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The story of Star Wars/Lucasfilm/ILM is almost as fascinating as the movies themselves, with their own accompanying lore and spinoffs.
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Sep 29, 2023 21:19
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The idea that an American would have some knowledge of their distant heritage’s language, especially someone with vague Dutch heritage from inland Norcal, is so loving funny to me.
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Sep 29, 2023 21:22
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Hazo posted:The story of Star Wars/Lucasfilm/ILM is almost as fascinating as the movies themselves, with their own accompanying lore and spinoffs.
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Sep 29, 2023 21:22
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Downtown Modesto is referred to by the locals as New Amsterdam so make sure you guys bring that up if you ever visit
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Sep 29, 2023 21:24
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Sentinel Red posted:FFS, not this poo poo again. Tatooine was not in or affiliated with the Galactic Republic, the Jedi had no authority or status there. What was Qui-Gon supposed to do, tell Amidala "sorry love, I know we've got to get to Coruscant to stop the Naboo being slaughtered by the bucketload but Obi-Wan and I now have to wage a two man crusade against an entire planet to free all the slaves in this regressive shithole state outside our jurisdiction"? In the end the cause is inconsistent world building and Lucas going over the top in the prequels, ie that he had to use outright slavery instead of being a bit more subtle. It made sense in the OT that the Empire wouldn't care about something like that and let certain regions decline to that degree but there is nothing in the prequels to properly put slavery into some context. It just exists and everyone seems to be aware but that's it. So it's up to the audience to come up with an explanation why an organisation that has an absolute power monopoly (noone can challenge the Galactic Republic as an institution) would just ignore it. For a place like Tatooine to exist many other factors need to be around for it to make any kind of sense, especially in combination with slavery. The thing is that the prequels don't really give us those factors. They start with a mundane trade conflict, not with serious policy issues within the Republic or that it isn't able to control its territory or that it couldn't project power. Anakin's background really should have been connected to the Separatist movement. Give us a planet (not Tatooine) that's in turmoil/open rebellion towards the Galactic Republic due to some issue, it could absolutely be poverty caused by Republic neglect (core/wealthy planets exploiting the outer worlds), racial tensions (TPM did have a BIT of that) etc. and let Anakin and Shmi live there. There is no reason for them to be slaves, just show how they suffer from poverty/inequality (worker/population exploitation would have been enough, especially if its framed as core Galactic Republic worlds extracting all the wealth generated by them, that would haven been a more relevant theme compared to "slavery bad") and open conflicts escalating on the streets etc. That way the Jedi have a better motivation to take Anakin (ie get him to safety) but you can also give Shmi an excuse to stay, ie she doesn't want to leave her home, she feels obligated to change things for the better there and you could even make her a political activist to improve things there (let her advocate for peace but also demand action from the Republic) instead of just being a boring house wife and poor holy Mary imitation (and she might have other people there she cares about and has a responsibility towards but at the same time does want to give Anakin a better future). In that environment it would also be a lot easier to show how the Jedi struggle between being the "keepers of peace" for the Galactic Republic while basically having to "put down" a violent rebellion that might go the wrong way about things but does have valid points while Anakin can still have regrets of leaving his mother behind and having other responsibilities as Jedi and thus being unable to help his mother in her fight (especially because he can't interfere politically in his role as Jedi and might even be forced to take sides with the Republic). That would have been a perfect setup for what Lucas did in ep2 because the Separatists would have been the "evolution" of this "rebellion" we saw in Ep1 and on top of that Shmi's death could have been caused by further conflict, ie the inability of the Galactic Republic to properly adress the issue and ongoing conflicts directly lead to his mother's death. Now he has a direct reason to be antagonistic towards the Galactic Republic (inaction and an inability to handle the situation "properly", even if violence would have been required to stop that rebellion in its tracks) AND the Separatists (their reckless attacks on the Republic cause Shmi's death). All of that would have also been a much better backdrop for Palpatine's schemes instead of using a Trade Federation and a paradise like planet such as Naboo (showing a sterile Trade organisation and a "paradise" as the root of all this conflict kinda undermines any attempt to show how things could get so bad in the Republic). PS: It would also be just as easy to integrate Padme into this. In my version she is the daughter of some high ranking member in the local government (for all I care let it be the electd(!) representative of that world in the senate) who has to deal with the situation and is maybe part of a faction that is sympathetic to Shmi's faction. Now Padme isn't just some random Queen Anakin met once, he sees his own mother in her and she sees some of Shmi's qualities reflected in Anakin. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Sep 29, 2023 |
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Sep 29, 2023 21:28
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Assepoester posted:http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/book.html To the point: Appendix C in this basically goes point by point and debunks the idea that Lucas had the Luke's Dad idea anytime before 1978 at the very earliest.
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Sep 29, 2023 21:36
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Padme Skywalker Shmi Skywalker When Shmi dies, Anakin has Padme Lacks Shmi
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Sep 29, 2023 21:48
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Sentinel Red posted:FFS, not this poo poo again. Tatooine was not in or affiliated with the Galactic Republic, the Jedi had no authority or status there. LinkesAuge posted:In the end the cause is inconsistent world building and Lucas going over the top in the prequels, ie that he had to use outright slavery instead of being a bit more subtle. quote:It made sense in the OT that the Empire wouldn't care about something like that and let certain regions decline to that degree but there is nothing in the prequels to properly put slavery into some context. It just exists and everyone seems to be aware but that's it. So it's up to the audience to come up with an explanation why an organisation that has an absolute power monopoly (noone can challenge the Galactic Republic as an institution) would just ignore it. Planets like Tattooine are the Galactic Third World. They exist within the Republic and are part of its economy, but the Senate can disclaim responsibility for any injustices that go on there, blaming them on local tyrants.
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Sep 29, 2023 22:05
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Anakin being a slave is also sort of odd looking back at it because it doesn't seem at all necessary to the story. Nor do the conditions he experienced really say "slave" more than "kinda poor kid that hangs around some guy's pick-n-pull shop." It really reads more like a contrived reason to strand Shmi on Tatooine. I'll always contend that Anakin should have been 20 to 25 in Episode 1 anyhow.
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Sep 29, 2023 22:09
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Serfs were basically slaves, probably would’ve been a better term for it
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Sep 29, 2023 22:18
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Watto beats Anakin. People ITT have weird ideas about slavery. Anakin isn't a serf; that's a specific thing. Watto isn't a landowning noble.
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Sep 29, 2023 22:22
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Droids Are Slaves isn't even anything the series contemplates beyond the weird bit in Solo that came off like a Harry Potter spoof It's a great topic of discussion in its own right but it's not a good burn against the Jedi
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Sep 29, 2023 22:25
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Assepoester posted:http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/book.html Yes, this. It's not terribly well written (I don't fault the author, the book is mostly cobbled together blog posts that he tried to make into a book after the fact, I just mean it as a warning for anyone who may read it), but it's insanely well researched. It's a fascinating read, I've read it about 3 times, and I have a physical copy.
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Sep 29, 2023 22:40
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Serf usually refers to a specific type of agrarian slave which Anakin isn’t. When Americans hear “slave” they think chattel slaves on plantations, which Anakin also isn’t. Basically people are being naive about slavery and how it fits into globalized society. When people (outside the movies) condemn the Jedi for not saving the slaves, they’re condemning themselves. They KNOW slavery is wrong, how can these knights who are supposed to be so wise and good do nothing about it? Well…welcome to the real world, the Jedi live in the capital and go out among the people only when they have to for their important government work, slavery continues in the back of beyond where nice people don’t have to see it or think about it. That’s shown to us, not told. I feel like some people in this thread could stand to watch Phantom Menace again.
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Sep 29, 2023 22:43
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maybealabia posted:Droids Are Slaves isn't even anything the series contemplates
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Sep 29, 2023 22:57
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It's still a level of chattel slavery, which is more US known, where Anakin became slave property because he was born as one. The Hutts just run Outer Rim areas so profitably for the Republic that the Senate turns a blind eye to whatever they're doing. That lasted to the Empire where they pretty much felt the same way. Nobody wanted to mess up their golden ticket with them.
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Sep 29, 2023 23:03
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Halloween Jack posted:...What? They're treated as equipment Our heros buy sell and gift them They love them like you might love a car No one ever says they should be free or anything remotely like that. They talk about clone representation and personhood in Bad Batch and nobody ever says a drat thing about droids Again, other than the one character in Solo that's played as a joke
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Sep 29, 2023 23:19
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The last season of The Mandalorian had an episode that also made the droids say they enjoy being slaves, basically. It's all very hosed up if you acknowledge they're sentient beings.
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Sep 29, 2023 23:24
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Snowmanatee posted:The last season of The Mandalorian had an episode that also made the droids say they enjoy being slaves, basically. It's all very hosed up if you acknowledge they're sentient beings. Oh it very much is hosed up It's just not something they generally examine about the world, it just is
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Sep 29, 2023 23:26
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The Jedi don't fight against slavery because they themselves are slaves to the force and cannot imagine any other system
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Sep 29, 2023 23:29
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HootTheOwl posted:The Jedi don't fight against slavery because they themselves are slaves to the force and cannot imagine any other system They're a literal cult, so they don't understand slavery. Inducted as kids, taught one way to go, generally treated like total crap if they leave and lose their support system, unless they're wealthy, like Dooku.
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Sep 29, 2023 23:41
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HootTheOwl posted:The Jedi don't fight against slavery because they themselves are slaves to the force and cannot imagine any other system Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion, I gain Strength. Through Strength, I gain Power. Through Power, I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.
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Sep 30, 2023 00:10
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maybealabia posted:They're treated as equipment In ANH, the "equipment" is fitted with restraining bolts to impede their freedom. In ESB, the "equipment" in Cloud City is buried in a mass grave, and C-3PO reacts badly to seeing it. In RotJ, Jabba shows his new "equipment" to the "equipment" quarters, where another "equipment" is being tortured. In TPM, the Trade Federation's "equipment" is controlled by a giant collar in space. Like Anakin's collar, if it explodes, they die.
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Sep 30, 2023 00:19
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Tequila Bob posted:In ANH, the "equipment" is fitted with restraining bolts to impede their freedom. I already said it's hosed up don't paint me as a robigot lol But yes, the characters are treating them like feisty semi autonomous machinery. We put things like restraining bolts on all sorts of things to stop other people from using them, or stop them from (for example) driving into children in crosswalks* Threepio is very much programmed to be person-like. We could have Alexa have similar reactions. Do you think Microsoft Tay was actually a considered antisemite who understood what "she" was saying? Again, I, personally, think at least some droids are very obviously people and slaves but it was all played as crazy sci fi poo poo and not a moral question the movies were actually asking. In my opinion.
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Sep 30, 2023 00:37
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HootTheOwl posted:The Jedi don't fight against slavery because they themselves are slaves to the force and cannot imagine any other system Currently listening to the Emily Wilson translation of The Iliad. You’re not wrong. Destiny will get its way. Edit: that is to say, even with the meta knowledge that we are viewing a narrative that adheres to certain genre principles, in universe the Force will make poo poo happen to get a prophesied outcome. We just kinda have to accept that as a critical viewer. Contrivance is a feature, not a bug. Marsupial Ape fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 00:57
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i'm all droid racisted out from cinema discusso, so let's talk about "passion" in the context of the jedi and sith the archaic meaning of the word comes from the latin "to suffer", which ties straight into yoda's fear-anger-hate-suffering-dark side koan - but the only context a modern audience is likely to understand this in is "the passion of christ". and as we all know, darth vader is star wars christ. the jedi code says "there is no passion (suffering), there is serenity", because the 'joke' is that they mistranslated their older texts that said "(suffering), yet serenity" - which fucks up the jedi's philosophy on every level, because they stop being ascetics who endure suffering and start being ascetics who ignore suffering, which is the root of all the issues that destroy them. the part where the romantic/emotional/sexual connotation of "passion" got picked up on and incorporated into their beliefs just makes this even worse. the declaration "peace is a lie, there is only (suffering)" can be read the same way - "peace, yet (suffering)" is effectively a succinct description of structural violence, but it's cynically reinterpreted as "violence is natural and good" because the sith (palpatine) are a bunch of self-serving assholes who love to take people suffering from structural violence (darth maul and general grievous are good examples) and turn them into weapons. the jedi and sith codes, the jedi koan yoda delivers in TPM, and the prophecy of the chosen one are all about a bunch of people misinterpreting what Darth Vader did, because the prequels are achronological sequels. darth vader, not anakin skywalker, was "a jedi, like [luke's] father before [him]", and nobody in either the prequels or sequels learned that lesson, though kylo ren was on the right track before an evil ghost tricked him into thinking he was the real christ
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Sep 30, 2023 01:13
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So did the Empire conquer Tatooine because it was theirs by Luke's time?
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Sep 30, 2023 01:29
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Tatooine has nothing of value so there's no point conquering it and no resistance when they land some storm troopers. What are the Hutts going to do? Challenge an ISD?
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Sep 30, 2023 01:34
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Sep 30, 2023 01:45
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TIE Fighter Thrawn is really cool and I'm honestly more into that version of the character. -He personally takes an interest in your career from afar and pluck you out to fly for him part way through the game. -In this version he has nothing to do with the tie defender project, that's Admiral Zaarin who is the empirely up and coming technocrat admiral that the empire has entrusted massive amounts of industrial and R&D resources to manage. -Between ESB and ROTJ Zaarin decides his small high-tech high-quality military could be successful in a coup against the Emperor. He launched an almost successful decapitation attack in orbit of coruscant to kill the emperor aboard his personal star destroyer, but its only the heroic action of the player and thrawn that the plan is barely stopped and the emperor is saved. -Thrawn then leads an extremely underdog campaign trying to stop Zaarin's coup which seems very poised for success even with the emperor saved. Thrawn has to use brilliant tactics, deception, and just generally being extremely scrappy to punch above his weight in the campaign. -In the end Zaarin is defeated and Thrawn is promoted to grand admiral. It's a great campaign and puts the player and thrawn almost in the role of the rebels, a very underdog position. Also Tie Fighter Reimagined mod is extremely good! Squadrons is such trash compared to the huge proper space battles in these games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH0GD_i9Qgw Also has fully remastered dynamic music that made the TIE fighter sound scape so cool Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 01:47
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XvT has a thrawn cameo in one of the missions where if you hang around for an hour and do certain things he shows up in a SSD and nukes a station
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Sep 30, 2023 01:59
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Spookydonut posted:XvT has a thrawn cameo in one of the missions where if you hang around for an hour and do certain things he shows up in a SSD and nukes a station Is that the one where you're doing scans in an A wing?
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Sep 30, 2023 02:11
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I like how Thtawn decides Zaarin's weakness is his reliance on superior technology and his answer to this is an even superior fighter craft that will later be referred to as the "God emperor of fighters"
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Sep 30, 2023 02:13
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X-Wing Alliance had a mission where you had to make a hasty and random emergency hyperspace jump. When you drop out to see if you're safe, you've accidentally jumped into an Imperial gunnery range. The Chimera and the rest of Thrawn's task force are conducting target practice.
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Sep 30, 2023 02:30
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i need a dip in the bacta tank after a few episodes a this boring crap! that twilek lady's hologram dont make no drat sense
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Sep 30, 2023 03:01
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Do you think it was an intentional political commentary that Jar Jar is still only made a Junior Representative and not a full senator, even though the Naboo are colonial settlers clearly illegally occupying the Gungan's home planet and dispossessing an amphibious species by forcing them to live only underwater, or do you think Lucas thought the Gungans were too primitive to rule themselves? I don't think it's the latter (which isn't to say I think it's the former). The Gungans don't come across as particularly primitive (compare them to the Ewoks for example) and even if they did all through the OT Lucas uses a low tech v high tech framing for the conflict.
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Sep 30, 2023 03:01
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HootTheOwl posted:Is that the one where you're doing scans in an A wing? quote:Easter egg: Nothing more to see here
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Sep 30, 2023 03:08
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HootTheOwl posted:Tatooine has nothing of value so there's no point conquering it and no resistance when they land some storm troopers. It's not a question of challenging an ISD, it's a question of what happens afterwards. During the Empire's reign, if you take out the local Victory Star Destroyer, you're probably getting an ISD or two coming in to make sure nobody else gets ideas of doing the same elsewhere by leveling the city housing whoever might be responsible. When the Empire falls, that local Star Destroyer doesn't have anyone to call for help anymore and it's a lot more vulnerable.
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Sep 30, 2023 09:32
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's not a question of challenging an ISD, it's a question of what happens afterwards. During the Empire's reign, if you take out the local Victory Star Destroyer, you're probably getting an ISD or two coming in to make sure nobody else gets ideas of doing the same elsewhere by leveling the city housing whoever might be responsible.
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Sep 30, 2023 09:43
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Assepoester posted:Yeah, it's extremely telling that the stormtrooper heads on pikes happened, like, days after Luke killed Jabba. Tatooine was rearing to go kill some imperials and they didn't need the Hutts to help. Also the local Imperial presence is a lovely token presence of a dud assignment by the sounds of it, with most of what we see in ANH being Vader's lot looking for R2 and C-3PO. The local stormies would've probably been dead within minutes of hearing the Emperor's gone and there's chaos everywhere.
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Sep 30, 2023 09:46
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