|
socialsecurity posted:Key word there is competitive, which for the most part the Green's are not. Agreed. Still, they must hold some sort of significant power given that they are responsible for Al Gore & Hillary Clinton losing.
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 19:42 |
|
|
they are spoilering the elections, pray they don't spoiler them further
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:31
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Not that you don't already know this and it's just more fun to peddle disengenuous bullshit, but the Greens DO run people for lower office. There was a large amount of talking about the few lower offices the greens hold on this very page. How about instead of vague insinuations about posters here you expose some of the positives about the Green party because I haven't seen any of that yet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:31
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:There was a large amount of talking about the few lower offices the greens hold on this very page. How about instead of vague insinuations about posters here you expose some of the positives about the Green party because I haven't seen any of that yet. I was literally replying to a post that said "Greens don't run anyone for lower office."
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:33
|
|
|
If folks are going to relitigate Bush v. Gore here, I'd ask that you at least do it without just shitposting back and forth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:36
|
|
|
the_steve posted:I was literally replying to a post that said "Greens don't run anyone for lower office." Then you went on to say how it never gets acknowledged despite a whole page of posts acknowledging that you skipped over. So what are the positives/reasons to vote for the Green party besides "not the dems"
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:37
|
|
|
Alabama's Solicitor General would be eating a lot of crow right now if he were capable of feeling shame. After their initially gerrymandered map was shot down for stacking Black voters in a single district and they were instructed to create a pair of opportunity districts, he (by all appearances) drew a map for the legislature that ignored the courts in order to get the issue in front of Kavanaugh. They were taken to court to defend it, where even the Trump Judges told them to gently caress off. But that's what they wanted, because this was the case they'd use to kill off the VRA once and for all and Thomas and Kavanaugh and Roberts would physically fight to get to write the opinion. https://twitter.com/stevenmazie/status/1706667091099873686 Oops! The courts have drawn a trio of maps to choose from that will be implemented for 2024, all three of which ensure there'll be an extra Dem rep from: https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1706434371702431933 Paracaidas fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Sep 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:42
|
|
|
If the greens were a viable and distinct alternative they wouldn't be allowed to exist, we didn't get where we are via the two parties being vulnerable to challenges. Electoralism is a dead end, vote for whatever you can live with. Or don't vote, who cares. For all the crowing about reforming the party from within, we have decades of examples of politicians aspiring to change the party, before being subsumed into the system. One of them was House speaker!
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:46
|
|
|
in Massachusetts the Green Party affiliated is the Green-Rainbow party which is the absolute dumbest loving name of a party imaginable
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:49
|
|
|
A bunch more Dem Senators have released calls for Menendez to resign this morning, the dam appears to have been broken on that. https://twitter.com/SenBooker/status/1706689173392851098 https://twitter.com/SenMarkKelly/status/1706692553062367563 https://twitter.com/SenatorBaldwin/status/1706655101354397754 https://twitter.com/SenatorHeinrich/status/1706684086364832245 https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/status/1706670741008314598 https://twitter.com/SenatorTester/status/1706660998302548408 Piell fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Sep 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:51
|
|
|
The bar has been set for unacceptable bribery in congress, and it's apparently "swinging a burlap sack full of gold bars around while texting everyone about how bribable you are and googling how much a gold bar is worth" Hell of a bar, but hopefully, through incremental progress, we might lower it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 16:54
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:The bar has been set for unacceptable bribery in congress, and it's apparently "swinging a burlap sack full of gold bars around while texting everyone about how bribable you are and googling how much a gold bar is worth" Lol, it really is cartoonish
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
VideoGameVet posted:How many people died in Iraq because of Ralph's ego? This is probably not the line of argument you want to go down, considering that our current president had a far more direct impact on the Iraq War by voting to approve it. If you don't want to vote for a Green candidate because you think Nader has Iraqi blood on his hands, then you absolutely should not vote for Biden either.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:If the greens were a viable and distinct alternative they wouldn't be allowed to exist, we didn't get where we are via the two parties being vulnerable to challenges. Electoralism is a dead end, vote for whatever you can live with. Or don't vote, who cares. I don't think any of this is particularly true. If the greens were viable they would actually get votes and win elections, they would of course be allowed to exist because the United States is a democracy and a open and free country. It is relatively easy for a major political party to have lawyers to file paperwork correctly, the issue is that they only appeal to a small subset of dissatisfied or single issue niche voters and lack widestream appeal and don't seem to be "serious" about winning. They could do many things to seem serious and gain support but they don't because they're grifters. Voting matters, Biden is like the most pro-union pro-labour President the US has had in our lifetimes and has passed legislation that's helped a lot of people and has proven even better than Obama by wide margins. I feel like this sentiment, that nothing matters, electoralism is a dead end, really just belongs in the dustbin of history.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Not that you don't already know this and it's just more fun to peddle disengenuous bullshit, but the Greens DO run people for lower office. They halfheartedly run cranks and perennial losers everywhere, but that's not the same as many any real effort to secure lower offices or build the party, as shown by holding fewer than 150 of the approximately 500,000 local elected offices in the United States. A big part is just the brain drain to be fair: if you're a young politically active person whose views 100% align with the Green Party you have a better chance gaining and keeping power as a Democrat, and a lot of the blame for that is squarely on the party. But there definitely isn't much feel of effort, particularly of effort over time, for the Greens to actually do anything or matter toward their political goals. Main Paineframe posted:You don't need dark money and astroturfing to win local government officials. Those are only necessary if you want to skip the unglamorous but important part of building favor at the local levels before you get into statewide and national races. The money definitely mattered, but this always gets papered over. Evangelicals never would have become such a disproportionate force if they didn't turn voting into literal religion, turning out every time and voting for the same racists and bible thumpers that they were predisposed to like already when they were a lower turnout demographic. The force for that happened at all levels of activism: the big money mostly directed them as to which specific issues and targets to focus them on, and pushed them into voting against their own interests, keeping them mostly on target for fundie-presenting Republican business ghouls rather than Dixiecrat-style racist populists that would have been nearer their hearts naturally. It built a mass of activated, ready voters and activists across the country that persisted for decades and transformed the national character in interestingly horrible ways. he far right talks about how they'll turn to revolution if electoralism fails, and bemoans every candidate they didn't personally anoint as a worthless RINO, but they still turn out every single time and it gets them results. Many of the people who would be the equivalent voters on the left also talk about how their views are a silent majority like the right-wingers, they talk about how the people will rise up like the right-wingers, but they don't really back it up by turning out with any reliability. That's lib poo poo, apparently. The results of the attitude are reflected in their influence on national politics, and will not change until they do. Thankfully that sort of Gen X both-sideser slacktivism seems to be on the way out due to the increasing distance between parties and public visibility of how much material difference even single close elections make.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:34
|
|
|
ohrwurm posted:How many people died in Iraq because democrats authorized a war there Most congressional democrats voted against invading Iraq, though? Like, the war was driven by republican monsters who were both lockstep and outright lying to minimize resistance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:42
|
|
|
Killer robot posted:They halfheartedly run cranks and perennial losers everywhere, but that's not the same as many any real effort to secure lower offices or build the party, as shown by holding fewer than 150 of the approximately 500,000 local elected offices in the United States. For reference DSA holds about 200 including offices that are higher than anything the green party has ever held. DSA also doesn't have the vote splitting issue and didn't have a presidential candidate grift millions of dollars from Democrats who were upset that Trump won.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:47
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Not that you don't already know this and it's just more fun to peddle disengenuous bullshit, but the Greens DO run people for lower office. Some people run AS Greens for lower office, but I think that's distinct from "Greens run people FOR lower office" which I've seen no actual evidence of. My experience with the party is that they don't do the second one outside of some local "Green+" parties I know of that are sort of weird amalgamations of multiple local parties and don't really have anything to do with the national party, and those seem to be Greens in name only (and often not really even that). The "Green party" that people actually talk about seems to be completely kooks and grifters that does no local work and makes no effort to find, run, or even assist those running for local office. The DSA and those local rainbow parties are examples of third party orgs that do run people for local office despite being much smaller and less well known, and last I checked their numbers it shows. CPColin posted:The alternative is using a voting system that isn't vulnerable to the spoiler effect and it's sad that it's 2023 and people are still blaming the third parties and/or their voters and not the system. Maine uses RCV, but in most places the attempts to switch to that sort of system have been killed by the public. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:49
|
|
|
So it (predictably) turns out that retail theft is basically the same as it has been for the last 5 years or so. Total shrink is up a lot this year, but so are retail sales so the ratio is more or less right where it's always been, ~1.5%. External theft (a.k.a the stuff the NY Post and Fox News love to shove in everyone's face) accounts for like 37% of that total. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/organized-retail-crime-and-theft-not-increasing-much-nrf-study-finds.html I wonder if the breathless reporting on roving gangs of shoplifters will point this out? (Probably not!)
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:51
|
|
|
Killer robot posted:They halfheartedly run cranks and perennial losers everywhere, but that's not the same as many any real effort to secure lower offices or build the party, as shown by holding fewer than 150 of the approximately 500,000 local elected offices in the United States. A big part is just the brain drain to be fair: if you're a young politically active person whose views 100% align with the Green Party you have a better chance gaining and keeping power as a Democrat, and a lot of the blame for that is squarely on the party. But there definitely isn't much feel of effort, particularly of effort over time, for the Greens to actually do anything or matter toward their political goals. The money makes the difference in more than just astroturfing this stuff. Any right wing priority you care to name will have basically endless resources sitting around purchasing organizations, running think tanks, renting busses, planning meetings, running focus groups, buying office space, writing policies, hiring people to run this stuff as their literal jobs. Not a whole lot of the billionaire class' resources are dedicated to fixing stuff for everyone else but the pass-through business tax rate? You bet your rear end lobbyists are standing around talking about that with lawmakers. Having billionaires lined up around the block to run globe spanning propaganda machines kinda helps a wee little bit too with developing that motivated base you're pointing out. Give me three or four decades of a left wing Fox blaring propaganda in to people's brains and I bet we would see some results too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:56
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Well surely a Democratic stronghold like California with a Dem governor who was elected will have something to show for this... Since you appear to have Cunningham's Law'd yourself with this example, and it turns out voting blue DOES meaningfully impact trans rights, did you have another example to bring up to support your argument?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 17:57
|
|
|
The newsworthy element is the videos of brazen and organized theft rather than retail theft in general. No one really cares about employee driven shrinkage or even most types of external theft (people stuffing stuff in their coat and walking out with it) so news wise its not gonna be anything more than a footnote article like the one you linked. As the article itself notes, the actual thing people are concerned about it that the theft is transitioning in format to something more violent, not that there is more of it. The public is more concerned about a theft-gone-wrong impacting them personally than things being stolen, and the retail outlets are more worried about their public image and the public's sense of being safe in their stores than the value of the stolen items. Those are the things that are driving the news discussion - and I think that's perfectly justified, to be honest? It would have been nice if the article had more numbers on how much that has increased, but it does indicate that the increase has been significant in terms of the actual problem people are concerned about. Why would the reports on "roving bands of shoplifters" point out details that are irrelevant to anything anyone consuming their news gives two poo poo about and irrelevant to the story they're actually running?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:02
|
|
|
The biggest theft in retail stores continues to be and always was wage theft. The videos of smash and grabs in malls are just there so pearl-clutching olds can go in the comment sections and talk about how the world is falling apart because somebody stole some CZ diamonds from Kay Jewelers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:09
|
|
|
The thing is, what’s new is video being omnipresent. When I was young, our local small-town grocery store got hit by a gang of robbers—they came in, made a bunch of customer service requests to every single employee in the store, and between the distractions and their numbers cleaned out a meat case and got into a few registers too. This was maybe 1990. What’s different is the way information is spread, and how that is being leveraged by bad actors who don’t ever let a good shock go to waste. Crisis Actors are a real phenomenon, and they all work for corporate PR.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:18
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:The newsworthy element is the videos of brazen and organized theft rather than retail theft in general. No one really cares about employee driven shrinkage or even most types of external theft (people stuffing stuff in their coat and walking out with it) so news wise its not gonna be anything more than a footnote article like the one you linked.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:21
|
|
|
rscott posted:So it (predictably) turns out that retail theft is basically the same as it has been for the last 5 years or so. Total shrink is up a lot this year, but so are retail sales so the ratio is more or less right where it's always been, ~1.5%. External theft (a.k.a the stuff the NY Post and Fox News love to shove in everyone's face) accounts for like 37% of that total. I'm actually surprised that the transition to self checkout hasn't coincided with a notable increase in theft. Like not even intentional theft, though the opening up of new opportunities would theoretically increase that. Just the absolute number of people improperly scanning their items and for real accidentally getting poo poo for free.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:25
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:Maine uses RCV, but in most places the attempts to switch to that sort of system have been killed by the public. Now imagine if the energy put toward raging against third parties were put toward convincing the public to make the switch instead!
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:40
|
|
|
It took THIS LONG for Hunter Biden to sue Giulliani and company re. laptop hacking? Like, there has been tons of evidence for years. They've been on television calling it the stolen laptop, bragging about their hacking prowess. What the hell haha https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/hunter-biden-rudy-giuliani-lawsuit/index.html
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:45
|
|
|
Who isn't suing Giuliani right now? Have you remembered to sue him yet?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:49
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:The bar has been set for unacceptable bribery in congress, and it's apparently "swinging a burlap sack full of gold bars around while texting everyone about how bribable you are and googling how much a gold bar is worth" Among democrats in congress
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 18:52
|
|
|
I enjoyed the Bush v. Gore chat because it reminded me that I signed up here just a couple weeks after that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:09
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1706719795226231118 A US president on a bullhorn on a picket line. That is an immense win for organized labor. Here's how the two major news networks are covering it: CNN's "top of the fold"  Fox's  Remember that tomorrow when Trump goes to a non-union supply shop to talk to a captive audience of 500 UAW workers and telling them that EVs are what are destroying their industry. zoux fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Sep 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:13
|
|
|
zoux posted:https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1706719795226231118 There’s so much extremely fair criticism of Biden from the left but man is he better than anything we’ve had since, what, FDR?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:18
|
|
|
zoux posted:https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1706719795226231118 I don’t want to be reductive, but how can this be the same guy who used the power of the state to crush the railroad workers last year? It’s like when he criticized the idea of student debt cancellation and then tried to cancel student debt. I can’t believe this 80-year-old man is just now learning about these things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:24
|
|
|
Dispatches from Greater Evilland. https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1706701790308110446 quote:Rep. Garret Graves (R-La.), a top McCarthy lieutenant, told reporters over the weekend that the House leadership plans to cut spending on “discretionary” programs, a category that excludes programs such as Social Security and Medicare, by roughly 27 percent, except for the military budget and spending on veterans affairs. It is funny that Gaetz is forcing the entire House Republican caucus make ultimately meaningless "kill grandma" votes right before an election year. IF they can round up that many.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:27
|
|
|
I have no idea how Bob Menendez kept getting elected after he skated on his first batch of corruption charges years ago He's one of the most insanely obvious corrupt politicians ever
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:29
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:I don’t want to be reductive, but how can this be the same guy who used the power of the state to crush the railroad workers last year? It’s like when he criticized the idea of student debt cancellation and then tried to cancel student debt.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:32
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:I don’t want to be reductive, but how can this be the same guy who used the power of the state to crush the railroad workers last year? It’s like when he criticized the idea of student debt cancellation and then tried to cancel student debt. Have you considered that that characterization of what happened in the railroad strike might not be entirely accurate, or that there might be more nuance to his actions in each case? I think there are more options beyond "president of the US only just now learning about labor politics"
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:33
|
|
|
Papercut posted:Have you considered that that characterization of what happened in the railroad strike might not be entirely accurate, or that there might be more nuance to his actions in each case? I think there are more options beyond "president of the US only just now learning about labor politics" Hopefully Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, Cori Bush, Ayanna Pressly, Ilhan Omar, and Jamaal Bowman, all of whom voted in favor of the same measure Biden is blasted for signing, don't have to wait until their 80s to learn about how labor unions are good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 19:42 |
|
|
Papercut posted:Have you considered that that characterization of what happened in the railroad strike might not be entirely accurate, or that there might be more nuance to his actions in each case? I think there are more options beyond "president of the US only just now learning about labor politics" Yeah, it wasn't particularly secret that the White House was trying to walk a line of getting worker demands without the disruption of a strike. It was just a mix of people who thought that it wouldn't work without a strike and those who had reason to cast Biden as Reagan Reborn. https://www.reuters.com/business/white-house-renews-pressure-railroads-over-paid-sick-leave-2023-02-09/
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2023 19:39
|
|