which maybe includes both chiralities of everything? Real weird poo poo, could open up a huge amount of complexity.

Another bug hunt, sir?

# ? Sep 18, 2023 05:09

Mulaney Power Move: Dec 30, 2004

The government has indeed downplayed UFO sightings, but it was because the phone lines got so tied up during the Washington DC UFO incident in the 1950s that they couldn't communicate and that was very bad during the Cold War

# ? Sep 18, 2023 05:22

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

mediaphage posted:

lol man both threads are really insufferable tbqh

What's the other one? Always down for a good laugh.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 05:24

Spazzle: Jul 5, 2003

SniperWoreConverse posted:

If they're roughly equal then i guess the question is if you took the most basic microbe, and synthed up a genome & good set of proteins that were all flipped but otherwise exactly the same, and put it in a jar with plenty of flipped food and all that, would it be fine? Would it be any different?

There shouldn't be any difference. Nothing about physics prefers one configuration over the other.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 05:44

Overdog: Jul 12, 2023; by CVG
(and can't post for 10 years!)

I think if we consider the nature of a massless, lightless void, and the nature of consciousness, that an analytical model of creation is the only one that can exist. As a void looks into its own nature, the only function of memory it can exploit is to go faster and thereby create a history of thought. Making hallowed tunnels, wormholes, that go nowhere, but go. And as they go faster and faster, some of the void becomes fast, then all of the void becomes fast, and there is mass that follows these hallowed prayers in the form of elastic carbon flesh as a molecular portal configuration. The mathematical necessity for the wormholes to have an end in order to exist creates an ultimate self knowledge of design, of an individual, of their own design. A worm of flesh that chases the thought. And when the whole void is mass, when it's all known, and all these thoughts are exercised in a writhing mass of worms, woven in space, it can achieve a true heat death. And this true death is the origin of knowledge. A fallen mass of ash and dirt and white hot sun that it orbits. One star, one planet. The afterlife of all of creation. A planet of endless fauna and plant life, a canopy so dense that it makes a pitch black floor. The complete heat death of the universe. And as the death begins to make animated knowledge and liberate its own design, it makes bugs, complex animals, to let light into the planet by eating some of the death. And as they explore the horizon, some of them begin to look up to all of the origins. So we are essentially just very fast evolved bugs who look up, and the answer to "is this all just a meaningless void" is.. no. :dukedog:

# ? Sep 18, 2023 06:03

SniperWoreConverse: Mar 20, 2010; Gun Saliva

Spazzle posted:

There shouldn't be any difference. Nothing about physics prefers one configuration over the other.

Not so sure. We know light does all kinda poo poo to biology and is the base for almost all earth ecosystems. We know the same scattering that makes the sky blue polarizes sunlight in different ways i'd have to grow a new brain to get a grip on. We also know light is polarized going thru a glass of sugar solution cause the sugars are chiral. A bunch of light absorbing pigments & chlorophyl are all chiral'd up.

sugar polarizes the light because it has a chirality dictated by the chirality of all the machinery that built the molecule, all the way back down to base pairs.
Those bases have the chirality they do for some reason, maybe it's just that earth coin flipped into one chirality becoming dominant.
Maybe it's not coincidence. Maybe something about the polarization of light hitting earth in the early era predisposed one handedness and not the other, which would be dictated by the atmosphere in those times
- If that's the case, then in situations where earthlike geological compositions are important to life emerging, life on those planets will be predisposed to have the same handedness as on earth.

put some different algae and bacteria in dishes and make sure they only get light that's oppositely polarized from normal light, not ever polarized at all, same as sunlight, etc. see if they do any different.
- become a biotech overlord and somehow synthesize the same germs from scratch, but with opposite chirality. Get your nobel and use the money to run the same experiment with these flipped ones.
- do these experiments but in dishes where any nutrients the germs require are 50/50 but the same density of known-usable food in the agar
- do the same thing again, but 50/50 the germ populations and food in the same dishes (or dishes twice as big?), see if one outcompetes the other and under what conditions
replicate whatever conditions cause bases to form on asteroids. obviously check the mixtures to see if you're getting the 50/50 and quantities observed on the asteroids
- do it again with natural earth style sunlight applied
- do it again with reverse-earth-polarized light applied
do all those previous experiments again, but in an atmosphere that closely resembles the one of the early earth and not what we have today, and make sure the inbound light resembles what it would if it were passing through an entire bigass atmosphere with that composition, instead of basing off the current day polarization regime.
do some survey to see if there are possibly any weird bacteria or something floating around earth that are even partially reverse chiral under normal circumstances. It's been billions of years but maybe there are some left, somewhere? Use an electron microscope to examine bacterial inclusions in ancient gemstones or some poo poo?
investigate the handedness situation for the base of non-light-related ecosystems. Are these base chems at all chiral? As in do they come out of the vent 50/50, or are they just not chemicals that are chiral, or if they are do they not come out racemic for some reason?
try to do the mission that found dna bases on asteroids, but repeated on different planets, the moon, planetoids, all that poo poo. You already got famous as gently caress for your previous experiments, you can talk agencies into including it.

And all that is only based on the polarization of light. I feel like saying physics has no preference under any circumstance ever is jumping the gun. The asteroids being 50/50 only says physics has no preference on asteroids, which don't have atmospheres, basically by definition. Biology comes back to chem which is part of physics so :shrug:

SniperWoreConverse fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Sep 18, 2023

# ? Sep 18, 2023 07:44

syntaxfunction: Oct 27, 2010

Bunch of Greys with polarised sunglasses smoking joints and being all "well to us *you're* the aliens!"

Woah

# ? Sep 18, 2023 08:15

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

If you want to know why chirality is conserved, it's very simple.

It's because biochemistry is stupid.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 08:44

BigBadSteve: Apr 29, 2009

Overdog posted:

I think if we consider the nature of a massless, lightless void, and the nature of consciousness, that an analytical model of creation is the only one that can exist. As a void looks into its own nature, the only function of memory it can exploit is to go faster and thereby create a history of thought. Making hallowed tunnels, wormholes, that go nowhere, but go. And as they go faster and faster, some of the void becomes fast, then all of the void becomes fast, and there is mass that follows these hallowed prayers in the form of elastic carbon flesh as a molecular portal configuration. The mathematical necessity for the wormholes to have an end in order to exist creates an ultimate self knowledge of design, of an individual, of their own design. A worm of flesh that chases the thought. And when the whole void is mass, when it's all known, and all these thoughts are exercised in a writhing mass of worms, woven in space, it can achieve a true heat death. And this true death is the origin of knowledge. A fallen mass of ash and dirt and white hot sun that it orbits. One star, one planet. The afterlife of all of creation. A planet of endless fauna and plant life, a canopy so dense that it makes a pitch black floor. The complete heat death of the universe. And as the death begins to make animated knowledge and liberate its own design, it makes bugs, complex animals, to let light into the planet by eating some of the death. And as they explore the horizon, some of them begin to look up to all of the origins. So we are essentially just very fast evolved bugs who look up, and the answer to "is this all just a meaningless void" is.. no.

So's my dick.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 10:05

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

its your girl, chillary, abiogenesing at grand rapids

# ? Sep 18, 2023 13:57

Wee: Dec 16, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

Sure i WAS a U.S. Army Counterintelligence Special Agent , but I assure you I no longer have any relationship with them. Now, let me tell you how aliens are real.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 14:12

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Wee posted:

Sure i WAS a U.S. Army Counterintelligence Special Agent , but I assure you I no longer have any relationship with them. Now, let me tell you how aliens are real.

I trust you because you have lived a life of integrity and honor.

temple fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Sep 18, 2023

# ? Sep 18, 2023 14:21

ThinkTank: Oct 23, 2007

temple posted:

I trust you because you are lived a life of integrity and honor.

No one involved with the military industrial complex would ever lie for personal gain. I'm convinced!

# ? Sep 18, 2023 14:28

maybeadracula: Sep 9, 2022; by sebmojo

I prefer ambidextrous molecules

# ? Sep 18, 2023 14:46

Spazzle: Jul 5, 2003

SniperWoreConverse posted:

Not so sure. We know light does all kinda poo poo to biology and is the base for almost all earth ecosystems. We know the same scattering that makes the sky blue polarizes sunlight in different ways i'd have to grow a new brain to get a grip on. We also know light is polarized going thru a glass of sugar solution cause the sugars are chiral. A bunch of light absorbing pigments & chlorophyl are all chiral'd up.
It seems plausible to me that this cause and effect could be a little complicated:

sugar polarizes the light because it has a chirality dictated by the chirality of all the machinery that built the molecule, all the way back down to base pairs.

Those bases have the chirality they do for some reason, maybe it's just that earth coin flipped into one chirality becoming dominant.

Maybe it's not coincidence. Maybe something about the polarization of light hitting earth in the early era predisposed one handedness and not the other, which would be dictated by the atmosphere in those times
- If that's the case, then in situations where earthlike geological compositions are important to life emerging, life on those planets will be predisposed to have the same handedness as on earth.

There's a bunch of different angles you can use to investigate this:

put some different algae and bacteria in dishes and make sure they only get light that's oppositely polarized from normal light, not ever polarized at all, same as sunlight, etc. see if they do any different.
- become a biotech overlord and somehow synthesize the same germs from scratch, but with opposite chirality. Get your nobel and use the money to run the same experiment with these flipped ones.
- do these experiments but in dishes where any nutrients the germs require are 50/50 but the same density of known-usable food in the agar
- do the same thing again, but 50/50 the germ populations and food in the same dishes (or dishes twice as big?), see if one outcompetes the other and under what conditions

replicate whatever conditions cause bases to form on asteroids. obviously check the mixtures to see if you're getting the 50/50 and quantities observed on the asteroids
- do it again with natural earth style sunlight applied
- do it again with reverse-earth-polarized light applied

do all those previous experiments again, but in an atmosphere that closely resembles the one of the early earth and not what we have today, and make sure the inbound light resembles what it would if it were passing through an entire bigass atmosphere with that composition, instead of basing off the current day polarization regime.

do some survey to see if there are possibly any weird bacteria or something floating around earth that are even partially reverse chiral under normal circumstances. It's been billions of years but maybe there are some left, somewhere? Use an electron microscope to examine bacterial inclusions in ancient gemstones or some poo poo?

investigate the handedness situation for the base of non-light-related ecosystems. Are these base chems at all chiral? As in do they come out of the vent 50/50, or are they just not chemicals that are chiral, or if they are do they not come out racemic for some reason?

try to do the mission that found dna bases on asteroids, but repeated on different planets, the moon, planetoids, all that poo poo. You already got famous as gently caress for your previous experiments, you can talk agencies into including it.

And all that is only based on the polarization of light. I feel like saying physics has no preference under any circumstance ever is jumping the gun. The asteroids being 50/50 only says physics has no preference on asteroids, which don't have atmospheres, basically by definition. Biology comes back to chem which is part of physics so

Go back to smoking weed.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 15:01

Houle: Oct 21, 2010

So long as we are posting weed theories mine is that quantum foam is binary and small sequences of foam act basically like the game of life . These patterns in the quantum foam essentially make up the fundamental interactions of each type of quark.

The foam also is the dark energy causing expansion because it displaces the uni of empty space rather than space overdrawing. The reason it is moving faster than the speed of light is that over time each one of those particles of quantum foam pushes spaces out in all directions which has an accumulative effect.

It's difficult to fully appreciate this because any attempt of measure or observation would be using a hammer instead of a needle to do a lumbar puncture. No matter what we do it is too bulky and causes too much disruption to what we are trying to measure due to how small and fragile each system.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 15:31

naem: May 29, 2011

what flavor is the quantum foam

# ? Sep 18, 2023 15:52

maybeadracula: Sep 9, 2022; by sebmojo

naem posted:

what flavor is the quantum foam

I'm so sick of cosmological gastronomy

# ? Sep 18, 2023 15:53

SniperWoreConverse: Mar 20, 2010; Gun Saliva

syntaxfunction posted:

Bunch of Greys with polarised sunglasses smoking joints and being all "well to us *you're* the aliens!"

Woah

it's real

Spazzle posted:

Go back to smoking weed.

f u smoke my dong

naem posted:

what flavor is the quantum foam

strawberry

# ? Sep 18, 2023 15:57

TEMPLE GRANDIN OS: Dec 10, 2003; ...blyat

naem posted:

what flavor is the quantum foam

sharkleberry fin

# ? Sep 18, 2023 16:37

SonOfGhostDad: Nov 16, 2022

Overdog posted:

I think if we consider the nature of a massless, lightless void, and the nature of consciousness, that an analytical model of creation is the only one that can exist. As a void looks into its own nature, the only function of memory it can exploit is to go faster and thereby create a history of thought. Making hallowed tunnels, wormholes, that go nowhere, but go. And as they go faster and faster, some of the void becomes fast, then all of the void becomes fast, and there is mass that follows these hallowed prayers in the form of elastic carbon flesh as a molecular portal configuration. The mathematical necessity for the wormholes to have an end in order to exist creates an ultimate self knowledge of design, of an individual, of their own design. A worm of flesh that chases the thought. And when the whole void is mass, when it's all known, and all these thoughts are exercised in a writhing mass of worms, woven in space, it can achieve a true heat death. And this true death is the origin of knowledge. A fallen mass of ash and dirt and white hot sun that it orbits. One star, one planet. The afterlife of all of creation. A planet of endless fauna and plant life, a canopy so dense that it makes a pitch black floor. The complete heat death of the universe. And as the death begins to make animated knowledge and liberate its own design, it makes bugs, complex animals, to let light into the planet by eating some of the death. And as they explore the horizon, some of them begin to look up to all of the origins. So we are essentially just very fast evolved bugs who look up, and the answer to "is this all just a meaningless void" is.. no.

so you're clamdestineboyster, right?

# ? Sep 18, 2023 16:40

Impossibly Perfect Sphere: Nov 6, 2002; They wasted Luanne on Lucky!

She could of have been so much more but the writers just didn't care!

Do the aliens have taints?

# ? Sep 18, 2023 16:58

maybeadracula: Sep 9, 2022; by sebmojo

Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:

Do the aliens have taints?

Can you really have a taint if you don't have an anus?

# ? Sep 18, 2023 17:00

redshirt: Aug 11, 2007

What if UFOs can "surf" the cosmic foam? And just pop in where ever they like.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 17:09

NoiseAnnoys: May 17, 2010

maybealabia posted:

Can you really have a taint if you don't have an anus?

tanus

# ? Sep 18, 2023 17:26

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:

Do the aliens have taints?

Yes

e: well,.maybe

e2: actually I don't know

# ? Sep 18, 2023 17:49

luchadornado: Oct 7, 2004; A boombox is not a toy!

TEMPLE GRANDIN OS posted:

sharkleberry fin

If this is true it changes my weekend plans

# ? Sep 18, 2023 17:52

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

GABA ghoul posted:

I'm gray

# ? Sep 18, 2023 18:21

Overdog: Jul 12, 2023; by CVG
(and can't post for 10 years!)

Houle posted:

So long as we are posting weed theories mine is that quantum foam is binary and small sequences of foam act basically like the game of life . These patterns in the quantum foam essentially make up the fundamental interactions of each type of quark.

The foam also is the dark energy causing expansion because it displaces the uni of empty space rather than space overdrawing. The reason it is moving faster than the speed of light is that over time each one of those particles of quantum foam pushes spaces out in all directions which has an accumulative effect.

It's difficult to fully appreciate this because any attempt of measure or observation would be using a hammer instead of a needle to do a lumbar puncture. No matter what we do it is too bulky and causes too much disruption to what we are trying to measure due to how small and fragile each system.

Lol you sound like a real foamer. :techno:

# ? Sep 18, 2023 19:10

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Houle posted:

So long as we are posting weed theories mine is that quantum foam is binary and small sequences of foam act basically like the game of life . These patterns in the quantum foam essentially make up the fundamental interactions of each type of quark.

The foam also is the dark energy causing expansion because it displaces the uni of empty space rather than space overdrawing. The reason it is moving faster than the speed of light is that over time each one of those particles of quantum foam pushes spaces out in all directions which has an accumulative effect.

It's difficult to fully appreciate this because any attempt of measure or observation would be using a hammer instead of a needle to do a lumbar puncture. No matter what we do it is too bulky and causes too much disruption to what we are trying to measure due to how small and fragile each system.

# ? Sep 18, 2023 19:19

maybeadracula: Sep 9, 2022; by sebmojo

Houle posted:

So long as we are posting weed theories mine is that quantum foam is binary and small sequences of foam act basically like the game of life . These patterns in the quantum foam essentially make up the fundamental interactions of each type of quark.

The foam also is the dark energy causing expansion because it displaces the uni of empty space rather than space overdrawing. The reason it is moving faster than the speed of light is that over time each one of those particles of quantum foam pushes spaces out in all directions which has an accumulative effect.

It's difficult to fully appreciate this because any attempt of measure or observation would be using a hammer instead of a needle to do a lumbar puncture. No matter what we do it is too bulky and causes too much disruption to what we are trying to measure due to how small and fragile each system.

This is correct

# ? Sep 18, 2023 19:30