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moths posted:There's still a Hunter 20th sized hole on my shelf, but it somehow got a shiny 5th edition. Without the Imbued I have had no interest in the last few Hunter games. I am sure it is partly nostalgia of course, but all the big crazy conspiracies in the CoD games just felt like desperation to add some flavor to just regular dudes fighting monsters. And then just moving to regular dudes with nothing didn't do anything for me either. The Imbued having an incredibly high cost to their powers, in a world where people can't understand what they believe, was such a great hook.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:40
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moths posted:There's still a Hunter 20th sized hole on my shelf, but it somehow got a shiny 5th edition. Not unlike Kindred of the East it probably would take too much effort to revamp, which is why Hunter 5E is so bland (see also Werewolf 5E) because they removed the problematic stuff but didn't have any idea what to slot in in their places. Also the obnoxious focus on local games. Hunter did technically deserve a 20th anniversary since by market research it was the line with the most recognition, thanks to the PS/X-Box games.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:02
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I still think making Hunters their own type of supernatural was dramatically overthinking it when most people I know just wanted to do Supernatural or X-files in WoD. Blade and Hellboy, too, if you wanna be spicy.
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Sep 19, 2023 22:22
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Which is what Hunter: The Vigil did. But that had it's own issues with the three tiers and all the splats.
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Sep 19, 2023 22:27
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Capfalcon posted:I still think making Hunters their own type of supernatural was dramatically overthinking it when most people I know just wanted to do Supernatural or X-files in WoD. Blade and Hellboy, too, if you wanna be spicy. Those already existed in the WoD, they were broadly called "Witch Hunters" and were hunters of various supernatural things. The Imbued were essentially the WoD universe going "gently caress it, we need to fix this poo poo one way or another" and powering up random mortals to go forth and kill the monsters. Then the world ended because they'd been talking about it literally since the games were released. Reckoning 5e is essentially "Hunters Hunted" spun out into it's own game that also acknowledges that various government agencies are also out hunting monsters and probably aren't your friends even if you're both out trying to kill Count Dipshit.
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Sep 19, 2023 22:40
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joylessdivision posted:Reckoning 5e is essentially "Hunters Hunted" spun out into it's own game that also acknowledges that various government agencies are also out hunting monsters and probably aren't your friends even if you're both out trying to kill Count Dipshit. Oddly 5E is what some folks claimed they wanted out of Reckoning originally, which was Hunters Hunted Revised even if you had current rules to play the Society of Leopold or whatever already. Now nobody's happy! Ha ha!
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Sep 19, 2023 23:57
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Dawgstar posted:Oddly 5E is what some folks claimed they wanted out of Reckoning originally, which was Hunters Hunted Revised even if you had current rules to play the Society of Leopold or whatever already. Now nobody's happy! Ha ha! To call the WoD fandom a "Contentious lot" is putting it mildly.
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Sep 20, 2023 00:29
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So did a ton of OPP people just leave? Were thdy undershooting their kickstarters?
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Sep 20, 2023 00:40
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I think this thread is catastrophizing a pretty mundane situation with Onyx Path/CoD where they just don't have the resources or recognition to carry on the success typically associated with the properties they handle. Most people don't know or give a poo poo about how terrible Beast is or that the art isn't great in some supplements to a game that didn't even get a regular retail release for its core book. As successful as many of the Kickstarters have been, they have likely been the bulk of whatever audience there is for these games, owed in part to the tiny advertising budget and reach for them and nearly complete lack of retail release. Any decline going on is just sort of some boring withering away of IPs, mostly noticed in online spaces which remain the principal place they're even noticed, as the best known of their projects fade into the past because Paradox doesn't remember or actively chooses to let them fall into disuse. They seem perfectly capable of being a mid-level outfit pushing out a somewhat steady stream of books for other stuff that still pulls in very respectable crowdfunding dollars. At this point I think it's pretty bizarre to act like anything more should be or should have been expected of them if you've been paying any attention.
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Sep 20, 2023 00:52
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To be clear, I'm catastrophizing pretty much entirely because I've been into White Wolf/Onyx Path for most of my time as an RPG nerd and the past few years have been the story of them proving they can't reliably make books I actually want to read. The general decline of CofD book quality, and Scion going from something my internet friends are excited about to something internet friends were writing for to something my internet friends are just done with. Yeah, it's declining in the exact way you'd expect from a company in their position. But it's a company I care about, so it's personally depressing.
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Sep 20, 2023 02:00
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That Old Tree posted:I think this thread is catastrophizing a pretty mundane situation with Onyx Path/CoD where they just don't have the resources or recognition to carry on the success typically associated with the properties they handle. Most people don't know or give a poo poo about how terrible Beast is or that the art isn't great in some supplements to a game that didn't even get a regular retail release for its core book. As successful as many of the Kickstarters have been, they have likely been the bulk of whatever audience there is for these games, owed in part to the tiny advertising budget and reach for them and nearly complete lack of retail release. Any decline going on is just sort of some boring withering away of IPs, mostly noticed in online spaces which remain the principal place they're even noticed, as the best known of their projects fade into the past because Paradox doesn't remember or actively chooses to let them fall into disuse. They seem perfectly capable of being a mid-level outfit pushing out a somewhat steady stream of books for other stuff that still pulls in very respectable crowdfunding dollars. At this point I think it's pretty bizarre to act like anything more should be or should have been expected of them if you've been paying any attention. I somewhat agree with you that most of the explanations just posted don't really line up with the reality that nobody who is not terminally online actually knows about any of the controversies that people have been mentioning. Not a single real live human that I've gamed with has heard of Beast, much less all the poo poo surrounding it. I've posted about this in the WoD thread, but I'm lucky if my gaming friends are aware that there is a Vampire game besides VtM, much less that there is an entire system out there called Chronicles of Darkness. My curiosity about Onyx Path is more centered around me being genuinely confused about what their deal is since it seems like they are allergic to actually advertising their games. I posted about this in the WoD thread right before Hunter 2e was released, but as someone who has not followed nWoD since like 2010, I could not figure out where I was supposed to buy new content when I searched Google. When goons finally pointed me to OPP I was really surprised at how badly organized their website was. Like, go check out that website. Show me where a list of products they sell is. If you click on "World of Darkness" or "Chronicles of Darkness" you get linked to blog posts on that topic. Those posts might link to DTRPG for a single product, but there is no easy list of everything they sell in that product line. Looking at their media production. They apparently release all of their media on Twitch, which is not really that bad, but their Twitch channel is locked to subscriber only to view their videos. So again, you have to be actively looking for this poo poo to actually stumble upon it. I guess they have a Youtube channel, but it appears it's just stuff posted on their Twitch channel several weeks earlier and with anywhere from 8-200 views total. The videos usually aren't really high production value, and it seems like almost all their Youtube presence is a random dude named Corbin, who doesn't even work for the company, and whose videos consist of a guy copying and pasting stuff from the pdfs into a PowerPoint and talking for 8 minutes before begging for tips or Patreon subs and then signing off. What I've been trying to figure out, is what the actual management strategy of the company is. It's mostly just a morbid curiosity, since it seems like every single person that talks about the company is a "freelancer" and nobody actually ever talks about the permanent members of the actual management. Does it have real employees? It's just so weird. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 16:14
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If the average tradgame joe on the street hasn't heard about Beast than they probably haven't heard of most of the onyx path stuff, which is itself a problem. But personally I used to invest in OPP kickstarters more or less sight unseen but got burned, hard, on Beast. And kind of checked out after that.Anonymous Zebra posted:What I've been trying to figure out, is what the actual management strategy of the company is. It's mostly just a morbid curiosity, since it seems like every single person that talks about the company is a "freelancer" and nobody actually ever talks about the permanent members of the actual management. Does it have real employees? It's just so weird. The only actual real employee is Rich, i believe. Everyone else is a freelancer. Because OPP was mostly created to license the rights to the books from CCP while most of those people were still employed at CCP.
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Sep 20, 2023 16:24
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Yeah, the reputational damage is more the 'long time fan and reliable backer' crowd that Beast did a number on. Its a small company with a shockingly slim presence for its titles, reliant largely on a dedicated and eager community who'll buy just about anything they put out... Then they release a game that alienates a good chunk of that community, either to the extent of just walking away or being much more selective in what they back. They're less inclined to tell their friends, so the word of mouth you want if you're aiming at a small and dedicated base also slows down. It'd be a different story if it was the hot name on everyone's lips, but it isn't - so each hit fucks them up, and 'here is abuse apology: the game, as authored by a sex criminal' is a pretty big hit to tank even if you're a giant.
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Sep 20, 2023 16:29
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I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but what's Beast? All I know about the newer World of Darkness stuff was that there were some blatant white supremacist dogwhistles in one of the (prerelease?) documents, and that there are board games that use the Vampire name and setting that don't seem to be associated with Paradox or Onyx?
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Sep 20, 2023 17:01
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Randalor posted:I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but what's Beast? All I know about the newer World of Darkness stuff was that there were some blatant white supremacist dogwhistles in one of the (prerelease?) documents, and that there are board games that use the Vampire name and setting that don't seem to be associated with Paradox or Onyx? Haha. I'm not directly laughing at you, but your question kind of proves my point when it comes to the publicity of CofD. I once made a post in the WoD thread about trying to describe the difference between WoD, nWoD, CodD, and WoD5e. To answer your question, you are thinking about the WoD 5e release of Vampire: The Masquerade
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Sep 20, 2023 17:04
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And Beast is a product of CoD.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:08
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Randalor posted:I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but what's Beast? All I know about the newer World of Darkness stuff was that there were some blatant white supremacist dogwhistles in one of the (prerelease?) documents, and that there are board games that use the Vampire name and setting that don't seem to be associated with Paradox or Onyx? Matthew McFarland is a former developer and lead dev on a number of Chronicles of Darkness books -- Demon, Promethean, and Beast most notably. Beast is a game about playing humans who have some kind of ancient archetypal monster in place of their soul (a dragon being the initial inspiration) who are hunted by Heroes, basically regular human victims who are transformed by contact with Beasts into obsessive avengers. Beast is, on its face, a really thematically incoherent and ugly game; the premise and basic game loop is "you exist to terrify and abuse people in order to teach them lessons about proper behavior, which inevitably leads to retaliation which you then have to deal with." The book presents this as justified, although later supplements apparently dial it back a bit and try to redefine the intent as "Beasts think they're justified but it's all diegetic and they're really not." So people who were expecting a game about playing Grendel or Fafnir or something got a weird, almost unplayably unpleasant book about roleplaying as abuse elementals, which even if it weren't presented in such an unpalatable way would be redundant with Vampire. And then it came out that McFarland raped a minor and his wife helped cover it up, which besides being horrifying by itself makes Beast look like a confession.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:16
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The scandal also pretty much tanked the new edition of Chill that the McFarlands were working on. I don't know how well the line was selling, but I'm assuming that put the quietus on any further development.Anonymous Zebra posted:I somewhat agree with you that most of the explanations just posted don't really line up with the reality that nobody who is not terminally online actually knows about any of the controversies that people have been mentioning. Not a single real live human that I've gamed with has heard of Beast, much less all the poo poo surrounding it. I've posted about this in the WoD thread, but I'm lucky if my gaming friends are aware that there is a Vampire game besides VtM, much less that there is an entire system out there called Chronicles of Darkness. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 17:28
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Randalor posted:I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but what's Beast? All I know about the newer World of Darkness stuff was that there were some blatant white supremacist dogwhistles in one of the (prerelease?) documents, and that there are board games that use the Vampire name and setting that don't seem to be associated with Paradox or Onyx? So. The Nazi dogwhistle prerelease stuff is from the fifth edition of Vampire: The Masquerade, which happened when Paradox bought the rights for the old World of Darkness (VtM, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, etc). That is now just called the World of Darkness because it's getting new content that isn't nostalgia rereleases, and it got off to a really bad start because the lead was a horrible edgelord (hence the Nazi dogwhistles and causing an international incident when a book implied the Chechen gay purges were just a vampiric distraction) but is basically fine now. Beast is from Onyx Path, which is basically all the freelancers who wrote for White Wolf during the New World of Darkness (Vampire: The Requiem, Werewolf: The Forsaken, Mage: The Awakening, etc) period. nWoD because Chronicles of Darkness after Paradox bought the license. Beast is one of their kickstarted new games which had a lot of good will before release because the project lead was Matt McFarland, who was also the project lead for a really good game line that was released in the weird period between nWoD and CofD. And Beast was... really bad. "Your characters are pretty much just abusive assholes, and the game leans really hard into queer metaphors that just imply that queer people are innately abusive" bad. Bad enough that they had to rip out a lot of fluff between the kickstarter and the final release to try and salvage it, and it's still really bad. And then some sexual abuse allegations came out about Matt McFarland. And that both made things click and made things worse. Like people said before, this didn't really become news outside their core fandom, but it had two big effects. One, their core fan base lost a lot of faith that they would definitely make good products. This was already waning because books like Mummy were bad, but Mummy was bad in a "mediocre oWoD throwback" way. Beast was bad in a "do not have this book on your shelf" way. Two, it made people notice that Onyx Path was running out of writers from the nWoD days that people would trust. I think there were about... two people working with Onyx Path at the time who I would have trusted to be a good project lead, and both of them are no longer working with OP. The people who have stepped up to replace them haven't exactly put out good books (see: how this conversation started by someone saying they looked at Hunter: The Vigil 2e and it was kind of bad), so even if they did make more CofD there isn't really any reason to think it will be good until you read the drafts.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:38
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So... the recent non-RPG stuff (video games, board games, ccg) is free of all that horrible bullshit? It's still okay to enjoy the Vampire setting stuff that (as far as I can tell) doesn't have anything to do with Onyx Path or the edgelord behind 5th Ed Vampire? Or did their bullshit leak into that content and the whole well is poisoned?
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Sep 20, 2023 17:47
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Randalor posted:So... the recent non-RPG stuff (video games, board games, ccg) is free of all that horrible bullshit? It's still okay to enjoy the Vampire setting stuff that (as far as I can tell) doesn't have anything to do with Onyx Path or the edgelord behind 5th Ed Vampire? Or did their bullshit leak into that content and the whole well is poisoned? It's connected in the sense that Paradox own the rights and are licensing them out, but basically. Paradox backed off really hard from having direct involvement after the Chechnya thing, which on one hand is a shame because they could invest more into it but on the other hand is good because they're the ones who decided an edgelord Swedish larper should be in charge in the first place. (Well, there's one piece of interactive fiction made during those early days you should avoid because enemy of the thread Zak S was involved in writing it, but you probably weren't looking at that one anyway.)
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Sep 20, 2023 17:53
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The real grime of Beast was evident in the vignettes. The iconic heroes were a school kid bullied into a public (supernatural) killing, a woman who poisoned kids' Halloween candy, and a sinister cab driver who dropped people off in the wrong neighborhood. The cab driver seems inconvenient outside the context of having been written in the shadow of the Trayvon Martin killing. Like, these were absolutely wretched protagonists and the book's justification was that the victims had it coming. There were also really cool enemy heroes, like a coma-bound young woman who fought extra dimensionally to kill Beasts. She was bad (boo her please) because she wants to end abuse golems like the ones you played. There was also an example of play where the ST sees that a player is visibly uncomfortable and doubles down on some triggering narration. This is provided as an example of good storytelling. The whole thing was vile, and not from a pearl-clutching at the edginess perspective. Like, I loved Freak Legion. That was a gory edgy game where you play GWAR monsters and do terrible things. But it accepted the premise that you were playing bad guys. Slasher was a system where you play Leatherfaces and Jasons and have edgy Munsters family adventure. Which was dopey but you're obviously villains. Then Beast had you victimizing innocent people for its own sake, and explicitly told you that it was Good and even necessary.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:55
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So the recent stuff should be safe to touch and Paradox is actually paying attention now? That's a relief to hear. Edit: quote:Like, these were absolutely wretched protagonists and the book's justification was that the victims had it coming. quote:The iconic heroes were...a woman who poisoned kids' Halloween candy... ... WHAT THE gently caress? 
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Sep 20, 2023 17:56
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The new VtM is perfectly fine if you want to play that game. The books seem to have production values, appear in stores, and are still actively being produced. Hunter 5e, the production quality is there, but the actual game seems shallow and uninteresting. I think the big issue people are dancing around here is that being a successful table-top RPG publishing company is kind of hard and requires a deep bench of experienced people to run things and teach new people how to run things. When White Wolf died, a lot of those people scattered to the wind and never came back. This seems to be a problem in a lot of indie companies as I've noticed a lot more typographical, formatting, a grammatical mistakes over the last 5 years than I've ever seen in books I bought in the early 2000's. It really feels like the big companies are now holding all the talent, and lots of these indie companies are just amateurs who feel like they have a good system but don't know how to actually professionally run a company.
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Sep 20, 2023 17:58
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moths posted:The real grime of Beast was evident in the vignettes. The iconic heroes were a school kid bullied into a public (supernatural) killing, a woman who poisoned kids' Halloween candy, and a sinister cab driver who dropped people off in the wrong neighborhood. So basically you are the unrepentant, irredeemable villain who represents some serious societal ill (sexual abuse, drug addiction, mental illness, childhood trauma) from a modern horror movie? Not sure anyone needed to be the creature from Smile or It Follows.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:05
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Name Change posted:So basically you are the unrepentant, irredeemable villain who represents some serious societal ill (sexual abuse, drug addiction, mental illness, childhood trauma) from a modern horror movie? Not sure anyone needed to be the creature from Smile or It Follows. Yes. And also that it's somehow good for people because they need to "learn a lesson," and appropriating the language of marginalized groups to try to seem like the good guy getting bullied but really just affirming that those groups are predators.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:12
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Name Change posted:So basically you are the unrepentant, irredeemable villain who represents some serious societal ill (sexual abuse, drug addiction, mental illness, childhood trauma) from a modern horror movie? Not sure anyone needed to be the creature from Smile or It Follows. A key difference is that in It Follows the creature is basically a blank canvas to project onto and you have the characters be the characters. Beast had this weird thing about urban legends in it too, like one Beast was a little old lady who put razers into candy but thr mechanics of the game don't back up the weird telephone games of misinformation and suburban paranoia that fostered those kind of fantasies. Beast just sucks on pretty much every level.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:13
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Lurks With Wolves posted:To be clear, I'm catastrophizing pretty much entirely because I've been into White Wolf/Onyx Path for most of my time as an RPG nerd and the past few years have been the story of them proving they can't reliably make books I actually want to read. The general decline of CofD book quality, and Scion going from something my internet friends are excited about to something internet friends were writing for to something my internet friends are just done with. Yeah, it's declining in the exact way you'd expect from a company in their position. But it's a company I care about, so it's personally depressing. Yeah, I don't think it's catastrophizing to point out that in many ways the quality of Onyx Path books has been declining for years and things like editing, layout, and art quality varies from bad to wretched (with only a few exceptions). Their books just look amazingly cheap when compared to something from a company like Chaosium, which is comparable in size but manages to put out extremely professional-looking books with great art. Hell, I've done better myself. It's a fake business model that relies on exploiting freelancers who are willing to work for beer money if it gives them the chance to be "real professionals" and work on a beloved IP.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:13
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There was a long form review of Beast a few years ago, links to the archive here: https://writeups.letsyouandhimfight.com/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/ https://writeups.letsyouandhimfight.com/kurieg/beast-night-horrors-conquering-heroes/ https://writeups.letsyouandhimfight.com/kurieg/beast-the-primordial-players-guide/
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Sep 20, 2023 18:19
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Jesus, yeah. I forgot about stealing all the queer coding. It was like trying to put abusers on the pride flag because they're also born that way. 
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Sep 20, 2023 18:20
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Randalor posted:So the recent stuff should be safe to touch and Paradox is actually paying attention now? That's a relief to hear. Yeah, 5e WoD has come a long way since the gross poo poo days of Swedradcula making GBS threads everything up with dog whistles and such. Opinions about the actual games will vary of course, but generally speaking, the 5e stuff has been considerably better about how it's presents things, and with Renegade publishing the books things have *mostly* released on time in relation to when they say it'll come out. I say mostly because there have been some major delays with some of the books, namely the upcoming blood magic book for V5 having an initial release date of I want to say August or early September, which has since been pushed to an early October release date for the PDF. Not to mention the $200 super fancy Book of Nod set that was announced like two years ago and is still MIA as far as I know. But Renegade has been good about the physical quality of the books and their dice have been really nice too, especially compared to the Modipheous dice that were released originally. And if you're looking to keep up with the goings on of the franchise, the WoD Youtube channel posts their twitch news show every week a day or two after it airs on twitch so that's usually the best way to see what's coming up.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:27
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Randalor posted:what's Beast? Beast the primordial is, on it's face, a game about playing an embodiment of ancient fear meant to teach people lessons. It's protagonists are presented by the text as 100% correct and justified and coded as Queer like.. 75% of the time. The Antagonists of the game were soccer moms and conservatives and pick up artists and basically everything that springs to mind when you hear "MAGA". It was very, very, reliant on you sticking to your knee jerk reaction of "Oh yeah I hate those guys and I love those guys so clearly I'm on the side of the queer folk." The problem is that if you actually engage with the text it's a soccer mom angry at the gays because the gays are actually eating children. It's also a deeply uncomfortable book because it's ultimately a game about violation. Beasts only feed when they cause someone to take a hit to their integrity, which is a measure of how sure you are about who You are. People who are repeatedly fed on by beasts are reduced to volitionless wrecks, and in the initial beast printing their atagonists (Heroes) were people who got their integrity zeroed out and then got caught up in the narrative of the Beast, they lacked a sense of self so the Beast's Story gave them one. But of course that means that hte antagonists are actually victims and we can't have that so the text was very clear that no, actually, Heroes are all assholes every single one because if Heroes were actually good and moral people they'd realise that the Beasts are Correct, and instead of hunting them they'd help beasts find victims and then perform aftercare on the victims explaining that they did in fact deserve that and they should try to be better people in the future. You know, the victims that survive. So in 2018 some allegations came out that Matt McFarland molested an underage girl while he was a speech therapist at a school, and a cavalcade of accusations came out after that fact revealing that Matt basically power/resassurance raped a bunch of girls in the industry using his and his wife's positions on the board of indie game developers to find him a steady stream of victims and then scare them into silence. and then they released the beast players guide which not only has a new family of beasts that represent the fear of Ambiguous Brown People (Implying that being afraid of ambiguous brown people is in fact correct and justified) they released the Talassi. Talassi represent the fear of imprisonment. But you see they actually represent the fear of Rapio, an ancient latin word that meant imprisonment before ancient social justice warriors changed it's meaning to, you know, Rape. So now they're supernaturally compelled to rape people and it's actually super sad and you should applaud them with praise every single day that goes by that they don't rape someone because of how much willpower it takes to Not Rape Someone. Also the book's intro fiction is an evil child rapist beast being killed by two children beasts who are then saved by a heroic speech therapist. The reason all this got past the editor is because Beast's editor was Matt's Wife. Randalor posted:... WHAT THE gently caress? In the initial kickstarter copy she gave poisoned candy to a bully who was picking on trick or treaters then held the bag over his head until he passed out choking on his own vomit, then turned his bedroom into a lair so she could revist him whenever she wanted. This scene was presented as an example of how to run a "feeding" encounter and the fact that everyone else at the table was horrified was described as what you should be aiming for with Feedings. In the actual published book the only thing that was changed was the Bully is now a Frat Bro, who was apparently bullying trick or treaters???
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Sep 20, 2023 18:32
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I've been playing in a Demon: The Descent game and it's really quite cool (it's one of the CoD games). Shame about the author, but the background and lore of the game is probably some of my favourite in any WoD-adjacent game.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:36
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Kurieg posted:THE WORDS ARE SPOKEN AND I MUST OBEY Wow. Okay. Thanks for the summaries, everyone. Please stop. Just... please, please tell me that he and his wife are, if not dead and spending eternity on a special level of hell, at the very least behind bars.
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Sep 20, 2023 18:45
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Oh we also forgot to mention that Beast as printed was meant to be the Splat that enables Crossover, so every other supernatural creature in the world of darkness loves Beasts for some reason. Except for Demons, for some reason.Randalor posted:Wow. Okay. Thanks for the summaries, everyone. Please stop. As far as I know they're out of the tradgaming industry and that's as much as we're going to get. Their credible crimes are past the statute of limitations. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 18:47
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Lurks With Wolves posted:
Hold up - mummy was 1st edition cofd - after that we got perfectly good second eds of wtf, vtr, changeling and geist as well as DtD with is imho best cofd game. Issues started with some vampire supplements of middling quality but it was beast that kicked them square in the balls and became cost that sunk them in the long run
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Sep 20, 2023 19:11
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Kurieg posted:Oh we also forgot to mention that Beast as printed was meant to be the Splat that enables Crossover, so every other supernatural creature in the world of darkness loves Beasts for some reason. Except for Demons, for some reason. I just now realized why this is: It's to let you run a Beast character in any game, with or without your storyteller's consent. And if they push back, they're refusing to "yes, and..." collaborate, respect your agency, and disregarding published lore. gently caress everything about Beast.
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Sep 20, 2023 19:20
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Kurieg posted:Oh we also forgot to mention that Beast as printed was meant to be the Splat that enables Crossover, so every other supernatural creature in the world of darkness loves Beasts for some reason. Except for Demons, for some reason. Which never made any sense when you considered for more than a second what a Beast does to the supernatural ecosystem of a city. The TLDR of it is basically Beasts gently caress up everything for everyone and so there is 0 reason Vampires/Werewolves/Changelings/Sin-Eaters, etc would be cool with hanging out with a Beast instead of doing the rational thing which would be "Yo gently caress this thing, it needs to die post haste because it's loving up the food supply/spirit world/whatever" God drat that game sucks so loving much and it's author needs to be shot into the loving sun.
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Sep 20, 2023 19:24
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Covermeinsunshine posted:Hold up - mummy was 1st edition cofd - after that we got perfectly good second eds of wtf, vtr, changeling and geist as well as DtD with is imho best cofd game. Issues started with some vampire supplements of middling quality but it was beast that kicked them square in the balls and became cost that sunk them in the long run I see you have forgotten the second edition of Mummy: The Curse. Which is understandable, because it's an indistinct mess that doesn't solve the problems. (... It also came out significantly later than Beast, whoops. I still stand by mentioning Mummy there, though, because at least Mummy was in that weird late-nWoD period where no one knew if they were finishing the whole line or getting the rights to a second edition and it's still a weird dip in quality.)
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Sep 20, 2023 19:25
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| # ? May 23, 2024 15:52 |
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I want a game that lets me explore the deep characterization of the monster in Nope.
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Sep 20, 2023 21:09
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