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illusions and shapeshifters are posers and those that provide tribal support should be mocked.
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Oct 1, 2023 10:18
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https://archidekt.com/decks/4374733/calvary_charge I'm down to the last 13 cards that I need to cut, down from originally 131, I'd like some different perspectives on where to make those final cuts to have this deck be at 100. I'm pretty stumped, but that could also be because it's late. I don't want to add anything else and I just want to get this deck off the ground to try and get a feel for how it can play, I know I need a Coat of Arms, and other expensive stuff that'll eventually come later in streamlining it.
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Oct 2, 2023 08:00
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There's a lot of things that look thrown in that list because You Like Them rather than because they're good in the list (eg Celestial Mantle, Promise of Tomorrow, Capsize, Crib Swap, Temporal Extortion) and that's fine if you know that's why they're going in but don't really do much to make your deck better. Promise of Tomorrow is especially egregious as it's a nombo with your commander and opens you up to massive blowouts. You also don't NEED anything like Coat of Arms - sure it'd be a nice card to have on the field, but it doesn't make or break the deck. MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 12:05
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MrL_JaKiri posted:There's a lot of things that look thrown in that list because You Like Them rather than because they're good in the list (eg Celestial Mantle, Promise of Tomorrow, Capsize, Crib Swap, Temporal Extortion) and that's fine if you know that's why they're going in but don't really do much to make your deck better. Promise of Tomorrow is especially egregious as it's a nombo with your commander and opens you up to massive blowouts. Coat of Arms is also a pain in the rear end to track on paper.
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Oct 2, 2023 14:16
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MrL_JaKiri posted:There's a lot of things that look thrown in that list because You Like Them rather than because they're good in the list (eg Celestial Mantle, Promise of Tomorrow, Capsize, Crib Swap, Temporal Extortion) and that's fine if you know that's why they're going in but don't really do much to make your deck better. Promise of Tomorrow is especially egregious as it's a nombo with your commander and opens you up to massive blowouts. I reasoned for Promise of Tomorrow to myself in the case that Sidar either gets removed so many times making him too expensive to recast, or I needed to board wipe and just pull everything I have back into the field by my end step. Celestial Mantle because it's fun to gain a bunch of life? And would pair off nicely with any of the knights that have Menace, or if Rogue Class is out any knight that has Menace, Horsemanship, Flying, or Shadow. Crib Swap because someone here mentioned it combos with Hakkon same with nameless inversion to repeatedly cast it for as much mana I have available. Capsize is recurring bounce. Temporal Extortion is a cheap way to get a second turn and make everyone else argue who will lose half their life to deny me a second turn, or make someone burn through a counterspell. I dunno it sounded fun. Jiro fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 17:33
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Living Death and Patriarch's Bidding work really well in the knights deck. Dont forget about one of the best commons in the game: security bypass
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Oct 2, 2023 17:37
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Spanish Manlove posted:Living Death and Patriarch's Bidding work really well in the knights deck. Dont forget about one of the best commons in the game: security bypass I like Patriarch's Bidding and Haunting Voyage for Tribal decks. Jiro posted:I reasoned for Promise of Tomorrow to myself in the case that Sidar either gets removed so many times making him too expensive to recast, or I needed to board wipe and just pull everything I have back into the field by my end step. There should be either a mana rock or a land that you sacrifice to put your Commander in your hand from the Command Zone. That might be better to run if you're worried about Sidar dying too many times.
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Oct 2, 2023 17:46
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It's a land Command Beacon. Though it has gotten a bit expensive recently.
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Oct 2, 2023 17:57
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what are some funny big sorceries or instants to copy in U/B/R? i am idly knocking around a budget anhelo token/magecraft deck using some of the chaos 40k precon and it's a pretty straightforward gameplan (cast more instants/sorceries, make more tokens, play more magecraft bodies), but i want fun or interesting payoffs for copying that also won't keep people in my playgroup from wanting to never play with me again (i'm building a chaos deck for that). my ideal cards are: big and impactful; don't require shuffling or significant overhead to track or resolve; don't tie up the game too long on my end (i.e. five million extra turns is a kind of funny, but not the funny i want); move me at least theoretically closer to victory; and benefit from being copied. cards like fevered suspicion and cruel entertainment and goblin game are fun to me by this metric.
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Oct 2, 2023 18:21
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So to go into detail about why I picked out what I picked out:Jiro posted:I reasoned for Promise of Tomorrow to myself in the case that Sidar either gets removed so many times making him too expensive to recast, or I needed to board wipe and just pull everything I have back into the field by my end step. There's better reanimation spells that doesn't leave you vulnerable to someone exiling the enchantment. As mentioned, Patriar's Bidding and Living Death are a ton better. Jiro posted:Celestial Mantle because it's fun to gain a bunch of life? And would pair off nicely with any of the knights that have Menace, or if Rogue Class is out any knight that has Menace, Horsemanship, Flying, or Shadow. The trouble with Celestial Mantle is that it's a six mana card that doesn't do anything immediately, might not do anything anyway if you're not ahead on board, doesn't help you win (just not lose), is a magnet for removal and instantly makes you the target. I've owned a copy for years and had it in a lot of list pre-cuts, but keeps on getting cut for better things that don't have those problems. Jiro posted:Crib Swap because someone here mentioned it combos with Hakkon same with nameless inversion to repeatedly cast it for as much mana I have available. I missed seeing Haakon when skimming the deck. It's cute. I'd still consider either Generous Gift or the WoE Generous Gift because you have problems dealing with non-creature permanents (same for Nameless Inversion and to some extent Return to Dust, target any permanent is super strong) Jiro posted:Capsize is recurring bounce. The trouble is that Esper decks do not want to be paying 6 to bounce a single permanent. Capsize is a great card in a lot of situations (it's an absolute all-star in my pauper cube) but there's a reason that Cyclonic Rift is in half a million decks on EDHREC and Capsize is in 20,000. Picture it as spending 3 to draw a mediocre card - that's not a good rate. Jiro posted:Temporal Extortion is a cheap way to get a second turn and make everyone else argue who will lose half their life to deny me a second turn, or make someone burn through a counterspell. I dunno it sounded fun. I have two issues with it. The first is that your mana base will not reliably produce BBBB. The second is that cards that give opponents a choice are always worse than they look. This 100% does not mean you shouldn't include it as I mentioned above. "I think it's a fun card" is a reason to include. To pick out other cards: Dissipate is a weak counterspell, consider Counterspell or Arcane Denial instead (your deck wants to be playing creatures and attacking with them, holding up 3 mana rather than 2 to protect your board is potentially a massive tempo hit). Return from Extinction should probably be one of the mass reanimation spells mentioned, paying 2 mana at sorcery speed to return to hand isn't good rate compared to 5 mana to get everything back to battlefield. Kindred Discovery is absolutely nuts and you should try to fit it in if you can. Consider Reflections of Littjara. Pick up Shock Lands but only next year after their price craters. As for cuts rather than just talking about swaps, I'd focus my efforts on your Artifacts and Enchantments. Your deck wants to be swinging asap to get the most value from the commander and all the potential "on attack" card advantage stuff, so I would cut: Cloud Key Dowsing Dagger (I don't think the equipment do much for you - you don't get value for casting them and don't have any cheap alternative equips in the deck) Quietus Spike Sigiled Sword Stoneforge Masterwork Thaumatic Compass (if you're worried about land drops I'd recommend Land Tax, Wayfarer's Bauble or just playing more land - you don't want turns 2 and 3 to be land drop compass, land drop compass activation pass.) Urza's Incubator (it costs a lot of $ and I think you can get more bang for your buck elsewhere, plus your deck won't get THAT much out of it compared to, say, Angels) Celestial Mantle Invasion of New Capenna Paladin Class (It's a big mana investment to make it useful) Promise of Tomorrow Rogue Class (As with paladin class, and if you're worried about stuff dying on attacks, consider Dolmen Gate) Profane Tutor (Suspend cards always play worse than they feel like they should unless you have value for casting from exile) Re: getting the commander back if it's too expensive, Command Beacon, Netherborn Altar and Campfire can all get your commander from the CZ to your hand, but given that it has Eminence I wouldn't worry too much about it being hypertargeted. Play it for a bit and see. MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Oct 2, 2023 |
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Oct 2, 2023 18:24
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Valentin posted:what are some funny big sorceries or instants to copy in U/B/R? i am idly knocking around a budget anhelo token/magecraft deck using some of the chaos 40k precon and it's a pretty straightforward gameplan (cast more instants/sorceries, make more tokens, play more magecraft bodies), but i want fun or interesting payoffs for copying that also won't keep people in my playgroup from wanting to never play with me again (i'm building a chaos deck for that). my ideal cards are: big and impactful; don't require shuffling or significant overhead to track or resolve; don't tie up the game too long on my end (i.e. five million extra turns is a kind of funny, but not the funny i want); move me at least theoretically closer to victory; and benefit from being copied. cards like fevered suspicion and cruel entertainment and goblin game are fun to me by this metric. Funny big sorceries or instants you say? MrL_JaKiri posted:Izzet is the best colours for this with cards like Thousand Year Storm, Storm-Kiln Artist, et al. Look up Izzet Spellslinger Theme on EDHRec, there's a ton of good commanders for it (I use Neera personally and it's great fun) This (far from optimal) Neera list has many! Aminatou's Augury is probably the GOAT
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Oct 2, 2023 18:26
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Valentin posted:what are some funny big sorceries or instants to copy in U/B/R? i am idly knocking around a budget anhelo token/magecraft deck using some of the chaos 40k precon and it's a pretty straightforward gameplan (cast more instants/sorceries, make more tokens, play more magecraft bodies), but i want fun or interesting payoffs for copying that also won't keep people in my playgroup from wanting to never play with me again (i'm building a chaos deck for that). my ideal cards are: big and impactful; don't require shuffling or significant overhead to track or resolve; don't tie up the game too long on my end (i.e. five million extra turns is a kind of funny, but not the funny i want); move me at least theoretically closer to victory; and benefit from being copied. cards like fevered suspicion and cruel entertainment and goblin game are fun to me by this metric. Breach the Multiverse Blatant Thievery Aminatou's Augury Army of the Damned Brass's Bounty Call Forth the Tempest Clone Legion Cruel Ultimatum And so on, and so on, and so on https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid...E5&unique=cards
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Oct 2, 2023 18:30
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Expropriate gives them a choice on how much to hate you.
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Oct 2, 2023 18:32
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Aphrodite posted:Expropriate gives them a choice on how much to hate you. Between a huge amount and a huge amount?
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Oct 2, 2023 18:36
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For the Chaos precon Mascot Exhibition and Goblin Wizardy are both good too. Magnus is an awesome spellslinger that only gets better with creature tokens on the board.
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Oct 2, 2023 18:40
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For the Chaos precon Mascot Exhibition and Goblin Wizardy are both good too. Magnus is an awesome spellslinger that only gets better with creature tokens on the board. Goblin Game, Thieves' Auction E: Sorry, I meant for a "Chaos" deck, not the Chaos precon.
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Oct 2, 2023 18:44
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:For the Chaos precon Mascot Exhibition and Goblin Wizardy are both good too. Magnus is an awesome spellslinger that only gets better with creature tokens on the board. I want to make a Magnus deck so badly but then decided on making a nekuzar deck after that mark Riddick secret lair
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Oct 2, 2023 19:00
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Spanish Manlove posted:I want to make a Magnus deck so badly but then decided on making a nekuzar deck after that mark Riddick secret lair So you just woke up and chose violence.
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Oct 2, 2023 19:54
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Batterypowered7 posted:So you just woke up and chose violence. everyone in my area either plays ultraviolence or a precon
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Oct 2, 2023 20:18
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Jiro posted:https://archidekt.com/decks/4374733/calvary_charge Try to keep in mind "What is the deck doing? What does it want to do?" For example, I see no reason to play Rogue Class in this deck. Yeah, eventually you can play your opponent's cards, but...why do you want to? What about your Commander and the deck wants to do that? The only real upside of this card is the Menace feature, and you have to sink 5 mana into it to make that part happen. Personally, I only play Rogue Class in my Tasha deck, because Tasha literally wants me to play my opponents' cards, and rewards me for doing so. I also agree with the above re: Capsize and Celestial Mantle. Celestial Mantle is fun, but not necessary in a deck like this. Capsize is great in some 1v1 formats, but not so much in Commander. And also agree with cutting Promise of Tomorrow. 90% of the time, this is going to be hurting you, not helping you. You want critters in your yard. And when it comes to board protection spells, you've already got Unbreakable Formation. I'll also admit I'm not clear on why you're running Nameless Inversion. How many cards are you running that care about casting Knight spells specifically, rather than caring about Knight creatures?
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Oct 2, 2023 21:12
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TotalHell posted:Try to keep in mind "What is the deck doing? What does it want to do?" They explained it's for Haakon shenanigans.
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Oct 2, 2023 21:35
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Batterypowered7 posted:They explained it's for Haakon shenanigans. Ahhh I missed that. Still not sure id go for that personally, but at least I see where it’s coming from.
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Oct 2, 2023 21:45
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Jiro posted:https://archidekt.com/decks/4374733/calvary_charge Honestly, there are a lot of knights not on your list that seem like good value engines for a middle level beat down deck. Adeline Aryel Triumphant Adventurer Ayara’s Oathsworn Battle Angels of Tyr Basri’s Lieutenant The U/B/W Cavaliers Dauntless Bodyguard Elenda and Azor Hero of Bladehold Midnight Reaper Nadaar Silverwing Squadron
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Oct 2, 2023 23:12
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TotalHell posted:Try to keep in mind "What is the deck doing? What does it want to do?" Rogue Class I only care about it's Level 2 of giving everything I have Menace for evasion. It's just one more thing to give my Creatures if I can't give them Horsemanship, or Flying etc etc. I don't care about using other opponents creatures, it's a nice thing to just exile them, but 9/10 times I'm not going to upgrade the Enchantment again to spend mana on it again other than to get it to level 2 for that Menace buff. Nameless Inversion works as a mini combo with Hakkon just like Crib Swap does and both fall under the Urza Incubator of it being cheaper since it's a tribal shapeshifter spell and it's changing so it would essentially be one mana to cast to either outright kill something even if it's indestructible or just bleep it out or multiple things out with Crib Swap.
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Oct 3, 2023 02:05
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Between a huge amount and a huge amount? yeah, expropriate usually ends the game quickly in your favor if your deck actually does things (as it should), it's really more of an invitation for other players to hate one another by getting someone to defect and give you additional "time" votes to preserve their poo poo (even if that is almost always wrong/futile ) e: or vice-versa since it is context dependent, but they need to be pretty light on resources/board-state for you to be sure those extra turns are sub-par explores rather than incipient doom regardless, expropriate is extremely fun to resolve and definitely the power level you want if you're going to be throwing out spells that cost that much mana LGD fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 03:13
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Jiro posted:Rogue Class I only care about it's Level 2 of giving everything I have Menace for evasion. It's just one more thing to give my Creatures if I can't give them Horsemanship, or Flying etc etc. I don't care about using other opponents creatures, it's a nice thing to just exile them, but 9/10 times I'm not going to upgrade the Enchantment again to spend mana on it again other than to get it to level 2 for that Menace buff. I don’t think Rogue Class is worth it. The baseline for granting your team menace is 3 mana (going off of Goblin War Drums). Heck, Angrath is four mana for that effect and he’s a planeswalker with another ability he can use! You’re looking at five mana (likely over two turns) for basically just this effect. There’s a lot of other stuff this deck wants to be doing with its mana, and you have other ways of granting evasion.
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Oct 3, 2023 03:23
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You know what's a good way to get evasion in a mill deck for almost no mana investment? Wonder
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Oct 3, 2023 03:36
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Valentin posted:what are some funny big sorceries or instants to copy in U/B/R? i am idly knocking around a budget anhelo token/magecraft deck using some of the chaos 40k precon and it's a pretty straightforward gameplan (cast more instants/sorceries, make more tokens, play more magecraft bodies), but i want fun or interesting payoffs for copying that also won't keep people in my playgroup from wanting to never play with me again (i'm building a chaos deck for that). my ideal cards are: big and impactful; don't require shuffling or significant overhead to track or resolve; don't tie up the game too long on my end (i.e. five million extra turns is a kind of funny, but not the funny i want); move me at least theoretically closer to victory; and benefit from being copied. cards like fevered suspicion and cruel entertainment and goblin game are fun to me by this metric. I saw a guy go off, cast Doomsday, Necropotence, and then cast all the rest of his library to play the blue Epic spell, and then copy it a few times, so that every upkeep he gets to steal like 5 permanents out of people's libraries. I tried to kill him by blowing up his Necropotence, but on his upkeep he grabbed Abundance out of my library and got to skip his draw. He had a big pile of stolen creatures until someone cast a Dimensional Breach
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Oct 3, 2023 04:01
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TotalHell posted:Heck, Angrath is four mana for that effect and he’s a planeswalker with another ability he can use! unfortunately every angrath is rakdos so they're unplayable in esper knights - honestly it'd probably be better to throw something like odric lunarch marshal in even if he isn't a knight since that'd also give other stuff besides menace, too
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Oct 3, 2023 04:48
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There's always Cover of Darkness for 2 mana. Gives all your duders Fear.
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Oct 3, 2023 04:51
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AlternateNu posted:Honestly, there are a lot of knights not on your list that seem like good value engines for a middle level beat down deck. Adeline - I ultimately cut her because she made more humans not Knights Aryel Knight of Windgrace - I cut her just because she's too expensive even with her abilities Triumphant Adventurer - cut him because venturing into the dungeon was going to be another thing to manage Ayara’s Oathsworn - Aftermath is a total blind spot for me and I largely ignored it for the most part, this is a cool card maybe I'll add it in later Battle Angels of Tyr - that's a future add-in considering it's cost Basri’s Lieutenant - I have a few of these, I may come back around to adding in especially since it has protection from multicolored The U/B/W Cavaliers - I probably would eventually add one of them, their cost is what made me not want to put them in Dauntless Bodyguard - that's one I kept looking at and being on the fence about Elenda and Azor - too expensive and is based around a different theme to potentially build around card draw and life loss and lifegain Hero of Bladehold - same as Adeline great card but makes soldiers not knights Midnight Reaper - cut him since I didn't want to lose life to my creatures dying. Nadaar - same venturing into the dungeon mechanic to pay attention to Silverwing Squadron - cut due to casting cost and dependence on having a big board Moonshaker can do more Batterypowered7 posted:There's always Cover of Darkness for 2 mana. Gives all your duders Fear. gently caress I'd love a Cover of Darkness, for this deck and my horror tribal deck. Can't really afford to plunk down 60 bucks USD just for that. Maybe a proxy to see how well it gels. Mix. posted:unfortunately every angrath is rakdos so they're unplayable in esper knights - honestly it'd probably be better to throw something like odric lunarch marshal in even if he isn't a knight since that'd also give other stuff besides menace, too Angrath is specifically used in my Prosper deck just to exist and give my stuff Menace while I go and Scrooge McDuck my way to a win. Odric is definitely a good idea to look into. Jiro fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 05:15
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Paid $30 for a Cover of Darkness three years ago. Seems like it was a good decision.
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Oct 3, 2023 05:32
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Jiro posted:Rogue Class I only care about it's Level 2 of giving everything I have Menace for evasion. It's just one more thing to give my Creatures if I can't give them Horsemanship, or Flying etc etc. I don't care about using other opponents creatures, it's a nice thing to just exile them, but 9/10 times I'm not going to upgrade the Enchantment again to spend mana on it again other than to get it to level 2 for that Menace buff. You need to cut cards and ones that have marginal utility need to be the first to go (Kill your darlings) MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 13:36
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Got an email from Inked Gaming about my year anniversary of when I bought my playmat, and I started my design for the playmate immediately after I tried commander at a bar w a friends decks and got hooked. So I've been playing this wonderful, terrible game for a little over a year now! I avoided the game for so long because I know I like cards games but hate the monetization they almost always come with. If I could do it all over again I'd probably have less bulk from when I started playing and several hundred dollars more in bank account (false, would've spent it on entertainment elsewhere). But I am glad I found out fairly quickly what products are worth buying sealed (almost none ever outside limited events) and joined at a time when non-wotc cards flowed more freely than before. I joined at the height of WotCs bullshit phase, so surely it's all downhill away from the BS from here on out. Right?
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Oct 3, 2023 17:01
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Mix. posted:unfortunately every angrath is rakdos so they're unplayable in esper knights - honestly it'd probably be better to throw something like odric lunarch marshal in even if he isn't a knight since that'd also give other stuff besides menace, too Oh yeah, I know, I had just been looking at cards that grant menace to see what the standard rate was. Obviously can't run Goblin War Drums or Angrath in the Esper deck. But the broader point was just that Rogue Class feels like too much of a mana investment if all you want from it is menace.
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Oct 3, 2023 17:54
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There's always Triarch Stalker or Vela the Night Clad for Intimidate. On the upside Vela goes nicely with any aristocrat effects like Ser Konrad. Sun Quan has dropped in price too. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 19:01
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:There's always Triarch Stalker or Vela the Night Clad for Intimidate. On the upside Vela goes nicely with any aristocrat effects like Ser Konrad I would hate to invest 5+ mana on the most fragile permanent type just to give my creatures menace.
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Oct 3, 2023 19:02
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There's this fancy expensive card that makes one of your dudes unblockable and puts more stuff in the graveyard
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Oct 3, 2023 20:05
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There's also Glaring Spotlight, not bad considering Esper has good artifact recursion.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:19
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I always preferred Arcane Lighthouse. Land. Taps for colorless, pay one tap it opponents' creatures lose hexproof AND shroud and cannot have hexproof or shroud. It's a card I feel like should go into every deck. Jiro fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 21:00
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