FINAL FANTASY XIV: WoL Makeover Station (Patch 6.55) (DT Early Access 6/28)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > FINAL FANTASY XIV: WoL Makeover Station (Patch 6.55) (DT Early Access 6/28)

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Xerophyte: Mar 17, 2008; This space intentionally left blank

Lord_Magmar posted:

The timing on that kill is going to reduce the value of those buff numbers on dps though, given you got so far past a 2 minute burst window (and the further away the less meaningful buffs will be).

That's certainly true. The difference between a 5-burst kill at 9:30 and a 6-burst kill at 10:30 for 15s raidbuffs is 14.2% uptime instead of 13.2% uptime, or around 8.5% more total buff contribution. Also you can do a buffier comp than ours. We don't run AST or SCH. AST are also going to reduce overall alignment since some cards have to be unaligned, but overall they're of course very much a buff dps contributor.

Anyhow, with a 6 buff job composition and more favorable fight timing you can I think just hit 10% overall contribution from group buffs, which should mean maybe a little over 6% gain from perfect alignment versus completely uncorrelated for a bursty job. It's definitely true that alignment matters more the more and stronger group buffs you have in your composition.

SAM vs WAR I can't speak very confidently about, we haven't run SAM, but far as I can tell from looking at a couple random logs SAM bursts at around 25k and otherwise does around 10k which is a 2:5 ratio similar to what I used for WAR. Using SAM also inevitably means that you have 1 less buff job, which lowers the value of alignment. I don't think it's going to make a huge difference, but possibly there are some even burstier jobs I haven't thought about.

E: Looking at a SAM log where they had dance partner and got cards they were approaching 20% total raid buff contribution. The single target buffs are kind of a special case though since obviously the contribution from buff alignment is going to be relatively much smaller in that situation.

Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Sep 28, 2023

# ? Sep 28, 2023 15:50

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# ? May 26, 2024 05:42

Onean: Feb 11, 2010; Maiden in white...
You are not one of us.

Finally knocked out the last CC match I needed to hit 25, and oof, I feel bad for the enemy team.

That's about the fastest I've ever had a match go.

Now, to just farm as many mogtomes as I can stomach...

# ? Sep 28, 2023 15:54

Failboattootoot: Feb 6, 2011; Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

That rdm hard carrying with time on the crystal.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 15:55

Onean: Feb 11, 2010; Maiden in white...
You are not one of us.

So many enemy players just...not touching the crystal. (They were distracted by the rest of my team, fighting way on the opposite side of the map, since it was the Clockwork Castletown map. :v:

)

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:02

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

Xerophyte posted:

That's certainly true. The difference between a 5-burst kill at 9:30 and a 6-burst kill at 10:30 for 15s raidbuffs is 14.2% uptime instead of 13.2% uptime, or around 8.5% more total buff contribution. Also you can do a buffier comp than ours. We don't run AST or SCH. AST are also going to reduce overall alignment since some cards have to be unaligned, but overall they're of course very much a buff dps contributor.

Anyhow, with a 6 buff job composition and more favorable fight timing you can I think just hit 10% overall contribution from group buffs, which should mean maybe a little over 6% gain from perfect alignment versus completely uncorrelated for a bursty job. It's definitely true that alignment matters more the more and stronger group buffs you have in your composition.

SAM vs WAR I can't speak very confidently about, we haven't run SAM, but far as I can tell from looking at a couple random logs SAM bursts at around 25k and otherwise does around 10k which is a 2:5 ratio similar to what I used for WAR. Using SAM also inevitably means that you have 1 less buff job, which lowers the value of alignment. I don't think it's going to make a huge difference, but possibly there are some even burstier jobs I haven't thought about.

E: Looking at a SAM log where they had dance partner and got cards they were approaching 20% total raid buff contribution. The single target buffs are kind of a special case though since obviously the contribution from buff alignment is going to be relatively much smaller in that situation.

I think the answer is in part that if you have only buffs in your team, you don't really have anyone with the potency (heh) to use them all that great. Samurai, and to a lesser extent BLM and MCH, are doing a lot more potency than most other jobs in burst windows. So relatively speaking they benefit more from buffs.

Especially with how Samurai Auto-crit iajutsu actually scale with crit based raid buffs being better than actual crit chance/damage increases they supply. Mostly all the raid buffs are % increases, which means they stack somewhat multiplicatively with eachother. A 5% increase from a Dancer and a 5% increase from a Red Mage are bigger than a 10% increase from a single job (but not by that much) so on and so forth. But you still combine that with the naturally high potency Samurai puts in a burst window and things go from 60k Ogi-Namikiri to 80/90k, and 40k Midares to 60/65 (this one is actually more noticeable to me because I use Midare outside raid buffs a lot anyway).

Edit: Basically the higher the potency of the receivers buttons, the more that buff stacking on them matters for raw numbers, especially in cases where Samurai has things like auto-crit 860 Namikiris twice and so on and so forth. There's probably some math you can do for how much potency fits into 15/20/25 second windows for each class to calculate the difference between a War and a Samurai. But just using their respective 2 minute big weaponskill buttons. Samurai has 860+860 for both Namikiris, compared to Warrior doing 700 with Fellest Cleave (Primal Rend).

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Sep 28, 2023

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:05

Mordiceius: Nov 10, 2007; If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

One thing with FFXIV, for me, is that I generally always need a long term grind goal. For 5.x, it was getting every Triple Triad card. For 6.x, it has been catching every single fish in the game.

I was able to get every TT card pre-6.0.

Currently, I only need 2 fish in the world (Cinder and Lancet) as well as a two rare ocean fish as well as about 30k points to for World Class Troller.

At this point, having those few fish I need as well as a handful of 6.x TT cards is not enough of a grind anymore. The fish are all on timers so I can't continue to grind them and the handful of 6.x Triple Triad cards I'm missing are mostly ones that I'll get naturally as I continue to run dungeons.

All this to say - I've been trying to figure out what my next goal will be. And I think I've decided.

I'm going to start the grind to end all grinds. It is time to go for Luckiest of Lords/Ladies.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:14

Xerophyte: Mar 17, 2008; This space intentionally left blank

Lord_Magmar posted:

I think the answer is in part that if you have only buffs in your team, you don't really have anyone with the potency (heh) to use them all that great. Samurai, and to a lesser extent BLM and MCH, are doing a lot more potency than most other jobs in burst windows. So relatively speaking they benefit more from buffs.

Especially with how Samurai Auto-crit iajutsu actually scale with crit based raid buffs being better than actual crit chance/damage increases they supply.

For group buffs that's at least not automatically true. What matters for the effectiveness of a group buff is basically the total group DPS inside the buff window. Whether that DPS burst is provided by other group buffs or selfish jobs with strong personal burst doesn't matter, it's the same scaling and there's no inherent preference for one or the other.

Selfish jobs may still be preferable at the tippy top end either because their overall damage profile is good -- and SAM's burst is indeed very good if you're parsefiending -- or because the single target buffing jobs are preferable and you need a partner. With AST and DNC you really do want a selfish DPS (or two for cards) to convert your buffs to damage.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:22

Mainwaring: Jun 22, 2007; Disco is not dead! Disco is LIFE!

Onean posted:

Finally knocked out the last CC match I needed to hit 25, and oof, I feel bad for the enemy team.

That's about the fastest I've ever had a match go.

Now, to just farm as many mogtomes as I can stomach...

The time is one thing, I've seen quick games where a team gets wiped out and never recovers, but losing with only two deaths is quite something.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:23

Xerophyte: Mar 17, 2008; This space intentionally left blank

Mainwaring posted:

The time is one thing, I've seen quick games where a team gets wiped out and never recovers, but losing with only two deaths is quite something.

On Castletown you can get some real weird games, since people for some to me unfathomable reason always want to start the map by running through the shortcut door so they're trapped in a corner on the wrong side of the crystal. Presumably they were bullied off the crystal which then pushed away from them instead of into them for the entire game.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:26

iPodschun: Dec 29, 2004; Sherlock House

Xerophyte posted:

The current numbers are tuned so consistently perfect burst timings aren't make or break for enrages in Savage.

I feel like a caveat about gear should be added for this. We're in week 14 or 15 of this savage tier so I assume most people still doing savage are at ilvl 660 or close to it; if you're trying to clear the third fight of a tier or further during week 1 with everyone in 640 crafted gear, the importance of buff timing matters a lot more. With a good group of people it still probably won't be a problem, but if you're slumming it in PF then you need every bit of damage you can get.

I'm mostly thinking about it through the last tier though as I am not doing this savage tier. From what I've gathered, DPS requirements this tier were notably lower and the first few fights were basically "do the mechanics right and you should clear"

# ? Sep 28, 2023 16:57

Mister Olympus: Oct 31, 2011; Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Yeah they're just wrong. Every recent rework has pulled classes more tightly into the 2 min burst rotations and it kind of sucks. That and the homogeneity they're forming across roles really makes me miss StB era class designs warts and all

those "warts" included "being excluded from PFs if you didn't already fit into the idea of the 2 minute" which existed by then, just wasn't applied to all jobs

so

# ? Sep 28, 2023 17:09

Orcs and Ostriches: Aug 26, 2010; The Great Twist

iPodschun posted:

I'm mostly thinking about it through the last tier though as I am not doing this savage tier. From what I've gathered, DPS requirements this tier were notably lower and the first few fights were basically "do the mechanics right and you should clear"

Yeah, this tier is considerably more generous. It's not like last tier, where if you had a Warrior week 1 you couldn't clear the door boss.

My static of grey parsers rarely even sees enrage timers, where we were always up against them last time.

Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 28, 2023

# ? Sep 28, 2023 17:24

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

# ? Sep 28, 2023 18:10

W.T. Fits: Apr 21, 2010; Ready to Poyozo Dance all over your face.

Arist posted:

One down, 2999 more to go! :buddy:

# ? Sep 28, 2023 18:33

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

I'm at about 260 frontline wins from just over 800 matches. It's a long haul

# ? Sep 28, 2023 18:35

Vitamean: May 31, 2012

FuturePastNow posted:

I'm at about 260 frontline wins from just over 800 matches. It's a long haul

just about one win per three matches. the system works!

# ? Sep 28, 2023 18:40

hexwren: Feb 27, 2008

people keep saying that your first, second and third place finishes should even out to 33.3% each, but I just do not see how

I go in, I try, I lose
I go in, I don't try and just follow the murderball around, I lose
I go in, I gently caress off and wander off on my own, I lose

the only good part of it is that roulette doubles your series level gains so that now it takes way fewer games to hit 25 and get all the stuff

# ? Sep 28, 2023 18:54

Mainwaring: Jun 22, 2007; Disco is not dead! Disco is LIFE!

hexwren posted:

people keep saying that your first, second and third place finishes should even out to 33.3% each, but I just do not see how

I go in, I try, I lose
I go in, I don't try and just follow the murderball around, I lose
I go in, I gently caress off and wander off on my own, I lose

the only good part of it is that roulette doubles your series level gains so that now it takes way fewer games to hit 25 and get all the stuff

You're probably cursed

# ? Sep 28, 2023 18:58

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

hexwren posted:

people keep saying that your first, second and third place finishes should even out to 33.3% each, but I just do not see how

I go in, I try, I lose
I go in, I don't try and just follow the murderball around, I lose
I go in, I gently caress off and wander off on my own, I lose

the only good part of it is that roulette doubles your series level gains so that now it takes way fewer games to hit 25 and get all the stuff

My stats looked like that after a few hundred matches and then slowwwwly evened out. I don't know if it's because I got better at it or just pure luck.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 19:00

TheWorldsaStage: Sep 10, 2020

hexwren posted:

the only good part of it is that roulette doubles your series level gains so that now it takes way fewer games to hit 25 and get all the stuff

gently caress me I'm a moron. I did not know this.

E: lmao holy poo poo. You can never run away from the pain

https://twitter.com/windup_tama/status/1707405855266926774?t=p7v5AKBGgV4EIBSVVTTHKg&s=19

TheWorldsaStage fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Sep 28, 2023

# ? Sep 28, 2023 19:05

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

hexwren posted:

people keep saying that your first, second and third place finishes should even out to 33.3% each, but I just do not see how

I go in, I try, I lose
I go in, I don't try and just follow the murderball around, I lose
I go in, I gently caress off and wander off on my own, I lose

the only good part of it is that roulette doubles your series level gains so that now it takes way fewer games to hit 25 and get all the stuff

382 is a really small sample size. As you increase that toward 1000, you're going to notice a move more toward parity.

Also, there will always be outliers. There's going to be the person that wins 60% of the time and those that lose 60% of the time, but that will be a trivial percentage of the population (<1%). Most people are going to end up about a third because frontlines is almost a random draw.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 19:42

1stGear: Jan 16, 2010; Here's to the new us.

An acolyte in great distress came to the Buddha. He asked "Buddha, whenever I play Frontlines, I lose. I try to stick my team, I lose. I try to give them sound direction, I lose. I try to backdoor the enemy points, I lose. I do not understand how I am supposed to win."

The Buddha smiled and rested his hand on top of the acolyte's head. "Acolyte," said the Buddha. "You lost the moment you queued into Frontlines with the expectation of victory."

# ? Sep 28, 2023 19:52

Tamba: Apr 5, 2010

Mr. Nice! posted:

Most people are going to end up about a third because frontlines is almost a random draw.

Last week I got the "Play 100 Rival Wings games" and "Win 50 Rival Wings games" achievements for the same game :v:

# ? Sep 28, 2023 19:53

Arzaac: Jan 2, 2020

I imagine the only way to realistically improve your frontlines win ratio is to become an excellent shot-caller.

And even then you're gonna need people to, you know, actually listen.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 19:55

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

TheWorldsaStage posted:

E: lmao holy poo poo. You can never run away from the pain

https://twitter.com/windup_tama/status/1707405855266926774?t=p7v5AKBGgV4EIBSVVTTHKg&s=19

owned

# ? Sep 28, 2023 19:57

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

Tamba posted:

Last week I got the "Play 100 Rival Wings games" and "Win 50 Rival Wings games" achievements for the same game

For the last Garo achievement I did exactly 61 CC matches to get 30 wins. So close to making it a coin flip.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 20:02

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Mediatonic, the creators of Fall Guys, got basically dismantled by Epic today which is gonna make the collab awkward

# ? Sep 28, 2023 20:11

Rap Game Goku: Apr 2, 2008; Word to your moms, I came to drop spirit bombs

hexwren posted:

the only good part of it is that roulette doubles your series level gains so that now it takes way fewer games to hit 25 and get all the stuff

I've found that unless you absolutely have to grind out series xp, the easiest way is to just do your daily frontlines. You'll get about a level a day and mindlessly following the murderball around is relatively low stress.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 20:15

Doomykins: Jun 28, 2008; Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

It's like professional poker, sure it's RNG but you can play the odds or not on the small decisions you do get to make.

My wins are over 40% at 1000+ after a year and a half. RNG outlier but I always give it a good try. While it's true that one person out of 24 can't carry their team or defeat 24-48 enemies by themselves you can quietly win as many small victories as possible to help your team gather BH and most importantly morale. One of my chill and unwind FL approaches is to go BRD and shoot anything safely with the murderball that I can, only diving slightly to bind + silence to help finish somebody, particularly enemy melee dives. Kind of a zen approach, all that matters is shooting enemy health bar until it's gone or far out of range.

I've been trying to get a unicorn run as FL DNC(break 1m damage and at least one pivotal LB) and learning RDM a lot this week, as well as experimenting with which classes are best for tossing AoEs into clusterfucks like a DRK engaging. Damage SCH is fun and all but I've certainly done it enough. Damage SGE might be my favorite in all pvp.

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Sep 28, 2023

# ? Sep 28, 2023 20:17

HPanda: Sep 5, 2008

Waffleman_ posted:

Mediatonic, the creators of Fall Guys, got basically dismantled by Epic today which is gonna make the collab awkward

Not saying this would happen, but a funny thought is Fall Guys dropping support, followed by FF14 going heavy on advertising their new Fall Guys-esque gameplay which can be accessed indefinitely in the free trial. Just soak up more players who never leave the Gold Saucer.

Would also maybe encourage FF14 to not make the content limited time.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 20:46

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

Waffleman_ posted:

Mediatonic, the creators of Fall Guys, got basically dismantled by Epic today which is gonna make the collab awkward

Wait, what? drat. I didn't realize the event had been running in Fall Guys until last week, so I've been trying to power through the ranks and get the rewards.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 21:15

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Waffleman_ posted:

Mediatonic, the creators of Fall Guys, got basically dismantled by Epic today which is gonna make the collab awkward

Epic Games also lists it as one of their core businesses still, though.

quote:

"We aren't cutting any core businesses, and are continuing to invest in games with Fortnite first-party development, the Fortnite creator ecosystem and economy, Rocket League and Fall Guys"

Seems likely they'll move development of it more internal.

# ? Sep 28, 2023 21:46

Gruckles: Mar 11, 2013

Some gaming blogs were reporting rumors earlier that Mediatonic and the Fall Guys dev team had been entirely shut down, but it seems they've "just" been heavily affected by Epic's laying off 16% of their workforce.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1707472025235656958

# ? Sep 28, 2023 22:01

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

I think at the least half of them are gone

# ? Sep 28, 2023 22:22

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

the co-op roguelike inspired by FFXIV raiding, Rabbit and Steel, just got its early demo. it's pretty feature complete as demos go:

quote:

Demo Features:
-Two Stages: The Kingdom Outskirts + The Scholar's Nest
-Five Classes: Wizard, Assassin, Heavyblade, Dancer, and Druid
-80+ Random Items to find
-Normal, Hard, and Lunar Difficulties
-Online and Offline Co-op (up to 4 players)
-Single player as well!
-Support for English, Japanese and Simplified Chinese
-Some other random baubles to find

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2132850/Rabbit_and_Steel/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R_wpdJtrcU

in case you're blind like me, you can download the demo on the right side of the steam page:

# ? Sep 28, 2023 23:31

DACK FAYDEN: Feb 25, 2013; Bear Witness

Mordiceius posted:

I'm going to start the grind to end all grinds. It is time to go for Luckiest of Lords/Ladies.

There's a discord called NA Treasure Maps - they get together to run Thief's Maps so you get eight times as many shots for your Gazelleskin grinding. Mostly based out of Aether but also some Primal. You likely already know this, but just in case you didn't!

# ? Sep 28, 2023 23:48