|
Veritek83 posted:just wait for Gen Con next year and look for an unguarded pallet I would like to read about someone going to jail for "steal" ai-generated slop.
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 17:34 |
|
|
Your honor, I was attempting to return stolen art assets to their creators. CASE DISMISSED
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2023 19:47
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:But the last w20 book has a preface from the new paradox management about how they're going to be making some changes around here and it's full of  I keep forgetting that happened. I think my brain destroys the information to protect itself, but then I run into the story and the cycle happens again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2023 21:51
|
|
like how all women really desperately want to have babies and if they say they don't they're lying. Also werewolf sperm can overcome any form of contraception including loving diaphragms. Also some deeply transphobic poo poo I won't repeat. The author came out and said all of those were dictates from swedracula.
|
If your Parker is Posey, things are rosy If your Posie be Parker, things be darker
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 02:35
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:If your Parker is Posey, things are rosy
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 02:51
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Is there some groundswell of criticism of hiring artists in Eastern Europe or Asia? Then again, emphasizing the race purity of the artist may be a way to appeal to a certain portion of the potential market for a Viking game. There's also some fairly cheeky suggestions that the Gentry got the idea for alien abductions from somewhere, and it might not just have been from rednecks recounting garbled memories of Outer Limits episodes to credulous journalists. On another note, hearing about how Beast happened makes me think it seems more like it got pulled in a bunch of directions thanks to wild mismanagement and as a result the abuse apologia was the only coherent creative voice that remained in the end result. A bit of a pity given Promethean has very relatable vibes for neurodivergent and queer people, 'Everyone around me seems to come to hate me for no good reason', but figures eventually the mask comes off and turns out everyone does come to hate you for very good reasons. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Sep 24, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 04:34
|
|
|
One of the most depressing things from the rpg.net thread was a girl talking about how Beast spoke to her because she had an eating disorder.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 05:45
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:One of the most depressing things from the rpg.net thread was a girl talking about how Beast spoke to her because she had an eating disorder. There was a lot of depressing copium, I believe the youth call it, on the Big Purple when it was coming out. I think that's where we got 'no, actually, the bed-ridden girl is a monster.'
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 16:32
|
|
|
My biggest issues with both versions of Werewolf as a game was that they make each individual werewolf too strong and there’s little to differentiate between different werwolf PCs mechanically. Like IRL wolves aren’t effective predators because they destroy anything in their path. They’re effective because they are social predators who can use pack tactics to take down larger animals. A single wolf fighting a moose or a bear is a dead wolf. Yet these games decide to make werewolves these unstoppable killing machines where even a single one can take down an entire group of humans or other supernaturals. The only incentive to be in a pack is “well, the GM wants more than one player”, and so they resemble less werewolves of folklore and more “The Incredible Hulk with fur and claws” and any sense of tactics or problem solving is reduced to “hit it until it can’t soak anymore aggravated damage.” Then you have all the Auspice/Tribe traits that are supposed to create some distinction between PCs, but all these really boil down to is “a grab bag of powers, none of which is as reliable as turning into a murder machine.” For all of Vampire’s flaws, it was good at establishing a baseline of what every vampire PC could do while also having enough mechanical variance for each PC to have a specific niche (Brujah had good combat Disciplines, Ventrue could social encounters, Malks were better at infiltration, etc). It’d be nice to have the ability to make a werewolf that is *bad* at combat, but with the default stat boosts and adds of all the forms, that’s not really possible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 17:30
|
|
|
Froghammer posted:Naomi Klein wrote a whole book about what it's like to have people constantly confuse you with a fascist with a similar-sounding name if Naomi be Klein, things will be fine If Naome be Wolf, oh brother, oof.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 18:21
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Nah. W20 was extremely well received and sold well. And most of the followup books did as well as those would be expected to. But the last w20 book has a preface from the new paradox management about how they're going to be making some changes around here and it's full of Where do these people get all this money. I'm guessing it's family businesses built on tax fraud and the heirs get their chunk of the pie to blow on things like this, and if they break even or don't eat into the seed corn too hard they can make it go a long, long way.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Which one was that, Changing Ways? Yeah, Changing Ways. Instead of the Black Furies being split on the matter, they all became rabidly (heh, dog joke) pro-life. Whole bunch of awful.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 20:44
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Yeah, Changing Ways. Instead of the Black Furies being split on the matter, they all became rabidly (heh, dog joke) pro-life. Whole bunch of awful.  content in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 21:04
|
|
|
My issue with the new Werewolf the Apocalypse is I want WtA to be the ecowarrior RPG about fixing problems by pulling out Malevolanto executives intestines' out of their torsos. Whereas the game takes a hectoring line that corporations aren't necessarily bad and what you should be doing is driving a Prius and circulating Change.org petitions. It's meant to be the direct action RPG, I don't care that its "not realistic" let me have my fun.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 21:18
|
|
|
Doing all that other stuff is a vital way to build context, tone, and emotional energy so that when you rage, it means something instead of just being "you roll 7 successes to kill David Koch! Hooray!" But if you don't loving wolf out and gut some Pentex executives, or the Black Spiral who poisoned your home town, or the Urge-Wyrm of Deforestation, what the gently caress are you doing, man.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 22:05
|
|
|
A lot of allegedly-revolutionary RPGs have extensive amounts of hand-wringing about never going too far or you'll become the monster you blah blah blah. Like if D&D put all its guns in your hand but also gave you a note not to hurt anyone with them or you'll lose the moral high-ground.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2023 22:28
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Doing all that other stuff is a vital way to build context, tone, and emotional energy so that when you rage, it means something instead of just being "you roll 7 successes to kill David Koch! Hooray!" But if you don't loving wolf out and gut some Pentex executives, or the Black Spiral who poisoned your home town, or the Urge-Wyrm of Deforestation, what the gently caress are you doing, man. You don't even have to be a murder machine. It's totally available to any Garou, which makes them a nightmare for cross-splat play, but you can do a ton of more interesting things with Gifts and Rites that make for a more interesting toolbox. Several of the tribes are explicitly mechanically built around that, even. Children of Gaia, Bone Gnawers, Silent Striders, or Glass Walkers all have better options than going Crinos and throwing down as a first plan. One of the things I found vital for W:TA was scaling threats appropriately such that pack tactics were necessary for survival. The best combat encounter I every played was a GM who put us up against a giant pollution-based Bane that spawned out of a hog confinement facility's enormous fecal storage that a local group of fomori had been dumping further chemicals in. It was something he put out as a plot thread early in the campaign and we ignored, so it just got progressively worse scaling with us. We only had two PCs still standing at the end of that fight, one who was down an arm and the other the Theurge who finally managed to banish the drat thing once the rest had weakened it. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Sep 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 02:14
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:There was a lot of depressing copium, I believe the youth call it, on the Big Purple when it was coming out. I think that's where we got 'no, actually, the bed-ridden girl is a monster.' That thread got me banned from RPG.net (temporarily but I just stopped posting anyway) and soured me on WoD as a whole, good times
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 02:53
|
|
|
I hope the writers on Trinity get treated well by OPP cause it’s great stuff. A very good update carrying on the spirit of the original.Traveller posted:That thread got me banned from RPG.net (temporarily but I just stopped posting anyway) and soured me on WoD as a whole, good times It’s what got me perma’d (I was ArninoStorm).
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 05:45
|
|
|
Same, as well as for the writers of Deviant, which feels like the best thing to come out of the CofD in a long time. I’d argue that Deviant is actually more of a spiritual successor to W:tA than Forsaken is, in terms of thematic similarity. In both Deviant and Apocalypse, you are a superpowered being defined by your righteous anger against the forces corrupting the world. But it’s even more personal, because they corrupted *you* as well. So you have the same gameplay loop of constant superhuman guerilla warfare between you and your found family vs. the systems hurting us all. It’s the “Doom Patrol vs. The Military-Industrial Complex” game I’ve always wanted, as opposed to the “X-Men, but everyone is the worst versions of Wolverine” game that W:tA became.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 10:39
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:I hope the writers on Trinity get treated well by OPP cause it’s great stuff. A very good update carrying on the spirit of the original. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 14:25
|
|
|
sasha_d3ath posted:A lot of allegedly-revolutionary RPGs have extensive amounts of hand-wringing about never going too far or you'll become the monster you blah blah blah. Like if D&D put all its guns in your hand but also gave you a note not to hurt anyone with them or you'll lose the moral high-ground. That’s easy, just smugly announce to your foe “I have the moral high-ground” and when they attack you, unleash the everything against them but then refuse to actually kill them so they can become the main recurring baddy of the campaign, later. It is remarkable the extent to which White Wolf’s successors have shied away from one kind of controversy while apparently welcoming all sorts of others. I suppose WoD being owned by a corporation might have something to do with it. It does feel a bit odd to be playing D&D, where it’s perfectly fine to be the local lawful good murderhobos, and then to jump to Murder: The Hoboing and find the game has a whole morality system where you become a monster/NPC if you actually kill people. It’s like discovering that the horrible mind-destroying monstrosities from beyond in Call of Cthulhu are actually hyper-concerned about sticking to their Beyond Time and Space morality track for fear of going “mad” but only if they’re main characters in the story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 15:24
|
|
|
Eh, I think that's just a further extension of how revolution and the morality thereof is portrayed in media as a whole. The media, like every other aspect of our society, is ultimately a tool controlled by corporations and conglomerates whose control over our hierarchical power structure is largely dependent of buy-in on the part of the working public, so they have a vested interest in presenting revolutionary activity as needing to be governed by certain moral limitations. And that's not even to say that the situation at White Wolf is the direct result of corporate pressure as it could just as easily be the case of the developers having internalized the narrative that's been pushed by our corporate overlords for the past century to the point it's just become unquestioned truth... That also just reminds me of an incident in a game I played in where our group had started a revolution against an oppressive monarchy and, in the midst of revolution going on, one of our players was trying to broker an alliance with some nobles who had holed themselves up in an estate when they became surrounded by a mob of revolutionaries demanding to know what she was up to dealing with the enemy. Faced with having to placate the mob without alienating the nobles who were standing right beside her, the player (Who IRL identifies as a "classical liberal" in the most insufferable way possible) decided to...try to shame the mob about "going to far" in an unbearably condescending way. When the mob did not react to this particularly well the player just...kept doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
KingKalamari posted:Eh, I think that's just a further extension of how revolution and the morality thereof is portrayed in media as a whole. The media, like every other aspect of our society, is ultimately a tool controlled by corporations and conglomerates whose control over our hierarchical power structure is largely dependent of buy-in on the part of the working public, so they have a vested interest in presenting revolutionary activity as needing to be governed by certain moral limitations. And that's not even to say that the situation at White Wolf is the direct result of corporate pressure as it could just as easily be the case of the developers having internalized the narrative that's been pushed by our corporate overlords for the past century to the point it's just become unquestioned truth... Did the rioting mob eat the rich or what my dude? Don't leave me in suspense here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 18:05
|
|
|
After far too long of the player not seeming to realize that touching the hot stove was going to burn them the GM had to finally step in and give them a solution - That is, tell the mob to get the guy leading the revolutionary faction we'd been dealing with to come in and mediate the situation. There was unfortunately no eating of the particular rich in question, but damned if there shouldn't have been...
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 18:10
|
|
|
While that player is eminently mockable that is generally a skill GMs need to have as players will lock themselves into trying something they think should work for one reason or another, and breaking them out of that with gentle or not-so-gentle hints is an important skill.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
Oh, 100%, I just meant that if my character had been directly involved in that sequence (I was taking care of some other stuff outside of town at the time) we would have gone with the solution that was far less favorable to the nobility
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2023 20:12
|
|
|
sasha_d3ath posted:A lot of allegedly-revolutionary RPGs have extensive amounts of hand-wringing about never going too far or you'll become the monster you blah blah blah. Like if D&D put all its guns in your hand but also gave you a note not to hurt anyone with them or you'll lose the moral high-ground. I always thought that the point was to narrate a story where you go too far and you become a monster. At least, that what always happens in my VtM campaigns to at least a couple of PCs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 11:18
|
|
|
Well sure, but Vampire isn't really a game about revolution or fighting the system, it's a game about "you're a monster and how do you deal with that?" Giving in and deciding to embrace being a monster is one obvious endpoint to that sort of story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 12:25
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Well sure, but Vampire isn't really a game about revolution or fighting the system, it's a game about "you're a monster and how do you deal with that?" Giving in and deciding to embrace being a monster is one obvious endpoint to that sort of story. From what I've heard of the 5th edition metaplot changes, such as making Anarchs more prominent than the Sabbat and upsetting some elder power structures, certainly seem more conducive to some idea of revolution, in the "So did the divine right of kings" sort of way. Not sure if it's the right choice for a revolutionary game, but I honestly don't know what I'd choose even if that was what everyone wanted. It's something that's made me wonder about the Root game and it's idea of being somewhat political; am I going to be the bird equivalent of Thomas Paine or something?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 12:40
|
|
|
Vampires as bourgeois revolting against the monarchy works pretty well, I think, but kind of requires you to let go of romantic notions about bourgeois revolutions, which may be a stumbling block depending on when your game's set and what you draw inspiration from.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 13:19
|
|
|
Yeah to be clear it's not that you can't run games about revolutions using Vampire, but I'm distinguishing between "can use a game for this" and "the game is about this as a major theme and goal," similar to how you can use D&D to run a game about a revolution if you want, but I would not call D&D a game about revolutions. Werewolf the Apocalypse is much more a game that is, ostensibly, about fighting a world-threatening corruption which happens to largely be embodied by a massive megacorporation, so if it is (as was stated earlier) equivocating on the whole "well violence against corporations maybe isn't the answer I dunno guys" then that lines up a lot more with the "putting a gun in your hands and then chiding you for using it" critique.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 14:02
|
|
|
Imho Requiem is better than Masquarade for revolution game as it strips metaplot and associated setting stuff and gives you space for nice fight between prince, his barons, their cronies and your coalition of vamps that consider mortals to be proletariat, vamps that consider mortals to be labor, vamps that want to go hard right, vamps that want anarchy and vamps that want to turn themselves into hive mind.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 14:10
|
|
|
Wraith's Hierarchy is right there if you want a game about the dubious nature/necessity of authority.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 14:22
|
|
|
moths posted:Wraith's Hierarchy is right there if you want a game about the dubious nature/necessity of authority. They have some pretty understandable motivations! Oblivion seems bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 14:30
|
|
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:They have some pretty understandable motivations! Oblivion seems bad. It's a real Homer Simpson buying an evil doll situation. "They forge wraiths into weapons." "That's bad." "That they then use to fight against Oblivion." "That's good!" Etc.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 14:39
|
|
|
The Hierarchy in Wraith is kind of like the Imperium in 40K without the fascism. It's a monolithic, oppressive, imperialist regime that was much nicer many thousands of years prior to the game start date but is definitely necessary due to said Oblivion, Chaos in the case of 40K, and if it were to lapse for a bit, everything would be destroyed by the forces of entropy and mankind would probably be doomed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 15:58
|
|
|
If you're saying the Hierarchy is a good and needed thing, I think you missed something because the Hierarchy is not, nor has it ever been "Good", threat of Oblivion or otherwise. The groups in power (the Cam, the Hierarchy, etc) in the WoD are pretty clearly "The Man" you're supposed to be raging against.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:06
|
|
|
RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The Hierarchy in Wraith is kind of like the Imperium in 40K without the fascism. It's a monolithic, oppressive, imperialist regime that was much nicer many thousands of years prior to the game start date but is definitely necessary due to said Oblivion, Chaos in the case of 40K, and if it were to lapse for a bit, everything would be destroyed by the forces of entropy and mankind would probably be doomed. Without the Imperium Chaos might still exist, but it wouldn't remain the existential threat it is in modern day 40k.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 17:34 |
|
|
sasha_d3ath posted:A lot of allegedly-revolutionary RPGs have extensive amounts of hand-wringing about never going too far or you'll become the monster you blah blah blah. Like if D&D put all its guns in your hand but also gave you a note not to hurt anyone with them or you'll lose the moral high-ground. dnd is really bad at encouraging good player behavior and it started with gary gygax suggesting you punish them in increasingly larger ways through the game such as getting zapped by lighting from angry gods instead of telling the shithead to stop being a shithead or they can loving leave your house I have read many an rpg where they have attempted the Gygax Solution(having good player behavior be something that comes through mechanics instead of social skills) and there is no sign of it stopping. Anyway here's an XP for good roleplaying
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:19
|
|