(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Senor Tron posted:What victories since WW2 does Russia have to look at without going all the way back to 1945?
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Sep 22, 2023 04:07
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| # ? May 28, 2024 10:05 |
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Verbove is in dire straights right now. Ukraine has taken the advantage and is flanking the majority of the VdV. We could see some chaos come out of Russian telegram within the next 24 hours. Bakhmut is getting dire too.
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Sep 22, 2023 04:16
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Good lord just noticed WCG's avatar woooooooooow
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Sep 22, 2023 04:19
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Good lord just noticed WCG's avatar woooooooooow WAR CRIME GLUTES
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Sep 22, 2023 04:21
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Verbove is in dire straights right now. Ukraine has taken the advantage and is flanking the majority of the VdV. if true, hersh's lil spiel about ukraine's army being decimated is just another case of russian projection
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Sep 22, 2023 04:25
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the holy poopacy posted:Russian hero worshippers believe the USSR is great because it beat the Nazis. Most of the time, they completely ignore the USSR's contributions. Russia would have been defeated if it hadn't been for two things: the resources and human sacrifice of the rest of the USSR, and US industrial capacity. But their mythos is not inclusive of that, it was Russia and Russia alone that won the war.
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Sep 22, 2023 04:40
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Sashimi posted:1969.
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Sep 22, 2023 04:42
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My Spirit Otter posted:if true, hersh's lil spiel about ukraine's army being decimated is just another case of russian projection I mean is that even a question??? I mean if you think the Ukrainian counteroffensive is going slow in any way or they are losing momentum you're a loving idiot. I don't think you specifically are but I just mean in general. Herschel Walker is a ducking idiot in saying that the engine is running out of steam. Its just so disinformation I couldn't even imagine it to be a valid point. The US absolutely wanted Ukraine to concentrate everything into one decisive front line. However with the resources that Ukraine has at its disposal it has to maintain a front-wide readiness force that will stop any Russian human wave attack. Especially while Ukraine is trying to push in the south, it needs to have forces in the East it needs to have forces on the Belarus and border it needs to have forces quite a few places because there is such a wide amount of ground to cover. That doesn't mean that the front line is going to be weaker but it does mean that it is a more precise war. Russia has the pleasure of not being able to have its territory invaded. Which to me is complete loving bullshit. Honestly. 25,000 Wagner guys got to Moscow, if Ukraine dedicated 50,000 it would end the war in a very very stunning speed. At this point Russia doesn't have enough people to stop that. The only person stopping is the US and Europe for obvious and clear reasons and I'm not going to downplay those reasons. Back to the point at hand, Herschel saying that Ukrainian Army is spent is just absolute garbage, if it were true why is Ukraine spending so much time doing special forces operations into crimea? Is that just all for propaganda. You see how all this starts to build into the Russian way of making statements. You have to believe Russian propaganda to make any of these statements make sense. Even if you believe into it a little bit they will start to make sense and create a cohesive picture. However that picture is complete and under nonsense and in the face of the reality on the ground it is completely opposite. Ukraine has been conducting combat operations for months now. And it is still conducting offensive operations it is still gaining ground which is usually a clear sign that your offensive is going well not bad because when it's bad, well in a war like this it can quickly turn sideways. Russia has 100,000 soldiers positioned at Lyman and their counteroffensive failed miserably. The reason that it failed is because Ukraine didn't need to relegate forces to that area to stop it. Also just isn't a side because there's just so much content, Ukraine being able to stop a counter offensive to the north of the Southern front means that they are clearly have enough forces that they aren't doing Russia's doing on the Norwegian border and just draining every other front line to the lowest amount of people possible.
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Sep 22, 2023 04:47
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Your voice recognition seems to think Sy Hersh won a Heisman
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Sep 22, 2023 04:54
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:lotta words no, just pointing out the fact that everything russia says is projection. the reason i said if true is because you just made strong claims without anything to back it up and i dont believe everything i read on the internet, just most things.
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Sep 22, 2023 04:58
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My Spirit Otter posted:no, just pointing out the fact that everything russia says is projection. Oh it was just I guess a stunning point to make in a weirdly worded way. But I mean this is pretty par Ukraine's been conducting offensive operations on Verbove for a month. Like these things aren't bold strong claims if you're following the front lines. They're just the next days update. You know a couple kilometers was taken a village was sieged like it would be strong if I was claiming they were driving tanks through Tokmak. But that isn't what's occuring.
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Sep 22, 2023 05:01
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Rust Martialis posted:Your voice recognition seems to think Sy Hersh won a Heisman CTE would explain a lot
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Sep 22, 2023 05:05
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My Spirit Otter posted:if true, hersh's lil spiel about ukraine's army being decimated is just another case of russian projection No, no, it's tankie dogma. The Russian army is a bulwark against which waves of Ukrainians just die. When objective events dictate, the Russian army will advance to devastating effect. It's quite optimistic all things considered and quite mad.
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Sep 22, 2023 05:12
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Russia’s fetishization of WW2 is I think mostly due to basically having no world recognized accomplishments since then. Yes Sputnik and the first man in space but after that it’s basically nothing. Tetris? The trolololol song?
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Sep 22, 2023 05:38
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Zero VGS posted:Did he they get republicans to be less loving weird about it? Last time I checked they're supposed to hate Russia. I would have said two years ago that they agreed on abortion but I think the surrender from that point of agreement has begun in earnest
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Sep 22, 2023 05:59
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Dr. Quarex posted:Owning the libs has replaced all Republican ideology other than tax cuts. Though if Biden proposed across-the-board tax cuts at this point I think Republicans would still find a reason to oppose it. Probably saying he does not go far enough or he should prioritize tax cuts for JOB CREATORS debt the debt only matters when a dem is in power to the point where it will negate dem tax cuts.
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Sep 22, 2023 06:02
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Seymour Hersh is 86 years old. He has had brain worms for at least 10 years and probably a lot longer. The only story here, and it's not much of one, is that of yet another ancient person hanging on far past their sell-by date... and other people enabling it. His analysis of the war is of no more value than that of the goon who dropped a really stupid take in here yesterday and got dogpiled for it.
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Sep 22, 2023 06:21
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organic brain damage: just say no!
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Sep 22, 2023 06:22
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Whopping Cake Goku.
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Sep 22, 2023 06:27
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Gonna start blaming Syd Hersh for the Cowboys' 90s dynasty
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Sep 22, 2023 06:49
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marshalljim posted:Seymour Hersh is 86 years old. He has had brain worms for at least 10 years and probably a lot longer. The only story here, and it's not much of one, is that of yet another ancient person hanging on far past their sell-by date... and other people enabling it. Can we stop with this "Oh he's just OLD and has BRAIN WORMS" when he's been an evil fuckup for a very long time. Not as much as Chomsky, but up there. We need to stop excusing them.
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Sep 22, 2023 06:55
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I want to see less Hersh 
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Sep 22, 2023 07:00
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hershey squirted
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Sep 22, 2023 07:06
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:
this has been a thing for over a year now
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Sep 22, 2023 07:06
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Dr. Quarex posted:Owning the libs has replaced all Republican ideology other than tax cuts. Though if Biden proposed across-the-board tax cuts at this point I think Republicans would still find a reason to oppose it. Probably saying he does not go far enough or he should prioritize tax cuts for JOB CREATORS those morons are still on the trickle down ghost of saint ronnie
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Sep 22, 2023 07:08
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If WCG keeps predicting Bakhmut will be encircled, eventually he'll be right.
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Sep 22, 2023 07:11
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Kchama posted:Can we stop with this "Oh he's just OLD and has BRAIN WORMS" when he's been an evil fuckup for a very long time. Not as much as Chomsky, but up there. We need to stop excusing them. I don't excuse Chomsky or Hersh - and I was in the 90s a total admirer of Chomsky to the point I used to exchange emails with him. Chomsky got a lot of people into leftist causes like East Timor and opposed to death squads in Central and South America. But at this point you see the effect of being surrounded by admirers who cheer on every utterance - Hersh is feeding the conspiracy theorists with his stories, and they tell him how brilliant he is, which drives more cycles. Critics can be ignored, just like the old days of muckraking in My Lai or Abu Ghraib. So I don't excuse them, but I think I understand a little. It's their enablers, hangers-on, and validators who are the drivers here.
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Sep 22, 2023 07:11
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Kchama posted:Can we stop with this "Oh he's just OLD and has BRAIN WORMS" when he's been an evil fuckup for a very long time. Not as much as Chomsky, but up there. We need to stop excusing them. Abu Ghraib was 2004, when he was 67. I presume you are okay with his reporting on that? When did he become an evil fuckup, in your mind, or start to? Edit: And nobody's excusing anybody. That's a really dumb take.
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Sep 22, 2023 07:19
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ded posted:this has been a thing for over a year now ...what? Russia took Bakhmut earlier this year. I mean, I'm not telling you to believe it's about to fall back into Ukrainian hands but there was a long period there where it was understood that a) Ukraine would not hold the city indefinitely b) they were exacting an astonishingly high blood tax from Russia for being kicked out.
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Sep 22, 2023 07:20
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Sep 22, 2023 07:24
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marshalljim posted:Abu Ghraib was 2004, when he was 67. I presume you are okay with his reporting on that? When did he become an evil fuckup, in your mind, or start to? There's no other reason to go "Oh he's old. That's why he's saying such stupid things. It's the enablers who are confusing him" unless you're trying to excuse him. He sucks. Abu Ghraib just happened to dovetail with his interests. It was a thing that he could smash America with so he grabbed it gleefully. And he was right to. But that same ideology is leading him astray here because he doesn't check his sources and biases. My point is, don't say 'oh he's ancient, all these people are leading astray' because it's not true. He's always been doing whatever it takes to attack America, and it was his luck that it mostly lined up perfectly with America being awful. But he's so into it that he keeps doing it even when America is on the right side for once.
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Sep 22, 2023 07:34
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Generally speaking, anyone who has equated the current counteroffensive with "WW1 with drones" has been wrong. The thing is, the last couple of months worth of counter offensive have been gaining ground by the successful application of a WW1 tactic: the Bite And Hold operation. In WW1, later in 1916 through the Spring Offensive in 1918, lessons learned were applied by the Allies. The classical WW1 offensive was a breakthrough attempt aimed at the second or deeper line of trenches, generally en masse. With artillery support, taking the first line of enemy trenches was very possible. The second line was also achievable, but that was where the attacking troops were running ahead of their communications and out of sync with their artillery support. Then the German counterattack would come in, and they'd be lucky to keep their initial gains. The counterattack often resulted in the attackers ending up with a badly negative casualty ratio. This was all due to an inevitable breakdown in communications. Advancing troops couldn't adjust the artillery schedule, couldn't call fire on counterattacking troops, couldn't call for support of any kind. A lot of things were tried. In WW1 they just couldn't make a man-portable radio. Semaphore had visibility issues, flares could be spoofed, and the farther forward you pushed telephone wire, the greater the chance of a break. The solution was an attack that didn't rely on any communication with the rear. The attacking element would grab the first line of enemy trenches, and then organize to defend it. They had a relatively good chance of keeping telephone communications with the artillery for support, this was a bonus that could result in the slaughter of counterattacking troops. The artillery could, even without comms, bombard the second line trenches on a realistic schedule. Not pushing as far as possible saved strength (lives) to hold the initial gains. They bit off no more than they could chew, and they could hold it. On the Southern Front in Ukraine, the opening phase of the counteroffensive included attacks my mechanized formations. Minefields and helicopter-launched ATGMs shut these down quickly. Since those early days, UAF have been pushing small units, reinforced squads in a lot of occasions, to grab a local strong point 8-12 troopers, a tank, and maybe some IFVs will advance to contact with artillery support. A long succession of these operations got them into broad contact with the initial belt of minefields. Those were slowly, painstakingly cleared by sappers supported by drones with thermal imaging. That's a modern Bite And Hold operation. A small infantry force, with strong support, takes a position and then defends it against counterattack. And then another. And another. Soon Russian minefields are being cleared the slow but sure way. Today, this has paid off in UAF mechanized infantry units operating behind the first line of defense. It took months to get to Robotnye. It took weeks to get through the first main line of defense to invest Verbove. Ukraine is winning. it's slow. It's an old concept. It's working.
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Sep 22, 2023 07:47
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Der Kyhe posted:Those still existed in online stores such as Varusteleka 1-5e/semi-random medal in 2019 before COVID-times. A friend of mine went to Russia to visit their tank museum a few years ago and came back with a 3kg bag of Soviet military medals. We handed them out as trophies in various retro game competitions at our yearly LAN party. I have some stolen soviet valour in a box somewhere in my closet. One of them was a rad medal with a golden tractor on it that was apparently given to workers at a kolkhoz who did the best or something, and the rest are just military medals I never bothered to identify. E: apparently that 3kg bag cost the equivalent of 6 euros. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Sep 22, 2023 |
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Sep 22, 2023 07:54
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mllaneza posted:Generally speaking, anyone who has equated the current counteroffensive with "WW1 with drones" has been wrong. This is a good post. Do you have some references to others analysing the counter offensive along these lines? I’d like to read more
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Sep 22, 2023 07:58
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:What exactly is the conflict here? For something that apparently affects the EU, we've heard practically nothing about it in Finland. I heard about this for the first time this morning. This thread is days ahead of the media curve it seems. This is the article I just read, I went to this thread to see what was being said here. So you can compare and contrast. https://svenska.yle.fi/a/7-10042085 quote:The dispute with Poland is Ukraine's biggest communication mistake in the war: "Zelensky should understand how to change his rhetoric" So based on what local media has been saying, this has been a serious misstep on Ukraines part and things might get worse between Ukraine and Poland yet if they don't start attempting to repair relations.
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Sep 22, 2023 08:08
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Kchama posted:There's no other reason to go "Oh he's old. That's why he's saying such stupid things. It's the enablers who are confusing him" unless you're trying to excuse him. He sucks. Abu Ghraib just happened to dovetail with his interests. It was a thing that he could smash America with so he grabbed it gleefully. And he was right to. But that same ideology is leading him astray here because he doesn't check his sources and biases. My point is, don't say 'oh he's ancient, all these people are leading astray' because it's not true. He's always been doing whatever it takes to attack America, and it was his luck that it mostly lined up perfectly with America being awful. But he's so into it that he keeps doing it even when America is on the right side for once. His judgement is clearly not what it used to be. If it were, why would so many of the worst-sourced and blatantly counterfactual pieces of his career have come in the last ten years or so? He's actively making the world a worse place, when the right thing to do would be to retire. Plenty of respected, trustworthy people would be happy to tell him this, and it's not as though he is so far gone mentally that he could not listen to their advice. He chooses to lean on his enablers, and he is 100% responsible for that and the damage done by his increasingly shoddy work. And those enablers aren't "confusing him" or "leading him astray." They're supporting him with their own terrible reporting, publishing him, keeping him in the limelight when his work no longer deserves it. He's old, but he's far from helpless.
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Sep 22, 2023 08:21
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marshalljim posted:His judgement is clearly not what it used to be. If it were, why would so many of the worst-sourced and blatantly counterfactual pieces of his career have come in the last ten years or so? His judgement has been bad for at least 20 years. Like Abu Ghaib aside, he also started carrying water for Syria and Iran's dictators, which is what led to him trying to claim that Assad did not chemical attack people in 2013. But it wasn't that he suddenly started loving up in 2013, it's that's he's always been buddying up to dictators and finally went too far in trying to help them. It's not that he's old, he just sucks rear end.
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Sep 22, 2023 08:33
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Beffer posted:This is a good post. Do you have some references to others analysing the counter offensive along these lines? I’d like to read more Not for the analysis. I don't recall seeing anyone else call what Ukraine is doing an old fashioned Bite and Hold operation. But it was pretty obvious to me that that was what was happening; a steady stream of small wins moving steadily in the right direction. For WW1 stuff, my short list of recommendations is Lyn Macdonald. She was a major figure in the BBC's oral history project. She then turned those interviews into cohesive narratives about the war. 1915 is her most powerful volume, https://www.amazon.com/1915-Death-Innocence-ebook/dp/B00M64H2JA
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Sep 22, 2023 08:58
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Barudak posted:Gonna start blaming Syd Hersh for the Cowboys' 90s dynasty Bud Grant didn’t stand out in the cold without heaters just for Ukraine to lose
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Sep 22, 2023 09:10
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| # ? May 28, 2024 10:05 |
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tiaz posted:...what? Russia took Bakhmut earlier this year. I mean, I'm not telling you to believe it's about to fall back into Ukrainian hands but there was a long period there where it was understood that a) Ukraine would not hold the city indefinitely b) they were exacting an astonishingly high blood tax from Russia for being kicked out. it was "about to fall" for nearly a year and now that russia "holds it" it is "about to fall" the entire time the location is a honeypot
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Sep 22, 2023 09:29
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