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Ornery and Hornery posted:Sure PCJS have had more good than bad in terms of regular season W-L but not in terms of process or playoff production. Someone doesn't remember the coaches we had before Pete.
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Sep 25, 2023 20:46
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Carroll is a good coach. I don’t think the Seahawks are going to be any better than a Wild Card team with him at this point, but it’s pretty unlikely that they find anyone better and he’s old enough that he will probably retire on his own in a few years. Might as well just ride it out.
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Sep 25, 2023 20:47
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feller posted:Can't wait until the seahawks fire pete and hire their very own tomsula I'm into it; you just know he has a recipe in his back pocket for a hobo stew that incorporates geoduck, venison backstrap, and leftover pad thai. full of tips and tricks for gaming the ferry system and sounder express
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Sep 25, 2023 21:03
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Sure PCJS have had more good than bad in terms of regular season W-L but not in terms of process or playoff production. This is some extreme Decade of Spectacular Failure poo poo Bad coaches don't have a .612 winning percentage with 10 playoff appearances in 13 years. And if you wanna scoff at the lack of playoff wins, I can point to several teams based in Colorado, Illinois, and the greater New Jersey area to see what the alternative looks like.
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Sep 25, 2023 21:56
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There was really never any point after the Super Bowl loss where you could argue the Hawks were any better than the 3rd best team in the league. Maybe it's my sports PTSD, but there was never a sense we'd beat the playoff teams we lost to, or that talent-wise we were real contenders. Not Carolina, not Green Bay, not even Dallas that one year. For as wild and crazy as most of our regular season games have been over the years, our playoff games since SB49 have mostly been pretty bland affairs except the Vikings game. We've beaten who we were favored against but never upset anyone, either.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:27
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Yeah I’ve never really had the feeling of “this is it, we’re genuine contenders!” since 49 but rushing to dump a pretty consistent staff just because they haven’t been even better feels silly when you look at how terrible teams can be. PCJS can be frustrating, but man we could have it so much worse.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:42
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I'll have you know that even though they may not win any given game because football is a high variance game, the Seahawks of Seattle are the second greatest force known to man.
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Sep 25, 2023 22:58
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Nervous posted:I'll have you know that even though they may not win any given game because football is a high variance game, the Seahawks of Seattle are the second greatest force known to man. What's #1? Establishing the Run?
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Sep 25, 2023 23:06
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The defense has been bad for 5 straight years and he's a defensive coach. I'm a seahawks Homer and thought they had a shot to compete and win playoff games up until 2020ish after they just collapsed during the let russ cook season. Just the same problem of allowing a million yards and 8min drives to the opponent with a hot and cold offense. They start the season so flat almost every year. The drafting has been mostly headscratchingly bad which I think lends to why Pete is a good coach overall since these teams have been competitive with mostly random but I just don't see the seahawks winning a superbowl with him at the helm. The grass is not always greener but that's kind of my barometer "do you believe they can when a superbowl with this coach". If the answer is no then what are you doing. I was a "yes" on that question until the last few years
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Sep 25, 2023 23:14
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It's unrealistic to expect superbowl runs. Like, they're incredibly rare, even for extremely good coaches. You can expect to make the playoffs regularly with a really good coach and GM putting together a good team, and guys like pete caroll and mike tomlin do that year after year after year for very long stretches and IMO that's the best you can really demand from your team. Getting a combo like bill bellichek + tom brady or andy reid + patrick mahomes for a decade is just incredible luck, something you can't plan for and is unrealistic to even hope for. If you fire your pete carolls of the world because your routine playoff runs just don't go deep enough, you are far more likely to wind up regressing than finding the magic combo. e. like I get the frustration, it's very human and normal, I just will kind of lol a lot if they actually fired pete caroll and then wound up with a situation resembling the last 30 years of cleveland browns football Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 23:16
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feller posted:Also, he just did this https://twitter.com/KNBR/status/1706360777903575471?t=27Q1u5HxIHFwJUKd91qeLg&s=19 Omg he looks so happy 
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Sep 25, 2023 23:21
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Peachfart posted:Someone doesn't remember the coaches we had before Pete. Holmgren was a great coach. TR was not an ideal GM.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:22
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Leperflesh posted:It's unrealistic to expect superbowl runs. The question is "do.you think its possible that the team will EVER win a superbowl with this coach moving forward" It's not that I'm expecting a run every year but when I take a step back I do want to think its possible for the team to win a superbowl with that coach (with all the luck and stuff that obviously goes into that) for me to think the coach is a good fit for the team moving forward And for me it's only been the last few years where I didn't believe that was possible with Pete. Edit: but a 7 win floor for a team makes for fun seasons as a fan EmbryoSteve fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 23:25
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Leperflesh posted:It's unrealistic to expect superbowl runs. Like, they're incredibly rare, even for extremely good coaches. You can expect to make the playoffs regularly with a really good coach and GM putting together a good team, and guys like pete caroll and mike tomlin do that year after year after year for very long stretches and IMO that's the best you can really demand from your team. Getting a combo like bill bellichek + tom brady or andy reid + patrick mahomes for a decade is just incredible luck, something you can't plan for and is unrealistic to even hope for. Devils advocate here because I just said Carroll is a good coach but he and Tomlin seem to both ne in that “post franchise QB zone” there they’re putting out 7-9 wins seasons and maybe squeaking into the playoffs due to an expanded field where they promptly get bounced in the wild card. They’re good coaches putting together decent teams but for the last few years neither team has looked capable of going on a deep playoff run. The NFC is so dogshit right now that making the playoffs at all should be the minimum expected of a coach.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:28
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EmbryoSteve posted:The question is "do.you think its possible that the team will EVER win a superbowl with this coach moving forward" YOLOsubmarine posted:Devils advocate here because I just said Carroll is a good coach but he and Tomlin seem to both ne in that “post franchise QB zone” there they’re putting out 7-9 wins seasons and maybe squeaking into the playoffs due to an expanded field where they promptly get bounced in the wild card. I think the evaluation of a coach shouldn't be this strictly results-oriented. A coach with a dogshit (or horribly injured) team can't make the playoffs. I think the minimum expected of a coach is to meet expectations, which is tautological but if you set reasonable expectations based on the players the coach is given, then you're OK, wheras if you obviously have talent and can't seem to win games, you're a bad coach. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 23:28
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I would say the only reason the "super bowl ever" with Carrol is a possible no is because of his age. Like there's a good chance the Niners never win a SB with Shanahan, because winning a SB takes a fair amount of luck unless you have some wild outlier like Mahomes.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:30
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Leperflesh posted:I mean like he's literally done it before, ten years ago, and I get if you feel like he's declined to the point where it's impossible now. I guess I just think there's probably at any given time, maybe not more than... 12? coaches in the league I'd believe could win a SB, and most of those will never get the chance. Okay so all Pete needs is; 3 hall of fame defensive players, in their prime, on rookie deals; 2 hall of very good defensive players, in their prime, on rookie deals; a hall of very good franchise quarterback on a third round rookie deal; and the offenses around the league to go back to a style which gets thumped by cover-3. Other coaches have won super bowls with substantively less talent. And I’m not even grading Pete just on “ringz”. The playoff performance has been dreadful when taking talent into consideration. He gets routinely out coached and frustratingly a lot of the errors are self-inflicted from conscious decisions. I’m not impressed that he managed to get to the playoffs a bunch in a historically weak division when he had Russell Wilson. *Every* team with a franchise quarterback should make the playoffs. 12 and now 14 teams make the playoffs. There usually aren’t that many franchise qbs in the league. Pete himself acknowledged that he would have been fired earlier in his tenure if he had not had Wilson.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:37
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I will say that after the Super Bowl years the team definitely has had a bad trend of coming out flat and unprepared for playoff games. Carolina, Atlanta, Green Bay, Rams, to name a few. Terrible old man football gameplans on offense and/or getting carved up on defense, which put us in situations even RWBS couldn't overcome. For the most part, the Hawks have been gatekeepers to the Divisional Round, just like the Packers (and now I guess the Niners  ) have been gatekeepers to the Championship Games.
Manoueverable fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 23:39
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quote:The Seattle Seahawks coach admitted following Monday night's woeful offensive performance in 13-10 loss to the New Orleans Saints that he probably wouldn't have lasted into his 12th season with the club if it weren't for Russell Wilson. https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-coach-pete-carroll-i-probably-wouldn-t-have-been-here-a-long-time-witho
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Sep 25, 2023 23:43
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Given how short the season is and the fact that playoffs are one and done; I don't think it's reasonable to expect a Superbowl at all unless you have an outlier like Brady or Mahomes. There's just too many pure random variables (mostly injury luck) that can completely change a season. It's not like having Trevon Diggs would have won the Cowboys the game yesterday but who knows, maybe he would have. If a coach can consistently get to the playoffs, that's probably the best you can reasonably expect unless you have a Mahomes. Edit: The easiest path to the playoffs is winning your division and by that metric, the Seahawks have been pretty successful winning 5 times between 2010-2023. That's more then any other team in the division. OGS-Remix fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Sep 25, 2023 |
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Sep 25, 2023 23:44
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Ornery and Hornery posted:https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-coach-pete-carroll-i-probably-wouldn-t-have-been-here-a-long-time-witho Totally true, which is why it is so odd to just see him fall off a cliff in Denver.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:44
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Give me Ben Johnson at HC and at GM give me the TFF goon hive mind.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:44
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OGS-Remix posted:If a coach can consistently get to the playoffs, that's probably the best you can reasonably expect unless you have a Mahomes. Any team with a franchise qb should consistently get to the playoffs. If they don’t, then the coach is garbage. Although in the coming years maybe that’s not the case for the AFC because they keep adding all the young premier QB draft prospects lol
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Sep 25, 2023 23:46
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Ornery and Hornery posted:*Every* team with a franchise quarterback should make the playoffs. 12 and now 14 teams make the playoffs. There usually aren’t that many franchise qbs in the league. Pete himself acknowledged that he would have been fired earlier in his tenure if he had not had Wilson. I guess I have a bit of a different take. I think there's been quite a lot of QBs who could have been "a franchise quarterback" with the right coach, but never got that mix that made it work; and vise-versa, a lot of middling QBs who spent at least a few years as The Guy because they had a great coach. And of course a football team is a lot more than just a coach and a QB. I think if you've literally won a superbowl, that matters. Yeah your QB bailed you out a bunch of times when you had a bad play call: I think that's probably a thing most coaches who have had a great QB have seen. Similarly great coaching (including play calling, time management, etc. during a game but also especially all the stuff that goes into building a staff, training players, game planning) can enormously elevate the on-field performance for players.  I'm not trying to be a big contrarian or whatever, you guys have some good points about the specific points of failure for the seahawks. But I'd wager that you can look at every team that has ever lost a playoff game, and identify points of failure, for the coaches and the players.
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Sep 25, 2023 23:49
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Again my threshold isn't "I expect a superbowl" it's more of I want a coach where I think "a superbowl is possible with this coach"
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Sep 25, 2023 23:54
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I mean Russ fell off a cliff the moment he wasn't on a Carroll team and I don't think you can entirely attribute that to physical decline
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Sep 26, 2023 00:07
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I’m also hornery for a GM who drafts OL. Give me the big boys.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:08
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Seahawks at Giants next Monday night Clownball potential
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Sep 26, 2023 00:16
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Ornery and Hornery posted:I’m also hornery for a GM who drafts OL. Give me the big boys. 
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Sep 26, 2023 00:23
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Papercut posted:I mean Russ fell off a cliff the moment he wasn't on a Carroll team and I don't think you can entirely attribute that to physical decline He was running hot and cold for a few years before that and his WR group in Denver is a big step down. I think he was obviously declining even in Seattle and the combination of going to a team with horrible coaching and middling talent, physical decline, and his struggles playing in structure made it look like he just hit the wall all at once.
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Sep 26, 2023 00:36
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pete is a very good coach with some very bad actual playcalling instincts
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Sep 26, 2023 00:40
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YOLOsubmarine posted:He was running hot and cold for a few years before that and his WR group in Denver is a big step down. I think he was obviously declining even in Seattle and the combination of going to a team with horrible coaching and middling talent, physical decline, and his struggles playing in structure made it look like he just hit the wall all at once. I still think there is at least one more element, but I do agree with this. He was never less than good, but the last couple of seasons in Seattle he wasn't always the sure thing he had been in previous seasons and even if he ended up being great in Denver, I think it was the right time for both to move on. He also always had a great WR lineup and usually at least a decent TE to target the whole time which you can't say about his short time in Denver. I would have blamed it heavily on coaching, but early on Payton doesn't appear to have made him more than average for a starting QB and he won't have the advantage of "experience and conditioning" making things better.
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Sep 26, 2023 02:36
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Pete is a really good coach with some frustrating weaknesses that people can get tired of watching after a decade and a half but if you want to see the alternative check out what just happened when Denver hired a Serious Coach with a Superbowl Pedigree That's what it can look like when the team makes an exciting hire, even! Anyway I'm enjoying watching this team, when Geno gets rolling it's fun to watch and that's what I care about. They ought to beat the Giants and hit their bye at 3-1. At that point you've won too many games for a high draft pick. Maybe their dudes finally get healthy and they gel. Probably not, but if I didn't hope for that then why am I watching it's gambling I'm watching because gambling
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Sep 26, 2023 04:24
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well whatever, who wants a bluesky code
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Sep 26, 2023 04:26
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the cardinals still won't be able to beat this rams team we never can
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Sep 26, 2023 04:26
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Qwijib0 posted:the cardinals still won't be able to beat this rams team Same old sorry rear end rams
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Sep 26, 2023 04:28
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Rams still not very good, it’s going to be a long weird season
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Sep 26, 2023 04:39
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Really, the surest sign that I won't believe in the Hawks doing anything major this season is the fact that they got blown the gently caress out by the Rams.
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Sep 26, 2023 04:43
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mllaneza posted:Speaking of rushing, former 49er Raheem Mostert had three TDs against the Broncos today. Miami's other RB had two. That's 285 yards rushing between the two. warms the heart to see Mostert proselytizing for The Runligion in another division
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Sep 26, 2023 04:44
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Mustached Demon posted:What's #1? Establishing the Run? Abba.
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Sep 26, 2023 04:49
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