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If Mitsuru is 0 then is Shinjiro a negative one? Because Yukari would be 2 if Akihiro is 1...
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Sep 20, 2023 20:22
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| # ? May 24, 2024 11:40 |
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https://twitter.com/StellaNoxEclair/status/1704426945755103736
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Sep 20, 2023 20:38
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Hellioning posted:If Mitsuru is 0 then is Shinjiro a negative one? Because Yukari would be 2 if Akihiro is 1... Shinji must be 2, which would mean Yukari has to be 4 for some reason? I guess because she's never successfully fired her Evoker when you meet her? It's the only thing that explains Junpei being 5.
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Sep 20, 2023 20:42
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In the tgs footage, yukari is 4 on the status menu.
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Sep 20, 2023 20:56
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Playing through Q2 also reminded me how the P3 female protag is so much more interesting than the male, disappointing that they’re not including her. I don’t feel like we really need three super cool and calm guys in a row and the naginata is way cooler than another sword guy. Admittedly I didn’t finish my original P3 run back in like 2007 or whatever but I would have preferred to just have FeMC if only one route could be done for Reload. It’s been like 5 years since I played through P3P but just using FeMC after P4 and P5 seems like an easy way to freshen up the formula a bit. The Ken romance part can be removed though
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Sep 20, 2023 21:24
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P3 male MC ftw. FeMC would've been nice tho.
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Sep 20, 2023 21:38
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coiol posted:Playing through Q2 also reminded me how the P3 female protag is so much more interesting than the male, disappointing that they’re not including her. I don’t feel like we really need three super cool and calm guys in a row and the naginata is way cooler than another sword guy. I assume the honest answer is that outside of places like this you'd lose more sales having FemMC only than you would having MaleMC only. The idea answer would be both but it's pretty much a proven truth that a huge majority of people slampick Generic Male Lead in any game that gives options.
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Sep 20, 2023 21:45
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male mc is more popular with both women and men, at least in the case of persona.
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Sep 20, 2023 21:57
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Male MC is so popular in Japan that an acrylic standee of his default Soejima artwork with Orpheus resells for 60k yen.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:01
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Male lead isn't even bad I'm just amazed they don't want to go through the effort of giving you options (without making you pay for it, maybe.)
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Sep 20, 2023 22:10
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I guess I did think male MC was super cool in 2007-2008 but 15 years later after having two more MCs that are pretty similar female MC is a lot more appealing to me now. Is P3 male MC more popular than Yu Narukami or Joker?
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Sep 20, 2023 22:12
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Hellioning posted:Male lead isn't even bad I'm just amazed they don't want to go through the effort of giving you options (without making you pay for it, maybe.) There are a number of totally different social links from what I remember, they’d have to add a lot extra to the script and hire more voice actors etc.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:13
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Hellioning posted:Male lead isn't even bad I'm just amazed they don't want to go through the effort of giving you options (without making you pay for it, maybe.) It's not really a minor amount of effort. FemMC isn't just a model swap has has a lot of different dialogue and different character interactions and they'd have to redo all the voice acting to match that. It's not impossible by any means but it's a fair amount of budget to spend when you know 90% of folks are going to pick Bluehair and be done with it. coiol posted:There are a number of totally different social links from what I remember, they’d have to add a lot extra to the script and hire more voice actors etc. Those social links, to be fair, appear to be worked in some form into the main game, there are trailer scenes which look like similar sequences.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:19
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Adding the female MC is almost like building an entirely new game out of the same art assets. It's a non-trivial task and absolutely should not be done just to "give players the option."
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Sep 20, 2023 22:19
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Clarste posted:Adding the female MC is almost like building an entirely new game out of the same art assets. It's a non-trivial task and absolutely should not be done just to "give players the option." The Female Joker P5R mod clearly proves this statement.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:33
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I feel like I'm going crazy. "Well, most people wouldn't pick her." Okay? Who cares about this hypothetical majority of people? People want her in because they like the character and she hasn't gotten a proper release. You're not actually convincing anyone here, you're just running apologia. You all know my stance, I don't think this project should be released like this, but that's still a bad argument. I would legitimately prefer this remake have less work put into it and just include the things I wanted it for in the first place.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:35
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Another epic W for dudes.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:36
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Arist posted:You're not actually convincing anyone here, you're just running apologia i have no real interest in the remake especially without femc but the conniptions are getting ridiculous.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:38
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The poll might be Asia-only, but there are numbers showing both MCs are popular.
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Sep 20, 2023 22:57
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Arist posted:The problem with the Adam Kadmon fight isn't that it's unlosable, it's that you can quite easily take it down before it gets a turn I mean, literally everything in late P5R is trivially easy on every difficulty level. I'm not even a person who is good at games, and I find myself wanting some sort of difficulty level that is actually challenging later on. I think part of the issue is that it's too easy to constantly whip out full party heal/revives, so there's not really a good way to increase the difficulty without going to the superboss level where you can suffer a full party wipe from a single attack. I think there should have been more fights requiring some of the more "esoteric" skills, like the ones that block damage or nullify certain elements. I think there's only a literal handful where you really need to care about that.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:01
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female MC isnt unpopular but every one of those polls shows male MC beating her and it predates persona 5 (and is very lowres) but heres a poll where female mc ranks below, koromaru  ive yet to find a single poll where female mc beats male mc
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Sep 20, 2023 23:01
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Arist posted:I feel like I'm going crazy. "Well, most people wouldn't pick her." Okay? Who cares about this hypothetical majority of people? People want her in because they like the character and she hasn't gotten a proper release. You're not actually convincing anyone here, you're just running apologia. You all know my stance, I don't think this project should be released like this, but that's still a bad argument. Stating reality isn't apologia.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:03
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Endorph posted:apologia. lmao. apologia for what? Poor choice of words, fair enough. My point is, this is a hell of Atlus' own making. 99% of the time, I'm sympathetic to developers falling short of fan demand, but in this case the project's raison d'etre is answering a very specific fan demand that they're just ignoring. It's also an issue for me when they just lie and say "We're focused on recreating the original Persona 3 experience," which is untrue in just about every possible way besides the two major things it doesn't have. So when I see people going "it would be too much work" my immediate response is "You know what else is a lot of work? The entire rest of this project." Because, truly, to me, remakes are mostly kind of bullshit. It's cool to get a new audience on a new version of a game, but I don't often find them very stimulating in and of themselves (besides FF7 Remake, which is so radical a departure so far it almost doesn't count for me personally). They're coasting, basically, and it's not helped by new releases these days in general being a glut of remakes. If they're gonna show me the same thing again, I'd like it to be complete, if nothing else. But really, the problem to me is not actually the existence of Reload, it's that we're either never getting the proper version of this or that they're going to sell Persona 3 to us a fifth time. The remake is whatever, it honestly looks cool in a lot of ways, it's just what it necessarily implies that's a bummer, to me. I'll definitely play Reload, I just probably won't actually buy it (thanks, Game Pass). (There's also an alternate reality where they actually did go all-in on recreating the original release of Persona 3 and not incorporating anything from FES or Portable, and that would absolutely be a terrible idea, but it would still be weirdly kind of exciting? Like, I'd find that artistically valid on some level, y'know)
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Sep 20, 2023 23:04
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33% of male players and 76% of female players would pick a female character. Based on the numbers in the article, 40-43% of players regardless of gender would pick a female MC so I dunno what the other posters are saying regarding this supposed vast player majority preferring male.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:07
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what reality are you living in where they're in hell? i see some occasional griping but there isnt massive fan backlash about it.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:08
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anakha posted:The poll might be Asia-only, but there are numbers showing both MCs are popular. Lol at Ken in last place in every poll except one, where he is in second-last
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Sep 20, 2023 23:08
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anakha posted:33% of male players and 76% of female players would pick a female character. that said i agree that 'the vast majority of players prefer male' is pretty silly as a statement, but in this specific context the japanese, female audience does seem very specifically fond of the male protags.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:09
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Arist posted:Poor choice of words, fair enough. My point is, this is a hell of Atlus' own making. 99% of the time, I'm sympathetic to developers falling short of fan demand, but in this case the project's raison d'etre is answering a very specific fan demand that they're just ignoring. It's also an issue for me when they just lie and say "We're focused on recreating the original Persona 3 experience," which is untrue in just about every possible way besides the two major things it doesn't have. So when I see people going "it would be too much work" my immediate response is "You know what else is a lot of work? The entire rest of this project." Because, truly, to me, remakes are mostly kind of bullshit. It's cool to get a new audience on a new version of a game, but I don't often find them very stimulating in and of themselves (besides FF7 Remake, which is so radical a departure so far it almost doesn't count for me personally). They're coasting, basically, and it's not helped by new releases these days in general being a glut of remakes. If they're gonna show me the same thing again, I'd like it to be complete, if nothing else. It takes a strong moral viewpoint to call people a bunch of apologists for worthless remakes in the same breath as you admit you think it looks good and are going to play it.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:09
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Endorph posted:what reality are you living in where they're in hell? i see some occasional griping but there isnt massive fan backlash about it. I guess I was referring more to the presumed hell of doing all the work to include FeMC in that statement, but also that's just a phrase I'm partial to and I probably kind of lost sight of how I was using it
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Sep 20, 2023 23:10
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ImpAtom posted:It takes a strong moral viewpoint to call people a bunch of apologists for worthless remakes in the same breath as you admit you think it looks good and are going to play it. Hmm, I don't think I said this at all I'm just saying your defense was bad, dude, I'm trying to be at least somewhat even-handed here
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Sep 20, 2023 23:11
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Endorph posted:
I was responding to this statement in particular. ImpAtom posted:it's pretty much a proven truth that a huge majority of people slampick Generic Male Lead in any game that gives options. That's a generalization being made and not specific to P3. I'd like to see that statement backed up by actual numbers the way I did mine.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:13
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Arist posted:Hmm, I don't think I said this at all My 'defense' being... What?
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Sep 20, 2023 23:14
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Yeah i disagree with that generalization too, fair
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Sep 20, 2023 23:14
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ImpAtom posted:My 'defense' being... What? You were making the point (a bad one, I feel) that FeMC would not have a return on investment worthwhile to put her in the game. I wasn't casting loving moral aspersions on you for saying that, I just think it was a dumb thing to say.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:16
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"Hell of Atlas's own making" implies that they're somehow loving themselves over by not having the FeMC, which is obviously not the case. It would be nice if they did it, but it seems pretty obvious that it wouldn't exactly be a great business decision. A P3 remake is an obvious seller on its own, but it requires the sort of changes they're making (with it feeling more P5-ish) to be palatable to newer players. FeMC would require a very significant expense (assuming they did it well like in P3P) for an extremely marginal increase in sales. Basically, we're lucky we even got the FeMCin P3P, and that was likely due to a combination of "its visual novel format making it easier to add more scenes/dialogue" and "they wanted to add some sort of new 'gimmick' in the re-release to make it appeal to people who have played the original." Probably more the former than the latter. P3 Reloaded is largely (probably mainly) aimed at brand new players who have only played P5 and/or P4, so there's just not much of a demand for the extra protagonist outside of a small subset of people who have already played P3.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:18
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i dont think their point was 'objectively, it wouldnt be a return on investment' its that 'it would cost money and atlus, the company, determined it wouldn't be worth that investment.' whether or not they're right in that assessment is immaterial because its the decision they made
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Sep 20, 2023 23:18
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right, but my response to that was "why should people who like this character care about Atlus's ROI, that's not going to make them feel better about this" the return on investment is immaterial, because that's the point I was making
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Sep 20, 2023 23:20
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Ytlaya posted:Basically, we're lucky we even got the FeMCin P3P, and that was likely due to a combination of "its visual novel format making it easier to add more scenes/dialogue" and "they wanted to add some sort of new 'gimmick' in the re-release to make it appeal to people who have played the original." Probably more the former than the latter. femc's existence very clearly ties into this.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:21
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reload looks less artsy
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Sep 20, 2023 23:26
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Arist posted:You were making the point (a bad one, I feel) that FeMC would not have a return on investment worthwhile to put her in the game. I wasn't casting loving moral aspersions on you for saying that, I just think it was a dumb thing to say. Okay. Let's rephrase this. Consider you admittedly you would be playing P3R via Gamepass (which still counts as playing it because the success of games influences the expected buy-in for them from X-Box, something we know from the leaks earlier this week), do you genuinely think there is a significant number of people who are going to play P3R with a female MC who will not play P3R without the female MC? Like genuinely? I am certain there are some but I genuinely don't think it is a statically significant number. And for point #2: Does me stating that mean that I don't want to see the female MC, don't like the female MC, or wouldn't be happier if she was an option in the game? Or is it me stating something entirely reasonable despite it not being something I personally am happy with the answer to? Do I have to be 'rushing to the defense' of Atlus to state that, yeah, as much as I want to see the female MC I think it is not something that a bean counter is going to consider worth the cost it would take to impliment. Because most of what you say reads to me as going "You just don't WANT a female MC and defend Atlus against anything" and not, you know, me acknowledging that what I want isn't going to get in the game despite me wanting it. anakha posted:That's a generalization being made and not specific to P3. I'd like to see that statement backed up by actual numbers the way I did mine. Also I didn't ignore this, I'm trying to get together the various numbers I've seen from various sources. You can, for example, find the Bioware numbers for how as low as 17% of people chose a female Shepard or how in Cyberpunk a minimum of 67% of players had to play as a male character (and likely higher because that was just the number of people who romanced the male-only romance option). Getting together Japanese number is a lot harder because people point to popularity polls which are fundamentally flawed as a concept (a lot of people will just vote for the default protagonist no matter what). Unfortunately google has become AI generated trash so it's taking me longer to find stuff that isn't the easily found stuff. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 23:27
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