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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I'm shocked that you can say that last sentence with a straight face. It's not true. One of the three girls can't stop talking about how much she wants to gently caress Rean, one of them uses anger to cover how much she secretly adores him and wants to thank him, and the third was his I.D. partner who has made it her main duty to protect him, and Kurt still very much wants Rean's approval, just for sword reasons instead of 'sword' reasons. I guess the guys are less Rean-focused but so were the guys in Old Class VII. I mean I can because it’s true? Juna has a dynamic with both Kurt and Altina and to a lesser extent Ash. For the original class 7 the only member that meaningfully interacts with non Rean class 7 is Jusis who gets an independent relationship with millium and Machias
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Sep 26, 2023 18:22
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Crow has his Towa/Angelica/George connections
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Sep 26, 2023 18:34
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In that sense Gaius and Elliot are Those Two guys who always appear together, even then Gaius has the arts club with Clara and Linde while Elliot has his old band schoolmates, Alisa has her lacrosse club and Ferris, Fie and Laura with further breakdown in Fie and the gardening club and Laura and Monica, Emma had Dorothea. And then you have the free roams where all of Class 7 are having conversations with each other that Rean walks in on. And all of these connections are still mentioned in 3 and 4
SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Sep 26, 2023 |
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Sep 26, 2023 18:52
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Junpei posted:Crow has his Towa/Angelica/George connections I’m talking about inside Class 7 CS3 and 4 desperately wants you to believe class 7 is some huge friend group that’s extremely important but the game barely has them interact in any meaningful way in basically any way and only Rean and Jusis actually matter. I don’t know why Jusis if all characters gets two independent relationships but got to give the guy something considering how little they do with him and his brother
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Sep 26, 2023 18:59
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Once again I feel like I played a different game from the thread because I just cannot agree with these takes
SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Sep 26, 2023 |
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Sep 26, 2023 19:01
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I wish I played the game you did it sounds much better
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Sep 26, 2023 19:13
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I think the social lives of Class 7 people are presented fine. They all have connections and lives outside of Class 7, and, in a way, the fact that not all of them have direct involvement in plot events is probably a good thing (since it's far more realistic and it would feel contrived if they tried to give, say, Machias some big involvement in the Twilight stuff). So I don't think that the more "unnecessary" characters like Elliot should have been removed. But I think the game probably should have still given the Class 7 characters some sort of "friction" outside of just "having one or two specific things they care about." To give an example, I think stuff like the CS4 Machias Bond Event should have been integrated into the story (or side quests), and in a less "passive" way. So even if it'd be silly for all the Class 7 members to have some direct involvement with the main plot events, you can still give them some sort of conflict/issues that they need to actively work through (with the "actively" referring to something more involved than, say, "having some dialogue when you fight the enemy that they have a conflict with"). I've also noticed a tendency for party members to have "Their Thing" that the story just repeatedly emphasizes. Elliot does music! He wants to inspire people with it! Machias likes, uh, institutions and the rule of law (which he is going to use to fight their evil government, somehow)! Honestly, this is something Daybreak still has an issue with. Most party members have Their Thing (though a few are more complex), and when plot stuff happens you know that they're gonna get a dialogue line connecting it to Their Thing. To its credit, the game has left ongoing "mysteries" for the party members at the end of Daybreak, so there's at least further stuff to explore with them in later games. MythosDragon posted:I'm just terrified of the variations lol, Falcom wants me to play Daybreak 3 times in a row with no break with the morality stuff man. Since I'm on PC I'll just use CheatEngine to give myself the necessary alignment values if I want to see the other stuff, but even with that it'd still be really rough since you'd have to replay the latter ~1/4 of the game multiple times to see the variations. There's also a number of other things about that game that are going to be rough on a "dialogue completionist." There are a bunch of points where you have to select one or two party members to walk around and do side quests with (and they comment on stuff and interact with the relevant NPCs, as you'd expect). You can switch them out whenever you want, but you're still stuck with whoever you chose when you do side-quests. On the upside, NPCs with dialogue showing up on the minimap at least makes that part a lot easier than it's ever been. This is the first Trails game where I've read Literally All of the NPC dialogue (and it benefits heavily from it - I will be very upset if all my NPC friends don't show up in the sequel). Another upside is that, as long as you do all your 4spg side quests (which pretty much everyone is), you can do all bond ("connect" in this) events.
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Sep 26, 2023 19:30
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CharlestheHammer posted:I’m talking about inside Class 7 CS3 and 4 desperately wants you to believe class 7 is some huge friend group that’s extremely important but the game barely has them interact in any meaningful way in basically any way and only Rean and Jusis actually matter. Maybe you didn't interact with them at all or something, because this is an insane take.
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Sep 26, 2023 19:37
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Cyouni posted:Maybe you didn't interact with them at all or something, because this is an insane take. It’s actually a pretty common complaint as far as I’ve seen. I have no particular issue going against popular opinion but I ain’t here
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Sep 26, 2023 19:54
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I think the objection is more about your claim that New Class VII is significantly less Rean-centric than Old Class VII.
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Sep 26, 2023 20:34
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I don’t think so only you think that and that’s because you seem to think less Rean Centric I mean they don’t interact at all
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Sep 26, 2023 20:38
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quote:Rean-centric *Reanimated
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Sep 26, 2023 20:40
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Making headway in Nayuta Infinite mode, still can't kill any of the new tough enemies but I've three starred the first set of NG+ stages so that's something. The tough enemy issue isn't that they kill me in one hit, though they do, it's that I barely do any damage to them.
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Sep 26, 2023 21:05
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Sakurazuka posted:Making headway in Nayuta Infinite mode, still can't kill any of the new tough enemies but I've three starred the first set of NG+ stages so that's something. The tough enemy issue isn't that they kill me in one hit, though they do, it's that I barely do any damage to them. Yeah that's the real reason you shouldn't start the next runthrough on infinite, the stuff you unlock from the stages is needed to make it through them in a reasonable amount of time. Also the enemies aggressively level scale with you so leveling doesn't help at all, it'll become more manageable once you get access to all the NG+ perks and any remaining equipment left.
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Sep 26, 2023 21:40
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Somehow I only now noticed that Van's voice actor (Daisuke Ono) is the same as Battler's in Umineko (and a ton of other characters, but that's definitely the main one) It'd be a long time since I played Umineko (which is basically my favorite media period by a large margin) and I came across a clip and was like "wait a second..."
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Sep 26, 2023 22:23
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SgtSteel91 posted:Once again I feel like I played a different game from the thread because I just cannot agree with these takes Us, Class VII is the second greatest group of friends in gaming and I turned into a sobbing mess at the end of CS2, upon both my playthroughs just like the cast themselves did, and although there are cooler moments and moments with better characters in the series now, thats still the individually best scene in the series, and the final boss music ties it all together. To a Glimmering Tomorrow is just the best song ever. Ytlaya posted:
Yeah that was one of my huge mess of ideas, Machias CS4 bond is REALLY good, and completes his entire character arc basically, but its insane that its a bonding event. Yeah, thats uh, thats all of SC.... I did every single variation in SC... and it broke me. Variations in sky suck man, theyre just generic lines that exist no matter what, but edited for personality, barring npc runs where you can meet like, Duke Dunan who has a real convo with Kloe and the Boss Fights that directly talk to either a specific character or every character you have, theres basically no text of worth for anyone in SC unless they get forced into the party. By far the most flawed trails game as a result and still something I wouldn't hesitate to give the highest numeric rating to of course.
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Sep 27, 2023 01:31
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I know we all love Juna's sass but I actually think Ash tops her in saying exactly what we're all thinking
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Sep 27, 2023 02:10
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Ash and Juna are better characters then anyone in the original Class VII by a mile other then like Fie.
RevolverDivider fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 02:13
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I've only gotten through CS3, (waiting for 4 to go on sale before i jump), but Nu-VII definitely benefits a ton from being a smaller group of characters than Old-VII, allowing each member to get noticeably more focus. I dearly love the Cold Steel cast, honestly a lot more than I expected to going in, but I can't help but think how cool it would've been if Laura for instance had the level of actual stuff to do in the plot that Juna or Ash do, as opposed to being "Face in the background #3" for most of CS2 and CS3's main stories.
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Sep 27, 2023 03:19
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I love giant casts and too many party members but also CS3 is the best one so even though it’s small New Class VII can’t be beat!
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Sep 27, 2023 03:20
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unimportantguy posted:
What do you mean by this? Because you bring up Laura and she has scenes and connections to the plot. The Legram chapters are her taking central stage, Duvalie basically becomes her rival, she sees the Lance Maiden as her hero and then in CS3 and 4 learns that her idol is Arianhood and she demonstrates her swordsmanship that impresses Lianne so much she gives her blessing to Laura to carry the Sandlot name. And her goal at the beginning of Cold Steel, to surpass her father, is reached when he is forced to confront them and- well- she bests him. Edit: Because it’s been a while, I rechecked Cold Steel 4 and much like Machias it’s insane that Laura isn’t a mandatory party member for the Rivalry Battle with Arianhood. So I’ll forgive if you didn’t take Laura, for some reason, despite the finale of CS3 clueing you in that Laura and Arianhood are counterparts SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 04:04
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It really does feel like we straight up played different games lol. The only reason I'd say any Class 7 character feels under used is because they had plots that were being saved for Arc 4 that didn't get the focus they required due to the aforementioned ”new stuff" problem. On the counter side though despite the new stuff getting all that focus.... By the end they were bit players in their own arc because they were severely underqualified. Ash is great and he'd be top of the list in CS2, but Class 7 all grew in CS3 and 4 so he's only comparable to my two least favorites. This next bit might actually get hate though and it's something I just thought of a few days ago. Juna is Trails counterpart to Tales of's Rose, a character the writer loved so much they kinda wrote awfully to put them on a pedestal. MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 04:48
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You don’t need to spoil that you hate a character. That’s weird. You are wrong of course but like who cares.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:16
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I don't really understand the purpose of spoiler stuff at all... I really just try copying the general trend I see everyone else use. I don't hate either character mentioned.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:29
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That’s fair tbh.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:30
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I'm going to assume that's spoilers for a game (CS4) I haven't played up there. But again I'm really just talking about the realities of the larger Old Class VII cast meaning people are necessarily off-screen or not doing anything relevant for decent amounts of game. I just picked Laura at semi-random because she and Machias are my favorites among the Old Class VII crew. Machias might be a better example actually.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:32
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It’s a spoiler iv you go into actual plot stuff, just saying “Elie is the most aggressively mid character in Azure, maybe even Trails PCs, despite her connections to the story” isn’t really a spoiler, but saying it’s because her best friend was basically one of the masterminds behind DG and she doesn’t even get top billing in confronting her very much is.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:34
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My initial draft of that did have the reasoning, but if no one thinks it's fun to discuss there's no real point to going farther with it right? Though in hindsight it might be a bit inflammatory now, my bad. As far as spoilers go? I kinda just don't believe in the concept at all and struggle immensely with when to use it, but I've learned to just follow leads as a common courtesy people deserve since I want them to enjoy the stories. Personally, if you tell me extremely cool things about Daybreak I'm just gonna get more and more excited to experience it myself. If you tell me lame things, I might be concerned or turned off, but for something I love I'll experience it myself.
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Sep 27, 2023 05:51
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unimportantguy posted:I'm going to assume that's spoilers for a game (CS4) I haven't played up there. But again I'm really just talking about the realities of the larger Old Class VII cast meaning people are necessarily off-screen or not doing anything relevant for decent amounts of game. I just picked Laura at semi-random because she and Machias are my favorites among the Old Class VII crew. Machias might be a better example actually. My apologies if I spoiled anything, but I think that's kind of the reality of the general structure of Trails stories: there's sections where a character or two become mandatory party members so they can have cutscenes and story beats devoted to them while the rest of the party you choose maybe get a couple of lines for flavor. It's been that way since Sky FC and SC. And once they get their turn it's up to the player if they sit on the bench or come along to give a line or two in the lead up to a fight or make a comment during a cutscene.
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Sep 27, 2023 06:58
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MythosDragon posted:My initial draft of that did have the reasoning, but if no one thinks it's fun to discuss there's no real point to going farther with it right? Though in hindsight it might be a bit inflammatory now, my bad. There's at least one thing in Daybreak that you *really* don't want to be spoiled on. It would lose a lot of its impact, and I want other people to get to experience it in the same way I got to. I think it might be the only time in the entire Trails franchise that I've been genuinely shocked at something. I guess one advantage to playing the game before its official English release is that there's less risk of spoilers.
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Sep 27, 2023 07:18
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Ytlaya posted:I guess one advantage to playing the game before its official English release is that there's less risk of spoilers. I imagine that's why at least some part of the fanbase jumps on a game as soon as a spreadsheet becomes available. Of course, the result is that more people become aware of plot points and spoilers become more common. It's kind of a self-perpetuating cycle.
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Sep 27, 2023 09:04
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Not sure if this site is well known here but it's excellent for looking at any of the games scripts https://trailsinthedatabase.com/
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Sep 27, 2023 13:02
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MythosDragon posted:My initial draft of that did have the reasoning, but if no one thinks it's fun to discuss there's no real point to going farther with it right? Though in hindsight it might be a bit inflammatory now, my bad. personally spoilers suck all the fun out of things for me because i start obsessing over when x is going to happen rather than pay attention to the story as it happens. either way it sucks navigating the internet minefield when you're like "how do i reach this chest in sandburg" and you get an article/answer that starts with "AFTER DUKE LASERSKULL IS REVEALED TO BE YOUR MOM AND GIVES YOU THE SPRING BOOTS YOU CAN etc" anyway finished Reverie, now that's how you end a fuckin arc holy poo poo. [Reverie finale end]Figuring out the concept of the multiverse via detective work, Nega-Rean, big stupid robot fights, actually tricking the final boss, Rean finally defeating the main villain of Cold Steel(his depression), Rufus trying to have a big redemptive death and instead ending up arrested for one count of Being A Dense Motherfucker, Crossbell getting a proper sendoff rather than being a side-note, really cute credits sequence, and congratulations to Mrs. Orlando(don't go to the family reunion trust me on this). Also the new, faintest glimmer of self-esteem Rean has acquired allows him to go Super Saiyan 2(and i lol'd at SU getting buffed TWICE in one game, yeah it's the last hurrah let's just go fuckin nuts) Despite being clearly made on a budget of 5 dollars and some gum(including NISA's QA who were clearly halfassing it bigtime lol) Reverie as a whole just has a lot more heart than CS4 did. They also showed that the billion party members Thing can actually be done successfully. It seems like, very unsually for this industry, Falcom learned all the right lessons from CS4's failings. I'm excited for Daybreak now rather than a little apprehensive. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 27, 2023 |
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Sep 27, 2023 21:49
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Ys X unlocked today for Japanese digital preorders; I'm really not enjoying it. It's slow and floaty like the realtime aspect of the Kuro games, the soundtrack is a Trails one not an Ys one, and most of all people will not shut the gently caress up. Two hours of play for half a dungeon isn't what I've been buying these games for. Even 9, a game which had way too much plot, at least had you doing a prison break after ten minutes.
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Sep 27, 2023 22:08
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Finished Nayuta NG. Don't think I have the stomach for NG+. I liked a lot of things that Falcom was trying to do with it, but they fell flat on their face as often as they succeeded in implementing their ideas. All four of the powers you get are cool in theory but quite janky to actually use, in ways that I feel like could have been easily fixed by a designer/programmer pair who had good taste and a couple weeks to work on it. I'm not the most observant player, but the connections I noticed to the rest of Trails included (spoilers for Nayuta and all English-released Trails games) the Astrolabe's home being called a "Garden", which is a term the other games tend to use for hub spaces in places like Phantasma and the True Reverie Corridor, the names "Ordine" and "Herschel", and the first form of the last boss being called a Divine Knight. Pretty thin stuff, mostly, but I'm willing to believe I missed a bunch of obvious clues. Something else I noticed that's either very important or just lazy translation is that Nayuta's planet is referred to as "Earth" specifically, and a lot of the wildlife you find (especially fossils) are just regular-rear end Earth creatures like Anglerfish and Tyrannosaurus Rex. I didn't think too much of that until I found the Meowmeow accessories for Noi in the after story and the descriptions referred to them as coming from a long forgotten civilization, which again is either a joke, lazy translation, or a hint that it takes place on our planet in the distant future. Hard to say what to make of it all.
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Sep 28, 2023 00:39
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Yinlock posted:Despite being clearly made on a budget of 5 dollars and some gum(including NISA's QA who were clearly halfassing it bigtime lol) Reverie as a whole just has a lot more heart than CS4 did. They also showed that the billion party members Thing can actually be done successfully. It seems like, very unsually for this industry, Falcom learned all the right lessons from CS4's failings. I'm excited for Daybreak now rather than a little apprehensive. Yeah, Daybreak is basically like if Falcom deliberately addressed almost all of my personal complaints from past games. That's a big reason why I've been commenting on it so much in this thread - the whole experience has just been a tremendous shock, in a good way. I had basically resigned myself to "just appreciating what the series does well and overlooking what it doesn't" after the Cold Steel games, so I wasn't expecting "basically the platonic ideal of what I want a Trails game to be" (except for the sad absence of fishing).
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Sep 28, 2023 00:57
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Despite the montage, (Azure end through to Cold Steel III start) I don't recall hearing about any guerrilla warfare. It would also feel out of character for Lloyd and Randy (he wants a hard break from his past) to start planting bombs or ambushing and killing patrols of Imperial Soldiers. So as far as I can tell from what gets told, they spend the next two years hiding in the woods just killing wanted monsters on the road, but not actually confronting the Imperial Army in combat. Tesseraction posted:Well, notably Rufus found them annoying enough to perform Operation Birdcage, and prior to that the whole reason for Lloyd and Rixia's romp in CS2 was to destroy a list of names to protect resistance members. I get the feeling it's a case of them planning for it to be bloodier than it was. I imagine they originally planned for guerrilla warfare and then ended up with it mostly being Lloyd and Elie letting the air our of Erebonian tyres or putting glue in the keyhole of Rufus's office door. [Reverie]I don't think it was resistance members specifically, just peoples' personal data, and they were making a backup for it too. It was both to keep Erebonian intelligence from loving around with it and to help things go back to normal eventually post-occupation. I don't think straight-up guerrilla warfare was ever in the cards at all but some imperials who felt like abusing their authority defintiely got a tonfa to the face now and again. The SSS were at least active enough to stick around in the peoples' minds until Rufus tried to put a stop to that with the Birdcage. Lloyd was both being hunted by the occupation force and raising a child at the same time, so he was probably pretty limited in what he could do. In Reverie Rufus says that he respected the SSS(which is why he tried his damndest to make them go away) and that it was a huge pain in the rear end keeping Lloyd contained, so they were probably doing SOMETHING that hindered him even if it was just back-alley SSS work stopping him from fully winning the hearts and minds of the people. hey buddy *opens coat like a cartoon drug dealer to reveal animal pictures* want me to find your lost cat Yinlock fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Sep 28, 2023 |
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Sep 28, 2023 10:54
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, Daybreak is basically like if Falcom deliberately addressed almost all of my personal complaints from past games. Don't worry, Daybreak 2 will dash all good will you had towards the first game. It has fishing though!
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Sep 28, 2023 11:26
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Don't worry, Daybreak 2 will dash all good will you had towards the first game. It has fishing though! That bad, huh?
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Sep 28, 2023 15:37
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I'll believe it's good until I play it
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Sep 28, 2023 15:51
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