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Thats because they don’t do any real world building. Everyone is excited to see how they translate the books to the show that they’ll slip in a very minor character name and everyone loses their poo poo because they know they from the books. It’s been 2 seasons and nobody has even really explained why the dragon is needed. THE titular character is just kinda there fafing about doing gently caress all except growling a couple lines here and there while everyone else just pulls him to a new scene. Ya know that scene where Lan says some things to Rand about sword techniques? It’s for the book readers and it’s not even a good representation of it since it matters very little to the tv show but the book readers can point and say they know that! Like the show is fine but I don’t think anyone would give one poo poo about it if it wasn’t attached to WoT.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:15
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Valentin posted:that's not really my issue with it. what's neat about the collar and bracelet is the way they genre-fy processes of oppression and colonization. they simply prevent you from translating an intention to do harm to your captor into actual action, standing in for the complex ways that a person's world and thought patterns can be hemmed in and twisted such that violence to one's oppressors becomes a frightening, taboo, or simply impossible thought. that's the whole point of the (compelling!) water jug scene. what they do in this episode breaks that simple but effective piece of genre work in a disappointing way, because there's no real reason she should be able to use the collar and bracelet as a weapon, which she basically does. on a further level that probably isn't worth breaking down here, i find it exceedingly personally and politically distasteful, as well as usually corrosive to the meaning and intent of a work, when e.g. "overcoming" slavery is portrayed as a matter of willpower and personal endurance. what makes the collar and bracelet so good is that they bypass that very tired trope so that the portrayal of slavery can focus on the broader power dynamics between these two individuals in the context of seanchan society and not strength or power levels, and "egwene is simply so cool and driven she can endure the pain better than weak and evil renna" does shade into that a little too much for my taste. I agree with some of your broader points here especially her being able to collar renna since she is in fact basically using it as a weapon but on your last one I feel like Egwene's sheer willpower and determination being enough to withstand the feedback loop and "win" was established already in the episode with her training, when she outlasted even a sitter of the most strong willed people on the planet, and then on top of that we also saw how fast the sul'drat that Nynaeve collared broke this week. Invalid Validation posted:It’s been 2 seasons and nobody has even really explained why the dragon is needed. They have said he has to fight the Dark One in the Last Battle a lot imo.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:19
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IcePhoenix posted:I agree with some of your broader points here especially her being able to collar renna since she is in fact basically using it as a weapon but on your last one I feel like Egwene's sheer willpower and determination being enough to withstand the feedback loop and "win" was established already in the episode with her training, when she outlasted even a sitter of the most strong willed people on the planet, and then on top of that we also saw how fast the sul'drat that Nynaeve collared broke this week. It's pretty easy to believe a damane who'd been subjected to countless horrors unbroken would last longer than a woman who's never experienced that pain before and just had the very core of her identity shattered
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Oct 6, 2023 21:26
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IcePhoenix posted:I agree with some of your broader points here especially her being able to collar renna since she is in fact basically using it as a weapon but on your last one I feel like Egwene's sheer willpower and determination being enough to withstand the feedback loop and "win" was established already in the episode with her training, when she outlasted even a sitter of the most strong willed people on the planet, and then on top of that we also saw how fast the sul'drat that Nynaeve collared broke this week. The weapon thing isn't a factor at all imo. The Seanchan themselves don't view the A'dam as a weapon. They view it as a necessary tool that makes someone who can channel safe for the rest of society. Egwene's just using their own exact mindset against them.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:32
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Gwaihir posted:The weapon thing isn't a factor at all imo. The Seanchan themselves don't view the A'dam as a weapon. They view it as a necessary tool that makes someone who can channel safe for the rest of society. Egwene's just using their own exact mindset against them. A water jug also isn't a weapon. That's the whole point. "Egwene successfully internalized her captors' worldview to the point where the a'dam ceased to be an implement of literal violence done to her on a daily basis or a symbol of human enslavement, and instead became simply a value neutral tool that she then uses to enslave someone else without recognizing that act as violence" would be a hell of a plotline but I don't know that the show really depicted that or is interested in dealing with its consequences (and again, making it something that can be rules-lawyered around really undercuts the totalizing nature of the collar and bracelet). Valentin fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 21:40
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Ultimately in the end I'm willing to just allow how the show did it based on the rule of cool because that scene was insanely cool and satisfying
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Oct 6, 2023 21:46
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Not unreasonable that the usual rules don't apply to a special magical tool.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:55
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In the Seanchan Empire women who can channel are either enslaved or killed, collaring Renna was saving her life.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:17
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I could see it working by some sort of extreme technical wording, Aes Sedai style. I'm not bothered by it.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:21
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When we see Egwene's Mind Palace Plan of what to do with the pitcher, it's very clearly used as an actual weapon. A physical device to whack the sul'dam. The A'dam doesn't do that. It just goes around the neck. No blood, no nothing. Renna doesn't even stagger back like she just got throat punched. It was the gentlest little click. I think you're putting too much reliance on a magical device being able to reason something out. Especially given the dozens of examples we see on screen of similar magical devices not being able to reason out a lie as a lie.
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Oct 6, 2023 22:32
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Ishamael standing there throwing fireballs at Egwene was really silly. In general it felt like they wanted to crush three episodes of content into one, which is a shame... I can imagine the pacing must be a struggle to get right for an adaptation like this, but the last episode of this season just didn't do it for me as a conclusion. I liked the season in general but you could tell they needed a lot more room to work with.
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Oct 6, 2023 23:00
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Yeah 8 episodes is not enough per season. They need at least two more.
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Oct 6, 2023 23:18
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 accurate depiction
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Oct 7, 2023 00:21
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My read on Ishamael he was weakened after breaking out the other Forsaken from the seal that Lews said he might not be able to break
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Oct 7, 2023 00:21
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Not a book reader. Am a Star Wars fan. Enjoyed this finale way more than the latest Star Wars series finale so  I legit teared up when Mat realized he's not a baddie (and apparently summoned some sick polearm skills?) Not sure how to feel about Daddy Whitecloak dying or the Whitecloaks in general apart from the one obvious super bad guy. They answered a call, at least? Daddy Whitecloak didn't seem like a bad person, he just killed an animal that was ravaging at his subordinate that happened to be an obvious bad guy? Yes, they seem to hunt channelers so that's bad, and the thread discussions about KKK mirroring. Wait the guy with the long nails had martial prowess judging by his....posing and stance? Well, not that it meant much since all of them got skewered. Oh well, their synchronized posing was cool before they died!
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Oct 7, 2023 01:23
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I enjoy the show and I've never read the books but I just looked it up and there are fourteen books?! According to some people in this thread they are either on book 2 or a combination of book 2/3, in which case this series is never going to make it to completion. I'm not sure if I want to keep watching or wait a few years to see if they are able to finish... I hate getting invested in shows that just get canceled.
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Oct 7, 2023 01:51
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17 books and a prequel
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Oct 7, 2023 02:00
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Vim Fuego posted:17 books and a prequel  It's definitely 14 books and a prequel. delightful posted:I enjoy the show and I've never read the books but I just looked it up and there are fourteen books?! According to some people in this thread they are either on book 2 or a combination of book 2/3, in which case this series is never going to make it to completion. I'm not sure if I want to keep watching or wait a few years to see if they are able to finish... I hate getting invested in shows that just get canceled. There's several books later that were much slower and a large number of pages can be cut or greatly condensed. Don't worry.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:03
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delightful posted:I enjoy the show and I've never read the books but I just looked it up and there are fourteen books?! According to some people in this thread they are either on book 2 or a combination of book 2/3, in which case this series is never going to make it to completion. I'm not sure if I want to keep watching or wait a few years to see if they are able to finish... I hate getting invested in shows that just get canceled. The showrunners say they have an eight season story planned out, so that means they're probably gonna either mash multiple books together into single seasons or just condense the essential plot beats from whole books down to a couple of episodes because the books kinda get lost in the reeds in the saggy middle books. A 1:1 adaptation of the books is impossible but as we've seen, they are NOT doing that in the slightest. We're about a quarter of the way done the show's story now, but they need to speed it the gently caress up otherwise they're gonna be at this poo poo for another 12 years if it keeps taking them two years to get a season out.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:04
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delightful posted:I enjoy the show and I've never read the books but I just looked it up and there are fourteen books?! According to some people in this thread they are either on book 2 or a combination of book 2/3, in which case this series is never going to make it to completion. I'm not sure if I want to keep watching or wait a few years to see if they are able to finish... I hate getting invested in shows that just get canceled. The plan is apparently for eight seasons, and that's feasible given that the later books have a lot of dead weight space in them. That said, worst case, series is cancelled, you can read the books and find out what happens. Basically everyone agrees that the series has a very strong ending.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:06
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A single effort post on this forum could probably hit the highlights for 3 of the middle books, so yea they absolutely can hit the target of 8 seasons.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:24
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Ok thank you, that is actually reassuring. Let us pray to our Lord Bezos that he keeps funding this for 6 more seasons.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:26
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delightful posted:Ok thank you, that is actually reassuring. Let us pray to our Lord Bezos that he keeps funding this for 6 more seasons. Season 3 is almost done filming, actors strike resolution pending. So it's actually just 5 now.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:27
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Remember when we had to wait six years to get through those three books? Good times.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:28
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Is the thread’s “no book spoilers” policy intended to preserve the future plot of the show, or to allow TV watchers to become book readers and discover the differences on their own? There are a couple of things I’d like to credit the show for handling better than in the books, but that would obviously require discussing the books’ versions of those scenes and/or characters.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:57
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I feel like any book discussion and comparison should go in the book barn thread. I would also highly recommend the books to anyone who hasn't read them but is enjoying the show.
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Oct 7, 2023 03:01
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It also helps that the BB thread is way faster moving than this one, if that's your bag
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Oct 7, 2023 03:06
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Any book-to-show comparison talk is a slippery slope, especially since every person has their own threshold for what they consider to be spoilers. Stuff they seem to have skipped may come up later. Best to keep show-only impressions here and book chat over in the other thread
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Oct 7, 2023 03:30
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Was Ishmael killed according to his own plan? Since that’s what he wanted anyway? If that’s the case, are the super friends just doing as the dark ones (or whatever they’re called) want? Yeah, you can tell I’m a non book reader. I like this show, but holy hell there’s a lot to keep track of, and it could definitely use some more time to breathe.
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Oct 7, 2023 03:37
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:Was Ishmael killed according to his own plan? Since that’s what he wanted anyway? If that’s the case, are the super friends just doing as the dark ones (or whatever they’re called) want? Based on what he and Lanfear said in this episode, his plan was to convince Rand to turn evil by turning his friends evil first. Ishamael wants to destroy the world by helping the Dark One win and a guaranteed way to do that was to turn the Dragon to the shadow. Egwene had been captured and was ideally going to be tortured into a weapon of war, Matt was being given lots of drugs and left alone with an evil dagger, and Perrin kind of escaped before he could do more than some small mind games. What Lanfear did is teleport Rand there before he was really ready so he fell on his backup plan of just killing the Dragon. Which Lanfear also ruined. So he died, but not before his backup backup plan of releasing the other Forsaken. Actually dying is a bit of a consolation prize for him since last time around the Dragon refused to kill him.
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Oct 7, 2023 04:14
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LMAO at Mat making a magic spear by tying magic dagger to a stick. D&D player-rear end move
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Oct 7, 2023 05:16
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The Horn of Valyr is $85 at West Elm
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Oct 7, 2023 05:45
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Vim Fuego posted:The Horn of Valyr is $85 at West Elm Not even the right shape, or color, nor can I call the heroes of the horn to fight by your side. 2/5 could not recommend.
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Oct 7, 2023 05:52
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Vim Fuego posted:The Horn of Valyr is $85 at West Elm I really liked that the Horn looked like some insane Star Trek-rear end sci-fi thing that came from the future or something. I love every little reminder they throw you that the Age of Legends was the Magic Future/Past.
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Oct 7, 2023 06:16
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In the Age of Legends the horn was actually an ordinary, everyday personal security device. $44.99 at Best Buy.
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Oct 7, 2023 06:29
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withak posted:In the Age of Legends the horn was actually an ordinary, everyday personal security device. $44.99 at Best Buy. I would lol so hard if Mat tried to blow it, and well, uh 
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Oct 7, 2023 06:53
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:Was Ishmael killed according to his own plan? Since that’s what he wanted anyway? If that’s the case, are the super friends just doing as the dark ones (or whatever they’re called) want? For this one, it feels to me that this was Ishamael‘s plan B. Release the other Forsaken, go out blazing, and hope that in all the chaos that is to come the super friends lose to the Dark. Remember, he wants the Wheel to be broken. He doesn’t have to be around when that happens for him to achieve his goal. A small reminder: the Dark One is the anti-creator and the Forsaken/Chosen are the leaders of the Dark One’s forces from the Age of Legends.
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Oct 7, 2023 06:57
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LinkesAuge posted:Ya, it's a horrible trope but I kinda expected it giving the overall writing. I'm also a non-book reader and I honestly think a lot of this stuff is actually very clear. The bolded in particular is pretty directly stated in the show: Lanfear is the least dangerous and most predictable of the Forsaken. She was friends with Ishamael and Lews Therin, so Ishamael thinks he understands her motivations and can work with her the most effectively out of all the Forsaken. It's a given, then, that the rest of the Forsaken are far, far worse than Lanfear and Ishamael deliberately did not awaken them yet because they would be harder to control. I don't think this show is perfect or anything, but I have a fairly good understanding of the stakes and characters. Oh, except the Whitecloaks. I've forgotten everything about them from the first season. They're men who hate witches, is basically all I remember. Metis of the Chat Thread fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 12:14
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Metis of the Hallway posted:I don't think this show is perfect or anything, but I have a fairly good understanding of the stakes and characters. Oh, except the Whitecloaks. I've forgotten everything about them from the first season. They're men who hate witches, is basically all I remember.
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Oct 7, 2023 12:22
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Something like half the books could have been resolved with a five minute conference call between the principle players, with nothing of value lost I like show Ishamael, but his show characterization wouldn't really play into the book confrontation at Falme, so I'm glad they rewrote it rather than trying to force it. It does mean they owe Rand a future storyline where he shows some competence and volition
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Oct 7, 2023 13:04
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