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So can I be a half-elf/half-orc now
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Sep 30, 2023 22:04
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:So can I be a half-elf/half-orc now You have to pick one as dominant, so an elf with Dromaar heritage or an orc with Aiuvarin heritage, but yes, that's the way I think we're reading it.
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Sep 30, 2023 23:45
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Can you make a half dwarf or is no one loving the dwarves still.
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Oct 1, 2023 03:52
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Impermanent posted:Can you make a half dwarf or is no one loving the dwarves still. Poster who hasn't played Dark Sun spotted!!!
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Oct 1, 2023 05:32
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Silver2195 posted:Goblin and Gnome are common ancestries, though, so you don't actually need a rare ancestry to have an ancestry-based excuse to be "wacky." Impermanent posted:Can you make a half dwarf or is no one loving the dwarves still. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Poster who hasn't played Dark Sun spotted!!!
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Oct 1, 2023 06:05
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I'm GMing in my own setting, one in which I've described roughly the makeup of the world in terms of which ancestries exist where (lots of dwarves in the mining country of the North, lots of elves in the forests of the south, orcs thend to have moderately recent ancestry in an area called the Reach, kobolds tend to be from one massive deep forest in pseudogermany) and my rule for players was basically: 1) pick any ancestry you like, but justify your pick's existence in the setting. 2) people in the world will react to how common or uncommon your ancestry is, and those reactions will be greater the more rare or unique the ancestry is. So one of my players had a fun concept for a character who was a gourd leshy druid. I hadn't talked about leshies in the material I'd written about the world, but they weren't inherently impossible for the setting in the way that automata might be. So we worked out that as the adventure started with a carriage getting ambushed on its way through a forest, the leshy was a guardian spirit of the forest who had decided to become an adventurer. And they're the first leshy that most people in the world have seen, and people respond to them as such. It opened up some nice story beats. I think for me the lesson is "talk with your players while they're developing their characters".
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Oct 1, 2023 11:05
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Lamuella posted:I think for me the lesson is "talk with your players while they're developing their characters". I’m a lurker 99% of the time, but I unironically love reading about these positive experiences in GMing. It’s like the opposite of r/rpghorrorstories. Much better formatting too.
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Oct 1, 2023 15:53
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Lamuella posted:I think for me the lesson is "talk with your players while they're developing their characters". "So you want to play this ancestry?" "Yup" "Cool. You understand in this region it's really hard to justify why people would be have met anyone with this ancestry, and that will affect your social interactions?" "Yeah I know." "Ok I won't make it unpleasant or difficult but you will run into different reactions from the rest of the party and have to account for that, even for things like lodging and basic supplies. You won't have to endure" "Of course. That makes sense." /fast forward to the session "The innkeeper's wife whispers something to her spouse. They seem uneasy and give your character a whale eye while they talk. The innkeeper refuses the party lodging and says they're full. You'll have to look around town for some other place to stay." "I can't do this. You didn't warn me it would be like this. I can't handle this. Sorry but I'm out." That + multiple experiences where every player wanted to be some ultra rare, lonely, brooding outsider made me develop the rule where first they have to prove they can work with the party/setting before they do something more wild. It works, even if most players when hearing that still default to Elf instead of the much more awesome Gnome/Goblin  .
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Oct 1, 2023 17:14
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mind the walrus posted:That + multiple experiences where every player wanted to be some ultra rare, lonely, brooding outsider made me develop the rule where first they have to prove they can work with the party/setting before they do something more wild. It works, even if most players when hearing that still default to Elf instead of the much more awesome Gnome/Goblin I can't stand Pathfinder goblins as portrayed myself.
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Oct 1, 2023 17:21
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mind the walrus posted:"So you want to play this ancestry?" That seems unpleasant and annoying to have to deal with for me, I'd probably stick with a common ancestry and not play anything more unique too in that situation Piell fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 18:09
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mind the walrus posted:"So you want to play this ancestry?" I do get where you're going but I also feel like the kind of person who reacts like this in this situation was going to react like this to some other stimulus anyway. Thankfully my games generally aren't with people like this.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:17
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Mine aren't anymore-- I'm explaining the kinds of scenarios that happened that prompted the basic house rule and it's a natural extension of... talking with the players. I explain why I have it and I have yet to get anyone who has gone "oh well no thank you I couldn't stand to play a human, elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, half-elf, half-orc or goblin" in response to that.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:24
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oh no foolin? thats so weird. i wonder why people would avoid the "much more awesome" options after their gm grinds an axe about ancestries and special snowflake players who need to earn privledges?? 
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Oct 1, 2023 18:42
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Yeah I just pretty much let players use whatever ancestry they want? It's a fantasy game, in a world full of all sorts of things, I can't imagine prior doing more than a double take and then a shrug at someone unusual (except *maybe* the undead).
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Oct 1, 2023 18:45
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"What do you mean I can't be an android? This class guide I found online says android is the best for my class, so are you just trying to gently caress me over or what?"
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Oct 1, 2023 18:48
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Rescue Toaster posted:"What do you mean I can't be an android? This class guide I found online says android is the best for my class, so are you just trying to gently caress me over or what?" human is one of the most optimal ancestries for like every single class so this seems like a weird thing to have an issue with, there's like no extra optimization to be had with weird anciestries
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Oct 1, 2023 18:52
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I think better communication about what "not unpleasant or difficult" entails makes all the difference there. Saying you won't make it hard, then springing the fact that they're effectively pariahs in every town and routinely denied service can feel like vengeful DMing, even if it just comes from a communication hiccup.
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Oct 1, 2023 18:53
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I would simply not make a big deal about player ancestry nor use it as an excuse to make things hard for the players. poo poo, what'd be next? "I see you want to play a pixie? Well the magic items in my world don't magically adjust size, so good luck finding any magic gear for yourself."
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Oct 1, 2023 19:03
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mind the walrus posted:The hobby of TTRPGs attracts demographics that get overexcited about playing whatever weird socially asynchronous ancestry/race they can conceive which "demographics" are those, out of curiosity
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Oct 1, 2023 19:13
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I just don't allow them unless the player wants to be a part of the campaign, as in "they're an early android prototype that the mad alchemist you're trying to stop made". Then when it's time to adventure in the mad alchemist lair I feed the player some memories/backstory that they can use to help the party. I really don't like when players play extremely exotic ancestries and then want them to be treated like your typical human merchant. That drabs up the fantasy world. Those ancestries should be special, if you're a Fleshwarp there should be a lot of spotlight time devoted to that, it shouldn't just be some throwaway bag that you took to get feats you wanted (that's what adopted ancestry is for). I guess from reading the reddit a TON of people go absolutely gaga for Kitsune, and any kind of anthropomorphic animal is always popular, so that kind of thing is fine and normal by me. But play some weird rear end droid gunslinger from three thousand miles away? We gotta make that special, unless it's Eberron. I'm sure I'm gonna get "you're doing it wrong" but it's one of the few areas of TTRPG that I've never had a problem with. poo poo I even bought the Dragon and Year of Monsters ancestry stuff from Battlezoo (and plan to buy their Pokemon Trainer ripoff class) in case the players want to try that, but they will need to elevate their participation if that's the route they want to go down.
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Oct 1, 2023 19:14
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The Bee posted:I think better communication about what "not unpleasant or difficult" entails makes all the difference there. Saying you won't make it hard, then springing the fact that they're effectively pariahs in every town and routinely denied service can feel like vengeful DMing, even if it just comes from a communication hiccup. Yeah at least for me having to deal with lovely racism all the time would absolutely qualify as 'unpleasant'
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Oct 1, 2023 19:15
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To be absolutely clear, my attitude of "if people haven't seen someone of your ancestry before they may react differently" is very much not "You will constantly experience racism". To use my player's gourd leshy again, there's a quest arc that involves a secretive society of largely leaf druids. For most of the party, trying to find information about them is going to be a matter of stonewalling. There's a human druid in the party and she's got a decent chance of finding things out. But a gourd leshy? A living , talking representation of the Green Faith? The druids will fall over themselves to help them. Possibly to the point of it being unhelpful. Lamuella fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 19:25
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I just don't allow them unless the player wants to be a part of the campaign, as in "they're an early android prototype that the mad alchemist you're trying to stop made". Then when it's time to adventure in the mad alchemist lair I feed the player some memories/backstory that they can use to help the party. well yeah for sure, and that's the inherent angle for what Rare ancestries are for basically that reason. there's just kind of a world of difference between 'hey so in-universe the people like you are unheard of depending on the region and there's going to be a spotlight on you and your friends about that" and "the spotlight is just things being harder for you because of fantasy racism that looks exactly like real world racism". Skyelan fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 19:27
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if u are a leshy in my campaign u WILL be hunted by vegan worshippers of Zura at some point this is not negotiable
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Oct 1, 2023 19:46
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Skyelan posted:which "demographics" are those, out of curiosity Skyelan posted:there's just kind of a world of difference between 'hey so in-universe the people like you are unheard of depending on the region and there's going to be a spotlight on you and your friends about that" and "the spotlight is just things being harder for you because of fantasy racism that looks exactly like real world racism".  Skyelan posted:oh no foolin? thats so weird. i wonder why people would avoid the "much more awesome" options after their gm grinds an axe about ancestries and special snowflake players who need to earn privledges?? sugar free jazz posted:if u are a leshy in my campaign u WILL be hunted by vegan worshippers of Zura at some point this is not negotiable Lamuella posted:To be absolutely clear, my attitude of "if people haven't seen someone of your ancestry before they may react differently" is very much not "You will constantly experience racism". The paranoia horror campaign set in the backwoods? Yeah you're gonna raise an eyebrow from the locals and deal with it if you insist on being the weirdest motherfucker these hillbillies have ever seen, and by "deal with it" I mean "spend an extra thirty seconds to talk to the shady dude across town and find the totally cool underground locations I whipped up for y'all." The whimsical Fey campaign across the globe? The campaign where everyone is from the circus? The martial arts tournament on dinosaur island? gently caress it go with whatever, but prove you can be party-oriented in addition to whatever meme concept is kicking around your dome. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 1, 2023 19:59
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mind the walrus posted:You're a wankjob who can't read. Enjoy the self-righteousness. Nah, you kinda sound like a prick, not gonna lie. "People won't let you shop or get lodging or similar" definitely would qualify as "unpleasant and difficult" imo, especially when the behavior mirrors real life racism.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:21
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At the end of the day, this entire conversation is just a vaguely groggy way to describe talking to your group and discussing what your expectations are. Yes, it sounds like every old GM who keeps complaining that kids these days keep showing up trying to play Drizzt, not realizing that the fantasy nerd community has moved past their standards and people unironically want to play cool Drizzts. But also, if one of your players wants to make a cool Drizzt and you don't think they'd fit into your group's vibes, you still have that conversation about what they want from the character and how to make it fit in a mutually satisfying way. We can call them old sticks in the mud about players showing up with conrasu and shisk, but old sticks in the mud should still try to be clear about things they don't want in their game.
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Oct 1, 2023 20:26
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mind the walrus posted:The exact ones that would entitle you to be a douchebag. Yeah, those. sorry i genuinely don't understand what you mean here, what demographic does that?  quote:I suppose I shouldn't have left off all the pages of actual conversation I had that contextualiz-- wait lmao you wouldn't have read it anyway idk, if there's context that makes the claim of "I won't make it unpleasant or difficult" not be an immediately broken pledge by 'you get some real world racism thrown in your face', that seems kind of important to your point regardless of how dumb or illiterate i am. quote:You're a wankjob who can't read. Enjoy the self-righteousness. did you not talk about players who want to play uncommon ancestries like they're children who have to prove they can handle chores before they get a treat? my dyslexia must've been acting up. Skyelan fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Oct 1, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 20:31
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mind the walrus posted:"So you want to play this ancestry?" I really think you come across as kind of a chore to be around if your reaction was to say "I won't make it unpleasant for you" and then the literal first interaction you had was making sure the npcs were racist as poo poo. Like the issue isn't people playing less common (and I mean that as in "Not usually in the bland D&D base core" and not "Less common in setting" because those are very different things and you seem to care way more about the former") it's just you being boring as poo poo and also seemingly annoying because you decided to not actually discuss what you want and are getting pissy about it here.
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Oct 1, 2023 21:04
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Another thing you can do is have the character give an exotic race a spin as a local guide or drop-in for a few levels. That has worked great, let them experience the novelty and fun and then when they're over it and it's just another ancestry they can switch back to a more conventional choice. Especially if you have a Corvid type player who gets distracted by the latest shiny thing. This is a great way to redirect that energy to something useful that still fits the campaign. I have a player that I know is going to want to flip characters every 3 levels or so, and this is how we handle it.
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Oct 1, 2023 21:12
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I feel like a lot of it is this unspoken assumption that players ONLY want to play rare ancestries because of min/max reasons or because they just have to be the most special of the special snowflakes, and not for the simple reason of "they think it's cool and would have fun playing it."
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Oct 1, 2023 21:15
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I knew about leshies but, until this diversion, I didn't know about ghorans. As someone who really digs Guild Wars 2's sylvari race, I think they'd be really need to play, but I'd probably get "a whale eye" if I ever tried. Admittedly, that rare race really is numerically rare, so it's harder to justify. Also yeah echoing the folks who point out that fantasy racism that results in direct denial of service is, in fact, a form of "making it unpleasant and difficult."
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Oct 1, 2023 21:21
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the_steve posted:I feel like a lot of it is this unspoken assumption that players ONLY want to play rare ancestries because of min/max reasons or because they just have to be the most special of the special snowflakes, and not for the simple reason of "they think it's cool and would have fun playing it." i sometimes wonder if this common expectations divide on 'unconventional' fantasy ancestries and why people would want to be them comes from a sort of like. "has the person grown up playing jrpgs/had an anime teen phase or not" thing. like its a bit of a pat oversimplification of course, but in those spaces you do get exposed to a lot of both; 1: nonhuman characters who aside from being sometimes being Mascots are otherwise treated at absolute most no more weird than An Eccentric Person 2: totally normal humans who extremely are tortured and have baggage to process that want to overcome their heritage and prove themselves as the underdog who can make it so the idea of "Special Snowflake Who Faces Prejudice And Proves It Wrong" as inherently a non-human thing is just. completely foreign to many types who just wanna be a furry or a cool plant or a cyborg or a dwarf-rhino.
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Oct 1, 2023 21:32
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the choice of picking an ancestry for non mechanical reasons disgusts me.
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Oct 1, 2023 21:38
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sugar free jazz posted:the choice of picking an ancestry for non mechanical reasons disgusts me. My pixie fighter has 16 strength because of the ancestry malus 
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Oct 1, 2023 22:00
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Dick Burglar posted:I knew about leshies but, until this diversion, I didn't know about ghorans. As someone who really digs Guild Wars 2's sylvari race, I think they'd be really need to play, but I'd probably get "a whale eye" if I ever tried. Admittedly, that rare race really is numerically rare, so it's harder to justify. You don't have to justify it. You're playing magical house with your friends. The rules aren't divine law. Kyrosiris posted:My pixie fighter has 16 strength because of the ancestry malus Pixie Monk in D&D 4E was so goddamn fun.
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Oct 1, 2023 22:16
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so far the pcs for my upcoming campaign are goblin cleric, leshy druid, and elf (secretly changeling) thaumaturge. it's kingmaker though so a lot of these are going to thematically work pretty good. fourth player hasn't chosen yet
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Oct 1, 2023 22:28
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You don't have to justify it. This isn't completely correct. The rulebooks are the divine law of Golarion and accurately describe both the physical and metaphysical realities of the universe. Much like the elder scrolls in their universe, and breaking the rules is achieving CHIM like in the elder scrolls.
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Oct 1, 2023 22:29
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Impermanent posted:so far the pcs for my upcoming campaign are goblin cleric, leshy druid, and elf (secretly changeling) thaumaturge. it's kingmaker though so a lot of these are going to thematically work pretty good. fourth player hasn't chosen yet i am running abomination vaults with a dream dragon, duskwalker gnoll, lizardfolk, ghost poppet, and tiefling vanara. these are all at least uncommon and all the major AV NPCs outside the dungeon are humans, dwarfs, or halflings, but they all have a reasonably thematic fit with everything going on in the module, and i prefer the angle of "you are all consequences of things happening inside the dungeon and are therefore scrungly weirdos" to "you are unrelated adventurers from outside" and to be clear these were things they wanted to play for mechanical reasons that only needed slight massaging into compatibility with the plot of the module Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 1, 2023 22:39
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Gonna run the starter box on foundry with some friends who are pf2e newbies, and me a newbie to GMing on foundry so this should be fun!
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Oct 2, 2023 00:04
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