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Parallax posted:something tell me idiots complaining about wolverine being a lady are the kind of people who keep spending their money on super hero comics anyway A lot of those idiots pirate their comics regardless, so they never had any skin in the game.
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Sep 27, 2023 01:09
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Gaz-L posted:It'd also be pretty easy to do for the bigger IPs. Just have Batman and Superman be all ages. No special branding, just have editors make it clear that there's certain guidelines for the creative teams in terms of how mature the content can be. And Detective and Action can be like they are now. Have there be Wonder Woman and Sensation Comics the same way. Marvel could have adjectiveless X-Men and Spider-Man and Avengers books for that, while ASM, Uncanny and I dunno, Mighty Avengers can go a little harder into the PG-13 and up territory. God forbid the Big 2 follow a Silver-Age philosophy where any comic is some kid's first comic, so tell a self-contained story in one issue instead of the multi-line multi-arc clusterfucks that permeate today, and/or treat continuity as a guideline & resource, not a bible. Imagine being able to walk into a comic store and buy 2-3 random different issues without needing a reading order guide.
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Sep 27, 2023 01:32
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I mean, that's an odd tack when we're talking about manga being a big seller for The Youth.
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Sep 27, 2023 01:57
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Well, with Manga you don't need to do postgrad work to find Volume 1. Usually.
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Sep 27, 2023 02:11
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there's a lot of discussion about The Youth but i'm pretty sure all these problems exist for the adults with lots of disposable income too
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Sep 27, 2023 02:28
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Wolverine is and has pretty much always been cool as hell. It rules that there are like 5 variations on the character running around now. I grew up in the early 80s and the only thing cooler were ninjas, but then Wolverine started fighting ninjas. I actually would like to see a Wolverine Family book. Speaking of getting kids to get comics and the early 80s, I'd like to see those old 3 packs of comics come back in toy aisles, where you'd have to roll the bag around to see if you liked the 3rd book in the middle. Getting an X-Men, a GI Joe, and an Indiana Jones was my jackpot.
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Sep 27, 2023 03:06
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Mr In Between needs to be old man Logan or something
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Sep 27, 2023 03:13
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Kids can jump in anywhere. They're smart. In large part they don't read superhero comics much anymore because the direct market killed it and you don't see Spidey on the shelf at the grocery store now.
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Sep 27, 2023 11:46
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Anecdotal counterpoint: as a kid in the 90's who liked Spider-Man and the X-Men, and whose family was too poor to afford a monthly pull, I had no loving idea what the hell was going on in either line with any given issue I got ("why is Magneto young? Why is Spiderman fighting Gremlins? Why does this issue have multiple different foil covers? etc") but reading my Dad's surviving comics from the 70's and 80's tended to be a more coherent experience.
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Sep 27, 2023 12:14
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Danknificent posted:This specifically is what I mean. There's a handful of the kids that I work with that use like the Viz or Shounen Jump app and read, and kids are constantly in my local comic shop buying manga, and I would guess that at the Junior High where I work that like 25% of the library books I see being carried around are manga and occasionally indie graphic novels from trad publishers. I'm not trying to suggest that they don't read, only that there's a certain lack of appetite for the general big 2 fare compared to more engaging creator-owned work and a lot of barriers like pricing and a lack of content aimed at under 13s. Free Comic Book Day was literally proposed by a retailer in 2001 because people were grousing about how the X-Men movie being big did not translate into big X-Men comics sales. The first FCBD was the same weekend that the first Spider-Man movie was released, the second the same weekend as X2, and many if not most of the past 22 FCBDs were scheduled to tie into a movie release. Anecdotally I know of several comic shops that cross-promoted (or even set up kiosks) at movie theaters. An effort was made, and it's been over twenty years and "comics are still dying". All-Ages/comics aimed at younger readers have been attempted for even longer (going back to Spidey Super Stories, which was a TV tie-in itself) and have never really gained a lasting foothold. Cheaper comics printed on newsprint or in black and white, anthologies, manga-sized digests of comics, original graphic novels of various types, everything has been attempted over the past 10-50 years. Nothing has 'fixed' superhero comics. But on the other hand, I grew up in the 1980s and 1990s as someone who was very into superhero comics but also just... reading in general? My school library had literally zero comic content. My local public library was a great public library, but the comics it had were pretty much nothing but comic strip collections, a couple of "50 Years of Superman/Batman" collections, an Origins of Marvel Comics, and a smattering of like... R. Crumb and Love & Rockets collections they probably should not have lent out to a twelve year old. My local libraries now have a ton of manga, yes, but also a shitload of western comics, whether it's Marvel/DC trades, action-genre trades from other publishers, OGNs for adults, OGNs for kids/teens, manga, etc. etc. etc. Even putting aside Dog Man or Fun Home or Walking Dead or manga, there are more Superman/Batman/X-Men/Spider-Man/Ms. Marvel/etc. comics available for free from the library than I could have possibly imagined 20-40 years ago. The Scholastic Book Fair flyers for BTS this year feature tons of comics (as opposed to a handful of Garfield and Peanuts collections) that run the gamut from One Piece to Dog Man/Babysitters Club to Miles Morales to Five Nights at Freddy's and Sonic the Hedgehog comics to biographies of Michael Jordan and Lebron James to lots of successful standalone YA graphic novels like Frizzy and Parachute Kids. Comics are all over the place in a way they were not when (I assume, unless there are some high schoolers on here) any of us were young. The fact that superheroes are so ubiquitous, and old(er) media is so easily accessible probably contributes to things. If you were a kid who liked Spider-Man before the year 2000, you had the option of buying/reading Spider-Man comics, once in awhile there would be a cartoon show on the air, a toy line or two, and I guess you could collect trading cards of Spider-Man. If you wanted more Spider-Man comics, you'd be digging through back issue bins, because there were few trade collections. Those were your options for Spider-Man. If you're a kid now, in addition to most of Spider-Man's published comic history being available digitally, in collections, and likely at your local library, you can also pretty easily access hundreds of episodes of the cartoons over the decades, at least a dozen movies, a bunch of video games, countless toys, YouTube videos and websites, prose novels, Spider-Man is loving everywhere, and a lot of Spider-Man fans are probably fine without watching the lovely 1960s cartoon that might be available at their local video store (RIP) or buying packs of trading cards to get the card with Tombstone's bio on it (RIP). Dawgstar posted:Kids can jump in anywhere. They're smart. In large part they don't read superhero comics much anymore because the direct market killed it and you don't see Spidey on the shelf at the grocery store now.
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Sep 27, 2023 13:10
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I remember around 2003/4/5ish?, Shounen Jump had a fat, English version that you could get in American grocery stores for like 4.99 that had Naruto, One Piece, Hikaru no Go, and a bunch of other really good ones in it. I think it was only monthly and it was way behind where the actual manga were at by that point, but I couldn't wait to get my hands on it and I had zero interest in any western comics. It was less about being creator owned and more about the secret sauce that made anime stand out from western cartoons. It was obviously different in many ways and equally if not more silly, but it also gave viewer/reader slightly higher stakes, more serialization, and various wish-fulfillment components that might have made it comparably more engaging. I think to really compete, big 2 would have to seriously examine some of the storytelling formulas and mechanisms at work because there's still plenty of appetite for that in the west. The Queen's Gambit did a 1:1 shounen manga formula and people liked it. It's not like "Turn comics for young readers into a manga," but maybe incorporate some of the elements. I think about some of the comics that I grew up with (late 90s) and then I think about reading a few chapters of Naruto and there's no comparison in how hooked I was at the time.
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Sep 27, 2023 13:38
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The problem is obviously that nowadays comics don't have enough holographic die cut covers.
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Sep 27, 2023 13:44
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Is Demon Days worth reading? I like Peach Momoko’s art a lot
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Sep 27, 2023 16:11
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Kulkasha posted:Anecdotal counterpoint: as a kid in the 90's who liked Spider-Man and the X-Men, and whose family was too poor to afford a monthly pull, I had no loving idea what the hell was going on in either line with any given issue I got ("why is Magneto young? Why is Spiderman fighting Gremlins? Why does this issue have multiple different foil covers? etc") but reading my Dad's surviving comics from the 70's and 80's tended to be a more coherent experience. This but nonsequencial rob liefeld comics where he drew the same character with different hair and sometimes face on the same page.
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Sep 27, 2023 16:19
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thetoughestbean posted:Is Demon Days worth reading? I like Peach Momoko’s art a lot That's the main draw, I'd say. It's fun to learn about Japanese mythology but the stories themselves didn't really grab me.
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Sep 27, 2023 16:33
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Chinston Wurchill posted:That's the main draw, I'd say. It's fun to learn about Japanese mythology but the stories themselves didn't really grab me. I'd also agree with this. I collect Momoko covers and art, and it was a far better view than read imo. Not bad, just didn't grab me either.
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Sep 27, 2023 16:48
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It sure is pretty tho
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Sep 27, 2023 16:52
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Danknificent posted:I remember around 2003/4/5ish?, Shounen Jump had a fat, English version that you could get in American grocery stores for like 4.99 that had Naruto, One Piece, Hikaru no Go, and a bunch of other really good ones in it. I think it was only monthly and it was way behind where the actual manga were at by that point, but I couldn't wait to get my hands on it and I had zero interest in any western comics. It was less about being creator owned and more about the secret sauce that made anime stand out from western cartoons. It was obviously different in many ways and equally if not more silly, but it also gave viewer/reader slightly higher stakes, more serialization, and various wish-fulfillment components that might have made it comparably more engaging. I think to really compete, big 2 would have to seriously examine some of the storytelling formulas and mechanisms at work because there's still plenty of appetite for that in the west. The Queen's Gambit did a 1:1 shounen manga formula and people liked it. It's not like "Turn comics for young readers into a manga," but maybe incorporate some of the elements. I think about some of the comics that I grew up with (late 90s) and then I think about reading a few chapters of Naruto and there's no comparison in how hooked I was at the time. I think you're just a weeb
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Sep 27, 2023 23:25
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Danknificent posted:I remember around 2003/4/5ish?, Shounen Jump had a fat, English version that you could get in American grocery stores for like 4.99 that had Naruto, One Piece, Hikaru no Go, and a bunch of other really good ones in it. I think it was only monthly and it was way behind where the actual manga were at by that point, but I couldn't wait to get my hands on it and I had zero interest in any western comics. Sales of physical Shonen Jump in Japan, while still much higher than the US counterpart ever was, have also been going steadily down for over thirty years. It's great that it worked for individuals and maybe even en masse in the 1940s or 1960s or 1990s, but it is a path forward pretty much literally no one anywhere is trying in 2023. quote:It was less about being creator owned and more about the secret sauce that made anime stand out from western cartoons. It was obviously different in many ways and equally if not more silly, but it also gave viewer/reader slightly higher stakes, more serialization, and various wish-fulfillment components that might have made it comparably more engaging. I think to really compete, big 2 would have to seriously examine some of the storytelling formulas and mechanisms at work because there's still plenty of appetite for that in the west. The Queen's Gambit did a 1:1 shounen manga formula and people liked it. It's not like "Turn comics for young readers into a manga," but maybe incorporate some of the elements. I think about some of the comics that I grew up with (late 90s) and then I think about reading a few chapters of Naruto and there's no comparison in how hooked I was at the time.
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Sep 28, 2023 05:51
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Aren't most major manga built for tankobon sales in the same way comics are built for graphic novel sales (I may have invented this)? How are the tankobon sales doing? I'd imagine they'd have to be better than the magazine sales to make anything work at all.
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Sep 28, 2023 08:11
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Nilbop posted:Aren't most major manga built for tankobon sales in the same way comics are built for graphic novel sales (I may have invented this)? Manga typically is written with serialization in mind over volume release. As for tankobon sales—Japan in particular has largely gone digital, with people buying subscriptions to digital versions of magazines as well as just buying individual series. France and the US still prefer to buy physical versions of manga—I think access to space at home is a factor.
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Sep 28, 2023 09:09
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How popular is manga in France? I was surprised earlier this year when I tried to order Primal Gods in Ancient Times and discovered that, while the tankobon wasn't available in the US (or Britain) yet, the French version was already on the market.
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Sep 28, 2023 10:39
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the french love manga, especially the sci fi manga for perverts
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Sep 28, 2023 10:44
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thetoughestbean posted:As for tankobon sales—Japan in particular has largely gone digital, with people buying subscriptions to digital versions of magazines as well as just buying individual series. France and the US still prefer to buy physical versions of manga—I think access to space at home is a factor. Shonen Jump and Viz's online subscription deals are amazing. SJ's is like 3 bucks a month to read 100 chapters a day.
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Sep 28, 2023 12:46
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Alaois posted:the french love manga, especially
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Sep 28, 2023 13:00
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Dawgstar posted:Shonen Jump and Viz's online subscription deals are amazing. SJ's is like 3 bucks a month to read 100 chapters a day. This is how I read One Piece. Well worth the 9-12 dollars for the months it took.
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Sep 28, 2023 13:16
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Is there ever gonna be fallout from the fact that every Future Timeline involving Krakoa either involves the mutants loving poo poo up, Humans loving poo poo up to kill mutants, or robots going "nah gently caress that" and doing a Skynet? Sinisterization counts as Mutants loving poo poo up.
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Sep 28, 2023 14:55
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Fivemarks posted:Is there ever gonna be fallout from the fact that every Future Timeline involving ftfy But I mean, the current fallout is the huge anti-mutant sentiment.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:10
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even if there was an alternate future timeline where everything wasn't completely hosed, kang would step in to conquer it.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:31
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Fivemarks posted:Is there ever gonna be fallout from the fact that every Future Timeline involving Krakoa either involves the mutants loving poo poo up, Humans loving poo poo up to kill mutants, or robots going "nah gently caress that" and doing a Skynet? Sinisterization counts as Mutants loving poo poo up.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:32
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Fivemarks posted:Is there ever gonna be fallout from the fact that every Future Timeline involving Krakoa either involves the mutants loving poo poo up, Humans loving poo poo up to kill mutants, or robots going "nah gently caress that" and doing a Skynet? Sinisterization counts as Mutants loving poo poo up. I've always thought since there's so many possible bad timelines, it would be fun if there was a story where it turned out that in the long run, true symbiosis between humanity and the Symbiotes always works out great. Everybody gets a Symbiote, the power difference between humans and mutants is reduced, humanity can fight any alien invader, everybody happy forever. I don't if that would still work now that it turns out Symbiotes are... a hivemind created by satan? I think? That's what they did with Symbiotes, right?
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Sep 28, 2023 15:39
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It's kind of the nature of comics (and maybe genre fiction in general) that any potential future is bad (or is at risk of becoming bad) because finding out the future is going to be perfectly fine basically ends the plot. At best, a good future is a plot device used to help the protagonist figure out how to solve their current conflict.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:41
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Fivemarks posted:Is there ever gonna be fallout from the fact that every Future Timeline involving Krakoa either involves the mutants loving poo poo up, Humans loving poo poo up to kill mutants, or robots going "nah gently caress that" and doing a Skynet? Sinisterization counts as Mutants loving poo poo up. They actually established a while back that this was the timeline where everything works out for mutants, until Karima went back in time in essentially a reverse Days of Future Past to try and prevent that.
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Sep 28, 2023 15:42
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The Krakoa era was inspired by Hickman trying to savescum a game of Civ I have no evidence for this but it makes too much sense
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Sep 28, 2023 15:56
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I mean let's be real even before the krakoa era every future the mutants were involved in were also hella lovely. The stuff Hickman came up with in hox/pox is not unique in that regard
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Sep 28, 2023 16:33
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I wonder if wally wood would have preferred to be a mangaka
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Sep 28, 2023 22:44
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Gripweed posted:I've always thought since there's so many possible bad timelines, it would be fun if there was a story where it turned out that in the long run, true symbiosis between humanity and the Symbiotes always works out great. Everybody gets a Symbiote, the power difference between humans and mutants is reduced, humanity can fight any alien invader, everybody happy forever. There was the future seen in Venom: The End which kind of goes in that direction glitchwraith posted:It's kind of the nature of comics (and maybe genre fiction in general) that any potential future is bad (or is at risk of becoming bad) because finding out the future is going to be perfectly fine basically ends the plot. At best, a good future is a plot device used to help the protagonist figure out how to solve their current conflict. I think that was part of what made the Legion of Superheroes work for DC*, since it's set 1000 years in the future they can have both " the near future is going to be bad times" but ultimately things work out by the time of the Legion *or at least how it should work, DC has spent most of the past 30-40 years or so loving that up by trying to make new versions of the concept more gritty and it never works
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Sep 29, 2023 01:01
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Man, Krakoa still feels like a bad loving idea, both in general, and in the specifics of it. LIke okay yeah you gotta get everyone in to make the all mutant nation, but you have to at least go "okay maybe this is a bad idea" when you bring in Mr. Sinister to help get your Immortality daisy chain working. Edit: Hell, Feilong isn't even entirely WRONG when it comes to Mars/Arakko. Why should the Mutants get to claim all of Mars? They should just be able to get like a bit of it. A large bit, but not the entire thing.
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Sep 29, 2023 01:05
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mystic pimp posted:I wonder if wally wood would have preferred to be a mangaka Probably not. Life as a mangaka can really loving suck
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Sep 29, 2023 01:08
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Fivemarks posted:Man, Krakoa still feels like a bad loving idea, both in general, and in the specifics of it. LIke okay yeah you gotta get everyone in to make the all mutant nation, but you have to at least go "okay maybe this is a bad idea" when you bring in Mr. Sinister to help get your Immortality daisy chain working. I always thought the Krakoan's justification of "If humanity was going to do it, why didn't they do it already? It's within their means" held water pretty well. And unlike Krakoa, Arrako pretty clearly doesn't have a no-humans-allowed policy, even if it's a bit more hostile in the general sense I wonder if there's a timeline where Krakoa was not headlined by several of worst mutants ever to live, where humanity started cooperating more in order to compete with mutants, but in a less genocidal way than Orchis does it
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Sep 29, 2023 02:36
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