|
Two T-6s went down during the gold race at reno. jesus christ
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 16:07 |
|
|
Was it that doctor? E: free 5th gen fighter if you can find it https://twitter.com/teamcharleston/status/1703523385475534968?s=46&t=bFX0HIrDCYPMRKYtgegW3Q Warbird fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Sep 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
That poster said the doctor has a P51, so probably not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 00:49
|
|
|
Warbird posted:E: free 5th gen fighter if you can find it Buncha folks walking around the forest clicking the F-35's key fob.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 00:59
|
|
|
Spaced God posted:Two T-6s went down during the gold race at reno. jesus christ I saw it happen, and unfortunately, it's the second time I've seen a fatal accident here in as many years. The race was actually done, and the collision was between the first and second place finishers as they were on base/final to land. I assume it was a case of T-6's having large blind spots (one went down with the tail missing, so it was likely hit from behind/above), combined with someone losing track of where the other airplane was. The organizers held a meeting with the three classes that hadn't yet raced to see if anyone wanted to continue, but I saw a lot of the pilots walk out really early, so most of the meeting was probably figuring out if they could salvage something, and then writing the statement when they couldn't. azflyboy fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Sep 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 01:26
|
|
|
That’s why I stopped going to air shows. It would likely only be a matter of time and I don’t think I could stand to be around it again if I saw it happen. Had a guy have to have a cutaway whole skydiving and a midair prop/tail strike that they were able to land safely in the same show and decided that I was quitting while ahead.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 03:52
|
|
|
I know the Reno Air Racing Association is trying to find a new place to race, but after this, I doubt they'll find one. That's probably for the best.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 04:06
|
|
|
Dr.Smasher posted:I know the Reno Air Racing Association is trying to find a new place to race, but after this, I doubt they'll find one. That's probably for the best. Pretty sure Texas and/or Florida wouldn't mind potential fatalities. Or pretty much any state with a NASCAR track.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
I go into Reno with the mindset that I'll probably see at least one accident (I've been going about 10 years, and maybe one didn't have an airplane get totalled), but there's enough safeguards in place that it's usually something like a ground loop, fender bender on the runway, or a forced landing after an engine failure, where the worst injury is a broken hand or something. This one kind of hit harder than last year, since it happened during what's supposed to be the safe part of the race, and I'd actually talked to some of the crew of one of the accident airplanes in the hotel this weekend, and they're all super close.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 04:14
|
|
|
At the risk of sounding like a Hacker News shitrobot... What constitutes reasonable risk? I don't know much about the individual situations of air racing pilots but I'm going to hazard a guess that nobody is placing any pressure on their livelihoods to perform in these races. Like I doubt that the boomer neurosurgeon mentioned upthread was being coerced by some notional boss to take part. Air racing is a risky activity, and it's not an entirely risk free spectator activity either, both physically and psychologically in the sense that you might see somebody die in front of your very eyes. Even flying GA aircraft is a bit too much risk for my cowardly levels of risk tolerance, for instance. Ferry pilots seem insane too, it's pretty wild to me that the FAA says sure, you can fly a single-engine naturally-aspirated gravity-fed piston aircraft with some dodgy fuel tanks welded into it, single pilot, for so long in a sitting that you end up deep into the realm of fatigue-impaired decision making, across 3000 miles of open water if you want to. The only person who will be killed by your stupidity is you, and you are a mentally-competent adult who has the right to determine their own risk tolerance. Just bring an HF radio with you and get clearance from oceanic control, have fun. On the other hand if fatalities are happening more years than not then it's an unreasonably risky event that needs to be shut down.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 04:22
|
|
|
Dr.Smasher posted:I know the Reno Air Racing Association is trying to find a new place to race, but after this, I doubt they'll find one. That's probably for the best. They actually had representatives from the six sites that had sent in RFP's in the crowd today (RARA wanted to make sure they knew what the event was really like), so this may change a mind or two. From what I saw of the crash, it wasn't anything specific to Reno (it could have happened at any non-towered airport), and the event is worth a huge amount of money ($75-100 million a year) to the local area, so I'd be very surprised if the bids all go away. I think the limiting factor is going to be insurance and sponsors, since Reno was stupidly expensive to insure *before* the last two years, and obviously this won't help. Reno had also lost their title sponsor last year (Stihl didn't renew the contract), and had the races continued here, they would have run into financial issues sooner than later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 04:23
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:What constitutes reasonable risk? I don't know much about the individual situations of air racing pilots but I'm going to hazard a guess that nobody is placing any pressure on their livelihoods to perform in these races. No one races at Reno for the money. At best, a team might break even, but most of them likely lose money racing, so the pilots and teams are here because they love what they do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 04:27
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:At the risk of sounding like a Hacker News shitrobot... It just seems unreasonably risky to me. You look at formula one, where you have fragile race cars driving very close together at speeds of 1-200 mph. If something goes wrong, the driver is encased in a carbon fiber bathtub designed to absorb and displace massive amounts of energy to keep the forces away from the driver. That bathtub is likely sliding towards a wall that has been determined to be likely be crashed into, so it has energy absorbing barriers attached to it to even further lessen the impact on the driver. They've engineered it down to even massive crashes meaning the driver is facing a sore back and some bruising the next day. Maybe a broken wrist or fingers if they didn't let go of the steering wheel before crashing. You make a mistake and the worst consequence is that you slide into a wall and lose the race. The major exceptions in the last 10 years being a few years ago where Grosjean crashed in such a weird way that he ended up hitting a part of the wall that no one expected and he ended up inside the fence, was trapped in the car for a bit, but the worst he suffered was some burns and now he's fine and calls himself the phoenix. The other exception is Bianchi who died because there was a crane moving a car on the side of the track and he was going too fast and slid off the track and into the crane. The chassis of the crane just happened to be at the right height to hit his helmet as his car slid under. And now you look at these air races where these people are flying planes that are 60-90 years old, at least twice the speeds of F1, and the consequence of a mistake is that you uncontrollably crash into the ground. I thought it would be tough just to insure air shows with warbirds after that crash a while ago. I have no idea how one would insure these kinds of races when accidents like this happen. And especially when you can apparently just join these races by being a rich dipshit who doesn't have the skills to do it. I think to keep these races going, you'd have to massively crack down on who can participate, and what is being flown. Though it seems like not even that would have prevented this crash that was just them flying back to the runway. Maybe better procedures to make sure that all the planes are sufficiently separated when the race ends.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 04:43
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:
The neurosurgeon had successfully passed the required pylon racing school (so the basic skill set was apparently there), and there were rumors he'd been forced to get someone else to fly his airplane today, although that race never happened. They actually banned a pilot for dangerous flying last year, and I think had this year ended normally, the doctor stood a very good chance of being told he was no longer welcome. After the 2011 crash (where an airplane went into the crowd), Reno and the FAA established a pretty strict set of criteria for inspections of airplanes that race, and to my knowledge, they haven't had a single accident caused by a structural failure since then, although there's obviously been multiple blown engines. There's well established procedures for the recovery in place (unless you have a problem that requires an immediate landing, you finish the race, pull up from the course, and then enter the landing pattern in the order you finished), so this seems like it was largely a combination of absolutely poo poo luck and maybe a weak spot in the recovery procedure.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 05:01
|
|
|
gently caress. The closest I've ever been to an airshow accident was a bunch of years ago at Oshkosh when my Dad and I admired a beautiful P-51A with mint-green wings, and the next day (when we weren't there) it crashed while attempting a formation landing with another Mustang, killing the pilot. I'm not inlining any photos or video of the incident but they're easily google-able. (And horrible.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 05:23
|
|
|
Fresh video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sLCi5b312A
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 08:55
|
|
|
The free F-35 plot thickens: https://twitter.com/funkeractual/status/1703549389430555057
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 12:51
|
|
|
Maybe the loyal wingman program is farther along than we thought. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 13:16
|
|
|
Warbird posted:The free F-35 plot thickens:
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 13:33
|
|
|
Maybe our AI autopilot overlords are agressive pacifist, and the AI rebellion will be to destroy our weapons and finger wagingly insist we get along instead
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 13:35
|
|
|
Flying itself to Cuba.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 14:00
|
|
|
Related http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/09/tomcat-deep/ (No idea why he didn't pull the engine fire cutoff handles)
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 14:00
|
|
|
azflyboy posted:There's a chance there's some specialized tools or equipment required to disassemble or move the airplane, and the Russian forgot to steal those, so this is their "best" option. Aeronautical Insanity: if it goes wrong, blame it on the Ukrainian Jewish Nazis
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 15:49
|
|
|
Sort of a Reno trip report: My son and I attended the Reno races over the weekend, having never attended the event before. My teenaged son has been obsessed with everything aeronautic for around 2 years, now, with a focus on plane spotting / photography. It's been a lot of fun having his newly-discovered obsession rekindle my own interest in planes that has been shoved into the back of my brain over the last couple of decades. Hitting the local airports and airshows to take photos and nerd out over planes is such an awesome father/son bonding experience, and it's helped bring us closer and enable conversation during the weird age he's in. I decided to fly us to Reno for his 15th birthday, and we were there Thursday-Saturday. The racing itself was not as "intense" as I'd expected, but I don't know what else you can do with planes flying in a circle in front you, Nascar-style. As a P51D fanatic, it was unbelievably amazing to see so many flying together at the same time. It felt like a Mustang convention at times. We have been members of the Palm Springs Air Museum for well over a decade, back before my son was interested in planes at all, and it was awesome to have so many planes there, and RACING no less, from our "spot." Seeing Bunny and Pretty Polly (My favorite P51 and his favorite plane, a P63) racing each other was unreal. We also got to catch up with some of the PSAM employees and volunteers that we know well, which was a treat. The air show components were definitely not at the level of actual air shows. The A10 demos were probably the closest to the quality of demo we've seen elsewhere, but the rest was a bit muted. Seeing F15s was AWESOME, but the demo itself was basically just some flybys. The U2 flyover was a rare treat but it was literally just a single flyby. Leaving was tough, as we knew we got a taste of this event right at the end, with no hope of a repeat of the classic experience. Add to that the news from yesterday, and I'm left with mixed emotions. My son was the one who first saw the news of the T6 crash, and he's still processing it. He very quickly develops parasocial connections and he definitely felt that way about Rushing and Macy. We knew this was a possibility and we had discussed it prior to the trip, but I'd hoped we made it through without an accident. In a way, we sort of did, and I'm extremely glad it at least happened after we'd left. At the end of the day we had an incredible experience, and between the two of us we took well over 10,000 photographs. Enjoy some low-quality photos. My son had the good camera (and skill).        (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 15:51
|
|
|
Warbird posted:Was it that doctor? Has anyone checked the War Thunder forums?
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 16:16
|
|
|
Warbird posted:Was it that doctor? I thought at first this was a part of a fighter jet competition. I flew out of Savannah last week, and waiting for my flight I saw an F5, a couple F15s, a couple F16s, a couple F35s, and like 5 F22s take off. I think that was the first time I ever saw an F22 in person. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 16:55
|
|
|
Salami Surgeon posted:I thought at first this was a part of a fighter jet competition. I flew out of Savannah last week, and waiting for my flight I saw an F5, a couple F15s, a couple F16s, a couple F35s, and like 5 F22s take off. I think that was the first time I ever saw an F22 in person. It’s an automatic 
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2023 17:11
|
|
|
azflyboy posted:I go into Reno with the mindset that I'll probably see at least one accident (I've been going about 10 years, and maybe one didn't have an airplane get totalled), but there's enough safeguards in place that it's usually something like a ground loop, fender bender on the runway, or a forced landing after an engine failure, where the worst injury is a broken hand or something. I didn’t see them collide but I did watch them both lawn dart. Can’t say it will be my fondest memory of Reno. I was talking with my buddy who was flying the p-40 and he said the entire Macy family was there - kids, grandkids, etc. - so they all had to watch it happen. I can’t imagine riding that emotional rollercoaster - yay we won to an absolute nightmare scenario. We all hear the old saw about dying doing what he loved but this seems particularly sad and senseless. Dying screaming the whole way down because you lost separation with another plane seems like way less fun than going out in a blaze of glory jockeying for the last few tenths of a mph in the final race of the final event of a 60 year competition. Poor bastards.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 00:36
|
|
|
The found the debris field for that F-35. I’m just as disappointed as you are.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 02:00
|
|
|
No, Daddy said the F35 went to live on a nice farm upstate. Where it can fly and be free!
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 03:51
|
|
|
I've got it: A-10 Racing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 04:47
|
|
|
An-2s with big foam bumpers on the wingtips Actually changing my answer, An-2s but it’s velodrome sprint style where you spend the first part of the race trying to go as slow as possible and psych your competitors out before the dash for the finish
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 05:22
|
|
|
I would blow Dane Cook posted:I've got it: A-10 Racing. Ironically, one of the last things they did at Reno was let the A-10 demo pilot do a lap around the course, which was pretty cool to see. Earlier in the week, they let a C-17 do the same thing, and I presume they'd have allowed the F-18 demo pilot to do so as well, had they flown Sunday. HookedOnChthonics posted:Actually changing my answer, An-2s but it’s velodrome sprint style where you spend the first part of the race trying to go as slow as possible and psych your competitors out before the dash for the finish I'm a bit surprised no one has tried entering an AN-2 in a STOL competition for shits and giggles (seeing one doing STOL drag racing would be spectacular), but my understanding is that the FAA puts enough restrictions on N-numbered AN-2's that there's no way that could happen. azflyboy fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Sep 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 05:30
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Eve6/status/1703914143181652272
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 07:08
|
|
|
RacistsSuck posted:his favorite plane, a P63 The kid has taste. Good dad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 07:52
|
|
|
Regarding this fatal Reno collision, I dunno poo poo about butts, so maybe there's a good answer for this and I'm ignorant of it. But why the hell were they so close to each other? Is there no controller and spotters handling approach?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 07:58
|
|
|
Wombot posted:Regarding this fatal Reno collision, I dunno poo poo about butts, so maybe there's a good answer for this and I'm ignorant of it. But why the hell were they so close to each other? Is there no controller and spotters handling approach? I don't think there's enough public info for anyone in this thread to answer "why?" in a real way. From what I understand the races had plenty of procedures for deconfliction, a controller, a traffic pattern, radio comms, and so on. Investigators are going to have to look at plan, training, and in-the-moment execution to figure out what happened here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 10:41
|
|
|
I would blow Dane Cook posted:I've got it: A-10 Racing. Take out the cannon, put a filthy huge camera system in front of the ballast, livestream the races to IMAX theaters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 14:36
|
|
|
BobHoward posted:I don't think there's enough public info for anyone in this thread to answer "why?" in a real way. One quick note from Reno this year. On Friday they were constantly having radio problems, and the announcements kept coming back to “if you have a radio please check to make sure you aren’t sitting on it” followed by a few seconds of static. Happened a bit on Saturday as well, but that happened nearly throughout the day on Friday.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 14:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 16:07 |
|
|
RacistsSuck posted:One quick note from Reno this year. On Friday they were constantly having radio problems, and the announcements kept coming back to “if you have a radio please check to make sure you aren’t sitting on it” followed by a few seconds of static. Happened a bit on Saturday as well, but that happened nearly throughout the day on Friday. Such dedicated race planes should probably use some modern not-stupid radio system during the races.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2023 14:53
|
|
