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Rewatching this with my fiancé so we can watch the movie and while we're both having a great time some of the jokes have aged like milk and really highlights how dumb the early 00s were. Gay jokes, rape jokes, gay prison rape jokes, transphobia etc. Still, we finished season 2 and we're looking forward to the rest of the show with it's insane lore and arc(h)s.
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Oct 3, 2023 10:55
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So much of the early stuff feels like it belongs to the 2000s edgy/pointlessly-transgressive Adult Swim kind of era that felt so cooool at the time, I guess because we needed something to ramp up to after the Simpsons gave way to Beavis & Butt-head and then to South Park. I remember excitedly trying to hype the show verbally to someone, and described the bit with Race Bannon parachuting out of a plane and getting killed on the way down and the parachute dragging his lifeless corpse around in the wind and kids poking it with sticks. It was super funny in execution but as the description came out of my mouth the person's expression I was talking to just went from  to 
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Oct 3, 2023 11:07
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I’m rewatching Metalpocalypse now for the same reason, and yeah, that show aged worse in some places. I know they’re supposed to be the biggest idiots in the world, but it’s kind of like Cartman in South Park. Even though they’re idiots, they’re still saying lovely things.
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Oct 3, 2023 12:27
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Scaly Haylie posted:I watched an absolute poo poo-ton of Venture Brothers with a partner this week and, uh, I'm sorry to say one thing led to another
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Oct 3, 2023 17:00
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I'll say it again- LUSH!
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Oct 3, 2023 17:33
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Two pink pillowy gifts from god, man, and super science!
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Oct 3, 2023 17:36
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For everyone waiting for shirts, I just got a notification that Titmouse created a label for me, so they’re still coming
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Oct 5, 2023 00:11
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I'm childishly amused at the notion of a company called Titmouse clothing my man-boobs
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Oct 5, 2023 00:39
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IUG posted:I’m rewatching Metalpocalypse now for the same reason, and yeah, that show aged worse in some places. I know they’re supposed to be the biggest idiots in the world, but it’s kind of like Cartman in South Park. Even though they’re idiots, they’re still saying lovely things. Depiction != endorsement, and that's something we seem to have collectively lost relatively recently on a cultural level.
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Oct 6, 2023 17:35
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Depiction != endorsement, and that's something we seem to have collectively lost relatively recently on a cultural level. See Always Sunny - I'm agreeing with you
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Oct 6, 2023 17:48
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Agreed that the "depiction =/= endorsement" is an issue today—esecially in having protagonists who too often act as too-unflawed audience surrogates—but it's not just the fault of changing social mores and "PC culture." Filmmakers have long abused this into outright exploitation and deferred responsibility for what they put on screen. While depiction isn't endorsement, in order to not participate in that exploitation as artists, I do think it's necessary to have that material come from a point of view that isn't endorsing it. I enjoy a lot of exploitative and problematic material, and so, too, do Doc and Jackson, clearly. In Venture Bros. it's typically bad or stupid characters who throw around slurs, sure. But especially early on, things like characters calling something "retarded" and using a pejorative "gay" are thrown around a bit thoughtlessly, with no point within the material and no commentary on the usage involved. I'm not saying they were endorsing those characters POVs, but they also weren't damning them. At no point does Monarch calling things he doesn't like "gay" ever factor into the story or our perspective on his character. It still debatably works just enough because he's a bad guy, but it's a tough watch when a new audience member doesn't trust that Doc and Jackson have the right intentions at heart. Depiction isn't endorsement, but filmmakers are responsible for what they put on screen. It's a subtle line but a distinct one, and one which Doc and Jackson clearly learned how to better tread over the years. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Oct 6, 2023 |
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Oct 6, 2023 19:54
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feedmyleg posted:I enjoy a lot of exploitation and problematic material, and so, too, do Doc and Jackson, clearly. In Venture Bros. it's typically bad or stupid characters who throw around slurs, sure. But especially early on, things like characters saying "retard" and a pejorative "gay" are often thrown around a bit thoughtlessly, with no point and no commentary involved. It was just how people talked at the time. It was a very dumb time overall. I find it easy to give a pass to both words in older media. Venture bros cuts it out way sooner than most things too if you compare the years.
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Oct 6, 2023 19:58
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Oh definitely. It was very of its moment. Just makes it hard to recommend to a friend or watch with a partner without caveats. We know to trust Doc and Jackson because we matured as the show matured. It's just a bit tough when that's not where you're coming from.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:05
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Yeah I've mentioned it before but not sure in this thread, it is crazy how often those terms were used in the 90s and 2000s. I rewatched all of Malcolm in the Middle last year and I'm not exaggerating in saying that there was a gay joke in literally every single episode for the first couple seasons.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:25
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Depiction != endorsement, and that's something we seem to have collectively lost relatively recently on a cultural level. There's a giant audience of people who thought Archie Bunker was their racist, homophobic hero. pixaal posted:See Always Sunny - I'm agreeing with you
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Oct 6, 2023 21:55
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How many other people have added kicking into throat meat into their vocabulary?
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Oct 6, 2023 23:58
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Mr. Nice! posted:How many other people have added kicking into throat meat into their vocabulary? Oddly enough the Venture Brothers line that permanently made it into my friends group vocabulary is simply the Monarchs "..... What" at the end of s2e1 when he grabs Rusty's disembodied hand.
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Oct 7, 2023 02:16
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Thing is 'depiction = endorsement' has gotten into some genuinely stupid degrees lately, usually in the context of clickbaiting outrage merchants and tumblr tween brained idiots taking poo poo wildly out of context and treating actions by obvious villains that are clearly meant to be bad things done by bad people and acting like they must be endorsements. Also goes with the particular weird and terrible brainworms of people believing that pop culture of all kinds must present the correct moral instruction for the children above all. Often goes along with people who've apparently never watched any media not primarily intended for children before.
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Oct 7, 2023 08:22
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feedmyleg posted:But especially early on, things like characters calling something "retarded" and using a pejorative "gay" are thrown around a bit thoughtlessly, with no point within the material and no commentary on the usage involved. Monarch gets called out for saying r- in season 3 though. And that was in 2008.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:28
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They stopped and don't defend the decision. Even though both of those words are pejoratives putting me down personally, I feel like that's all we should ask for. Growth and change. I don't need people to rake themselves over the coals about it. Just stop doing the harm and don't complain about how you had to stop doing harm.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Thing is 'depiction = endorsement' has gotten into some genuinely stupid degrees lately, usually in the context of clickbaiting outrage merchants and tumblr tween brained idiots taking poo poo wildly out of context and treating actions by obvious villains that are clearly meant to be bad things done by bad people and acting like they must be endorsements. Also goes with the particular weird and terrible brainworms of people believing that pop culture of all kinds must present the correct moral instruction for the children above all. 
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Oct 7, 2023 19:46
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I've dealt with 30 drat years of some flavor of "PC culture has gone too far," and I'm fuckin' tired of it. Young people overshooting the target isn't the giant systemic problem people think it is. It's a good thing. Let them be decent young people trying their best. Art doing harm is an actual problem. People talking about art doing harm is not no matter how much you find it annoying.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:54
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I don’t think anyone is advocating for it being ok to continue to do in perpetuity because it was done 20 years ago. Unfortunately we have to take media in the context of when it was made and not try to erase the fact that it was so prevalent and that’s why we had to change and continue to change for the better.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:05
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Yep. In this case, it's a show that was around when America at large had a blind spot for those particular harms. Once they were better understood, it stopped. That's how it should work.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:23
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LividLiquid posted:I've dealt with 30 drat years of some flavor of "PC culture has gone too far," and I'm fuckin' tired of it. Young people overshooting the target isn't the giant systemic problem people think it is. It's a good thing. Let them be decent young people trying their best. The worst problem (in my opinion, and I'm usually right about things I care to venture an opinion on) is people who, with their actions, demonstrate that they refuse to consider others' viewpoints. There can be no accord with those folks, that's not their goal. It makes me sad and uncomfortable that there are idiots taking the wrong message from various media but everyone else shouldn't have to pay for their stupidity. I am not the arbiter of acceptable thought; I'm not a cop at heart. To be clear, I don't disagree with you, overall.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:45
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Thing is 'depiction = endorsement' has gotten into some genuinely stupid degrees lately, usually in the context of clickbaiting outrage merchants and tumblr tween brained idiots taking poo poo wildly out of context and treating actions by obvious villains that are clearly meant to be bad things done by bad people and acting like they must be endorsements. Also goes with the particular weird and terrible brainworms of people believing that pop culture of all kinds must present the correct moral instruction for the children above all. extremely good post
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Oct 7, 2023 21:18
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theflyingexecutive posted:Monarch gets called out for saying r- in season 3 though. And that was in 2008. NO-NO WORD!
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Oct 8, 2023 04:10
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What do you want me to do? I'm a loving clown!
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Oct 8, 2023 04:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Thing is 'depiction = endorsement' has gotten into some genuinely stupid degrees lately, usually in the context of clickbaiting outrage merchants and tumblr tween brained idiots taking poo poo wildly out of context and treating actions by obvious villains that are clearly meant to be bad things done by bad people and acting like they must be endorsements. Also goes with the particular weird and terrible brainworms of people believing that pop culture of all kinds must present the correct moral instruction for the children above all. There was a post on Tumblr (of all places) that I think said it best; it shouldn't be "media property is problematic because it contains X" but rather "media property is problematic because of the way it handles X". One of those actually invites healthy discussion without throwing out the work as a whole. LividLiquid posted:Yep. In this case, it's a show that was around when America at large had a blind spot for those particular harms. Once they were better understood, it stopped. That's how it should work. 
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Oct 8, 2023 05:16
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BIG HEADLINE posted:NO-NO WORD! The fact they brought back Ventronic for the movie was a big  moment for me.
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Oct 8, 2023 14:00
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Monarch being in the section Ned was in was a fantastic bit.
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Oct 8, 2023 14:12
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LividLiquid posted:I've dealt with 30 drat years of some flavor of "PC culture has gone too far," and I'm fuckin' tired of it. Young people overshooting the target isn't the giant systemic problem people think it is. It's a good thing. Let them be decent young people trying their best. The Isobel Fall situation is an extremely strong counterexample. Paranoid readings of art, whether in search of catharsis or clout, can cause material injury when amplified by internet culture's operating modes.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:43
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DoctorWhat posted:The Isobel Fall situation is an extremely strong counterexample. Paranoid readings of art, whether in search of catharsis or clout, can cause material injury when amplified by internet culture's operating modes.
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Oct 9, 2023 20:37
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LividLiquid posted:I'm unfamiliar with that example, but even if it's even more awful than you've described, I really don't think that makes this a huge systemic problem. tl;dr a trans author who is published under their cis identity tried to come out as trans with a story that introspected on trans issues through the lens of warfare while subverting an anti-trans trope. A large number of people assumed the work was written by a straight cis man and dogpiled them on social media, leading to the author becoming suicidal and deciding that they themselves had no right to a trans identity: https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/22543858/isabel-fall-attack-helicopter Kesper North fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 21:31
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Are you really telling me people watching Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Tucker Carlson, OAN, and on the fiction end, countless copaganda shows, South Park's bullshit libertariani both sides bullshit, and every 70s and 80s comedy that played rape as a cool and good thing to do didn't do an incredible amount of damage to this country that led to like, a whole mess of tragedy and death? Because frankly, I view that as an actual problem. You can post examples all day of people who overshot the mark when speaking out against bullshit like that and the proper reaction to that poo poo is "I'm sorry you encountered a dipshit," wheras the former is more "I'm sorry our entire society has been shaped by media doing heinous and ill-advised poo poo and people thinking what they see on the teevee is real."
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Oct 9, 2023 21:50
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Whittling that situation down to "sorry you encountered a dipshit" is gross as gently caress.
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Oct 9, 2023 21:54
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Oh Snapple! posted:Whittling that situation down to "sorry you encountered a dipshit" is gross as gently caress.
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Oct 9, 2023 22:01
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Mr. Nice! posted:How many other people have added kicking into throat meat into their vocabulary? No, but "GIVE ME THE... CUTTLEFISH!" comes up surprisingly more than it should.
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Oct 9, 2023 22:02
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Sataere posted:No, but "GIVE ME THE... CUTTLEFISH!" comes up surprisingly more than it should. That, or I do both ends of the Depeche Mode exchange from Tag Sale.
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Oct 9, 2023 22:03
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LividLiquid posted:Whenever anybody asks me to do my Monarch voice, this is what I go with. Totally straight
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Oct 9, 2023 22:10
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