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i think the vast majority of sports cars drivers never take their cars to the track. particularly in your price range where you stand to lose the entire car and all your money should you make a mistake
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Sep 22, 2023 15:17
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Travic posted:Thanks for the good advice everyone. I'm very new to all this. I'll look into as many of those as I can. One last thing. How wary should I be of used sports cars? I'm worried about getting something someone leased, thrashed around the track a bunch, then returned. https://www.toyota.com/gr86/ drat these things are cheap.
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Sep 22, 2023 15:32
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Motronic posted:Can you explain why you're worried about this scenario? Do you think these cars aren't capable of being thrashed around a track or that it somehow creates hidden damage? Hopefully you're not someone who thinks using the entire pedal you paid for is going to "break" your car. Track driving can be really hard on a car for things like fluid temps and clutch wear and brakes, but those things are all consumables. The biggest concern I see from track driving is from people with no mechanical sympathy who don't take track driving into account when it comes to maintenance schedules or tend to go on off-road excursions and damage the suspension or something. I'd say that's the exception though. Most people who track their cars actually know how to properly maintain things and are checking wear items much more frequently than a typical driver. Remember that even if you track a car several times a year, you're going to be putting at most a couple hundred miles of track driving on it. Unless you money shift it or something, that's a drop in the bucket for the drivetrain. I HAVE seen cars explode a diff or throw a rod through the block on track, but that's not exactly "hidden" damage you aren't going to notice. I'd rather buy a sports car from the enthusiast who regularly tracks it and maintains it properly than a kid who dumps the clutch at every stop light and never changes the oil. KillHour fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Sep 22, 2023 |
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Sep 22, 2023 15:33
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Ok cool. I feel better now. Thanks.
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Sep 22, 2023 16:04
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Alright, gonna throw this out there in case some useful feedback comes from it. My wife and I are going to get a new family vehicle and we're fairly set on a new Yukon. For a while, we'd figured the SLT trim level, with the 3.0 diesel, was the way we wanted to go. But after a few weeks/months (we're very slow vehicle purchase decision makers because we actually enjoy hemming and hawing over it forever like idiots), we're questioning whether we might want to go with the AT4 trim level instead. The price is close enough that it's basically a wash, but the AT4 is not available with the diesel engine. Financially, we're not concerned about affording either, but would of course prefer not to spend more money needlessly. So the diesel is appealing from that standpoint: while diesel is often a decent bit more expensive, it doesn't seem like it's enough to overcome the difference in gas mileage. On the other hand I've heard lots of concerning things about modern diesels with maintenance and repair costs, and that despite their better fuel mileage it's not clear to me that they're any better if not worse in terms of emissions. The AT4 trim is, subjectively, better looking and more appealing to both of us. I'm sure that the SLT would be sufficiently capable for any driving off pavement we would do (a fair amount, but nothing challenging or technical). But it is also better equipped and has a few more things that are nice to have standard. We'd probably get it with the 5.3L engine, rather than the 6.2L: I feel pretty confident the 5.3 would be plenty for us, and the 6.2 recommends premium fuel. I know for a newer engine like that it's probably really more of a recommendation than a requirement, but where I live most of the gas stations are quite expensive except for one, that is usually $1+ cheaper than the rest, but doesn't have premium. So it feels pretty silly to get a car that wants it. That's fairly rambly, but I guess in short I'm curious if anyone reading has much specific knowledge about that range of GM engines and has strong opinions one way or the other about their quality, reliability, etc.
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Sep 30, 2023 04:25
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5.3 vs 6.2: do you have significant towing needs
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Sep 30, 2023 05:07
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Hadlock posted:5.3 vs 6.2: do you have significant towing needs Towing needs but not significant. A small 19’ ski boat that we want to be able to use the new car to tow, most often just a few miles to a nearby reservoir. For anything heavy, we have an F350.
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Sep 30, 2023 05:13
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If you get the 6.2 that drinks premium you're gonna be kicking yourself every time you have to drive an extra 20 min round trip to the other station for gas
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Sep 30, 2023 05:34
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Agreed, which is why we were figuring on the 5.3 if we got the AT4. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I did want to leave that question at least a little bit open though because if anyone thinks, say, the 5.3 is hot garbage and the 6.2 is great, that’s an opinion I’d like to know about Steve French fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Sep 30, 2023 |
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Sep 30, 2023 05:47
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Steve French posted:Agreed, which is why we were figuring on the 5.3 if we got the AT4. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. GM dweeb, hello. As I understand it they're both somewhat subject to cylinder deactivation system failures, the 6.2 for the last couple of years at least particularly so, which has been attributed to faulty supplier parts...but they've had a bit of an iffy reputation for rapid unplanned disassembly of the valvetrains for years, to the point of there being a whole little industry around removing the system entirely purely over reliability concerns. Probably a high 4 figure dollar amount if it happens and you're out of warranty, but a known enough problem that you're not likely to get any guff over getting it fixed if it does happen within; being very on top of oil quality (and quantity) will probably help. One of those things where, statistically it's probably not that likely, it's not like there's any shortage of decade-old V8s cruising around perfectly happily, but there's enough yelling about it by people who clearly understand what happened and why that there's clearly something there. The other way of looking at is that nothing else appears to go majorly wrong with them very much so it may may get more air time than it really deserves as a result. I probably wouldn't trust a 6.2 until they've had a few drama-free years behind them, though. The diesel you always hear about how the engine has to practically come out to do belts etc, so it'll probably present you with a large bill once or twice over the course of ownership, then just a question of diesel emissions control equipment being inherently suspect these days. Purely anecdotally it seems not to be too bad on the 3.0s though, I think the general sense from owners is kind of 'happy but nervous' - I wonder if it's just a case of smaller engine so less insane heat/soot issues than you see on some of the really giant diesels the US tends to like to stick in things. If you were buying a pickup the engine to get actually seems to be the 2.7 4cyl turbo, oddly enough, which appears to be essentially unkillable, but I don't think it's posh enough to go in any of the Suburban-likes.
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Sep 30, 2023 08:32
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Thanks for all that. And yeah, 3.0 diesel, 6.2 and 5.3 gas engines are all that’s available on the Yukon. Meanwhile, went to a neighbors house for his kids birthday party yesterday and he wants to offload one of his two (??) diesel excursions…
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Oct 1, 2023 22:59
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Steve French posted:Meanwhile, went to a neighbors house for his kids birthday party yesterday and he wants to offload one of his two (??) diesel excursions… I always thought excursions were just a ridiculous non-answer to the already wildly popular suburban and just a really bad idea, bus drat I'd totally take a diesel one and immediately ruin it with a mild lift and knobby tires.
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Oct 1, 2023 23:04
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Motronic posted:I always thought excursions were just a ridiculous non-answer to the already wildly popular suburban and just a really bad idea, bus drat I'd totally take a diesel one and immediately ruin it with a mild lift and knobby tires. The money we’d save not buying a new Yukon would pay for a lot of dumb poo poo like that, I’m honestly pretty tempted. It’ll come down to details and how much my wife is okay with not having more modern comforts like auto 4wd, heated seats/wheel, cameras. It’s stupidly large but also reminding myself it’s still shorter in overall length and wheelbase than our F150, which I’ve never found all that cumbersome to drive.
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Oct 1, 2023 23:26
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Steve French posted:Thanks for all that. And yeah, 3.0 diesel, 6.2 and 5.3 gas engines are all that’s available on the Yukon. If you can get that at an even remotely decent price you should jump if you’re interested. Those are highly sought after if memory serves. Like one with low miles went for an insane amount on bring a trailer in the last couple years
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Oct 1, 2023 23:27
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Looking for some new car leasing/buying advice. All the cars I’ve ever had have either been family hand me downs or private purchases. So despite doing a bunch of research and feeling prepared, I had a dealership experience yesterday that felt like I was getting royally screwed so I walked away. Mostly curious on how much better I could have done and what to do differently next time. I’m leaning towards leasing because I drive under 10,000 miles a year and after being a serial used car guy the idea of committing to something for a long time is uncomfortable. Location: South Bay Area California Car: 2023 Honda Accord LX (Not married to the make/model but my wife loves her Hondas and I don’t hate em) Photo of their offer sheet:  Text version(fake edit: posting on mobile and can’t get the numbers aligned even with code tags, sorry) Car + Extras Market Value Selling Price: 28845 Car Doc 5 Year: 1395 Wheel Locks: 199 ELO GPS 5 Year: 1695 ProPack: 1995 (mud guards, floor mats, trunk tray) Clear Shield: 995 Paint & Fabric: 995 Total Purchase: 36119 Trade Allowance: -500 Trade Difference: 35,619 Doc Fee: 80 Tax: 45.82 Non Tax Fees: 727.75 Overall total (my math): 36,473 Payment: code:This was for a mileage limit of 35,000 over the 3 years Assumed residual value of 61% after 3 years The money factor (cut off in my photo) was between .00186 - .00188. They had my credit score as 769. Credit Karma has it as 725. Other than that they were playing a big “we’ll go over the lease details after you’ve agreed to the terms” game and I wasn’t having it. So, I felt like the biggest red flag was that after some negotiating, my total 3 year cost to lease this car was basically just under the MSRP of the car. Seemed very high to me! Plus they were acting real unwilling to negotiate on most of the add-ons, and didn’t actually have a car with the interior I wanted on the lot, so I walked. Punching the numbers the dealership was sharing with me into truecar’s lease estimator gave me this:  And the one at Edmunds gave me this:  Either way, my intuition seems to have been correct and they were clearly trying to milk me for several thousand dollars over the term at 100-200 extra a month. So TLDR #1: When I try this again, with them or another dealer, what do I need to say/ask for to get them to actually show me the full lease cost/calculations? They wouldn’t put anything on paper except what I posted above. I assume because it would just be obvious they’re trying to shake me down. Or do I just need to negotiate harder on price and try to push them below MSRP for the starting point? Or is this actually a reasonable price to be paying with their dealer add ons? TLDR #2: These guys were adamant that they were NOT going to take off any of their dealer add-ons except the Car Doc protection package. But obviously poo poo like wheel locks, trunk tray, and extra floor mats are very easy to take off/just not put in the car. So I probably could have gotten some movement there. The ELO GPS just sounded stupid when they were describing it and it sounds even stupider after reading about it online. Again, they insisted they couldn’t take it off, but they did take $1500 off their original price for the extra paint protection and interior cloth warranty. What’s a reasonable goal here for me to negotiate down/take stuff off?
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Oct 2, 2023 19:49
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Don't lease a Honda Accord.
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Oct 2, 2023 19:52
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Ol' Limber Legs posted:The ELO GPS just sounded stupid when they were describing it and it sounds even stupider after reading about it online. Again, they insisted they couldn’t take it off, but they did take $1500 off their original price Doesn't matter. You don't want it. You don't want a car that a meth head in the back bay of the dealership hacked this into. You don't want to do business with a dealership that does thing kind of thing, period. The other thing that looks way off is $500 for your trade in. That's just about scrap value. As in "metal by weight" value. What is it and in what condition?
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Oct 2, 2023 19:53
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Motronic posted:Doesn't matter. You don't want it. You don't want a car that a meth head in the back bay of the dealership hacked this into. You don't want to do business with a dealership that does thing kind of thing, period. One of the dealerships chains near me modifies the brake lights on every single car they sell to flash and I loving hate it with a burning passion. They charge $800 for it too. Every time there's traffic on the freeway here there's a sea of rapidly blinking brake lights because those dealers move decent volume, apparently.
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Oct 2, 2023 19:55
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Twerk from Home posted:One of the dealerships chains near me modifies the brake lights on every single car they sell to flash and I loving hate it with a burning passion. They charge $800 for it too. Those modules are literally $9 on Amazon. And under $3 on aliexpress. This kind of markup for things they "can't take off" is typical at scummy dealerships.
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Oct 2, 2023 19:58
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Motronic posted:Doesn't matter. You don't want it. You don't want a car that a meth head in the back bay of the dealership hacked this into. You don't want to do business with a dealership that does thing kind of thing, period. That’s what I thought re: GPS. Guess I’m finding a different dealer/group! My trade is basically scrap, yeah. It’s a 2005 Prius with a dying catalytic converter.
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Oct 2, 2023 19:58
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Ol' Limber Legs posted:That’s what I thought re: GPS. Guess I’m finding a different dealer/group! Not that I'm advocating this, but if that vehicle moves and drives under it's own power and has working power steering / brakes etc it's probably worth a decent amount in a state without emissions testing.
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Oct 2, 2023 20:02
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Ol' Limber Legs posted:My trade is basically scrap, yeah. It’s a 2005 Prius with a dying catalytic converter. If it start, runs and drives it's worth $1k at least in trade in. Probably closer to $1500 where you're at - and this is according to KBB not just guesses and feelings. Also: KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Don't lease a Honda Accord.
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Oct 2, 2023 20:05
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Twerk from Home posted:Not that I'm advocating this, but if that vehicle moves and drives under it's own power and has working power steering / brakes etc it's probably worth a decent amount in a state without emissions testing. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Don't lease a Honda Accord. Point taken. My big “I have no idea how to deal with a dealership” question still stands though… what negotiating points/strategies should I be using to fight whatever BS pricing/financing they were trying to get me to agree to?
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Oct 2, 2023 20:09
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In my experience the best tactic is walking out the door
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Oct 2, 2023 20:33
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> walking out the door When we went to buy a 4 door and traded in my wife's 2 door car they offered us ~12.5 value and the carmax value was ~18. We just got up started the car and as we were driving past the door the sales office the guy runs out and through my cracked windows and says "ok what do you want for it?" I responded "you tell me what I want for it" he said $16 I said $17 and he agreed to that Walking out is very effective A prius catalayic converter isn't a phenominally difficult repair and they're in high demand, especially with less than 200k on the clock; they'll have your Toyota waxed and sold for a profit by the end of next week, it's no '89 buick lesabre
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Oct 2, 2023 20:50
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in the immortal words of dasharz0ne, hit da bricks
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Oct 2, 2023 21:52
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I did walk but they didn’t chase me down. Sounds like I dodged a bullet anyway. Thanks everyone!
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Oct 2, 2023 22:37
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Hadlock posted:
Pretty sure they're super backordered. If you live in a place where you can't just slap any old aftermarket cat on it you're kind of hosed. Also, the factory one is like $1500 or something stupid like that. As mentioned though, that's easily a $4,000 car at minimum if it has less that 200k on the clock and isn't just absolutely beat the gently caress up.
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Oct 3, 2023 00:14
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fknlo posted:Pretty sure they're super backordered. If you live in a place where you can't just slap any old aftermarket cat on it you're kind of hosed. Also, the factory one is like $1500 or something stupid like that.
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Oct 3, 2023 00:31
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Where is this $500 Prius located? I'll pick it up tonight and have it sold for $3,500 within 4 days.
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Oct 3, 2023 00:41
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Nitrox posted:Where is this $500 Prius located? I'll pick it up tonight and have it sold for $3,500 within 4 days. Seriously. And there is no shortage of CARB certified cats for those things. Maybe you can't get them as a retail person, but this is the taxi fleet. They are 100% available right now.
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Oct 3, 2023 00:49
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can you do a cat without welding? that job's upcharge is almost akin to brakes where they upsell 6x what it should really cost, but eh, it's a little bit a harder than that, definitely would be a lot easier with a lift.
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Oct 3, 2023 00:53
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I can't believe you almost paid 9 grand over MSRP for a leased Honda Accord.
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Oct 3, 2023 00:58
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ethanol posted:can you do a cat without welding? Not properly, maybe not even feasibly because I bet they are not available with flanges that would work for clamping.
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Oct 3, 2023 00:58
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KillHour posted:I can't believe you almost paid 9 grand over MSRP for a leased Honda Accord.
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Oct 3, 2023 01:04
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DildenAnders posted:The greed of these fuckers is insane. I mean....this is the dealership system. Unprincipled greedy people hiring unprincipled greedy people to take advantage of people who need transportation. They have well known methods, from talking about payment only, to four squares, to this and that and everything else we've talked about in this thread. You can know all of this and still make a very rational decision that it's better to use a broker or cosco or whatever fixed price buying service because these people you need to deal with are often literally professional conmen.
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Oct 3, 2023 01:09
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KillHour posted:I can't believe you almost paid 9 grand over MSRP for a leased Honda Accord. And almost put $4k down on a “bank recommended” lease down payment!  OP: check out the market place on Leasehacker and pay a broker.
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Oct 3, 2023 01:13
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fknlo posted:Pretty sure they're super backordered. If you live in a place where you can't just slap any old aftermarket cat on it you're kind of hosed. Also, the factory one is like $1500 or something stupid like that. Well, it's got 236,000 and like I said, NEEDS a new catalytic converter. It's California. But yeah, clearly my valuing of the car is skewed. I bought it in 2018 for $1600 + 1000 for a replacement battery. KillHour posted:I can't believe you almost paid 9 grand over MSRP for a leased Honda Accord. Well, not quite almost. But I knew I was out as soon as the GM straight up told me he was looking to make a $4000 profit on the car. A fuckin 2023 even! So yeah, a crazy waste of my Sunday afternoon. I guess the main impetus for my original post was "is this just how it is now?" My wife bought new from the previous ownership of this dealership in 2012 and 2017 and got great deals. Maybe I just need to send her to buy me a car, heh.
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Oct 3, 2023 01:27
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Ol' Limber Legs posted:Well, it's got 236,000 and like I said, NEEDS a new catalytic converter. It's California. But yeah, clearly my valuing of the car is skewed. I bought it in 2018 for $1600 + 1000 for a replacement battery. And it's still worth every last cent you paid for it, even with needing a cat and the additional age and the additional miles. That's how inflation and a terrible supply chain for cars works. I don't want you to misunderstand what I told you earlier: the $1k I was talking about is MINIMUM trade in value, which is always terrible. People are now talking about what it's actually worth retail.
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Oct 3, 2023 01:30
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KillHour posted:I can't believe you almost paid 9 grand over MSRP for a leased Honda Accord. Still better than a $40k Altima
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Oct 3, 2023 01:42
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