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Does anyone have a decent twitter list for coverage? The twitter trends are all filled with blue checked troll farms with Indian flags calling for even more genocide. Edit- terrible snipe 
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Oct 7, 2023 19:21
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Madkal posted:And here I was thinking the ultra right wing nationalist are having a rise in Europe and North America, with political parties openly attacking immigrants and using barely coded anti semitism while their supporters chant "Jews won't replace us" in the streets. Nice to now the rise of anti-Semitism and just around Xenophobia happening worldwide is just a right wing Jewish conspiracy. That's not quite the gotcha you think. It's been well documented that right wing nationalist movements support each other. Especially in Europe where Zionism helps accomplish many Europeans's desired outcome of not having to live with Jewish people on their continent. If you want an illustration of this I invite you to visit Berlin where a nationalist Israeli diaspora makes very happy (and sometimes literal) bedfellows with actual nazis (the covid conspiracy/Querdenker/QAnon movement has been an engine of this in recent years), while anti-zionist diaspora Jews and Israeli dissidents are harassed and beaten in the streets.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:21
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bad_fmr posted:It is very interesting to see the whiplash change from some of the forums going from, Ukraine should stop resisting and just take the genocidal invasion all violence is bad into, every Isrealite is a valid target and violence is just fine. The Crimean Russian colonists are the real population but the Israeli settlers are absolutely terrible.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:21
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bad_fmr posted:It is very interesting to see the whiplash change from some of the forums going from, Ukraine should stop resisting and just take the genocidal invasion all violence is bad into, every Isrealite is a valid target and violence is just fine. The Crimean Russian colonists are the real population but the Israeli settlers are absolutely terrible. Conversely it's wild to see people supporting fighting against a genocidal occupying force (Russia) to supporting a genocidal occupying force (Israel). Politics makes for hypocritical bedfellows. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 7, 2023 19:23
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:
yeah we get it, you advocate for murder, but with more steps you think are clever but in reality are just incredibly grating. fantastic (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 7, 2023 19:23
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Palestinians children deserve freedom and Israeli children deserve not be turned into opressors.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:25
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I did, you just don't like the answer, which is no. Nations don't have rights. They don't have property rights and they don't have any right to kill people in pursuit of land, whether the land once "belonged" to that nation or not. I didn't ask you if nations had rights. You disagree with my premise, fine, all of human history disagrees with you, but that's neither here nor there. I did ask you if Palestinians have a right to employ violence to reclaim property. Still wanting on a response.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:25
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Sri.Theo posted:People are talking about civilian causalities as if social media’s not filled with a video a of a stripped naked young women’s dead body being paraded around. What’s the advantage of that? You'll have to clarify what her ethnicity was before the thread can decide whether that's bad because she's a victim, or just what happens to the complicit so-called "civilians" in wartime. Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:I did ask you if Palestinians have a right to employ violence to reclaim property. Still wanting on a response. Again I'm giving you your answer, you just don't like it. Nobody has the right to employ violence to claim property, and that includes re-claiming jt. Property rights are a social construction for managing exploitation which ultimately just reflect the will of whatever ruling class most recently had power for long enough. We all have the right to fight for decent lives for ourselves and each other. Nobody has the right to fight or kill to pursue their claim on property. Otherwise someone who inherited a lot of property claims has more rights than someone who didn't inherit any. And human rights shouldn't work that way. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 19:27
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ummel posted:Does anyone have a decent twitter list for coverage? The twitter trends are all filled with blue checked troll farms with Indian flags calling for even more genocide. Yeah I was puzzled earlier by how many Indian folks on Twitter seemed to be jumping into the fray online encouraging Israel to slaughter as many Palestinians as possible. I mean, I get that Hindu nationalism often has anti-islamic elements, but the sheer volume and level of hatred took me by surprise.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:27
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Senjuro posted:It's incredibly simple. To a certain subset of people anything, and I mean anything an anti-western force does against a western interest is good. No atrocity is too great to change this fact. They'll find a way to justify it. It's only an atrocity when it's committed against the west, otherwise it's just a regrettable outcome or collateral damage, right? Main Paineframe posted:Arabs make up roughly a quarter of the Israeli electorate, but even the furthest-left of the non-Arab parties are unwilling to meaningfully cooperate with the Arab parties, and the center-left parties would rather coalition with Likud than allow an Arab party into an anti-Likud coalition. Also about a third of the population under Israeli sovereignty are Arabs who are not allowed to participate in the civil political process at all, which kind of makes a difference in outcomes. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 19:28
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Ukrainians weren’t expelled from Crimea when it was seized by Russian forces, at least not en masse like Palestinians were and are from the occupied territories, so the situation isn’t totally comparable. But in both cases the just solution would be to expel settlers who moved into those regions after key watershed dates (2014 in Crimea, 1967 in the West Bank).
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Oct 7, 2023 19:28
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adebisi lives posted:Why does the right wing administration keep winning every election? Arabs make up roughly a quarter of the Israeli electorate, but even the furthest-left of the non-Arab parties are unwilling to meaningfully cooperate with the Arab parties, and the center-left parties would rather coalition with Likud than allow an Arab party into an anti-Likud coalition. In general, the Israeli right-wing parties are able to maintain cohesion better than the left-of-center parties, which can't consistently hold together for long before their coalition collapses into infighting. And Netanyahu himself is very good at exacerbating that by promising a few members of the center-left that he'll grant them plenty of power and influence if they'll only betray their parties and side with him temporarily instead. Aside from that, it's pretty similar to what's been happening in the US: right-wing billionaires buying up media empires to influence politics, right-wing governments implicitly encouraging the growth of radical movements among the electorate, and right-wingers migrating to right-wing areas to solidify right-wing political control there.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:28
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zer0spunk posted:yeah we get it, you advocate for murder, but with more steps you think are clever but in reality are just incredibly grating. fantastic Pardon me, but I have been vociferously advocating against murder, and to misconstrue my arguments ITT is a violation of D&D's rules and I ask you to refrain from doing so in the future.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:30
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Palestinians children deserve freedom and Israeli children deserve not be turned into opressors. Israel’s history makes it pretty clear that have no interest in peaceful, equal coexistence with Palestinians. A Palestinian victory that forces Israel to negotiate is the only path I can see that actually might lead to peace
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Oct 7, 2023 19:30
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Tigey posted:Yeah I was puzzled earlier by how many Indian folks on Twitter seemed to be jumping into the fray online encouraging Israel to slaughter as many Palestinians as possible. A really good book came out this year on the history of this relationship. There's a couple of booklaunch podcasts floating around as well.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:33
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The hindutva pro-Israel thing is so prevalent online that Indian guys hornily following every attractive IDF woman on Twitter while baying for the genocide of all Palestinians developed into a bit of a meme a few years back.
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Oct 7, 2023 19:43
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The Indian government has also recently been killing foreign citizens on foreign soil for some bullshit crimes they made up, so I'd say they've learned more than a few lessons from Israel. Ethnoreligious-supremacist birds of feather, after all...
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Oct 7, 2023 19:47
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Don't know if this is "both-sidesism" but it's very true to the discussion here:quote:Contrary to what many Israelis are saying, and while the army was clearly caught completely off guard by this invasion, this is not a “unilateral” or “unprovoked” attack. The dread Israelis are feeling right now, myself included, is a sliver of what Palestinians have been feeling on a daily basis under the decades-long military regime in the West Bank, and under the siege and repeated assaults on Gaza. The responses we are hearing from many Israelis today — of people calling to “flatten Gaza,” that “these are savages, not people you can negotiate with,” “they are murdering whole families,” “there’s no room to talk with these people” — are exactly what I have heard occupied Palestinians say about Israelis countless times. I think this article lays out the reality to the full horrible extent. https://www.972mag.com/gaza-attack-context-israelis/
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Oct 7, 2023 20:20
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Willatron posted:Resistance isn't bad, I didn't say anything of the sort, but there's other ways to resist that don't involve ganking civilians and making it easy for the government to shut down any notion of a peaceful path forward. “You can resist so long as you do so in an ignorable, slow, low impact way. As a treat!” Surely there haven’t been many many many attempts at alternative avenues? Probably just a bunch of violent thugs, right?
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Oct 7, 2023 20:38
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Willatron posted:Resistance isn't bad, I didn't say anything of the sort, but there's other ways to resist that don't involve ganking civilians and making it easy for the government to shut down any notion of a peaceful path forward. I think other indigenous Canadians might also have a different take than yours about their gains at the moment in Canada.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:45
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Diqnol posted:“You can resist so long as you do so in an ignorable, slow, low impact way. As a treat!” This offensive has been anything but ignorable. Stop defending the murder and torture of civilians. Israel is about to do a lot of that itself.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:47
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Madkal posted:You think people in this thread honestly care? Why should the Jews need to escape anywhere? Surely nonviolent resistance would solve all their problems!
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Oct 7, 2023 20:55
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https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401 I wonder where these people are supposed to flee to Bibi?
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Oct 7, 2023 20:58
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https://twitter.com/ntarnopolsky/status/1710620742717415828?s=46&t=6HOSYVrXffESMo0NlyR0Lg
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Oct 7, 2023 20:59
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Great Enoch posted:That's not quite the gotcha you think. It's been well that right wing nationalist movements support each other. Especially in Europe where Zionis elps accomplish many Europeans's desired outcome of not having to live with Jewish people on their continent. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 7, 2023 21:01
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:It's only an atrocity when it's committed against the west, otherwise it's just a regrettable outcome or collateral damage, right? If you want to argue with some straw man you made up you don't need to make a post for it, just do it in your head.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:01
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Wistful of Dollars posted:https://twitter.com/ntarnopolsky/status/1710620742717415828?s=46&t=6HOSYVrXffESMo0NlyR0Lg "Ignore everything, continue to celebrate the holiday, refuse to join the army" is a much more logical and ethical approach than what the Israeli state is doing (killing hundreds of Palestinians, entrenching war for another generation). It's like how America would be in a much better place, culturally and economically and militarily, if we had ignored 9/11 altogether instead of making two wars out of it.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:01
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401 This is just a formal announcement of genocide.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:02
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Wistful of Dollars posted:https://twitter.com/ntarnopolsky/status/1710620742717415828?s=46&t=6HOSYVrXffESMo0NlyR0Lg Is this the same community who insisted on travelling to Ukraine several weeks ago? Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401 Well they can't say they weren't warned now, can they
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Oct 7, 2023 21:06
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401 Certainly every responsible Palestinian adult by now has a travel permit, so it should not be too great of an issue for a nonviolent Palestinian to travel to, for example, the West Bank or East Jerusalem and stay with family and friends, or perhaps in a hotel or one of Israel's many Airbnb rental units until this blows over. If they're not engaging in this despicable Hamas-led terrorist violence, they should have nothing to worry about (aside from perhaps their weekend plans, unfortunately!)
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Oct 7, 2023 21:07
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Civilized Fishbot posted:"Ignore everything, continue to celebrate the holiday, refuse to join the army" is a much more logical and ethical approach than what the Israeli state is doing (killing hundreds of Palestinians, entrenching war for another generation). Now imagine the argument "it's like how Gaza would be a much better place if they just ignored Israel shelling them all the time"
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Oct 7, 2023 21:13
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Madkal posted:Now imagine the argument "it's like how Gaza would be a much better place if they just ignored Israel shelling them all the time" Today that's objectively true - Gaza is going to be a much worse place tomorrow because of the attacks today. It's still a stupid thing to say because its impossible for Gazans to ignore this level of violence every day, while the rate of people lost to terror attacks in the US or Israel is comparable to other problems we basically ignore like traffic safety or public health issues.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:22
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401 I loving hate war
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Oct 7, 2023 21:34
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Main Paineframe posted:I suspect the goal is to make a big show of shoving their thumbs in Israel's eye to placate the major protests that have been raging in the Gaza Strip in the last few weeks (as well as Israel bombing Gaza in retaliation for protests near the border fence). Economic conditions in Gaza are extremely bad, and economic shifts have disrupted some of the few arrangements Hamas had managed to put together, leading to Hamas being unable to pay Gaza's civil service workers, and the border crossings were only just starting to reopen after being closed for weeks. There were reportedly deescalation talks going on, but Hamas was demanding real concessions while Israel was (as usual) perfectly fine with the status quo. This makes much more sense over the normalization of Israeli-Saudi relations. The situation on the ground changed and that really got people upset opposed to governments doing diplomacy. Is anyone able to tell me what a occupation would look like and why those didn't work out in the past? ummel posted:Does anyone have a decent twitter list for coverage? The twitter trends are all filled with blue checked troll farms with Indian flags calling for even more genocide. Same here. I get this is super crazy messed up but goddamn so many accounts I follow are losing it. Every discussion is something about "Don't you know their occupied!?!?" or just terrible videos of killings. I know little of Middle East history and I am desperately looking for something more level headed. I wonder where Isreali democracy reforms head from here... Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 21:35
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Certainly every responsible Palestinian adult by now has a travel permit, so it should not be too great of an issue for a nonviolent Palestinian to travel to, for example, the West Bank or East Jerusalem and stay with family and friends, or perhaps in a hotel or one of Israel's many Airbnb rental units until this blows over. If they're not engaging in this despicable Hamas-led terrorist violence, they should have nothing to worry about (aside from perhaps their weekend plans, unfortunately!) get better material imho, low effort LARPing as the world's dumbest centrist stopped being funny after the first post, this is not your best shitposting work and just comes off as getting cheap laughs in at the horrifying genocide of the Palestinian people at the hands of a fascist ethnostate obviously, the Palestinian genocide is not something that can be stopped by peaceful protest, everyone reading this thread knows that the "Palestinians must only peacefully protest against the fascist ethnostate genociding them or i can't support them anymore" viewpoint is a stupid and bad one to view things through and nobody in here is advocating for that viewpoint, so why bother with this LARPing nonsense? it won't kill you to discuss things seriously in debate and discussion, i'm gonna get a sixer for this one but i hope you take this to heart and consider actually engaging with the discussion in a positive way instead of continuing to make fun of this hypothetical centrist strawman you seem to think is posting here
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Oct 7, 2023 21:37
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From the river to the sea, really.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:38
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Today that's objectively true - Gaza is going to be a much worse place tomorrow because of the attacks today. It's easy to say "more people die in car accidents than terror attacks", but terror attacks have many side effects. From the fear of leaving your house to the fear of cowering from a gunman that never leaves your head (from experience), these are quantifiable things that aren't in the death toll. True in both sides in this case. Obviously, policians love an issue they can shoot at. I think I'm going to stop reading this thread and social media in general. I know this isn't very D&D of me but I just can't deal with reading all of this cooly while being worried about most of my family which lives in Israel or my many friends there. Horror stories I'm reading about won't leave my head. You guys knock yourselves out though
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Oct 7, 2023 21:52
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kiminewt posted:It's easy to say "more people die in car accidents than terror attacks", but terror attacks have many side effects. From the fear of leaving your house to the fear of cowering from a gunman that never leaves your head (from experience), these are quantifiable things that aren't in the death toll. True in both sides in this case. Obviously, policians love an issue they can shoot at. I agree with all of paragraph 1 and sympathize with all of paragraph 2.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:53
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Civilized Fishbot posted:"Ignore everything, continue to celebrate the holiday, refuse to join the army" is a much more logical and ethical approach than what the Israeli state is doing (killing hundreds of Palestinians, entrenching war for another generation). It's not "refuse to join" the army. It's "we're shouldn't have to serve in the army". The ultra-orthodox have made their opinion of their fellow Israelis very clear.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:56
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Fighting Trousers posted:It's not "refuse to join" the army. It's "we're shouldn't have to serve in the army". The ultra-orthodox have made their opinion of their fellow Israelis very clear. Do you need to serve in the armed forces of a nation to have an opinion about ones fellow country folk?
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Oct 7, 2023 22:05
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