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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Trying to twist the arm of a company with proven rear end in a top hat leadership is at best not productive. The only reason would be if they don't want him to take his client book to a competitor. I think you're overthinking this again they're not going to care about any of that other stuff. I honestly think you're best off just making a clean break, but if for some reason you really want a package (and whoever told you they got 2 years+ or whatever is almost certainly lying or there are other factors at play) then you can pitch it to them. Usually these kinds of things are 6 months, because after that your client book gets pretty worthless. Why would they keep paying you after 18 months when all your existing deals already have new relationships? I'd also assume whatever day you do this will be your last day one way or another.
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Sep 17, 2023 17:53
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Lockback posted:(and whoever told you they got 2 years+ or whatever is almost certainly lying or there are other factors at play) then you can pitch it to them. Usually these kinds of things are 6 months, because after that your client book gets pretty worthless. Why would they keep paying you after 18 months when all your existing deals already have new relationships? I'd also assume whatever day you do this will be your last day one way or another. IIRC many (200+) people in our corporate division were offered and took the package, which was unique to each. From what I understand some were closer to 3 years (might have been a year per decade? Not sure). I definitely do not know the specifics, but am close to people who did or received offers. Supposedly they remained on some sort of payroll for X period of time, with regular monthly pay and benefits. Just not coming in to work and under a non-compete for anything remotely close to our industry for years, if ever. I just missed the eligibility at that time by a few years. I think you needed to be 50+ years old with a 15+ of employment to be given an offer. I have no idea if that's commonplace for early retirements or what as I've never been old enough to be involved. It would have cost a poo poo ton of money, but I'm guessing when someone is earmarked for retirement and not coming back, those $$$ are put in a different expense column which makes it more appealing to the shareholders, but I am not corporate accountant  One of the guys I worked with started working part time at a golf course pro shop (literally his dream job) and the other reconditioned an old bobcat/skid steer and does small casual jobs when the weather is good. AFAIK, they're both still doing that after 3-4 years now. I think tomorrow will probably play a lot out with how I feel and method of proceeding. I have a corporate meeting that I half expect to be a poo poo-fest and foaming of the mouth which will make me fresh out of fucks to give and the other company will probably get back to me wanting a meeting in the semi near future. But who knows, maybe it will be a big come to jesus meeting and change of direction and things will be OK! hahaha not a chance slidebite fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Sep 17, 2023 |
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Sep 17, 2023 21:58
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Ham Equity posted:Take everything I say about machining with a grain of salt. It's the thing that I kind of latched onto as my idealized "if I had everything to do over, this is what I would like to do," just because you actually make poo poo, and I'm at the point now where I feel like every new piece of technology just makes things worse, so having to keep up with it is a mild form of self-torture. See if I had to do everything over again I'd go for engineering, either mechanical or electrical so we all have that hindsight is 20/20 thing going on. Still haven't dived as much as I would like into my job research, a lot of current job postings don't have salaries posted. Some of the machining ones in my area give a range of $17-$35 an hour: definitely jealous of the Seattle area. I wonder if part of the issue is the state literally just signed into law like today that job postings must have the minimum and maximum pay range listed as well, maybe not everyone has complied yet?
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Sep 18, 2023 05:45
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Turbinosamente posted:See if I had to do everything over again I'd go for engineering, either mechanical or electrical so we all have that hindsight is 20/20 thing going on. Still haven't dived as much as I would like into my job research, a lot of current job postings don't have salaries posted. Some of the machining ones in my area give a range of $17-$35 an hour: definitely jealous of the Seattle area. I wonder if part of the issue is the state literally just signed into law like today that job postings must have the minimum and maximum pay range listed as well, maybe not everyone has complied yet? Carve out some time for the Resume & Interview ULTRATHREAD and some of AskAManager's posts on resumes & cover letters. A lot of this stuff is going to focus around white-collar jobs, but I think it's broadly applicable enough to be helpful. Start applying for jobs to get practice at applying for jobs. Even if you think they're going to lowball you. It's a job application, not a marriage proposal, you're free to back out at any time. Also, if you start to apply for a job and the application process is too cumbersome, just stop; you don't have to finish. This goes double for places you're not that excited about in the first place; I can't tell you how many times I saw a job I thought "huh, this pays okay and sounds like it might be decent," only to start on the application, upload my resume, then get five pages of "describe your entire work history to us" and just hit the close button on that browser tab. And yeah, even in Washington, the enforcement of the "you have to post salary ranges" is pretty lovely, and it's been around for a bit. A lot of states are passing those laws, now, though, so I think it's rapidly becoming the standard; hopefully, the companies pulling shenanigans on it are going to get poo poo on enough to stop. Be aware you are likely going to apply to waaaaaaaayyyyy more jobs than you get interviews for, and you are likely going to get interviews for way more jobs than you get offers from. It's disheartening, but a ton of rejection in the process is very normal. To get my current job, I spent a year applying, probably applied for 100-150 positions, got first interviews for a dozen, and got, like, no second interviews for most of a year, then got two second interviews in the same week, and got two offers, both for 50%+ salary increases. I also don't know if you're mostly looking on Indeed or Craigslist or whatever passes for those in the machinist world, but I would suggest going out to the websites of local and state governments, see what they have posted; public utilities are sometimes looking for machinists, too, I think? Do you have friends who work at places you might want to work? Do your friends have friends who work at places you might want to work? Have you told them you're looking? If not, why not? Start spreading the word. I've gotten two friends jobs at my place of employment. My employer also offers $1000 referral bonus (which is not uncommon), so I'm more than happy when friends ask for job referrals. Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Sep 18, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 18:29
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I kind of assumed management based on the numbers you were talking about before. In my experience (auto), it's still seniority based for management for PTO. Not unusual to do a seniority carryover/bump for management. You should ask. It's not weird. Related to asking for a seniority bump, when is the right time to? My third round interview (the biggest one, where I actually go to the plant and do a tour and talk to several people) is next week. I’ve been told there would be a quick 4th round phone interview with someone at corporate that, if the third round goes fine, is basically a formality. I wouldn’t bring up the seniority bump until after they make an offer, right? Like this isn’t something to bring up during the interview, even with they have someone from HR as part of the panel/group?
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Sep 18, 2023 18:47
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:Related to asking for a seniority bump, when is the right time to? My third round interview (the biggest one, where I actually go to the plant and do a tour and talk to several people) is next week. I’ve been told there would be a quick 4th round phone interview with someone at corporate that, if the third round goes fine, is basically a formality.
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Sep 18, 2023 18:48
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:Related to asking for a seniority bump, when is the right time to? My third round interview (the biggest one, where I actually go to the plant and do a tour and talk to several people) is next week. I’ve been told there would be a quick 4th round phone interview with someone at corporate that, if the third round goes fine, is basically a formality. You have the most leverage at point of offer. I'd go with money and use the title bump as a solution for "salary locked to level" rather than leading with title and getting the lower band at higher title.
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Sep 18, 2023 18:50
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The customary sequence of events is that the company decides they like you, they provide you with a job offer to open negotiations. It would be weird to talk offer details before receiving the offer and it would likely not work to your advantage.
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Sep 18, 2023 20:06
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Thanks, that’s what I figured but I haven’t done a job interview in well over a decade and I wanted to make sure that wasn’t something to bring up with HR during the interview.
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Sep 18, 2023 20:10
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So I'm a recent graduate of a top 20 MBA program, and spent 5 years in the Army as an officer. Before that was just blue collar work. I've got a family friend that's decently high up in a big tech company that would like to help me land a job, something she offered when I first got out of the Army too but I wanted to go to grad school first. I've also got an opportunity for a part time program management job at the university I graduated from that's in a field I'm interested in (urbanism related stuff). The pay sucks but will give me the opportunity to meet tons of people and organizations adjacent to this field. I could also pursue a second master's degree with the remainder of my GI Bill or look into some kind of freelance work for additional income. I've never been super interested in a corporate career track, I've always been more interested in finding fulfilling work or running my own business. I'm way more interested in the job at my old university, but the pay makes me hesitant. The high salary of a big tech company is attractive, but I can also see myself getting sucked in and used to the stability of such good pay and never attempting to start my own business. Tough choice between following my interests and following a high steady paycheck.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:00
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Mustang posted:So I'm a recent graduate of a top 20 MBA program, and spent 5 years in the Army as an officer. Before that was just blue collar work. Are you over 26 years old? Does the university job offer benefits?
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Sep 18, 2023 23:16
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Yeah, I'm 36 and the university (it's UW) job comes with benefits. The pay is just awful.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:19
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Mustang posted:Yeah, I'm 36 and the university (it's UW) job comes with benefits. The pay is just awful. UW (and the state in general) does a lot of hiring from internal candidates; I don't know what it's like in their planning department, but I do know that a lot of the IT jobs are only open to internal candidates (or at least it was like that a couple of years ago when I was job hunting). So, it would be a good foot in the door. What would you get your second masters in? Urban planning?
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Sep 18, 2023 23:24
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My very cynical life philosophy is work funds the personal stuff I care about. I'd get that dosh, and use it toake your life fulfilled outside work. But I understand that spending 40 hours a week in drudgery doesn't work for people too.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:24
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Ham Equity posted:If you were to start your own business, what sort of business would you be running? Some kind of planning consultancy or something? Have you ever run your own business before? What makes you think you would want to run your own business? During my MBA I actually won a pitch competition for a bike security business plan, which is something I still work on from time to time. Just don't have the money to bootstrap that idea myself yet, and definitely not interested in anything to do with a VC firm. I've already been contacted by the Director of the program at UW, and I definitely crush all the requirements for the job. But yeah urban planning and public policy are some of the things I've thought about for a second master's. With my GI Bill benefits and the UW part time job I'd be making a decently comfortable income. I had no interest whatsoever in the officer career track while I was in the Army, and I think I'll likely come to the same conclusion in a big corporation.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:42
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I'd generally suggest it's better to start with the high upside, low paying job and move over to the corp gig if it doesn't work out vs trying to do the reverse.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:45
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I often operate on a framework of minimizing regret. When I had a chance to go into consulting at the bottom rung vs take a steady, higher paying, job in the public sector, I knew that if I didn’t try out consulting I’d always wonder what if. So the question for you would be - five years from now assume whatever you choose now didn’t work out. Which one would you more regret not having tried?
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Sep 19, 2023 00:41
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There's very little upside to doing a second master's degree. If you can get it fully funded then there's a lot less downside, but it's still a big time commitment.
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Sep 19, 2023 02:23
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Corporations always want to hire ex military so you could do what you like and see what happens. I am fairly sure a better gig will be there with your credentials.
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Sep 19, 2023 02:33
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And as I said in the other thread, a little experience will go a long way for you. Your options are a bit limited right now, but with even a couple years of outside-the-military a lot more doors will open.
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Sep 19, 2023 03:07
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Think I'm going to hear what the university program has to say about the job, and also see what the family friend has to say about helping me with jobs at her big tech company. Looked up her title and the average for that position is around $400k.... way, way more money than I thought she made. Jesus. She talked to me about helping me out before I joined the Army and it sounded like she was certain she could help me land a job, and that was a few years ago. Knowing the right people definitely seems to be the best way to find a place to work.
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Sep 19, 2023 04:19
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Depending where your looking averages don't always cross over to every department, group, company, etc. And your compensation might get wrapped up into equity or stock that can't be touched every year. Just as a general rule be careful trying to count someone else's money.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:19
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In a Large Organization™, leadership changes caused my Director, with whom I have a great working relationship, move to a different area of the company. Last time she moved, I followed her and got promoted. Talked with her again, and she's okay with doing it again! Can relocate anywhere I want, is fine with some kind of compensation increase (though of course no numbers) to help convince me to move, and is okay with doing the promotion thing again (at mid-year, and only if I can have show at least decent results to help her convince the VP). Options are:
At my current level, I feel like career growth is more about influencing across teams about technical stuff, and so I'm inclined to go with the second bullet point, above, but the trade-off is that it's more of a sales/marketing role rather than an engineering role... but, isn't that a lot of what tech leadership is about? Don't know, just thinking out loud.
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Sep 19, 2023 22:40
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Tech leadership is all about managing across but that's pretty distinct from sales or marketing. The specifics vary a lot by organization, so experiences from other people elsewhere may not tell you much. IMO, if you have a boss who supports your career growth, they're worth following.
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Sep 19, 2023 23:10
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ultrafilter posted:IMO, if you have a boss who supports your career growth, they're worth following. This can't be overstated. It doesn't always work out as your boss can only do so much but knowing they will go to bat for you and knowing they already have in the OP's case is good stuff.
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Sep 20, 2023 02:02
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Seems like following your boss is the best bet short and long term. Plus you can always switch from the SE to the PM track later.
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Sep 20, 2023 02:47
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Follow the boss. Never let a good one go unless they’re the only one left standing in your way
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Sep 20, 2023 11:06
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Follow the boss. Never let a good one go unless they’re the only one left standing in your way Strike me down like a Sith Lord. I'll just go do something else, its fine.
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Sep 20, 2023 13:10
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Alright I could use advice. A massive project completed last year which was staffed internally by pulling people off their usual jobs. All those people now must re-enter the BAU world and are given priority for promotions/transfers. For context, we’re basically talking about the first move from IC to Management (though the details seem different in my industry). Because of this, I am being over-ruled for a promotion by senior management. The worst example yet just happened, where I got feedback where they stopped just short of outright stating they wanted to go with me but were told by the Chief that the organization can't not have roles for the people pulled to the project, so do the needful. In theory, they should be running out of folks from this project… I think this was the last one. But don’t know for sure. The nature of the project means that its also where a lot of the most interesting or visible/impactful work is that will look great for the rest of my career. At the same time, I'm still up for a different role. This role has its own issues, less interesting or visible work, the manager has their own negative reputation (in short: con – indecisive, passes on work to subordinates, pro - they know everyone and are personally liked, right up into the c-suite, they are pleasant to work with (the negative rep is specifically about reporting to them)). As the work is less connected to the project I’m a bit more likely to get this, but am obviously a bit less excited at the prospect. I’ve also been told by our competitor who interviewed me twice for different skip-level promotions “actually we love you but you need like 2 years in the lower role before we can justify to HR over other applicants.” My thinking right now is I don’t trust these people, I don’t have a champion high enough up in this org who is positioned to protect me from whatever whim senior management has. Maybe being here long term isn’t going to work? All this together is making me think my strategy going forward should be to go for this less interesting position, acknowledging some risks with the leader, to get the experience and then be looking to jump ship. If more opportunities internally arise, I can gauge them then. The alternative could be to pass on this promotion and wait for something internal I am more excited about, and where the work experience itself contributes more to my career. I would reconsider this strategy in 10-12 months, which feels appropriate given the level of internal postings I've seen. I’m limited to internal + main competitor because most other companies in my field are not remote and would require I relocate to a much higher COL area. Does it seem like I’ve missed anything? Anyone have experience to share in a situation like this?
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Sep 21, 2023 16:14
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Jenkl posted:Alright I could use advice. I am very confused by this paragraph. Jenkl posted:My thinking right now is I don’t trust these people, I don’t have a champion high enough up in this org who is positioned to protect me from whatever whim senior management has. Maybe being here long term isn’t going to work? This sounds like its the case though.
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Sep 21, 2023 19:37
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Sounds like these other people have more political capital and will get the better roles. If you think you're unknown (versus actively disliked or seen as not next level material) you might stick around and build some relationships. Otherwise, look for an exit if you want to progress your career.
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Sep 21, 2023 20:24
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Mustang posted:During my MBA I actually won a pitch competition for a bike security business plan, which is something I still work on from time to time. Just don't have the money to bootstrap that idea myself yet, and definitely not interested in anything to do with a VC firm. Lockback posted:I'd generally suggest it's better to start with the high upside, low paying job and move over to the corp gig if it doesn't work out vs trying to do the reverse. If your intent is to stay in the PNW then I disagree 100% with Lockback. I work in the urban planning field in the metro seattle area. I make as good a salary as plausibly could be expected for someone in my niche in the public sector at my age level. Including benefits I do make a bit less than private sector planning consultant. I have a graduate degree from a top top planning program. I cannot stress enough that you should start your career with the high compensation tech job. There are planning and policy positions within the big tech firms that you could transfer to at a later date (ex/ people at Google.Org helping jurisdictions deal with climate change and urban heat island effects). In addition, there are plenty of planning and policy related volunteer opportunities around the region too. Consider looking at neighborhood community based organizations or planning orgs like The Urbanist. Even if you 100% know that you want to end up in an urbanism related profession (public sector, non-profit, start your own business), I would still start in the tech side of things. Do you have a high income partner? Or family wealth? Because if you don’t then you will not be able to afford buying a home in the seattle metro and will eventually be displaced due to economic pressure. Unless I am dramatically underestimating the $$$ from GI benefits. Edit: Outside of the money and stress and work/life balance… planning and policy does own though. If you have the independent wealth then do it 
Ornery and Hornery fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 21, 2023 |
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Sep 21, 2023 20:40
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Your ninja edit confused me. I agree - take the corp job and get loving paid.
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Sep 21, 2023 20:57
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Money is happiness
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Sep 21, 2023 21:38
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Money is happiness Thread title?
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Sep 22, 2023 07:34
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Discendo Vox posted:Thread title? Yah this thread could use one, huh!
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Sep 22, 2023 07:57
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Once you go to a higher paying job, you aren't going to take a pay cut to follow another job as a passion. So if you want to take the higher paying job go for it, but that will almost certainly cut off ever going back into urban planning. That's what I mean by its better to do the lower paying job first. Do whatever you want but I think it's important to be honest about the fact that you'll get super used to the lifestyle of having mroe money really quickly. Ornery and Hornery posted:Money is happiness And that's why there's nothing but happy smiling faces in the tech corporate world
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Sep 22, 2023 15:27
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Lockback posted:Once you go to a higher paying job, you aren't going to take a pay cut to follow another job as a passion. So if you want to take the higher paying job go for it, but that will almost certainly cut off ever going back into urban planning. That's what I mean by its better to do the lower paying job first. Money is only happiness when you don't spend it. Tech people don't know how to not spend it.
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Sep 22, 2023 15:45
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Ornery and Hornery posted:If your intent is to stay in the PNW then I disagree 100% with Lockback. I definitely do not have the independent wealth, but the UW job is also the only one that's moved forward with the employment process so far, and the director seems pretty interested in having me. I applied for a senior program manager job for Amazon's Rapid and Rural Logistics expansion team and it by far fits my background more than any other job I've applied for. All of the duties and responsibilities directly correlate to things I did on a daily basis as a logistics officer in the Army. Spent a ton of time looking at maps doing terrain analysis for positioning logistics nodes. Also lots of autonomy and solving problems with no clear solutions while being geographically separated from my superiors. I sent an email to the family friend that's fairly high up in Amazon and for this job in particular I elaborated on why it's such a good fit for me, I'm hoping as high up as she is that her recommendation has some good pull with the hiring team even if she works in a completely different part of Amazon (tech rather than logistics). The overwhelming majority of jobs I apply for end up being at Amazon only because they have so many logistics positions, and honestly I do find logistics to be fairly interesting and rewarding work. This job in particular is one of the few corporate jobs that does excite me. I keep seeing stuff about reaching out to hiring managers and recruiters on LinkedIn but I almost never see those people listed on job postings unless they're a smaller company.
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Sep 22, 2023 17:57
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I successfully negotiated myself a 13% raise, and by “negotiated” I mean “basically staged a hostage situation.” I got my lowest-paid staff raises too. Turns out they DESPERATELY don’t want me to leave. Now I’m left to confront the fact that I don’t want to do this job anymore for any money. I am so loving tired. The director is finally taking us seriously about how overworked and exhausted the supervisors and managers are, but I’m too burnt out to think straight. I have a gently caress ton of applicable skills in all sorts of fields but LITERALLY no idea how to even find jobs to apply to. I feel like I’m gonna have to quit, spend a month or so living off my 200hrs of vacation time I can’t use while working because I can’t handle the recovery period when I come back after missing even two days in a row, and maybe take a short term job working as a bedside nurse while I figure out what the gently caress to do next. I do not want to be a nurse manager. I want to work remotely and make systems and run projects and be able to get ahead sometimes.
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Sep 27, 2023 02:45
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