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Robviously posted:Israel might be the prime example but there're plenty of other countries that replace their whole government on a dime. We end up stuck with the same dipshits here, for better or worse. For example remember Liz Truss?
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Oct 4, 2023 00:27
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CapnAndy posted:You're not gonna find 1:1 comparisons because nobody else has a legislature like this, but parliamentary leaders getting forced out with no-confidence votes is hardly uncommon. It happens in Canada fairly often. Usually a failed vote to pass a key motion like a budget or signature policy plan is what triggers it because it's a massive failure on the part of a designated PM or Premier if something that important can't pass under there watch. This is different because what triggered this vote is literally them managing to pass a key continuing resolution, which is literally McCarthy hiking up his socks and actually doing what is supposed to be his job as speaker in getting their policy bill over the line, but you know Matt Gaetz and MAGA so out he goes.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:27
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The difference being that your typical no-confidence vote under a parliamentary system would trigger an election to determine a new mandate. Here you just have a bunch of intransigent jackasses and no one can do anything about them until the scheduled election.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:29
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CapnAndy posted:You're not gonna find 1:1 comparisons because nobody else has a legislature like this, but parliamentary leaders getting forced out with no-confidence votes is hardly uncommon. Yeah, coalitions failing is not uncommon. What’s uncommon and uniquely American is that all of these people get to remain in Congress until the natural end of their terms after causing such a shitshow
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Oct 4, 2023 00:29
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I AM GRANDO posted:Has this happened in any other countries in the last 25 years? Like not even regional powers or whatever, but like any loving countries with legislatures in this century? This seems like a profound systems failure. Your fellow neighbors to the north just had our Speaker of the House resign after getting the entire government to provide a standing ovation to an oops, actual Nazi during Zelensky's visit to our Parliament. Same title name, different position, but was definitely an embarrassment that will have repercussions when we have our next election and will mar the guy's career forever.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:30
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CapnAndy posted:You're not gonna find 1:1 comparisons because nobody else has a legislature like this, but parliamentary leaders getting forced out with no-confidence votes is hardly uncommon. Yes, but of course those Parliaments usually have the fail case of holding another election. The absence of such a pressure release valve is what gives the chaos caucus so much power.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:30
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I AM GRANDO posted:Has this happened in any other countries in the last 25 years? Like not even regional powers or whatever, but like any loving countries with legislatures in this century? This seems like a profound systems failure. The U.K. had 4 Prime Ministers in 2 years just recently.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:32
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CapnAndy posted:You're not gonna find 1:1 comparisons because nobody else has a legislature like this, but parliamentary leaders getting forced out with no-confidence votes is hardly uncommon. Yeah, I guess I wasn’t thinking of parliamentary systems cycling through prime ministers/governments because those systems are built to allow those kinds of changes. I guess I don’t actually know what I’m asking for. Maybe a case of a legislature putting itself into a possibly un-fixable null state where it can’t legislate.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:34
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Kale posted:Years and years of a total lack of accountability and "win" at all costs partisan hackery mentality brought the GOP to this point And there is nothing more ironic than hearing Newt Gingrich whine about it, because he more than anyone else started that loving ball of rage and dishonesty rolling
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Oct 4, 2023 00:36
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I've actually been missing how much fun the CSPAN TVIV thread was for his election, and I'm looking forward to it all over again. 
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Oct 4, 2023 00:37
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Kale posted:It happens in Canada fairly often. Usually a failed vote to pass a key motion like a budget or signature policy plan is what triggers it because it's a massive failure on the part of a designated PM or Premier if something that important can't pass under there watch. This is different because what triggered this vote is literally them managing to pass a key continuing resolution, which is literally McCarthy hiking up his socks and actually doing what is supposed to be his job as speaker in getting their policy bill over the line, but you know Matt Gaetz and MAGA so out he goes. And in every previous House session, those 8 people would have just gone on Fox News (or Ye Olde Fasciste Paper) and bitched and moaned, but because McCarthy had to sell his soul to get into the speakership, he agreed to allow a single person to trigger a vote to remove rather than the typical majority of the majority caucus
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Oct 4, 2023 00:40
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ordinarily this would never happen in the US this is pretty much where the Hastert Rule leads you eventually though.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:43
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CapnAndy posted:So was all that laughing and “come on and try it then” poo poo just a bluff, or is he a colossal moron? He probably meant "try it" more in the https://i.imgur.com/AZh8ivH.mp4 sense...
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Oct 4, 2023 00:44
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predicto posted:And there is nothing more ironic than hearing Newt Gingrich whine about it, because he more than anyone else started that loving ball of rage and dishonesty rolling The OG partisan hack yeah. Just hacking it up in the 90s even before the internet and even really Fox News as we know it today.
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Oct 4, 2023 00:59
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Kevin McCarthy is doing his standup act in front of the press right now
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Oct 4, 2023 01:00
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The Glumslinger posted:Kevin McCarthy is doing his standup act in front of the press right now It was beautiful
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Oct 4, 2023 01:06
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McCarthy is big mad at basically everyone now. https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1709339066410406057 https://twitter.com/FarnoushAmiri/status/1709357805289840803 Matt Gaetz: quote:You all know Matt Gaetz. You know it was personal. It had nothing to do about spending. It had nothing to do -- everything he accused somebody of, he was doing. It was all about his ethics case. The other Republicans who voted against him: quote:They are not conservatives. Nancy Pelosi: quote:I told Pelosi before this Congress that GOP rebels were demanding restoration of the one-member motion to vacate rule. Pelosi responded: “Just give it to them. I’ll back you up," and she said that she had given the same pledge to Boehner and Ryan before. God: quote:I might have been given a bad break, but I’m still the luckiest man alive. We got a lot of big challenges I don't want this to be an angry meeting. I firmly trust in God. This was his plan. Himself: quote:I became Speaker, when I did it, I did it for the good of the conference. The Dems came to me to make a deal. I wasn't going to make a deal. The Democrats: quote:I'm not going to sell my soul to Democrats. I'll still work to get you elected -- maybe not all of you because I'm a free agent. Matt Gaetz again: quote:I'd love to have him out of the conference. He shouldn't be in the GOP Party. His family, who were rooting for his downfall: quote:I think the result of this is, the result is that I am going to go home for the week and spend time with my family. That is what they want. That is probably the one thing they are happy about hearing today. The theoretical concept of whoever will succeed him. quote:Anyone who ascends to Speaker and doesn’t renegotiate the rules package can’t be surprised when they’re asked to dig a hole in the desert and get shot in the head. The Democrats again and... metal detectors? https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/1709358159326777415 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Oct 4, 2023 |
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Oct 4, 2023 01:07
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The new acting Speaker is kicking Nancy Pelosi out of her second office while she is out of town as revenge too. They are taking all of her things while she's out of town. Everyone and everything is kind of melting down in pettiness right now. https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1709357594416943614 https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1709360415199658023 McCarthy is giving one tiny (sort of) apology in his speech where he is laying out how mad he is at everyone. He loves praying and God and wasn't mocking the faith of Tim Burchett when he told them that praying was stalling and cowardly. https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1709357850462494917
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Oct 4, 2023 01:15
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Stfu Benji https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1709357287079354541 Bush league. Probably not the time to make more enemies, GOP caucus
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Oct 4, 2023 01:16
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Euphoriaphone posted:what the gently caress? idk if you have more specific questions I can answer them. I've developed a visceral dislike of the Full-Name branding a lot of pols shoot for because it's seems like a higher than normal proportion of them are horrific, see - ACB, MTG. But after the post I remembered it's been around a while (RBG) and there's one I actually like (AOC). The other part is that I used to vote every 2 years like clockwork in Pinellas County and it left a bad taste in my mouth that I always saw her at whatever polling station I was at, wearing purposely form-revealing clothes and advertise TRUMP REPUBLICAN to everyone that would look. I never wanted to see a candidate reach the House less in my life. If memory serves she BARELY lost to Crist (Crist!) the first time and I knew it was just a matter of time at that point.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:20
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I AM GRANDO posted:Yeah, I guess I wasn’t thinking of parliamentary systems cycling through prime ministers/governments because those systems are built to allow those kinds of changes. I guess I don’t actually know what I’m asking for. Maybe a case of a legislature putting itself into a possibly un-fixable null state where it can’t legislate. It's still parliamentary, but Belgium didn't have a federal government for 589 days back in 2010-11. People have already mentioned Brexit, that was kind of close where a legislature couldn't pass the thing it was nominally elected to do for a while.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:24
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The new acting Speaker is kicking Nancy Pelosi out of her second office while she is out of town as revenge too. They are taking all of her things while she's out of town. Sounds about right, it's the only thing the GOP has proven consistently good at in my lifetime. Literally just politics of grievance. Also I honestly somehow missed that Feinstein had died. I had heard she was going to run again too even, but my goodness was the writing on the wall and can't say I'm surprised to hear she had died.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:28
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Charliegrs posted:So I guess that means that Congress is essentially going to be doing nothing (well more than usual) until next Tuesday? Presumably there's going to be a whole lot of backchannel talking. Any Republican with more ambition than sense that actually wants to be Speaker will be trying to cobble together a coalition with the far right wing. The Democrats will be trying to flip enough Republicans for a power sharing deal. It's very unlikely anyone will bite soon, but you start negotiating now to find people for the "government shutdown stretches on while the House remains Speaker-less" that's likely coming.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:30
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zoux posted:Stfu Benji I don't think most Democrats treat Republicans with nearly the contempt they deserve, so if R's being petty helps them get on board with what's actually going on that's fine with me
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Oct 4, 2023 01:34
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It’s great that the republican talking point about this is “irresponsible democrats refused to save McCarthy from himself by voting for him.” Big “you’re supposed to take the penny out of my hand before I stick it in the socket” energy, just openly saying that democrats are supposed to destroy themselves to keep a status quo the other side is trying hard to utterly explode.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:38
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Randalor posted:So on the non-zero percent chance Jeffries actually gets elected Speaker, csn he immediately remove the rule saying that anyone can oust the Speaker, or is that rule in place for the term? The rule isn't that anyone can call a vote, it's that anyone in the Speaker's Party can do it. Democrats aren't going to do anything to gently caress up the good thing if they somehow manage to win the Speakership with a minority caucus though. It's a moot point though, since any scenario where there's a power sharing agreement or Democratic control is by necessity going to involve changing the rules. Neither the Democrats nor which ever Republicans are involved will trust the other side to hold to any deals not written into the rules. With McCarthy out of the running, the best realistic option for the Democrats is probably getting behind a minor monster in exchange for agreements to certain bills being brought to the floor and maybe an end to the current Impeachment Circus. zoux posted:Stfu Benji Nah, it's actually an at least reasonable strategy to ensure that Democrats are big mad. If they can make Democrats stupid furious, they head off potential moderate Republicans making power sharing deals. I mean, it's still dumb and petty because it's neither going to make the Democrats blind with rage, nor make them less likely to find a lesser shitheel to deal with. However it's definitely the least stupid chess move they've made since the beginning of this session.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:38
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Getting an office as far away as possible from Republicans would seem to be in the personal best interest of Pelosi and indeed every American.
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Oct 4, 2023 01:48
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Someone should post that guys tweet about taking poo poo out of Pelosi's office but make the picture that guy from January 6th
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Oct 4, 2023 02:04
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I AM GRANDO posted:It’s great that the republican talking point about this is “irresponsible democrats refused to save McCarthy from himself by voting for him.” Big “you’re supposed to take the penny out of my hand before I stick it in the socket” energy, just openly saying that democrats are supposed to destroy themselves to keep a status quo the other side is trying hard to utterly explode. Remember that some, but not all of the crazies are doing an act and mostly dont expect to be the dog catching the car. They count on dems voting to save poo poo.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:05
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Wait, so there is an Acting Speaker in the interim, this McHenry guy? Why was he picked? What authority does he have? Can he bring another shutdown prevention bill? E: to answer my own question, here's the Reuters explainer: IS THERE AN ACTING SPEAKER? Immediately following Tuesday's 216-210 ouster vote, Republican Representative Patrick McHenry, a McCarthy ally, was appointed acting speaker pro tempore. He can serve for only a very limited time -- up to three legislative days in this case. The acting speaker pro tempore's duties are vague, according to a guide to the chamber's rules and procedures: That person "may exercise such authorities of the office of speaker as may be necessary and appropriate pending the election of a speaker or speaker pro tempore." While the speaker sets the overall legislative agenda in the House, it is the House majority leader who schedules specific bills to debated and voted upon in the chamber. Republican Representative Kelly Armstrong told reporters that McHenry's main task will be to "get us a new speaker." Anything further, he said, would spark a move to oust McHenry. E: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-are-next-steps-us-house-searches-new-speaker-2023-10-03/ projecthalaxy fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Oct 4, 2023 |
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Oct 4, 2023 02:06
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I AM GRANDO posted:It’s great that the republican talking point about this is “irresponsible democrats refused to save McCarthy from himself by voting for him.” Big “you’re supposed to take the penny out of my hand before I stick it in the socket” energy, just openly saying that democrats are supposed to destroy themselves to keep a status quo the other side is trying hard to utterly explode. I'm curious to see if this an effective talking point in 48 hours. There will always be the true believers, but that statement is beyond farce.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:13
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projecthalaxy posted:Wait, so there is an Acting Speaker in the interim, this McHenry guy? Why was he picked? What authority does he have? Can he bring another shutdown prevention bill? Apparently it was part of the rules package that was voted in when Mcarthy became speaker. He submitted a secret list of names to succeed him in case he was ousted or just incapacitated. McHenry is a Mcarthy ally. The short version is that McHenry is the new speaker until another speaker is elected or until he is also vacated. Unlike the last time, he can actually conduct House business other than electing a new speaker (which is why he was able to kick Pelosi out of her office.) Honestly, it wouldn’t be the stupidest move for Gaetz et all to just let McHenry be speaker for 45 days to cut a CR to fund the government some more, and then go full on clown shoes goblin mode.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:17
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Apparently it was part of the rules package that was voted in when Mcarthy became speaker. He submitted a secret list of names to succeed him in case he was ousted or just incapacitated. McHenry is a Mcarthy ally. He automatically loses his power and the House goes back to having no Speaker after 3 legislative days. That's why they are going into recess for a week and then trying to figure out who should be Speaker before his time expires.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:22
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:McCarthy is big mad at basically everyone now.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:22
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Mccarthy is a dumbass. Why would pelosi back him up lol Like hes actually an idiot, if thats true. Which maybe its not true because hes a liar
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Oct 4, 2023 02:26
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smug n stuff posted:Gaetz has said he’d be fine with Scalise, right? Is there any reason to think he won’t just get voted in? no balls
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Oct 4, 2023 02:26
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projecthalaxy posted:Wait, so there is an Acting Speaker in the interim, this McHenry guy? Why was he picked? What authority does he have? Can he bring another shutdown prevention bill? The House rules require that when someone takes the office of Speaker, they have to submit a secret list of members that can temporarily fill in as Acting Speaker if the office becomes vacant. Apparently, the first name on McCarthy's list was McHenry. The powers of a designated Acting Speaker are limited, though somewhat vaguely so. The designated Acting Speaker is supposed to be an extremely temporary position, meant mainly to facilitate the election of the next Speaker. The vagueness is also likely intentional, since the rule was added during the early years of the War on Terror when pretty much every arm of government was suddenly worrying about "what happens if terrorists take out half the government?". There's also the issue that McHenry, being McCarthy's handpicked choice for Acting Speaker, is unlikely to get along well with the people who ousted McCarthy. He's a career Republican who got his start in politics running NotHillary.com for Karl Rove in 2000, followed by spending a few months as a special assistant to McConnell's wife. He's got deep ties to the old GOP leadership and isn't much of a Trump loyalist, so it's unlikely that the Freedom Caucus folks will get along with him.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:28
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Scags McDouglas posted:idk if you have more specific questions I can answer them. I've developed a visceral dislike of the Full-Name branding a lot of pols shoot for because it's seems like a higher than normal proportion of them are horrific, see - ACB, MTG. But after the post I remembered it's been around a while (RBG) and there's one I actually like (AOC). AOC is only two names, fwiw, with her last name being hyphenated.
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Oct 4, 2023 02:41
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CPColin posted:AOC is only two names, fwiw, with her last name being hyphenated. Yeah I'll take the loss on the whole derail and I'm sorry for even starting it. Every time I see congressional messages from Anna Paulina Luna - for instance the latest that was essentially "Exonerate Trump, election stolen, impeach Joe, HUNTER BIDEN" it gives me awful flashbacks to seeing her in person and observing her entire political brand being "no critical thought".
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Oct 4, 2023 02:55
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So as funny as this all is what are the chances of Ukraine getting more aid from us when/if the House gets back up and running?
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