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Hey wtf was Vader actually a "Lord" of anyway? Did he have vassals below him that swore allegiance?
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Jul 18, 2023 20:27
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 06:33 |
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Madurai posted:Counterpoint: Luke's shields were the only ones that ever saved a starfighter that had been hit. Didn't Wedge take a hit at Yavin and have to pull out?
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Jul 19, 2023 03:02
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Didn't Wedge take a poo poo at Yavin and have to pull out
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Jul 19, 2023 07:23
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The naboo ship from the phantom menace gets shot iirc and it knocks out the shield, then r2 goes up to fix it after like 5 other droids die or something. It might not technically count as a fighter I guess but that thing was being shot by pretty freakin huge guns. Imo shields work.
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Jul 19, 2023 10:06
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A few times during Yavin and Endor you can see tiny explosions going off around fighters which I took to represent the shields getting hit.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:38
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I figured that was supposed to be "flak" from the turbolasers.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:44
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reignofevil posted:The naboo ship from the phantom menace gets shot iirc and it knocks out the shield, then r2 goes up to fix it after like 5 other droids die or something. It might not technically count as a fighter I guess but that thing was being shot by pretty freakin huge guns. Imo shields work. It didn't have weapons (on purpose, as a statement) but it was still their royal yacht so it would be utterly stupid not to equip it with the best shields they could cram on without losing wardrobe space. Probably a whole order of magnitude better than starfighter shields.
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Jul 19, 2023 21:39
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Didn't Wedge take a hit at Yavin and have to pull out? IIRC, the quote was "I have a malfunction."
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Jul 20, 2023 02:49
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Madurai posted:IIRC, the quote was "I have a malfunction." That's Dak. He had a malfunction in fire control and had to cut in the auxiliary. Wedge says "I'm hit! I can't stay with you."
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Jul 20, 2023 03:39
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The Millennium Falcon similarly takes a lot of hits. Most of the X-Wings that go down in the Battle of Yavin I think take multiple hits. There's an initial pass where they're in the target zone of a flurry of shots from a TIE, and then it cuts to the pilot panicking in the cockpit, then it cuts to another flurry of shots where they die, which although direct contact is not shown, I think implies they were hit a bit in the initial pas. I think most notably with Garven Dreis, after the first pass, he says that he just lost his starboard engine, so presumably he was hit even though we don't see it. Most TIEs don't seem to take so many passes, just once the Rebels manage to actually focus on them, they go down easy. Darth Vader takes some damage and just spins off into space, the footage implies it was just a collision with another TIE, but you could also infer from context that it was fire from the Millennium Falcon? Either way, Vader survives damage, which might imply his ship has shields (which the EU tends to say). I feel like there may be a similar dynamic in the Battle of Endor? There's a whole lot of shots of TIEs firing on rebel starfighters that survive, but if it's the other way around and a Rebel starfighter has a shot on a TIE, that TIE is loving dying in that shot or the next. They don't just fire as the TIE jukes and snakes around like Rebel ships do. Madurai posted:IIRC, the quote was "I have a malfunction." "I'm hit! I can't stay with you!" Which is one of the few times we see direct contact from TIE fire.
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Jul 20, 2023 03:56
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There were definitely at least one or two starfighters at Endor that got popped pretty quickly by TIEs; here's an A-Wing that got splashed:  But then those two interceptors immediately get popped in rapid order by a Y-Wing (hell yeah!  ):  If we're gonna deep dive on starfighter shields, it's worth going back to A New Hope during the attack on the Millennium Falcon. The last TIE Fighter is barrelling in; Han shoots, and...    We see multiple small explosions, including one that is either adjacent to or directly in front of the TIE's body. That's not the frame right before the TIE explodes, either; the scene cuts back to Han before cutting to another optical effect that is more zoomed out so that the TIE Fighter's explosion can be dramatically big in proportion to the fighter:  And before anyone says "added for the special edition" those screenshots are pulled from a rip of a scan of one of the old 35mm prints. IMO my suspicion is that TIEs were originally intended to be shielded, perhaps even as well as Rebel fighters, but years of games balanced around letting the heroic player character gun down waves and waves of bad guys (hence, Rebel fighters that can absorb a lot of punishment and Imperial fighters that are made of paper) have since shifted things. (yeah yeah i know imgur isn't long for this world, but i really couldn't be arsed to cut down the screenshots to SA attachment limits, and then make the numerous posts needed to attach them all)
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Jul 22, 2023 15:54
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A-Wings for the record are pretty much the rebel equivalent of TIE fighters most of the time; very fast, fuckall shields, most likely to go boom with a good hit.
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Jul 22, 2023 18:08
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:IMO my suspicion is that TIEs were originally intended to be shielded, perhaps even as well as Rebel fighters, but years of games balanced around letting the heroic player character gun down waves and waves of bad guys (hence, Rebel fighters that can absorb a lot of punishment and Imperial fighters that are made of paper) have since shifted things. The X-Wings were definitely intended to be shielded in some capacity - Red Leader tells the squadron to switch their deflectors onto Double Front when they're approaching the Death Star. Most of the stuff about ship stats comes from the West End Games RPG, which then filtered into other stuff like the X-Wing and Rogue Squadron games, as well as the wider EU. Their stuff was definitely informed by how ILM was treating the ships though - the measurement they used for ship speed was in MGLT, which was the made-up units used during the production of Return of the Jedi (though they changed some things for variety - the Y-Wing was treated by ILM as being exactly as fast and maneuverable as X-Wings and TIEs for example). If there was any information used by ILM about which ships did or didn't have shields, it probably filtered through to West End as well.
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Jul 23, 2023 05:28
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Robot Style posted:though they changed some things for variety - the Y-Wing was treated by ILM as being exactly as fast and maneuverable as X-Wings and TIEs for example) ...which is why you saw them run down TIE interceptors in a stern chase. WEG is wholly responsible for the "Y-wing is slow and tough" business that became pervasive afterwards. The idea that they were big multicrewed bombers had been entirely discarded by the time of ANH's final draft script. (see Y-wing thread)
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Jul 23, 2023 06:22
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Madurai posted:...which is why you saw them run down TIE interceptors in a stern chase. Makes sense too, they've got those big-rear end engines
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Jul 25, 2023 17:31
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Makes sense too, they've got those big-rear end engines Most video games usually have the 'heavy and slow' type vehicles able to haul rear end once they get up to top speed because they have the big engines, just poor at turning.
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Jul 25, 2023 18:51
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What I appreciate about fallen order/jedi survivor is that it gives you a sense that the clones wars were actually really big and devastating.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:21
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is running the galaxy down to such severe war exhaustion that they'll accept any degree of fascist brutality as long as it means there's "no war" a deliberate part of ol' palpy's grand plan, or is that just a side effect?
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Jul 27, 2023 07:00
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:is running the galaxy down to such severe war exhaustion that they'll accept any degree of fascist brutality as long as it means there's "no war" a deliberate part of ol' palpy's grand plan, or is that just a side effect? Seems a great idea when your plan also involves gaining undisputed military power to have everyone on both sides ground down and exhausted leaving you in charge of the biggest remaining military-industrial complex. Same reason the US ended up a superpower.
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Jul 27, 2023 09:29
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what even is Palpatine's plan in the nu-EU? iirc the old one was some dumbshit "I had to be a space hitler to beat the even eviler yuuzhan vong" which is the dumbest villain story in all fiction. Especially Star Wars bc isn't that literally also Revan? Like the lore/the mmo had him be justified because "listen Malak, we gotta go dark side to stop the even baddier baddies out there" gimme villains like Darth Maul and PT/OT Sheev who just love being evil for evil's sake
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Jul 28, 2023 20:07
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Iirc the old EU Palps didn't really have a plan beyond "let's the strongest survive" and the whole thing about him preparing for the Vong was tacked on. Nu Palp's plan is to let his ghost move into a new clone body after Endor, burn the galaxy to a crisp in a scorched earth retreat, then wait for the magical Force Dyad to appear so he can swallow up the super Force of all the Jedi and all the Sith to become super evil.
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Jul 28, 2023 20:46
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And he almost got away with it too. Or maybe that’s also a part of the plan.
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Jul 29, 2023 16:29
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I think the diad was a pleasant surprise, not part of his plan.
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Jul 30, 2023 20:45
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A surprise to be sure but a welcome one?
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Jul 30, 2023 23:15
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I'm not gonna rewatch that dogshit movie
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Jul 31, 2023 19:14
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somewhat parallel-ish question: how long could the star wars galaxy have kept fighting the clone wars before galactic society/economy would have been exhausted? i guess for the purposes of this question you might have to assume that the immortal ultragrand-puppetmaster palpatine's goals are basically to try and get as much of the galaxy to kill each other as possible
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Sep 10, 2023 06:25
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It depends on how big the galaxy is. Despite being the most widespread conflict, the majority of clone wars engagements seem to be fairly limited exchanges compared to the massive battles we've had on Earth. Until you get giant battles like Coruscant it seems pretty common to see "big" clone wars battles feature a few divisions of clones at most, with several times their number in Droid opposition. That kind of warfare could probably drag out for decades if it was unaffected by other factors like the economy. It wouldn't be material exhaustion as much as financial ruin that would end the war.
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Sep 10, 2023 17:12
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did they keep making clones or was it just the one batch order from Siri dyahahahas
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Sep 10, 2023 22:44
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They had fetuses in jars in Attack of the Clones, so presumably they were prepared to deploy clones for at least a decade.
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Sep 10, 2023 23:58
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I think all the fetuses got blown up when the separatists invaded Kamino between movies so at the very least there was going to be a very long lead on reinforcements
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Sep 11, 2023 10:47
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There was some kinda thing about Kamino running into some difficulties from their Jango DNA starting to go stale for lack of fresh first generation samples, but ultimately the Empire decommissioned most of the clone stuff because they wanted to go for mass recruitment and indoctrination rather than relying on one distant planet for its military that could even go into revolt and create its own independent army.
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Sep 11, 2023 14:32
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pygmy tyrant posted:I think all the fetuses got blown up when the separatists invaded Kamino between movies so at the very least there was going to be a very long lead on reinforcements At the end of Bad Batch Season 1 the primary cloning facility on Kamino gets blown to bits by the Empire.
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Sep 11, 2023 14:59
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Arc Hammer posted:At the end of Bad Batch Season 1 the primary cloning facility on Kamino gets blown to bits by the Empire. Ah you're right, I totally thought it was in the clone wars cartoon but if I'm honest I slept through most of that. Bad Batch even shows the empty cloning tanks before it all gets blown up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lam7pJ34n38
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Sep 12, 2023 00:42
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seems like it would have been better to just make more clones. id ahve made more cloning facilities. not like the TECHNO LEGION stopped making droid factories
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Sep 12, 2023 03:13
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Quotey posted:seems like it would have been better to just make more clones. id ahve made more cloning facilities. not like the TECHNO LEGION stopped making droid factories Pretty sure they did. Just building new factories isn't exactly cheap or easy, there's a reason those are priority targets in real life wars. At least one Clone Wars episode involves an unsuccessful Seperatist attack on the Kamino cloning facilities, and I imagine the Republic and Empire would have enthusiastically destroyed and all battle droid factories they were able to.
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Sep 12, 2023 10:39
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pygmy tyrant posted:Ah you're right, I totally thought it was in the clone wars cartoon but if I'm honest I slept through most of that. Bad Batch even shows the empty cloning tanks before it all gets blown up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lam7pJ34n38 It does happen in Clone Wars as well during the Droid attack on Kamino and in that one they show thousands of embryo tanks getting blown the gently caress up.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:22
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There's a theory that one of the ideas of the Empire was to use mass recruitment and conscription as a way of building loyalty and spreading indoctrination throughout the galaxy's general population. It's probably also cheaper than cranking out a bunch of quick-aging clones indefinitely.
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Sep 12, 2023 19:24
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SlothfulCobra posted:There's a theory that one of the ideas of the Empire was to use mass recruitment and conscription as a way of building loyalty and spreading indoctrination throughout the galaxy's general population. Hell, at least half if not more of the things the Empire did were trying to oppress the galaxy on the cheap, what's one more? Add in a government that values obedience over actual competence, and it makes perfect sense they dump the clones that came from an only barely loyal bounty hunter to boot.
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Sep 13, 2023 03:14
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I know he's not canon, but George Lucas seemed to think that the Empire was still using clones during the Original Trilogy (which is why Jango hits his head on the door as he enters Slave I, because clumsiness is apparently genetic).
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Sep 14, 2023 00:46
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I still don’t really understand why Palpatine told everyone about his massive secret navy of ships that can blow up planets, when he could have not done that instead
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Sep 22, 2023 12:34
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