DR FRASIER KRANG posted:

this is the car version of "an armed society is a polite society" lmao

mystes posted:

responding to PFC

Grassy Knowles posted:

sounds unlikely, why would anyone do that?


did PFC not also say he never drives and any time he needs a car his wife drives? i figure from that understanding its all theoretical bluster anyway when he discusses being behind the wheel

mystes posted:

I think you're all just talking past each other because I think FirstnaneLastname was originally responding to PFC saying he drives the speed limit to intentionally piss people off and yeah intentionally trying to piss lovely drivers off is dumb whereas other people were giving other reasons to drive the speed limit

Platystemon posted:

I’d better put my cans in the trash can, because some CHUD might shoot me if I recycle.

Wait, no, actually I need to litter, because even using a trash can might trigger them.

BonHair posted:

Starting to think that maybe giving guys with extremely fragile egos access to deadly weapons is a bad idea

FirstnameLastname posted:

no it's not

the road is not a social environment. like, period. it's a physical space of physical objects that are already being piloted by people when you're on it, you can't change that from there, that's changed from outside of there, everything on it is changed from outside of there, when you are there, all you can do is increase your safety profile, or lower it. you literally can't do anything else when on the road, anything else that you think you might be doing is only doing one of those two things.

don't socialize there, as it will not increase your safety profile

FirstnameLastname posted:

no it's not

the road is not a social environment. like, period. it's a physical space of physical objects that are already being piloted by people when you're on it, you can't change that from there, that's changed from outside of there, everything on it is changed from outside of there, when you are there, all you can do is increase your safety profile, or lower it. you literally can't do anything else when on the road, anything else that you think you might be doing is only doing one of those two things.

don't socialize there, as it will not increase your safety profile

FirstnameLastname posted:

i have never murdered anyone and didn't say to murder people, i said to avoid other traffic on the road rather than antagonizing strangers by deliberately ignoring the reality of how traffic flow works for ideological reasons, because moving vehicles aren't a place to argue points from. they are dangerous
i have had someone chase and try to run me off of the road in their car after they got upset i didn't brake for them to merge, after catching up to me at an offramp, they pitched a baseball,-sized ball of ice at my head with a 35mph speed differential, it missed by about half a foot and exploded against the a-pillar
three members of my immediate family members have had guns pointed directly at them over roadrage poo poo. you can think it's unlikely all you want, you don't want it fuckin happening to you, don't open yourself up to the chances of it unnecessarily - it doesn't matter how right you are if the only possible outcomes are A: Nothing or B: people get hurt. that's not the way to be right, which makes it wrong, which makes it bad. its that simple

if you are only considering a course of action because you feel your car affords you some protection from potential consequences, then you're being a dick for no good reason.

when you are operating a vehicle you should be entirely focused on that, not getting fussy about how fast or slow traffic is moving. not altering your decision making process to focus on pissing off the guy in the truck. - no, im not the guy in the truck, i don't drive a truck, pls stop projecting whatever scenario you've got in your head onto what I'm saying, this is objectively true.
it has nothing to do with any ideological stance it is a matter of physics and basic human psychology: it is not appropriate to try to get an emotional reaction out of someone piloting 3-6 thousand pounds of steel moving several dozen feet-per-second. especially with how lax licensing standards are, you already have no idea if the person you are upsetting is capable of safely operating their vehicle under the best of conditions, why would you want to make those conditions any worse and increase the likelihood of anything bad happening? Have you ever been in a car crash? They're terrifying, avoid them lol

Ham Equity posted:

Look, the only safe thing to do is to put your gas pedal to the max and never, ever let up, because if you don't, the driver behind you will become Hitler and go genocide a bunch of people.

Which is to say if you're not speeding a whole bunch, you're basically a Nazi.

Grassy Knowles posted:

i think you’re missing the forest for the trees. the argument is that you go the speed limit because it’s safer for the pedestrians, it pissing off another driver is just the frosting of snow on those trees.

Ham Equity posted:

FirstnameLastname posted:

the most dangerous part of driving is the other cars and the most dangerous part of the other cars is the difference in speed, so prioritizing reducing the amount of other cars around you and reducing the speed between you and them is going to make you safer than anything that puts you near them at higher speed differential

FirstnameLastname posted:

in my experience (and im not saying this to go after anyone its just a thing I've noticed) people who follow the exact speed limit often, not always but often, it's kind-of a stereotype, aren't comfortable with driving in general, for one reason or another, and aren't able to tell what their vehicle can or cannot handle, so end up overly prioritizing speed limit compliance as a kinda "appeal to authority" through the speed limit to mentally make themselves feel safer, since by following the Rules they are in compliance and therefore safe;

FirstnameLastname posted:

im not saying to speed though!

im saying to prioritize avoiding other traffic over following the exact designated speed, as in f.ex. if everyone's going 10-15 over and going 5 over keeps traffic from approaching you or you from approaching traffic at a 10+mph differential, it's always going to be much safer than going the exact speed and having several cars passing you at 10-15+ per minute

like, don't prioritize a designated speed over the actual situation on the road. that's the important part of what im saying
the most dangerous part of driving is the other cars and the most dangerous part of the other cars is the difference in speed, so prioritizing reducing the amount of other cars around you and reducing the speed between you and them is going to make you safer than anything that puts you near them at higher speed differential

the useful part of a speed limit is that it gives you an idea of how fast other traffic will be going on that road before you encounter it + when they throw the yellow hazard speeds up on corners.
as an explicit direction to follow, speed limits are v. inconsistently applied & often don't reflect the actual driving conditions (in both directions), treating it like the default 'safest speed' and not factoring in traffic, your own vehicles capabilities and the condition of the road surface can paradoxically be deceptively dangerous in itself as if you're relying on the speed limit to determine whether or not you're safe, if you're ever going too fast for conditions (fluid spils, rain, ice etc), it will catch you entirely off guard

in my experience (and im not saying this to go after anyone its just a thing I've noticed) people who follow the exact speed limit often, not always but often, it's kind-of a stereotype, aren't comfortable with driving in general, for one reason or another, and aren't able to tell what their vehicle can or cannot handle, so end up overly prioritizing speed limit compliance as a kinda "appeal to authority" through the speed limit to mentally make themselves feel safer, since by following the Rules they are in compliance and therefore safe;
except that's not how it works, the human-made rules don't decide anything at all on the road, only physics, and physics don't respond to reason, so to keep yourself as safe as possible it's necessary to prioritize that physical reality over anything else incl. emotions or rational "they shouldn't be going that fast/doing that" kind of judgements or decisionmaking in general - even if you're 1000% right!
cuz that stuff simply doesn't apply to the vehicles, only the people in them, when what the vehicles are doing is what ultimately dictate the situation, so as long as you're currently driving, it's only ever going to increase your likelihood of a crash or other bad outcome

Grassy Knowles posted:

as I’m not a driver, I think of this in terms of the pedestrian who also has a strong interest in decreasing their speed differential with the cars on the road

Bushiz posted:

Look dude everyone fully comprehends the thesis of your argument we all just think "I should be able to endanger pedestrians because I'm scared" is a lovely argument.

Platystemon posted:

PROTIP: if you own a gun over a year without negligent discharging at least once, you aren't handling it enough. NDs are a natural part of handling weapons, just like tweaking your back is part of weightlifting and car accidents are part of driving. I ND several times a year because I actually HANDLE and know how to USE my weapons. It makes me a better firearms handler and marksman, and it's a small part of the price you pay in the sheepdog lifestyle Simple fact is, the "safety mentality" will build mental blocks in your head that will get you killed. You need to be comfortable putting your finger on the trigger and pointing the gun wherever you want no matter the time, place, or status of the weapon. Taking time to check whether the gun is loaded whenever you pick one up will serve to make you hesitate in a personal defense scenario. You loving safety idiots are going to get people killed all because of this loving "ND" shaming. Guns are inherently dangerous, you need to accept it.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

not in Pennsylvania

mystes posted:

I think there's probably a fair case that if you're just thinking about your own personal safety while driving on a highway, it's better to go slightly faster than the speed limit if that's the speed everyone else is going and conditions allow

Once you try to argue that's better for pedestrians or something that gets pretty ridiculous though

Grassy Knowles posted:

i do not disbelieve your reasoning behind it, i just disagree about what the outcomes of the behavior look like. faster only equals safer until an accident happens, at which point I believe the speed is the highest determining factor towards outcome. and since no one worth considering in these terms plans on an accident, we should be acting with the safety protocols as if one is going to happen.

can someone post the speed vs outcomes infographic again tia