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Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Paperboy posted:

I'm hype to see Carlsen v Nakamura in speed chess championship today, while I procrastinate on college poo poo. Any predictions on winner? My money is on Carlsen despite Naka being a bullet god.

Hikaru has won five straight competitions including beating Magnus last year. But Magnus is historically ahead 2-1 in SCC matches. Magnus didn't compete in three that Hikaru won, and went out to MVL two years ago.

When these two play, it tends to come down to who is on better form. Hikaru used to way underperform against Magnus, but that has changed. Magnus still won the bullet portion in the last match, but part of that was because Hikaru had a pretty big lead early and he was using a lot of stalling tactics that bled some points strategically to drain the clock.

That said, Magnus has seemed to be on very good form, and Hikaru maybe isn't. In the semis he started 0-3 against MVL. He won because he blew MVL away in the bullet, but if he lets Magnus start with the same lead he probably loses. Then again, some of Hikaru's other performances in this event have been brutal slaughters.

So like always Magnus has to be the favorite, but Hikaru and this format makes it the slimmest possible margin of being favorite in probably any chess event. So, yeah, I'm also hype.

They are also playing again next week in the first round of the Champion's Chess Tour.

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Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/USChess/status/1705066466914050491?t=NXPz8W3JNinfpgnE8mMhUQ&s=19

Going to actually read my copy of Amateur's Mind today.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




This SCC match is nuts

Hikaru just took 5.5 points in the last six game to Magnus's .5, from being behind two games! And we are just in the mid-blitz break!

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

Sub Rosa posted:

This SCC match is nuts

Hikaru just took 5.5 points in the last six game to Magnus's .5, from being behind two games! And we are just in the mid-blitz break!

all tied up going into 1+1, ahhhhhhh

Paperboy
Nov 20, 2018

:shepface:

Spokes posted:

all tied up going into 1+1, ahhhhhhh

lets flippin go, my bets on mango carlton

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!
i want them both to win

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!
wow

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




What a match

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
What a match!

101
Oct 15, 2012


Vault Dweller
I love Aman and Danya and don't blame them, but the whole 'brought to you by a supplement scam and a crypto scam' was so gross

Great match though

Paperboy
Nov 20, 2018

:shepface:

101 posted:

the whole 'brought to you by a supplement scam and a crypto scam' was so gross

The days of huge chess benefactors are sadly over so I think chesscom will take whatever they can get, unfortunate as it is.

Now is the time of Polytopia billionaire benefactors :haw:

Hell yea it was a great match, what a spectacular end. Hopefully some great games come out of the rapids at Levitov Chess Week, too: https://lichess.org/broadcast/levitov-chess-week-2023/day-1-round-5/mKSbQwW7

Mikojan
May 12, 2010

I've mapped out the Vienna fairly well, mostly in the direction of the gambit and main line variation. The copy cat variation is pretty fun as well when black goes Nc6 Bc5.

However, I sometimes get into this position:



Which is hella boring since both sides tend to just build up the board in this clusterfuck of a stalemate.

Does anyone have any source material that deals with this? Or have any tips to break the monotomy of this game?

edit - found a great video that dives into a lot of main line vienna game variations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QQ5sw-SgNw&t

Mikojan fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Sep 24, 2023

WorldIndustries
Dec 21, 2004


definitely one of a kind mind for teaching chess with the written word

there are at least a few chess books by famous players and "with Jeremy Silman" doing some serious work

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Urethane posted:

definitely one of a kind mind for teaching chess with the written word

there are at least a few chess books by famous players and "with Jeremy Silman" doing some serious work

We were just talking about the Winning Chess series.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Youth chess update:

My 7yo went a combined 1-5 in her first two beginner tournaments, but she's game for more, and the tourney director gave her a free year's membership to USCF, I guess as a bonus participation prize. So overall I'm pretty excited for her chess future.

My 5yo who claims beating him is "illegal" says he isn't quite ready for the tournament scene.

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

PerniciousKnid posted:


My 5yo who claims beating him is "illegal" says he isn't quite ready for the tournament scene.

it sounds like he's ready to be world champion 2006-2007

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Spokes posted:

it sounds like he's ready to be world champion 2006-2007

He likes to negotiate mutual rights to promote pawns, maybe he'll be world champ of Diplomacy, and may God have mercy on his soul.

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




PerniciousKnid posted:

He likes to negotiate mutual rights to promote pawns, maybe he'll be world champ of Diplomacy, and may God have mercy on his soul.

Sidereal Confluence: Trading and Negotiation in the Elysian Quadrant would be right up his alley it sounds like

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

Spokes posted:

it sounds like he's ready to be world champion 2006-2007

looked it up on wikipedia and lmfao at how ugly the logo for that was

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Hikaru and Magnus are about to play again :toot:

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.
Does anybody know a good beginner and kid friendly chess youtuber in German or Spanish? It is for my nephew, I don't speak Spanish and really hate the German yt style.

Paperboy
Nov 20, 2018

:shepface:
Man I played what I felt was an excellent game as white given how sharp some of the positions became: https://lichess.org/Bl3R9GbW

Move 29 in particular, I am quite proud of that one.

VictualSquid posted:

Does anybody know a good beginner and kid friendly chess youtuber in German or Spanish? It is for my nephew, I don't speak Spanish and really hate the German yt style.

ChessKid (chess.com kids brand) has a Spanish website with accompanying instructional videos and stuff, which sounds like what you're looking for. For general Spanish chess entertainment "Reydama" on YT seems fine but I don't think that's aimed at beginners in particular, more just Spanish-speaking chess players.

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012
I watched a couple of videos on openings, one on the Italian Game and one on defending against E6. Firstly, there's absolutely no way I'll remember close to the majority of what even a 20 minute video will tell me but equally I'm wondering how useful it'll actually be for me at my low level. I've just signed up to a Lichess account but I can't imagine, once I'm put at the right level, many people playing in a way that the opening doesn't descend to a chaotic mash within a few moves. The lines I'm trying to remember won't be applicable, if I can even remember them.

The reason I wanted to learn even the rudimentaries of a few openings is because I always worry that at the start of a game I'm going to give myself a handicap by making a silly mistake that sets me up for trouble down the line without even realising. And that I'm not hashing out sensible play from an already disadvantaged position.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I'm not very good myself but I don't think learning long strings of moves is a good idea when you're starting out. Even if you remember the "main line" perfectly there's a high chance your opponent will deviate from it at some point (especially at lower levels), and even if their move is "worse" that's meaningless unless you've also learned how to punish each possible "mistake".

Initially you're probably better off learning general opening principals if you haven't already (fighting for the center, which order you'd like to develop your pieces in, being careful with the f-pawn, tactics to look out for etc), especially if you just want to jam E4 which opens up a tonne of options for both players. You could also look into more "setup" based openings like the London System where you can mostly develop your pieces in the same way regardless of what your opponent does and execute a gameplan from there.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
I would sit down and learn exactly how to punish an f-pawn move. 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 is relatively common at low levels, is very easy to punish, but the first move is probably not what a beginner would play.

Paperboy
Nov 20, 2018

:shepface:

Mrenda posted:

The reason I wanted to learn even the rudimentaries of a few openings is because I always worry that at the start of a game I'm going to give myself a handicap by making a silly mistake that sets me up for trouble down the line without even realising. And that I'm not hashing out sensible play from an already disadvantaged position.

Like the fella above said, study general opening principles. Even if you blunder in the opening, if you're just starting out then your opponent will almost definitely give you winning chances later in the game, so long as you are able to see it and capitalize. Imo that's the main skill you want to develop aside from opening principles--tactical vision.

People in low elo games will frequently hang pieces either directly or via short tactics, so that seems like the move to me. Also I recommend picking up a basic, solid opening with clear plans. Maybe Caro Kann or London System. I picked Ruy Lopez when I started off and I kinda regret it tbh but it's paid off long term.

All with a grain of salt since I'm not a great player by any stretch. The now-late Jeremy Silman had several great chess.com blog posts about beginning in chess, I found those useful. This collection seems good too: https://www.chess.com/article/view/study-plan-directory

Glhf :D

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.
Just look at whatever opening line you lost to in the last game. And don't overthink it, studying openings lines is the least important part of chess.

On the other hand find something you enjoy. I really love John Bartholomew's 1d4 course. It is a collection of queen's gambit lines with early Qc2, and it got me to stick with chess after bouncing off the hobby for 20 years.

Also, the strongest opening as black against low elo players is the french Sicilian. 1e4 c4, Bc5 e6. They have no idea how to handle a pawn on e6.

VictualSquid fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Sep 30, 2023

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Mrenda posted:

I watched a couple of videos on openings, one on the Italian Game and one on defending against E6. Firstly, there's absolutely no way I'll remember close to the majority of what even a 20 minute video will tell me but equally I'm wondering how useful it'll actually be for me at my low level. I've just signed up to a Lichess account but I can't imagine, once I'm put at the right level, many people playing in a way that the opening doesn't descend to a chaotic mash within a few moves. The lines I'm trying to remember won't be applicable, if I can even remember them.

The reason I wanted to learn even the rudimentaries of a few openings is because I always worry that at the start of a game I'm going to give myself a handicap by making a silly mistake that sets me up for trouble down the line without even realising. And that I'm not hashing out sensible play from an already disadvantaged position.

Why do you think you're losing your games? Is it because of positional shortcomings or because you're blundering pieces or tactics?

I think the reason people discourage opening theory for beginners is that it's not the low-hanging fruit for improvement. Also, focusing on internalizing opening principles will still help you later whenever you are outside your opening book. I could say "play the Four Knights Italian" but the point isn't for you to memorize lines from a book, you should learn and practice principles like moving each piece once, control the center, knights before bishops, castle early, etc. If you know your principles you'll always have an idea to fall back on; even if you run into a weird opening position you know what you're trying to do.

Arrhythmia posted:

I would sit down and learn exactly how to punish an f-pawn move. 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 is relatively common at low levels, is very easy to punish, but the first move is probably not what a beginner would play.

This is true but I don't think it's step one. First just get the opening principles down. As you start to recognize "hey I'm getting crushed by these specific moves every time", then find the easiest way to counter it. Even then I wouldn't go out of your way to punish openings or activate your trap card as a beginner before Glicko 1300* or so, just find simple moves that get to a playable middle game.

On the other hand, chess is ostensibly something you're doing for fun so if memorizing opening lines is what gets your rocks off then go for it. But it's not the best way to graduate from beginner to novice chess player.

*Rating is arbitrary, really it's "before you stop stepping into forks or blundering pieces constantly".

PerniciousKnid fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 30, 2023

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012

PerniciousKnid posted:

Why do you think you're losing your games? Is it because of positional shortcomings or because you're blundering pieces or tactics?

I haven't played online in quite a while, just OTB against my aunt recently, who's even more of a beginner than me (no idea about development, controlling the centre squares, etc.) and I can beat her. I'm planning on changing that this evening but I'd say if there's one thing that has traditionally destroyed me in online chess it's not being able to conceive of the board/slow down. I played 30+0 games, using about 15 minutes on average, but even then there's something about online/boards on a screen where I find it a lot harder to slow my pace down and actually work through the possibilities compared to an OTB game.

I don't know if this is some inherenet bias in me that online games are less serious, a trick of the mind in taking physical space as more "real," nerves in that OTB I find more amiable because I can actually look at my opponent and say a few words so I'm already slightly tilted/impatient at a "game" online, or simply some conception thing about a tangible space being more present and pressing than an online space I don't know. It's almost like online I feel like I need to hammer out moves, and part of that is definitely hesitancy on openings where I'm worried I'll be looked at badly when I'm taking a full minute on literally my second move when it should be automatic. But for me it feels at that point the possibility space is really opening up and becoming more real with nerves kicking in and no heuristic to go off between what I imagine is rote for any decent player, but I'm not quite yet stuck in tactical maneuvering once a few pieces have been developed.

Reading this thread I saw a few tips for procedures to go through before moving, like checking for any possible checks, then hanging pieces, etc. and having a mental checklist before I do anything.

All that being said, I'm talking a big game right now, but I've only been playing my aunt.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Move each piece once before moving a piece twice (pawns are not pieces)
Knights before bishops
Move toward and control the center
Don't hang pieces (pawns are not pieces)

Follow those rules in the opening. If you're nervous, just play the computer. Analyze your game after ten moves and assess whether you're following the principles. Repeat until you can make the first moves without freezing up, then play people.

You'll lose the first ten games while your rating corrects.

regulargonzalez
Aug 18, 2006
UNGH LET ME LICK THOSE BOOTS DADDY HULU ;-* ;-* ;-* YES YES GIVE ME ALL THE CORPORATE CUMMIES :shepspends: :shepspends: :shepspends: ADBLOCK USERS DESERVE THE DEATH PENALTY, DON'T THEY DADDY?
WHEN THE RICH GET RICHER I GET HORNIER :a2m::a2m::a2m::a2m:

As a counterpoint, starting off as a novice a year ago, learning a basic opening + a couple variations for both white and black helped me a ton. Queen's Gambit as white, along with a couple moves deep into the most common non-QGA lines, and Pirc as black (very easy as it can be played versus almost any white opening and not leave you completely hosed, and it's only 3 or 4 moves to remember).

I probably played those for a few hundred games each and then added logical additions (Catalan as white, and first the French and then Caro Khan as black, though King's Indian is probably the logical next step from Pirc).

That might just be my learning style though, I'm kind of a ground-up rather than top-down learner. Learn the details of a system first and let my brain make the connections to how it relates to general theory rather than vice versa.

One thing I will strongly recommend against is learning trash gambits or scholar mates. The kind of things you see on YT videos with titles "Crush every 500 ELO player with this opening!" They'll work against true beginners and it always feels good to win but you'll waste time learning things that are objectively bad against people even one tier better. I'm no great shakes, 1400 rapid on Lichess, but man do I tend to just brutalize anyone who tries dubious things like the Scandinavian against 1. D4 (and I'm sure a 1800 player would wreck me if they play the Scandinavian but at equal ratings it doesn't seem like a good choice).

cock hero flux
Apr 17, 2011



the caro kann gets recommended constantly and i feel like i gained 200 elo purely off of blowing it up with the accelerated panov attack because the popular guides never teach new players to prepare for it and they end up being forced to play an even worse version of the scandinavian

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Actually just watch Aman's first "Building Habits" video on YouTube, not perfect but it does a good job of showing how to play and make decisions without memorizing. You can still learn an opening if you want to, but you'll still benefit from having principles to fall back on. So, instead of melting your brain trying to calculate ten moves ahead when you're offered an even trade, you just take the trade and move on.

regulargonzalez
Aug 18, 2006
UNGH LET ME LICK THOSE BOOTS DADDY HULU ;-* ;-* ;-* YES YES GIVE ME ALL THE CORPORATE CUMMIES :shepspends: :shepspends: :shepspends: ADBLOCK USERS DESERVE THE DEATH PENALTY, DON'T THEY DADDY?
WHEN THE RICH GET RICHER I GET HORNIER :a2m::a2m::a2m::a2m:

The other thing I would suggest to a new player is play 15 min + 5 second increment or 15 + 10 at a minimum. Longer is even better. You not only need time to calculate, you need to learn how to calculate.

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer
I think the Building Habits series does a really good job of explaining the right way to "study" openings, as well.

Pick a real opening that follows the normal rules of development (QG, London, Italian, Scotch, etc) and stick with it. Know your first 3-4 moves and don't worry much about anything else. When someone does something weird, follow your development rules then after go back and look at what they did, and how you responded. Was it OK, or did you get checkmated in 10 moves? Or did you end up with a pawn shoved in your face and moving your Knight 5 times in a row? When something like that happens, go back to the computer and learn one more move. "When they move their Knight there, I'm supposed to push the pawn." And that's it. Over time you'll organically build up an opening rep against the moves you actually see without grinding a ton of positions you'll get once in a thousand games.

You're definitely going to lose games to some dumb gambits, but falling into traps makes them memorable. You'll remember losing your Queen on T4 a lot easier when it happens than doing a course 10 times with a note that says, "Move here or else you lose your Queen!"

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012

PerniciousKnid posted:

Actually just watch Aman's first "Building Habits" video on YouTube, not perfect but it does a good job of showing how to play and make decisions without memorizing. You can still learn an opening if you want to, but you'll still benefit from having principles to fall back on. So, instead of melting your brain trying to calculate ten moves ahead when you're offered an even trade, you just take the trade and move on.

Thanks for recomending this. I've been watching it and the dude is great. It's actually telling me more what not to do instead of what to do. I think I've read enough that I'm absolutely overthinking things with absolutely no right to be having those thoughts in my head. Stuff like evaluating trades not on the simple value of them but trying to figure out their importance on the board, which side is open, etc. I'm trying to figure out what that stuff is and also trying to play and I really shouldn't be. The videos are basically reminding me to strip back my thought process and just keep it simple (stupid) and play what's in front of me. I'll accept my rating tanking if it means I have some good very, very basic foundations. My rating would have tanked anyway, but it's easier to just dismiss it if I think of it as "learning" and matchmaking rather than the final arbiter of my abillity. I don't really have ability yet, despite having thoughts flying through my head.

I've had more fun tonight in chess than I ever did before. And I've won one game out of seven.

Huxley posted:

I think the Building Habits series does a really good job of explaining the right way to "study" openings, as well.

Pick a real opening that follows the normal rules of development (QG, London, Italian, Scotch, etc) and stick with it.

Yep. This is what I've done. Looked at the first four or so moves of The Italian (which is pretty simple) and seeing where that takes me. Like I said, my most enjoyable night of chess so far. Especially knowing there's some basis in how I'm starting and I'm not just flailing around.

Helianthus Annuus
Feb 21, 2006

can i touch your hand
Grimey Drawer
find the only move for black in this position! i played Qa6 for the loss.



answer: Ra8

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
I was looking at Winning Chess Opening and realized it didn't have anything to say about the London, which I was curious about. So I flipped through a copy of Fundamental Chess Opening, and didn't find anything there either. Am I crazy? I thought the London system was somewhat common, aren't there any beginner books that discuss it?

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.

PerniciousKnid posted:

I was looking at Winning Chess Opening and realized it didn't have anything to say about the London, which I was curious about. So I flipped through a copy of Fundamental Chess Opening, and didn't find anything there either. Am I crazy? I thought the London system was somewhat common, aren't there any beginner books that discuss it?

I don't know those books. But, the London was a considered a mediocre opening for boring people who are also to lazy to learn openings until very recently. With most theory focussing on how to play for a win as black.

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Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012


Nice!

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