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Shard posted:Here's another one - with hindsight what is the general consensus about Daniel Bryan and Edge retiring but then being able to wrestle later?Were the injuries overblown, did they just need enough time to heal, is it all smoke and mirrors or did medical procedures get better? Or a little bit of everything? wwe told their doctors not to clear them until it was convenient for wwe to have them back in the ring when it was clear they were going to run out their contracts and wrestle somewhere else after getting cleared by outside doctors.
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Oct 7, 2023 01:00
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Shard posted:Was cm punk actually ever considered the best wrestler in the world? An extraordinary talent of exceptional ability and charisma when graded on the 2005-2014 WWE curve. If you grade outside of that specific time period and company, he falls down the rankings pretty quick I think to a very mid level wrestler with an above average promo ability. Not gonna make diamonds with someone bad, but isn't gonna put on a complete stinker of a match and at the very least the promos will be fun.
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Oct 7, 2023 01:20
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Shard posted:Was cm punk actually ever considered the best wrestler in the world? No, it was a slogan but he was never ever the best wrestler in any company he was in. This isn't a knock on him, he's actually insane that someone as athletically limited as him understood wrestling in such a fundamental level that he could put everything together to be one of the best. Its like Chris Jericho and they often got compared - they were both never the best at everything, they had moments and ebbs but they were complete as complete can be. When Jericho retires, if, he'll go down not as the best but maybe definitely The Greatest. Punk's like that. You watch Punk and Jerichoand hell Terry Funk to learn how to get the absolute most out of absolutely nothing.
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Oct 7, 2023 01:48
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I'm not 100%, but I think for Bryan Danielson it was more that WWE didn't want to risk injuries with him, or if you're more spiteful, were still angry at him for derailing their plans with WM30. Having a few years to heal up probably helped greatly, and AEW's reduced schedule is also reducing the wear and tear he endures. Eventually Bryan was going to wrestle SOMEWHERE, and there's no actual governing body saying someone can't wrestle. See: Ric Flair's pathetic showing recently, when he had really bad hard isseues. So eventually WWE relented. For Edge, I'm pretty sure it was a hard diagnosis stopping him. WWE were always pretty strong behind Edge, and likely would have ran him as long as he wanted to keep going. From notes around that time, Edge was already considering going part time when his 2011 contract ended. There's probably some sports medicine advancements helping him recover and eventually make a return(plus the all important time). But it was real - There was a period during the Christian/ADR feud where they were protecting Edge hard from any physicality - like Bret Hart in 2010 levels of 'you cannot make any offensive physical moves against this guy', and even then, I think Bret took some worked punches still? I remember it being kinda silly at times on why ADR/Brodus didn't ever attack Edge. So conspiracy to sideline DBry because he's too popular and distracting WWE's plans from what Vince actually wants? Yeah, I'd believe it. For Edge? Nope. They legitimately believed he was wholly hosed and one flat back bump away from total paralysis. Relatedly, what ever became of Sheamus's horrible neck issues? I remember years ago that people were expecting his imminent retirement because he had, "a bad case of Edge-neck". But the guys still going strong and one of the bright spots in WWE's darkness? Lid posted:No, it was a slogan but he was never ever the best wrestler in any company he was in. This isn't a knock on him, he's actually insane that someone as athletically limited as him understood wrestling in such a fundamental level that he could put everything together to be one of the best. Its like Chris Jericho and they often got compared - they were both never the best at everything, they had moments and ebbs but they were complete as complete can be. When Jericho retires, if, he'll go down not as the best but maybe definitely The Greatest. Punk's like that. You watch Punk and Jerichoand hell Terry Funk to learn how to get the absolute most out of absolutely nothing. I wouldn't call Chris Jericho athletically limited. Dude's still pulling off the Lionsault at 52. Should he be doing that? Probably not. Still miles ahead of Punk's athleticism though, who started doing a Randy Savage-inspired elbow drop a decade ago and people were trashing how garbage it looked even back then. NameHurtBrain fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 01:53
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NameHurtBrain posted:Relatedly, what ever became of Sheamus's horrible neck issues? I remember years ago that people were expecting his imminent retirement because he had, "a bad case of Edge-neck". But the guys still going strong and one of the bright spots in WWE's darkness? Sheamus has been pretty public about the recovery process through his various workout vlogs. As far as I can tell, they just... caught his neck issues at a better time and had better therapy routines for it than they had when Edge retired. Besides, brawling has always been a reasonably safe style for people with bad necks.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:09
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Sheamus has had a not-insignificant amount of time off (he's out right now!) but it seems to be shoulder issues? But he missed six months in 2013-2014, another four months in 2014-2015, spent four years primarily in tags with Claudio that were reportedly in part to give him an easier schedule, then missed most of 2019 due to injury and has wrestled a light-for-WWE schedule since then; a significant portion of his current run has also been in tags with the Brawling Brutes. That's not to say he doesn't still have big singles matches, but they're relatively spaced out, and as mentioned above have largely been brawling hoss fights with Drew and Gunther and the like which are probably safer than most big singles matches in terms of neck bumps in 2023, as long as he never has to face off against Ridge Holland.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:19
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What's the longest time between a wrestler retiring or just not wrestling anymore then returning at generally the same level they had before? I remember being impressed with Ricky Steamboat vs Jericho but I don't know how long he was out of performing.
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Oct 7, 2023 04:00
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You have Christian at about 7(?) years.
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Oct 7, 2023 04:20
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Admiral Joeslop posted:What's the longest time between a wrestler retiring or just not wrestling anymore then returning at generally the same level they had before? I remember being impressed with Ricky Steamboat vs Jericho but I don't know how long he was out of performing. I think he had to pack it in during 94 or 95, so around 15 years between matches.
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Oct 7, 2023 04:50
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It's also worth noting that, as it turns out, when you have a debilitating retirement-worthy injury and you take 5-10 years to stop throwing yourself at a barely padded hardwood floor a bunch of times every week, you feel a lot better and can do it again.
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Oct 7, 2023 06:04
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STONE COLD 64 posted:wwe told their doctors not to clear them until it was convenient for wwe to have them back in the ring when it was clear they were going to run out their contracts and wrestle somewhere else after getting cleared by outside doctors. IIRC, with Danielson in particular, he's since said that once he announced he had to retire, the non-WWE doctors he had seen reached out to him and said, "wait, no, what are they telling you? You need a lot of time for this to resolve, but there's no reason you can't wrestle again once it does." Since Danielson genuinely seems to like Vince for some reason, he didn't push the issue too hard at first. But once he felt like coming back and the WWE doctors were still telling him, "no, you're done, that's it," he gave the company an ultimatum: he'd see any neutral doctors WWE chose and do any tests WWE wanted, and if he passed them, then WWE could do what they wanted but, like you pointed out, he would be wrestling somewhere as soon as he was legally able. (And then he feuded with Big Cass and the matches were so awful that people were like, "man, maybe their doctors were right and Bryan genuinely is cooked.")
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Oct 7, 2023 16:07
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Remember when Hogan, a childhood hero of Edge, tweeted out that Edge was a big baby because Hogan and everyone else in his era just worked through injuries What an rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:28
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Remember when Hogan, a childhood hero of Edge, tweeted out that Edge was a big baby because Hogan and everyone else in his era just worked through injuries Edge was also one of the guys instrumental in making Hogan look great during the period where he was hanging around the upper midcard. Jericho mentioned in his book as the brands were switching talent around Hogan was upset "he was losing all his guys". To Jericho 's credit he was savvy enough to realize that Hogan was bemoaning having athletic, younger guys to do 80%-90% of the work in tag matches.
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Oct 7, 2023 16:37
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My cousin is a nurse and her husband is a prominent spine/neck surgeon. I talked to them about this the other day and, apparently, the technology for that stuff has progressed insanely in the last decade The improvements are especially the case if you are a rich-ish athlete who can rehab and have money to afford the best treatment and devices, which is probably why Edge went from "probably going to die in the ring if he wrestles again" to "hour long mediocre match with Randy Orton".
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Oct 7, 2023 17:48
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disaster pastor posted:(And then he feuded with Big Cass and the matches were so awful that people were like, "man, maybe their doctors were right and Bryan genuinely is cooked.") coincidentally enough, Bryan wrestled Big Bill a couple of weeks ago in a tag match alongside Claudio and Starks, and obviously Bill is much better now than he was five years ago, but they just worked so much better together this time around
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Oct 7, 2023 19:11
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disaster pastor posted:IIRC, with Danielson in particular, he's since said that once he announced he had to retire, the non-WWE doctors he had seen reached out to him and said, "wait, no, what are they telling you? You need a lot of time for this to resolve, but there's no reason you can't wrestle again once it does." I remember people being more like "Big Cass is the wort wrestler on the planet other than Enzo."
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Oct 7, 2023 19:42
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Hell, Bryan didn't even have that bad a match with Bill, it was just kinda meh, which was obviously a big mark against Bill because I'm pretty sure Danielson could carry me to a 4 star match.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:44
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Didn't they do Danielson/Bill in the run up to MJF/Danielson?
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Oct 7, 2023 20:35
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He was in the tag match
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Oct 7, 2023 20:39
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I had forgotten that Bryan and Big Cass had two PPV singles matches, perhaps not coincidentally the two highest rated (and the two final) PPV matches of Big Cass's main roster career in WWE.Dave Meltzer posted:Great Balls of Fire
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Oct 7, 2023 20:42
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I just remember the promo where Dragon promised to hit him "with a shot to the dome when your momma ain't home"
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Oct 7, 2023 21:30
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ChrisBTY posted:Didn't they do Danielson/Bill in the run up to MJF/Danielson? they actually didn't! The 9/16 match was the first time they'd wrestled together since 2018.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:32
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By the time they were doing MJF vs Danielson, they'd abandoned the Firm due to the double whammy of Regal and Punk both being out of the picture, so there wasn't the clear link between Bill and Max any more to make it make sense.
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Oct 8, 2023 00:19
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Shard posted:Here's another one - with hindsight what is the general consensus about Daniel Bryan and Edge retiring but then being able to wrestle later?Were the injuries overblown, did they just need enough time to heal, is it all smoke and mirrors or did medical procedures get better? Or a little bit of everything? It seems like what sidelined him indefinitely was the 1-2 punch of Bryan 1. Suffering a concussion that WWE missed, resulting in him being sent on the European tour, where it was eventually caught. 2. It being his first concussion since his agreement with his wife that if he suffered another concussion, he would come clean about all of the concussions he omitted from his history when he signed in 2009. That they missed it, combined with the truth bomb? It always felt like they were worried about getting sued if something happened to him after that point. While he was out indefinitely with no end in sight, he watched an episode of Inside MMA where they profiled how the Serra-Longo MMA team was using some kind of new test/device from a company named Evoke Neuroscience that was helping them catch more subtle neurological issues. So Bryan reached out to Evoke and tried out their gimmick that I forget the name of. They called him and told him that he had a lesion in an area of the brain that causes seizures. He told Vince, and with the next Raw being in Seattle, Vince basically ordered him to officially retire and do the speech on that show. He did some media in the next few days where he laid out all of the details, at which point the various doctors he'd seen on his own reached out to him. One of them asked why he retired, so Bryan relayed the story. That's when the doctor exlained that 1. The Evoke thing wasn't a diagnostic test. 2. "Lesion" in those terms simply meant "there's SOMETHING there, but that's the extent of what we know" and not a literal abrasion on his brain. So then his depression over having wrestling taken away from him was compounded by how it was probably all kind of bullshit.
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Oct 8, 2023 01:49
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i mean the company being what it was i absolutely believe they looked for any reason to ice him while still having him under their thumb so him getting over wouldn't derail the Roman project and only when the likelihood of him making money for somebody else, which is the worst thing you could do in vince's eyes, only then they acquiesced and told their doctors to clear him.
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Oct 9, 2023 03:25
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I don't know anything, but it seems like there's a huge difference between taking the WWE standard time off for a given injury, and taking as much time as you need with no expectation that you'll even return to work.
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Oct 9, 2023 14:39
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Myself, like a lot of people my age that I knew, grew up watching the attitude era and phased out when Cena was getting big. What were the biggest moments of the 00's?
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Oct 12, 2023 03:10
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davidbix posted:To add to what others have said, there are a bunch of weird layers to the Danielson retirement that have largely been forgotten. that was interesting. thanks for sharing
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Oct 12, 2023 03:15
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Kurash posted:Myself, like a lot of people my age that I knew, grew up watching the attitude era and phased out when Cena was getting big. What were the biggest moments of the 00's? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msDuNZyYAIQ
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Oct 12, 2023 03:22
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Kurash posted:Myself, like a lot of people my age that I knew, grew up watching the attitude era and phased out when Cena was getting big. What were the biggest moments of the 00's? Cena's surprise return at Royal Rumble 2008.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:26
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Flair's "retirement" maybe?
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Oct 12, 2023 03:39
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Kurash posted:Myself, like a lot of people my age that I knew, grew up watching the attitude era and phased out when Cena was getting big. What were the biggest moments of the 00's? CM Punk tried to kidnap Jared from Subway.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:43
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Off the top of my head, Jeff Hardy winning the WWE Championship at Armageddon, Ric Flair's retirement, The Nexus's debut, HBK vs. Undertaker in the run up to Wrestlemania 26, Chris Jericho turning heel on HBK by putting him through the JeriTron and becoming a suit-wearing heel, CM Punk's "pipebomb" promo and subsequent victory at Money In The Bank 2011, Edge cashing in Money in the Bank for the first time against Cena at New Year's Revolution... For non-WWE you have Steen vs. Generico in ROH and their match at Final Battle 2010, Mick Foley's run in TNA, others...
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Oct 12, 2023 03:46
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Real answer, I guess it depends on what exactly you mean by “moments”, but off the top of my head: -Brock Lesnars first run and eventually quitting to play football but ending up in UFC -Death of Eddie Guerrero -Death of Chris Benoit -Undertakers Wrestlemania streak became a big deal -Ring of Honor doing good indy things -The general rise of indy wrestling, PWG, Chikara, etc. -Christian jumping to and becoming a main eventer in TNA -Kurt Angle jumping to TNA -ECW revival in WWE -CM Punk signing with WWE and eventually debuting in ECW -Samoa Joe
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Oct 12, 2023 03:48
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Oh yeah, ECW One Night Stand 2005 deserves a nod for sure.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:50
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Erin M. Fiasco posted:Oh yeah, ECW One Night Stand 2005 deserves a nod for sure. Sandman's entrance is one of the hypest things I've ever seen. They believe because he believes.
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Oct 12, 2023 03:53
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neoaxd posted:Sandman's entrance is one of the hypest things I've ever seen. Hell yeah https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1czzyj
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Oct 12, 2023 03:58
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I love making GBS threads all over CM Punk right now because he is such a pathetic manbaby, but his WWE career did have some great moments. His heel work on Smackdown was fantastic when he leaned into his straight edge lifestyle, antagonizing Jeff Hardy for his real life history of substance abuse. Hardy would fight back and they had a fantastic ladder match that Hardy just... lost. Punk basically got to call him an idiot druggie, Hardy said "Fight me!" and Punk did, Hardy lost and then left WWE, end of story. That was pretty amazing and got nuclear heat on Punk long before the pipe bomb.
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Oct 12, 2023 04:27
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The best part of that was that they let Punk keep cutting promos on Jeff after he left. He came out the next week dressed as Jeff and using his entrance (I think the emo hair kid gif comes from that clip), and then after Jeff got popped again for drug possession & DUI, the next week Punk came out and said "I TOOOOOOLD YOOOOUUUUU!" It was framed like Jeff was going to return and beat his rear end, but it was literally just Punk making GBS threads on Jeff for heat.
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Oct 12, 2023 05:10
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And then they had Undertaker squash him because he wouldn't wear a suit
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Oct 12, 2023 05:24
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